[WWI] Scale black

Andy Bannister a.bann at ntlworld.com
Mon Nov 20 05:54:02 EST 2006 

Yep, it all boils down to a matter of taste. I have read the Woodman quote
many times as well as Ian huntley's articles on them. Harry Woodman is of
course ten times (at least) the modeller I will ever be but I totally
disagree on his use of the artist analogy regarding scale colour for reasons
I mentioned earlier. Mr. Huntley goes as far as actually drawing up charts
for how much you should change your paint for each different scale. This, to
me, is completely wrong. If scale colour is used it should be subtle as you
say and there should be no "rules" to it. Perhaps I don't have the
imagination required for scale colour.  My understanding of it is that it is
supposed to reflect the effects of distance but all I see when I look at a
model finished in scale colours is a model with faded paint parked 12 inches
from my nose because my brain refuses to believe I am looking at the real
thing parked however many feet away. I am looking at a miniature
representation of the real thing and I am quite happy to think of it that
way.
Again, it's a matter of personal taste. I think many modellers when they
latch on to a modelling style go completely overboard with it and they end
up with an aircraft so faded that looks like it has sat in the Sahara Desert
for 50 years. It's the same with the pre-shaded panel lines fad. The idea of
subtlety is completely lost on some people and their model will have thick
black criss-crossing lines sprayed all over it. I notice this has also
transcended the airliner world, judging by the Virgin Airlines 747 with
pre-shading(and very glossy paint!) that won gold at the UK Nats on the
weekend.
And speaking of the latter, I was completely underwhelmed by the amount of
ot subjects this year. Overall attendance seemed down as well, which was
actually a good thing because there weren't huge crowds around everything
like in previous years, but I do think that exorbitant entry fee of 9 quid
is doing more harm than good. 
Andy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi-bounces at wwi-models.org 
> [mailto:wwi-bounces at wwi-models.org] On Behalf Of Michael Kendix
> Sent: 19 November 2006 02:39
> To: wwi at wwi-models.org
> Subject: Re: [WWI] Scale black
> 
> 
> Andy:
> 
> Of course, it's your model to do as you please - I'm not 
> saying what your 
> models look like.
> 
> Please look at the Woodman quote.  It's not about only 
> "Finish" but scale 
> effect, which has to do with both colour and gloss-matte.
> 
> Nor do I always practice what I preach: one problem if you 
> only have black 
> and white cross decals is that if you make the aeroplane 
> scale black, that 
> "Will" look odd.
> 
> Another effect that I also like to try and like to see is to 
> vary the shade. 
>   Do some parts of the surface a slightly different colour. 
> Of course, as 
> with anything this can be overdone.
> 
> Michael
> 
> >From: "Andy Bannister" <a.bann at ntlworld.com>
> >Reply-To: World War I Modeling Mailing List <wwi at wwi-models.org>
> >To: "'World War I Modeling Mailing List'" <wwi at wwi-models.org>
> >Subject: Re: [WWI] Scale black
> >Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 22:43:11 -0000
> >
> >Well, I beg to differ Michael. I use black straight out of 
> the tin on 
> >my models and I'm quite happy with the way they look and 
> I've yet to be 
> >accused of building toys. I wasn't suggesting the black had to be 
> >gloss, nor did I say that the scale colour crowd only used gull gray.
> >I do, however, agree with you about the overly shiny car & 
> airliner models.
> >Yes, I admire the deep flawless finishes some guys can get 
> after hours of
> >polishing but they look totally unrealistic. But your 
> argument is all about
> >the finish and has nothing to do with toning down colour. 
> Your scale black
> >model would be just as unrealistic with an excessively 
> glossy finish as 
> >mine
> >would with straight black and an overly glossy finish.
> >Andy
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: wwi-bounces at wwi-models.org 
> [mailto:wwi-bounces at wwi-models.org] 
> > > On Behalf Of Michael Kendix
> > > Sent: 18 November 2006 19:24
> > > To: wwi at wwi-models.org
> > > Subject: Re: [WWI] Scale black
> > >
> > >
> > > Andy:)
> > >
> > > No problem. Paint your scale model JPS gloss black - 
> it'll look like 
> > > a frigging shiny gloss black toy that just rolled out of the
> > > flippin' Dinky
> > > factory.
> > >
> > > Same thing goes for black crosses on a WW1 aeroplane: I 
> wish I could 
> > > do them in off-black but cannot figure out how to do a nice mask.
> > >
> > > I am not suggesting these things be painted gull grey - 
> just add a 
> > > tiny touch of grey to the black mix. If it's done correctly it
> > > won't be obvious
> > > that you've done it. If you paint it straight black, it will
> > > be obvious
> > > because it'll look like a toy.
> > >
> > > Yes, I am aware that most car modelers paint their kits 
> without any 
> > > scale effect and glossed up to the flippin' eyeballs: 
> that's why I 
> > > can't be bothered to even peruse them at the various conventions. 
> > > Yes, I know it's
> > > really hard to get that perfectly smooth glossy of glossiest,
> > > shiny, shiny
> > > shine. But it looks boring, boring, boring and toy-like, in
> > > my view. Same
> > > thing goes for some civilian aircraft. Yes, that 747 requires
> > > extraordinary
> > > workmanship to get that flawless shiny gloss white
> > > Dipped-in-Future look.
> > > When it's done though, it looks like one of those things the
> > > airlines give
> > > away as a desk model - totally boring and lacking in
> > > dimensional effect.
> > >
> > > Maybe the light is different in Bolton, Lancashire - closest I've 
> > > been is Preston and is was fairly normal there:).
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > >From: "Andy Bannister" <a.bann at ntlworld.com>
> > > >
> > > >Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 18:21:45 -0000
> > > >
> > > >"Scale colour" is perhaps my biggest pet peeve so being the
> > > opinionated
> > > >b*stard I am I just  can't leave this alone. To my eye, 
> > > >substituting black with dark gray just looks "wrong". 
> Harry Woodman 
> > > >uses
> > > artists as
> > > >an example but artists (painters that is) work in 2
> > > dimensions and they
> > > >use scale colour and perspective to create the illusion of a 3rd 
> > > >dimension. Using this same technique on a 3 dimensional model is 
> > > >inappropriate and unnecessary. If, for instance, the model
> > > was part of
> > > >a large scale diorama where the angle of viewing was controlled 
> > > >then scale colour techniques would be quite effective to simulate
> > > distance,
> > > >but a model sitting on your shelf if finished by  scale
> > > colour "rules"
> > > >will only appear to have faded paint. It won't look any more
> > > like the
> > > >real thing sitting 72 or 48 feet away than a
> > > >toy rubber monkey will look like a giant ape because it is
> > > totally out of
> > > >context.
> > > >If a german aircraft has black crosses then a model of it
> > > should have black
> > > >crosses, not gray ones. Similarly, if you're modelling
> > > Jacobs' triplane
> > > >then
> > > >it would look strange if it is gray instead of black. And as
> > > I mentioned on
> > > >our previous discussion of this topic, this whole scale
> > > colour malarkey
> > > >seems confined to the military modelling world, civvie 
> aircraft & 
> > > >car modellers don't bother with it at all, if they're even aware
> > > of it. I'll
> > > >cite again my examples of a dark gray John Player's Special
> > > Lotus and a
> > > >Quantas Airlines 747 in pale red and off-white - how odd
> > > would they look?
> > > >And if you take it to the nth degree then 1/700 scale ships
> > > would be pretty
> > > >much white overall.
> > > >All just my very opinionated opinion on the subject of course... 
> > > >Andy
> > > >
> > > >CEO, Editor in Chief, Choreographer, Teaboy 
> www.warpedplastic.co.uk
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: wwi-bounces at wwi-models.org
> > > [mailto:wwi-bounces at wwi-models.org]
> > > > > On Behalf Of Dennis Ugulano
> > > > > Sent: 18 November 2006 13:02
> > > > > To: WWI Model Airplanes
> > > > > Subject: [WWI] Scale black
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > >     This subject came up a while back and I was 
> always under the 
> > > > > impression that black was black.  But, if someone 
> were to build 
> > > > > a fighter in black, would it be black black or some 
> gray in it? 
> > > > > Inquiring minds need to know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > email:  djuggie(at)comcast(dot)net http://wwi.priswell.com/
> > > > > Page Revised 7/8/2006
> > > > > "Each modeler will rise to their own level
> > > > > of masochism."
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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> >
> >
> 
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