[WWI] Beersheba Aircraft
Mike Vice
jmikl2957 at comcast.net
Tue Jan 5 12:43:41 EST 2010
The Germans/Turks were definitely using Rumpler C.Is in theater and, most
likely by this date, AEG C.IVs. I don't know about Albatros two-seaters,
but would be surprised if there weren't a couple around.
-----Original Message-----
From: wwi-bounces at wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi-bounces at wwi-models.org] On
Behalf Of wwi-request at wwi-models.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:00 AM
To: wwi at wwi-models.org
Subject: WWI Digest, Vol 74, Issue 5
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Today's Topics:
1. Sale Alert! (Mike Vice)
2. Re: Sale Alert! (orc51o at gmail.com)
3. Re: Sale Alert! (Brad & Merville)
4. Re: Sale Alert! (coyotemagic at comcast.net)
5. Re: It's 2010 already! (Robert Karr)
6. Tropical Albatros DVa with twin radiators (dave fleming)
7. Re: Tropical Albatros DVa with twin radiators
(pfalzdvii at comcast.net)
8. Beersheba aircraft (Shane Weier)
9. Re: Beersheba aircraft (Cactusbird39 at aol.com)
10. Re: Beersheba aircraft (Shane Weier)
11. Re: Beersheba aircraft (Shane Weier)
12. Re: Beersheba aircraft (Shane Weier)
13. Re: Beersheba aircraft (Diego Fernetti)
14. Re: Beersheba aircraft (dave fleming)
15. Re: Beersheba aircraft (Diego Fernetti)
16. Re: It's 2010 already! (Diego Fernetti)
17. Re: Beersheba aircraft (Knut Erik Hagen)
18. Re: Beersheba aircraft (nick hamer)
19. Re: Beersheba aircraft (Diego Fernetti)
20. Re: Beersheba aircraft (Knut Erik Hagen)
21. Re: Beersheba aircraft (Diego Fernetti)
22. Re: Beersheba aircraft (nick hamer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:14:23 -0800
From: "Mike Vice" <jmikl2957 at comcast.net>
To: <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: [WWI] Sale Alert!
Message-ID: <000001ca8d69$bf342ab0$3d9c8010$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I received my Squadron flyer over the weekend and the Mirage Halberstadt is
on sale for 40% off! I ordered this and two 40%-discounted Special Hobby
kits, a Phoenix D.I and the black-and-white tailed Fokker D.II, for only
$101 and change, with free shipping provided. For all of you "1/72 is the
only scale I deign build,"-types, see what you're missing?
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 18:25:21 +0000
From: orc51o at gmail.com
To: "World War I Modeling Mailing List" <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Sale Alert!
Message-ID:
<900721573-1262629526-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1102391194- at b
da132.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
This Halberstadt is my favorite 1/48 kit. It is extremely complete. The
instruction booklet is excellent. Its a very comprehensive model.
I highly recommend it.
Good luck!
Brent
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Mike Vice" <jmikl2957 at comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:14:23
To: <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: [WWI] Sale Alert!
I received my Squadron flyer over the weekend and the Mirage Halberstadt is
on sale for 40% off! I ordered this and two 40%-discounted Special Hobby
kits, a Phoenix D.I and the black-and-white tailed Fokker D.II, for only
$101 and change, with free shipping provided. For all of you "1/72 is the
only scale I deign build,"-types, see what you're missing?
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:56:36 -0500
From: "Brad & Merville" <BigglesRFC at sympatico.ca>
To: "World War I Modeling Mailing List" <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Sale Alert!
Message-ID: <0A67BFDAFF2D4EB081A0771A3F941078 at brad>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks for the heads up Mike. Just ordered the Halby, a 1/32 SPAD VII and
another Roden BE2 (24.00!)
Cheers
Brad
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Vice
To: wwi at wwi-models.org
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:14 PM
Subject: [WWI] Sale Alert!
I received my Squadron flyer over the weekend and the Mirage Halberstadt
is on sale for 40% off! I ordered this and two 40%-discounted Special Hobby
kits, a Phoenix D.I and the black-and-white tailed Fokker D.II, for only
$101 and change, with free shipping provided. For all of you "1/72 is the
only scale I deign build,"-types, see what you're missing?
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:16:07 +0000 (UTC)
From: coyotemagic at comcast.net
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Sale Alert!
Message-ID:
<610365385.4845181262643367097.JavaMail.root at sz0108a.emeryville.ca.mail.comc
ast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Mike,
Brent's right.? I build exclusively 1/48, as you know, and the Mirage
Halberstadt is without a doubt the best kit I have.? The engine alone is
phenomenal .? Eighteen pieces, excluding exhaust ( and you 3 options with
that).? As I was reading your email, my doorbell rang.? It was the mail man
delivering mine.? I had ordered it a few weeks ago from Jadar .? $34
something plus shipping, so it came out to be about the same as Squadron's
sale price, so if anyone misses the sale...
Have fun with it!? How's the Hannover going??
See you at Petaluma ,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Vice" <jmikl2957 at comcast.net>
To: wwi @ wwi -models.org
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2010 10:14:23 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [WWI] Sale Alert!
I received my Squadron flyer over the weekend and the Mirage Halberstadt is
on sale for 40% off!? I ordered this and two 40%-discounted Special Hobby
kits, a Phoenix D.I and the black-and-white tailed Fokker D.II, for only
$101 and change, with free shipping provided.? For all of you "1/72 is the
only scale I deign build,"-types, see what you're missing?
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:25:18 -0800
From: "Robert Karr" <karrart at karrart.com>
To: "World War I Modeling Mailing List" <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] It's 2010 already!
Message-ID: <019501ca8d8c$cd6ed0d0$1601a8c0 at Oldfaithful>
<<
I'd dare say you need to move to a better neighborhood, Robert!
>>
You're probably right although it's shame to leave such an enthusiastic
bunch of pyromaniacs...including one who bought an incredibly expensive
original painting of an F*190 and who's first reaction upon seeing one the
large Camel models was " Those rotary engines were really weird".
RK......more racers- the party's over
new New NEW:
http://www.karrart.com/aviationartblog/
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:26:38 +0000
From: dave fleming <dave.fleming2 at dial.pipex.com>
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: [WWI] Tropical Albatros DVa with twin radiators
Message-ID: <1262651198.4b42873e4fd3c at netmail.pipex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Did anyone do a twin-radiatored Albatros wing or detail set in 1/72 or
1/48th?
Dave
-------------------------------------------------
Visit Pipex Business: The homepage for UK Small Businesses
Go to http://www.pipex.co.uk/business-services
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:45:29 +0000 (UTC)
From: pfalzdvii at comcast.net
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Tropical Albatros DVa with twin radiators
Message-ID:
<399727691.4490931262663129539.JavaMail.root at sz0077a.emeryville.ca.mail.comc
ast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The Eduard Detail set for the D.III in 1/48 has all the radiator
combinations (8 different radiators) possible for the D.III or the D.V,
really, including the dual radiator set up. I don't remember how many
radiators in the Part 1/72 sets, but? there may be two in those as well,.
Tha t's for the single seats,sadly the large radiators for the two holers,
as of this minute, I don't know of any made at all, I had to 'scratch' the
few I've built. HTH
Merrill
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave fleming" <dave.fleming2 at dial.pipex.com>
To: "World War I Modeling Mailing List" <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2010 6:26:38 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [WWI] Tropical Albatros DVa with twin radiators
Did anyone do a twin-radiatored Albatros wing or detail set in 1/72 or
1/48th?
Dave
-------------------------------------------------
Visit Pipex Business: The homepage for UK Small Businesses
Go to http://www.pipex.co.uk/business-services
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:49:04 +1000
From: Shane Weier <bristolf2b at hotmail.com>
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <SNT120-W2721E4B129F124C7C8D4EF84730 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi all
'mings question about tropicalised Albatrosses reminded me of something.
A coupl eof nights ago a workmate of mine SMS'ed me in the middle of the
blasted night to ask if there were really aircraft involved in the fight at
Beersheba. He'd been watching a movie, presumably "The Lighthorsemen"
Even half asleep I could give him the answer to that (and a few unasked for
comments on his parentage for waking me)
We know that an aircraft bombed the Australian Light Horse after the charge,
that a single bomb was dropped in the middle of a light horse ambulance unit
adorned with the usuall red on white crosses, and killed three of the
ambulance bearers. They and Brigadier Maygar VC are supposedly the four
aircraft casualties of the 32 Australian deaths in the Beersheba assault.
The *eyewitness* accounts of the day call the plane a "Taube", but then that
was the same name given by most diggers in that theatre for every enemy
aircraft
Considering that this was 31 October 1917 it seems unlikely to me - it's
just a couple of months before 1AFC were flying Bristol Fighters in the same
area
Do we know what aircraft were actually available to the Germans/Turks in
that theatre in that period? Since I'm not able to check my books at the
moment I might be able to guess by looking through the appropriate official
history the types that OUR aircraft were encountering but I'm not all that
confident that the pilots get the types right every time!
Shane
.---- - --- ....- ---.. .-. ..- .-.. . ... .-.-.-
My Strine is a Toad in Disguise
Quidvis recte factum,
quamvis humile, praeclarum
.---- - --- ....- ---.. .-. ..- .-.. . ... .-.-.-
_________________________________________________________________
Looking for a great date? Meet singles at ninemsn dating
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:35:20 EST
From: Cactusbird39 at aol.com
To: wwi at wwi-models.org
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <c87.61e3ffe6.38742998 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In a message dated 1/4/2010 21:49:11 US Mountain Standard Time, brist
olf2b at hotmail.com writes:
Hi all
'mings question about tropicalised Albatrosses reminded me of something.
A coupl eof nights ago a workmate of mine SMS'ed me in the middle of the
blasted night to ask if there were really aircraft involved in the fight at
Beersheba. He'd been watching a movie, presumably "The Lighthorsemen"
Even half asleep I could give him the answer to that (and a few unasked
for comments on his parentage for waking me)
We know that an aircraft bombed the Australian Light Horse after the
charge, that a single bomb was dropped in the middle of a light horse
ambulance
unit adorned with the usuall red on white crosses, and killed three of the
ambulance bearers. They and Brigadier Maygar VC are supposedly the four
aircraft casualties of the 32 Australian deaths in the Beersheba assault.
The *eyewitness* accounts of the day call the plane a "Taube", but then
that was the same name given by most diggers in that theatre for every
enemy
aircraft
Considering that this was 31 October 1917 it seems unlikely to me - it's
just a couple of months before 1AFC were flying Bristol Fighters in the
same
area
Do we know what aircraft were actually available to the Germans/Turks in
that theatre in that period? Since I'm not able to check my books at the
moment I might be able to guess by looking through the appropriate official
history the types that OUR aircraft were encountering but I'm not all that
confident that the pilots get the types right every time!
Shane
.---- - --- ....- ---.. .-. ..- .-.. . ... .-.-.-
My Strine is a Toad in Disguise
Quidvis recte factum,
quamvis humile, praeclarum
.---- - --- ....- ---.. .-. ..- .-.. . ... .-.-.-
Hello Bacvk:
Sopme years ago, I was lucky enough to walk through the WWI cemetary at
Beersheva. I remember seeing a number of airmen's graves and can only
surmise that there must have been aircraft there. Does that help at all?
Best
regards,
Dave Moore
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:42:33 +1000
From: Shane Weier <bristolf2b at hotmail.com>
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <SNT120-W323E560FE019620DA7A3CF84730 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dave says
>Some years ago, I was lucky enough to walk through the WWI cemetary at
Beersheva.
>I remember seeing a number of airmen's graves and can only
surmise that there must
>have been aircraft there. Does that help at
all?
Not really. I already KNOW that there were aircraft there - at least one
German which bombed an ambulance troop
I'm only wondering what aircraft types were used by the Germans at that
time, in that area.
There could well be RAF or AFC graves from later in the war among the 1241
buried there. There should be none earlier of course, unless they were
reinterred from elsewhere.
Shane
.---- - --- ....- ---.. .-. ..- .-.. . ... .-.-.-
My Strine is a Toad in Disguise
Quidvis recte factum,
quamvis humile, praeclarum
.---- - --- ....- ---.. .-. ..- .-.. . ... .-.-.-
_________________________________________________________________
A world FIRST in property search has arrived! Check out Domain Radar NOW!
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:48:31 +1000
From: Shane Weier <bristolf2b at hotmail.com>
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <SNT120-W27E96604A8DACD5CB4040084730 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dave
>Not really. I already KNOW that there were aircraft there - at least one
German which
>bombed an ambulance troop
Sorry, that was a bit abrupt even for the list grump. Thanks for taking the
time to respond AND I hope you realise that I'm insanely jealous that you've
actually been there!
Shane
.---- - --- ....- ---.. .-. ..- .-.. . ... .-.-.-
My Strine is a Toad in Disguise
Quidvis recte factum,
quamvis humile, praeclarum
.---- - --- ....- ---.. .-. ..- .-.. . ... .-.-.-
_________________________________________________________________
Looking for a great date? Meet singles at ninemsn dating
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/
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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:46:38 +1000
From: Shane Weier <bristolf2b at hotmail.com>
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <SNT120-W2572882733530D83829A5984730 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Talking to myself here, but someone else might be interested...
>The *eyewitness* accounts of the day call the plane a "Taube", but then
that was the >same name given by most diggers in that theatre for every
enemy aircraft
>Considering that this was 31 October 1917 it seems unlikely to me -
it's just a couple of >months before 1AFC were flying Bristol Fighters
in the same area
Home now, and I have access to my books. Vol VIII of the Australian Official
History mentions 111 RFC as already having Bristol F.2b aircraft in mid
October, and records an Albatros "Scout" as having been shot down in LH
lines only slightly damaged. 1AFC repaired and flew it, which makes the
identification fairly certain.
By the day of the battle 1AFC was flying BE12e and RE-8 aircraft pending
arrival of their Biffs and having trouble with Albatros Scouts again -
though 111 RFC was doing good business against them to the point that von
Kressenstein was appealing for more and better aircraft.
So - Albatrosses, probabably D.III . The only other type mentioned in my
books covering this period are AEG two seaters (uncertain type - I'm sure
that my Datafiles will tell me which though). They're more than likely to be
the bombing aircraft then.
All of which means I can probably assume that the peaceful dove has been
smeared unfairly.
I'm still very interested to hear of any hard evidence of the actual German
types still on strength in late October 1917 if anyone can point me in the
proper direction.
Shane
.---- - --- ....- ---.. .-. ..- .-.. . ... .-.-.-
My Strine is a Toad in Disguise
Quidvis recte factum,
quamvis humile, praeclarum
.---- - --- ....- ---.. .-. ..- .-.. . ... .-.-.-
_________________________________________________________________
Use Messenger in your Hotmail inbox Find out how
http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/hotmail/article/823454/web-im-for-hotmail-
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:24:48 -0300
From: "Diego Fernetti" <dfernet0 at rosario.gov.ar>
To: "World War I Modeling Mailing List" <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <7831EB5FD457417AA6B24584A4F7B784 at coms114>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
S!
> Talking to myself here, but someone else might be interested...
Sooner or later this day was gonna arrive...
> So - Albatrosses, probabably D.III . The only other type mentioned in my
> books covering this period are AEG two seaters
> (uncertain type - I'm sure that my Datafiles will tell me which though).
> They're more than likely to be the bombing aircraft then.
> All of which means I can probably assume that the peaceful dove has been
> smeared unfairly.
> I'm still very interested to hear of any hard evidence of the actual
> German types still on strength in late October 1917 if anyone can point me
> in the proper direction.
IUnderdaad. I recall having a few articles based on the memories of certain
Ltn. Serno from the Imperial German Air Service, attached to the Ottoman
Army for most of the campaign, and also a potted history of 1AFC. From what
I recall, they had Halberstadts D types, Albatros D.IIs and later D.Vs,
perhaps a few Roland D.IIs remnant from Macedonia and some LVG two seaters
(most probably C.Vs), and the turks had some ancient types from 1914 as well
(like early Aviatiks).
I can locate the article and see what was around there in 1917. They were
always troubled by the lack of proper maintenance facilities, spare parts
and the usual sandstorms which treated the air bases badly. But they had a
nifty railraod flatcar equipped with a Mercedes engine and propeller that
they used to go to and fro some town. That was cool, especially behind the
propeller.
D.
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:32:08 +0000
From: dave fleming <dave.fleming2 at dial.pipex.com>
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <1262691128.4b4323384d57a at netmail.pipex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Quoting Shane Weier <bristolf2b at hotmail.com>:
>
> Talking to myself here, but someone else might be interested...
>
> >The *eyewitness* accounts of the day call the plane a "Taube", but then
> that was the >same name given by most diggers in that theatre for every
> enemy aircraft
>
>
>
> >Considering that this was 31 October 1917 it seems unlikely to me -
> it's just a couple of >months before 1AFC were flying Bristol Fighters
> in the same area
>
> Home now, and I have access to my books. Vol VIII of the Australian
Official
> History mentions 111 RFC as already having Bristol F.2b aircraft in mid
> October, and records an Albatros "Scout" as having been shot down in LH
lines
> only slightly damaged. 1AFC repaired and flew it, which makes the
> identification fairly certain.
>
D.III D636/17 then.
Interestingly, the DVa(Trop) I'm interested in was also captured (and flown)
by 111RFC, but appears in one photo
with an Aussie.
There were a couple of DVs captured, but none seem to match exactly the one
in RFC markings.
Dave
-------------------------------------------------
Visit Pipex Business: The homepage for UK Small Businesses
Go to http://www.pipex.co.uk/business-services
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:40:28 -0300
From: "Diego Fernetti" <dfernet0 at rosario.gov.ar>
To: "World War I Modeling Mailing List" <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <767D2CBB564F42DBB7AA21E044EF8ACA at coms114>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
D!
> D.III D636/17 then.
> Interestingly, the DVa(Trop) I'm interested in was also captured (and
> flown) by 111RFC, but appears in one photo
> with an Aussie.
It's that picture with Gen. Allenby poses in front of it?
> There were a couple of DVs captured, but none seem to match exactly the
> one in RFC markings.
What a disorganized war!
D.
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:04:04 -0300
From: "Diego Fernetti" <dfernet0 at rosario.gov.ar>
To: "World War I Modeling Mailing List" <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] It's 2010 already!
Message-ID: <51468042A909427584D523BEF8982CBF at coms114>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
reply-type=response
Robert!
> You're probably right although it's shame to leave such an enthusiastic
> bunch of pyromaniacs...
That would be certainly a pity. Enthusiast pyromaniacs are so hard to find
these days! Now everyone is into paranoia or multiple personality
disorders...
> including one who bought an incredibly expensive original painting of an
> F*190 and who's first reaction upon seeing one the large Camel models was
> " Those rotary engines were really weird".
A valuable neighbor indeed!
D.
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:52:34 +0100
From: Knut Erik Hagen <knut.erik.hagen at gmail.com>
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID:
<4ad5b6b51001050752l2930023cl7ad71c2c7c1b532e at mail.gmail.com>
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Hei,
Here is an overview of Turkish/German aircraft that were operational in late
October 1917,
source is a book written by Ole Nikolajsen
http://www.ole-nikolajsen.com/TURKISH%20AVIATION%202004.htm
Albatros B I - mostly used as trainers at the time
Rumpler C.I - in use in the area at the time and the top wing has the same
swept trailing edge as the Taube.
Albatros C.III - still in use at the time, most numerous two seater with the
Turkish units.
AEG C.IV - not delivered to Turkish units untill November 1917, in use with
the German units from September.
So my guess would be a Rumpler C.I based on availability and wing shape.
>There were a couple of DVs captured, but none seem to match exactly the one
in RFC markings.
7416/17 March 18 to JASTA 1F Sep18 captured by British at Afoule airfield.
Eders
Knut Erik
On 1/5/10, Shane Weier <bristolf2b at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> 'mings question about tropicalised Albatrosses reminded me of something.
>
> A coupl eof nights ago a workmate of mine SMS'ed me in the middle of the
> blasted night to ask if there were really aircraft involved in the fight
at
> Beersheba. He'd been watching a movie, presumably "The Lighthorsemen"
>
> Even half asleep I could give him the answer to that (and a few unasked
for
> comments on his parentage for waking me)
>
> We know that an aircraft bombed the Australian Light Horse after the
> charge, that a single bomb was dropped in the middle of a light horse
> ambulance unit adorned with the usuall red on white crosses, and killed
> three of the ambulance bearers. They and Brigadier Maygar VC are
supposedly
> the four aircraft casualties of the 32 Australian deaths in the Beersheba
> assault.
>
> The *eyewitness* accounts of the day call the plane a "Taube", but then
> that was the same name given by most diggers in that theatre for every
enemy
> aircraft
>
> Considering that this was 31 October 1917 it seems unlikely to me - it's
> just a couple of months before 1AFC were flying Bristol Fighters in the
same
> area
>
> Do we know what aircraft were actually available to the Germans/Turks in
> that theatre in that period? Since I'm not able to check my books at the
> moment I might be able to guess by looking through the appropriate
official
> history the types that OUR aircraft were encountering but I'm not all that
> confident that the pilots get the types right every time!
>
> Shane
>
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:18:31 +0000
From: nick hamer <hamerthehorrible at live.co.uk>
To: <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <COL123-W57B5E57A9C5C49C93CAF8DF1730 at phx.gbl>
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Diego said- '' But they had a nifty railroad flatcar equipped with a
Mercedes engine and propeller that they used to go to and from some town . .
'' Are there any pictures of that thing? Sounds like a bit of a Heath Von
Robinson contraption that would make a great diorama, mefinks. Don't mean to
digress from Shane's original question but that description really conjures
up a vivid picture in my tiny mind.
Nick.
> From: dfernet0 at rosario.gov.ar
> To: wwi at wwi-models.org
> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:24:48 -0300
> Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
>
> S!
> > Talking to myself here, but someone else might be interested...
>
> Sooner or later this day was gonna arrive...
>
> > So - Albatrosses, probabably D.III . The only other type mentioned in my
> > books covering this period are AEG two seaters
> > (uncertain type - I'm sure that my Datafiles will tell me which though).
> > They're more than likely to be the bombing aircraft then.
> > All of which means I can probably assume that the peaceful dove has been
> > smeared unfairly.
> > I'm still very interested to hear of any hard evidence of the actual
> > German types still on strength in late October 1917 if anyone can point
me
> > in the proper direction.
>
> IUnderdaad. I recall having a few articles based on the memories of
certain
> Ltn. Serno from the Imperial German Air Service, attached to the Ottoman
> Army for most of the campaign, and also a potted history of 1AFC. From
what
> I recall, they had Halberstadts D types, Albatros D.IIs and later D.Vs,
> perhaps a few Roland D.IIs remnant from Macedonia and some LVG two seaters
> (most probably C.Vs), and the turks had some ancient types from 1914 as
well
> (like early Aviatiks).
> I can locate the article and see what was around there in 1917. They were
> always troubled by the lack of proper maintenance facilities, spare parts
> and the usual sandstorms which treated the air bases badly. But they had a
> nifty railraod flatcar equipped with a Mercedes engine and propeller that
> they used to go to and fro some town. That was cool, especially behind the
> propeller.
> D.
>
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:25:35 -0300
From: "Diego Fernetti" <dfernet0 at rosario.gov.ar>
To: "World War I Modeling Mailing List" <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <3BFCA0D72BFD46E7BBCAEF866AD5202F at coms114>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Nick!
Yes, there is. It's a simple threstle structure perched atop the flatcar,
and Jerries sitting all around it. Unfortunately my scanner died, but
perhaps some picture library online can have this picture. I'll search the
AWM
D.
----- Original Message -----
From: nick hamer
To: wwi at wwi-models.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Diego said- '' But they had a nifty railroad flatcar equipped with a
Mercedes engine and propeller that they used to go to and from some town . .
'' Are there any pictures of that thing? Sounds like a bit of a Heath Von
Robinson contraption that would make a great diorama, mefinks. Don't mean to
digress from Shane's original question but that description really conjures
up a vivid picture in my tiny mind.
Nick.
> From: dfernet0 at rosario.gov.ar
> To: wwi at wwi-models.org
> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:24:48 -0300
> Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
>
> S!
> > Talking to myself here, but someone else might be interested...
>
> Sooner or later this day was gonna arrive...
>
> > So - Albatrosses, probabably D.III . The only other type mentioned in
my
> > books covering this period are AEG two seaters
> > (uncertain type - I'm sure that my Datafiles will tell me which
though).
> > They're more than likely to be the bombing aircraft then.
> > All of which means I can probably assume that the peaceful dove has
been
> > smeared unfairly.
> > I'm still very interested to hear of any hard evidence of the actual
> > German types still on strength in late October 1917 if anyone can
point me
> > in the proper direction.
>
> IUnderdaad. I recall having a few articles based on the memories of
certain
> Ltn. Serno from the Imperial German Air Service, attached to the Ottoman
> Army for most of the campaign, and also a potted history of 1AFC. >From
what
> I recall, they had Halberstadts D types, Albatros D.IIs and later D.Vs,
> perhaps a few Roland D.IIs remnant from Macedonia and some LVG two
seaters
> (most probably C.Vs), and the turks had some ancient types from 1914 as
well
> (like early Aviatiks).
> I can locate the article and see what was around there in 1917. They
were
> always troubled by the lack of proper maintenance facilities, spare
parts
> and the usual sandstorms which treated the air bases badly. But they had
a
> nifty railraod flatcar equipped with a Mercedes engine and propeller
that
> they used to go to and fro some town. That was cool, especially behind
the
> propeller.
> D.
>
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both.
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:26:27 +0100
From: Knut Erik Hagen <knut.erik.hagen at gmail.com>
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID:
<4ad5b6b51001050826j409e5e29m7661f8080ac8fce9 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hei,
>From the same source.
Eders
Knut Erik
On 1/5/10, nick hamer <hamerthehorrible at live.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Diego said- '' But they had a nifty railroad flatcar equipped with a
> Mercedes engine and propeller that they used to go to and from some town .
.
> '' Are there any pictures of that thing? Sounds like a bit of a Heath Von
> Robinson contraption that would make a great diorama, mefinks. Don't mean
to
> digress from Shane's original question but that description really
conjures
> up a vivid picture in my tiny mind.
>
> Nick.
>
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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:40:40 -0300
From: "Diego Fernetti" <dfernet0 at rosario.gov.ar>
To: "World War I Modeling Mailing List" <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <D45278A40EBB42BEA42F547A29331749 at coms114>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
There you have!
D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Knut Erik Hagen
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Hei,
From the same source.
Eders
Knut Erik
On 1/5/10, nick hamer <hamerthehorrible at live.co.uk> wrote:
Diego said- '' But they had a nifty railroad flatcar equipped with a
Mercedes engine and propeller that they used to go to and from some town . .
'' Are there any pictures of that thing? Sounds like a bit of a Heath Von
Robinson contraption that would make a great diorama, mefinks. Don't mean to
digress from Shane's original question but that description really conjures
up a vivid picture in my tiny mind.
Nick.
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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:53:43 +0000
From: nick hamer <hamerthehorrible at live.co.uk>
To: <wwi at wwi-models.org>
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Message-ID: <COL123-W373C705EBE8CD881F44BC9F1730 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Diego, Knut, Hi, guys, thanks for that information and the picture. That is
a really great image. The mechanics who rigged that up deserved a case of
Schnapps. It's funny I had an image of the car driving along some dusty
track a la Lawrence of Arabia with clouds of dust swirled around it and the
Sun beating down. Those fellas look cold, though. I guess The Winters there
are pretty harsh, too. I still think a great diorama/vignette or whatever is
there waiting to happen. That is a great picture, gets me thinking of the
possibilities. Thanks for sharing it.
Nick.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:26:27 +0100
From: knut.erik.hagen at gmail.com
To: wwi at wwi-models.org
Subject: Re: [WWI] Beersheba aircraft
Hei,
>From the same source.
Eders
Knut Erik
On 1/5/10, nick hamer <hamerthehorrible at live.co.uk> wrote:
Diego said- '' But they had a nifty railroad flatcar equipped with a
Mercedes engine and propeller that they used to go to and from some town . .
'' Are there any pictures of that thing? Sounds like a bit of a Heath Von
Robinson contraption that would make a great diorama, mefinks. Don't mean to
digress from Shane's original question but that description really conjures
up a vivid picture in my tiny mind.
Nick.
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