CCI Digest 856 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Bannatyne by Nick Forder 2) Lost and Found ! by Nick Forder 3) by H Giblin 4) Re: by "Alan Smith" 5) Re: by "malcolm BARRASS" 6) Re: Ray Hinchliffe by "Marit Hagel/Stig Jarlevik" 7) Re: by H Giblin 8) Re: by H Giblin 9) Re: by "Alan Smith" 10) Camo Quotes by Nick Forder ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:39:14 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "'Rog@dennis53.freeserve.co.uk'" Cc: "'simonharveyfielding@yahoo.co.uk'" , Subject: Bannatyne Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F33F8AA9@EXCHANGE> Roger I saw your request in Hangar Notes. Bannatyne has been discussed at some length by the C&CI eGroup. What is it that you need to know ? Nick Forder Curator (Air & Space) Museum of Science & Industry in Manchester ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:47:16 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "Cci (E-mail)" Subject: Lost and Found ! Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F33F8AAA@EXCHANGE> I was interested to see the photo at the bottom of page 14 of the latest issue of the Journal (Bettington article). This shows the staff of No 2 ASD, which are the same people featured in a photo I sent to the Journal for possible identification something over 10 years ago ! Arthur Vere Bettington is the pilot I couldn't identify at the time. The question still remains as to who is the 12th Lancer officer (with an MC ribbon) on the chair next to him ! I have a list of possible suspects, but can anyone provide a listing of 2 ASD staff ? Nick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:31:03 -0500 From: H Giblin To: "INTERNET:cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu" Cc: H Giblin <100446.161@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <200303251131_MC3-1-3127-66FD@compuserve.com> Alan A little more on Silly - other than Malcolm's marvellous info: Born Sydney, NSW (in Oct 1914 he was 21 years 3 months old) A clerk with with Thomas Pulman & Co In Switzerland for 2 years to April 1911 Private No 885, 19/Royal Fusiliers -( 2 & 4 Public Schools Btns). France 12 Nov 1915 (14/15 Star) Back to UK 18 May 1916. Gazetted 2 LtRFA 2 Sept 1916 with transfer on the following day to the RFC. Gaz F/O 4 April 1917. He is one of my 'flying MC's' and I have the citation if you need it. Hal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:53:56 -0000 From: "Alan Smith" To: Subject: Re: Message-ID: <000501c2f2ef$2001f560$1cf36251@aero> Many thanks Hal, I have his DFC citation but would welcome his MC please. Regards, Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "H Giblin" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:33 PM Subject: [CCI] > Alan > A little more on Silly - other than Malcolm's marvellous info: > > Born Sydney, NSW (in Oct 1914 he was 21 years 3 months old) A clerk > with with Thomas Pulman & Co In Switzerland for 2 years to April 1911 > Private No 885, 19/Royal Fusiliers -( 2 & 4 Public Schools Btns). France > 12 Nov 1915 (14/15 Star) Back to UK 18 May 1916. Gazetted 2 LtRFA 2 > Sept 1916 with transfer on the following day to the RFC. Gaz F/O 4 April > 1917. > He is one of my 'flying MC's' and I have the citation if you need it. > Hal > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:40:03 -0000 From: "malcolm BARRASS" To: Subject: Re: Message-ID: <001801c2f306$555da8f0$ab9187d9@mb> Hi Hal Thanks for the kind word's and I've taken the liberty of udating B J Silly's entry with some of the 'new' info, hope you don't mind. Malcolm Barrass 'Air of Authority' www.rafweb.org Air Britain 18070 Outgoing mail checked and certified virus free by Norton Anti-virus ----- Original Message ----- From: "H Giblin" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:33 PM Subject: [CCI] > Alan > A little more on Silly - other than Malcolm's marvellous info: > > Born Sydney, NSW (in Oct 1914 he was 21 years 3 months old) A clerk > with with Thomas Pulman & Co In Switzerland for 2 years to April 1911 > Private No 885, 19/Royal Fusiliers -( 2 & 4 Public Schools Btns). France > 12 Nov 1915 (14/15 Star) Back to UK 18 May 1916. Gazetted 2 LtRFA 2 > Sept 1916 with transfer on the following day to the RFC. Gaz F/O 4 April > 1917. > He is one of my 'flying MC's' and I have the citation if you need it. > Hal > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:50:57 +0100 From: "Marit Hagel/Stig Jarlevik" To: Subject: Re: Ray Hinchliffe Message-ID: <006301c2f309$5f765140$912997d4@ditt216euufe0s> Mike While not implying you are wrong, I would say that if you start telling a story with the letter a, you should continue with the rest of the known letters in the alphabet..... Postwar there has been many many instances where more or less subtle accusations from many quarters (historians AND fellow pilots as well) as been raised. I hardly need to name certain Canadians here, or what the pilots of the Italian fighter squadrons felt about fellow RFC fliers in Italy. Again I know nothing about Hinchliffe, his upbringing, life and postwar career. So can you please explain why you use the word "cad", implying he was "licking his way" to become a Captain. Liar and thief are strong words! Are they based on his friends or enemies statements? On what public records are you basing your statements? Was he ever convicted in a court? For example the British system of awarding credits on a rather loose basis and accepting a "Gentlemans word for it", has led to many controversis, many still alive today. So again Mike, I look forward to your next installment on Hinchliffe, this time based on the facts you have. Cheers Stig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Westrop" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 10:00 PM Subject: [CCI] Ray Hinchliffe > David Barnes told me that there has been some interest in WGR Hinchliffe - I > did most of the research on Ray Hinchliffe that appeared in last year's > Sunday Times magazine feature on Elsie MacKay - this was as the result of > long term research into Naval 10/210 squadron. I have photographs, > documents, details of his father, a photo of his second wife, details of his > post war career etc., etc. > > The man was an absolute cad, a liar, thief, and I'm convinced he faked some > of his combat claims. He certainly re-wrote his last day at 210 squadron, > the published facts taken from his log book do not align with reality. > > His second wife, was mad keen on spiritualism and the result was two books, > "The Airman Who Would Not Die", and "The Return Of Captain WGR Hinchliffe". > If anyone believes, perhaps they might get in contact with Ray, and see if > he's prepared to tell the truth after all this time. > > If anyone has any questions, please line them up and I'll attempt to answer > them. > > Reagards, > > Mike Westrop > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:44:10 -0500 From: H Giblin To: "INTERNET:cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Message-ID: <200303251544_MC3-1-3117-D852@compuserve.com> Malcolm Pleased to help - I, in turn, have nicked some info from you!!! Best wishes Hal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:46:38 -0500 From: H Giblin To: "INTERNET:cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Message-ID: <200303251546_MC3-1-3117-D861@compuserve.com> Alan As follows: Military Cross, London Gazette of 4 March 1918, details 16 August 1918: 'For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He led several successful bomb raids and carried out many long distance reconnaissances. By his skill and determination he has invariably set a fine example to his Squadron'. Best wishes Hal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 07:48:05 -0000 From: "Alan Smith" To: Subject: Re: Message-ID: <000901c2f36c$5d294b00$1cf36251@aero> THanks Hal Regards, Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "H Giblin" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 8:48 PM Subject: [CCI] Re: > Alan > As follows: > > Military Cross, London Gazette of 4 March 1918, details 16 August 1918: > 'For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He led several > successful bomb raids and carried out many long distance reconnaissances. > By his skill and determination he has invariably set a fine example to his > Squadron'. > > Best wishes > Hal > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:35:17 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "Cci (E-mail)" Subject: Camo Quotes Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F33F8AB5@EXCHANGE> New game ! Here is a quote, guess the source : "The fuselage and upper surfaces of the wings of the Triplanes were doped a sort of darkened khaki containing a touch of green and the under surfaces of the wings were a light blue. On Naval Ten the aircraft of each of the three flights bore additional distinctive markings. Those of 'A' Flight had the metal cowling enclosing the rotary Clerget engine and the metal panels which enclosed the top and the sides of the fuselage behind it painted red, as were the canvas discs covering the outside of the wire-spoked undercarriage wheels. The aircraft of 'B' Flight were similarly coloured but in black while those of 'C' Flight bore blue markings. These colours served as a means of identification by flight in the air as well as on the ground...... The colourings enabled the mechanics to recognize immediately machines belonging to their flight as they they touched down." ------------------------------ End of CCI Digest 856 *********************