CCI Digest 797 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) W/T by Nick Forder 2) W/T by Nick Forder 3) Re: Wireless Telegraphy in aircraft by Nick Forder 4) GURNEY, Alfred Rell by Nick Forder 5) RE: [AB-IX] Henri Biard - Air-Britain wins through !!! by "John Grech" 6) Re: German Bombers by GaGin1@aol.com 7) Re: W/T by GaGin1@aol.com 8) Re: German Bombers by "Reggie" 9) Re: W/T by "Peter Wright" 10) Re: German Bombers by "Peter Wright" 11) Radio by Dick Bolt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:31:03 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "Cci (E-mail)" Subject: W/T Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F33F867D@EXCHANGE> 12.9.1911 Flying from Ely Racecourse, Cardiff, BC Hucks, flying in a Blackburn Mercury monoplane, received wireless signals transmitted from the ground by H Grindell-Matthews, while flying at 85 mph at 700 feet. 13.9.1911 Hucks repeated this feat. H Grindell Matthews tried to sell a 'deaty ray' to the Air Ministry between the wars. He failed to appear to demonstrate his apparatus ! Nick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:46:36 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "Cci (E-mail)" Subject: W/T Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F33F867F@EXCHANGE> After consulting John Barfoot's bible, and Graham Wallace's Biggin Hill, I discovered the following : The RFC began trials with wireless telgraphy and airacrft at Cramlington in 1916. On 21 November 1916 2Lt Douglas received a W/T message 24 miles from the transmitter. Developments were interrupted due to bureaucrarcy and difficulties with the Admiralty, which was supplying the equipment. The Admiralty feared that W/T would interfer with the Marconi Direction Finding Stations (see previous postings). Early in 1917 the trials unit moved to Biggin Hill, and was tasked to develop air-to-ground and air-to-air direct speech communication (radio telegraphy) as a priority. Tests were carried out elsewhere, and in September 1917 the first successful air-to-air R/T communication was carried out by Bristol Fighters of 11 Squadron. As a result of this two two-seater squadrons (Biffs ?) were equipped with the system. A ground-to-air long range transmitter was set up at Aplefield Court, a mile south east of Biggin. Using this system Bristol Fighters of 141 Squadron took part in successful trials in April 1918. In May 1918 143 Squadron SE 5a s and 141 Squadron Biffs were fitted with the system and used operationally against German daylight raids on Britain. The development and trials unit later moved from Biggin to Penhurst. Thanks for everyone's contribution Nick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:56:57 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "'cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Re: Wireless Telegraphy in aircraft Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F33F8681@EXCHANGE> Bob 'The Radar War : Germany`s Pioneering Achievment 1904-45' by David Pritchard looks at this claim in some depth. Patents on radar were published in Britiain before the Great War ! So much for Watson-Watt... Nick Supposedly another German scientist had developed a predecessor to radar, but those in high places could forsee no use for it. Regards, Bob Pearson Colours & Markings of the World's Air Forces 1912-20 http://www.internetmodeler.com/cd-roms/RNP_CD/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:04:19 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "Cci (E-mail)" Subject: GURNEY, Alfred Rell Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F33F8683@EXCHANGE> GURNEY, Alfred Rell Born 13 December 1894 Entered Rossall School, 1st Term 1909 Anchor House (Mr Hainsworth head 1888-1913) Left Rossall Christmas 1912 Temporary Lt Motor Machine Gun Corps Attached RAF as a Flying Officer Military Cross awarded 1918 (separate roll notes that this was to Lt Gurney) Address (1923) Plas Gwyn, Hereford Source : Rossall School Register 1844-1923 No reference to pre-commission service (in ASC or otherwise) No confirmation of service in MMGC (Heavy) Note that middle name is given as 'RELL' not 'Relf' Nick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:58:29 -0000 From: "John Grech" To: Subject: RE: [AB-IX] Henri Biard - Air-Britain wins through !!! Message-ID: <009101c2c3b0$aca7e560$1cc00650@your9al5izx2s9> Hi Nick, As we speak I ordered his death certificate two days ago and am waiting for it to arrive, any chance of a copy of the Flight obit? John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Forder" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:19 AM Subject: [CCI] RE: [AB-IX] Henri Biard - Air-Britain wins through !!! > > > Henri Biard is in the 1965 Guernsey directory, but his wife/widow is listed > instead in 1966. > > Henri Biard died on 18 January 1966, aged 74. A short obituary in "Flight" > notes that he learned to fly in 1911, searved in the RNAS during WWI, was > Supermarine test pilot from 1919 > to 1933, served in the RAF in WWII and became the Guernsey met officer. > > Civil Aviation website at http://users.argonet.co.uk/users/vicsmith > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:39:59 EST From: GaGin1@aol.com To: cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: German Bombers Message-ID: Thanks, Bob. Lannie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:52:43 EST From: GaGin1@aol.com To: cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: W/T Message-ID: <74.29b2c2e6.2b62ad3b@aol.com> Thanks, all. I shall modify my statement to Loraine being the first Brit to use wireless in a military sense, at the Army manuevers. Lannie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 18:19:33 -0000 From: "Reggie" To: Subject: Re: German Bombers Message-ID: <007701c2c3d5$b0ea7140$3f56e150@r6cs3> Thanks for that, is the Journal an on-line item? Thanks Reggie ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Wright To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:33 AM Subject: [CCI] Re: German Bombers > Hello! When the first issue of the Journal for 2003 appears, we will be > offering reprinted copies of 'The German Air Raids on Great Britain > 1914-18', in the sales column. > Peter W. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:06 PM > Subject: [CCI] Re: German Bombers > > > > > > --part1_168.19a1a21d.2b61c105_boundary > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > > > The Gotha Summer, by C.M.White does an excellent job of documenting the > Gotha > > raids on London and vicinity. Not many pictures, but tremendous detail > > while still remaining very readable. I read it a month ago and quite > enjoyed > > it. > > > > Dave Z. > > > > --part1_168.19a1a21d.2b61c105_boundary > > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Humanst521 Lt > BT" LANG="0">
> > The Gotha Summer, by C.M.White does an excellent job of documenting the > Gotha raids on London and vicinity.    Not many pictures, but > tremendous detail while still remaining very readable.  I read it a > month ago and quite enjoyed it.
> >
> > Dave Z. > > > > --part1_168.19a1a21d.2b61c105_boundary-- > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:47:59 -0000 From: "Peter Wright" To: Subject: Re: W/T Message-ID: <001f01c2c3e1$951b7de0$0e3b7bd5@NELLIE> Nick, Surely you mean Wireless Telephony? Peter W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Forder" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:55 AM Subject: [CCI] W/T > After consulting John Barfoot's bible, and Graham Wallace's Biggin Hill, I > discovered the following : > > The RFC began trials with wireless telgraphy and airacrft at Cramlington in > 1916. On 21 November 1916 2Lt Douglas received a W/T message 24 miles from > the transmitter. Developments were interrupted due to bureaucrarcy and > difficulties with the Admiralty, which was supplying the equipment. The > Admiralty feared that W/T would interfer with the Marconi Direction Finding > Stations (see previous postings). Early in 1917 the trials unit moved to > Biggin Hill, and was tasked to develop air-to-ground and air-to-air direct > speech communication (radio telegraphy) as a priority. Tests were carried > out elsewhere, and in September 1917 the first successful air-to-air R/T > communication was carried out by Bristol Fighters of 11 Squadron. As a > result of this two two-seater squadrons (Biffs ?) were equipped with the > system. A ground-to-air long range transmitter was set up at Aplefield > Court, a mile south east of Biggin. Using this system Bristol Fighters of > 141 Squadron took part in successful trials in April 1918. In May 1918 143 > Squadron SE 5a s and 141 Squadron Biffs were fitted with the system and used > operationally against German daylight raids on Britain. The development and > trials unit later moved from Biggin to Penhurst. > > Thanks for everyone's contribution > > Nick > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:55:34 -0000 From: "Peter Wright" To: Subject: Re: German Bombers Message-ID: <002701c2c3e2$a41ceee0$0e3b7bd5@NELLIE> Reggie, The Journal itself is not an on-line facility, but details of this book will appear in due course on our Website http://www.crossandcockade.com Sales List. Peter W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reggie" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 6:25 PM Subject: [CCI] Re: German Bombers > Thanks for that, is the Journal an on-line item? > Thanks > Reggie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Wright > To: Multiple recipients of list > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:33 AM > Subject: [CCI] Re: German Bombers > > > > Hello! When the first issue of the Journal for 2003 appears, we will be > > offering reprinted copies of 'The German Air Raids on Great Britain > > 1914-18', in the sales column. > > Peter W. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:06 PM > > Subject: [CCI] Re: German Bombers > > > > > > > > > > --part1_168.19a1a21d.2b61c105_boundary > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > > > > > > The Gotha Summer, by C.M.White does an excellent job of documenting the > > Gotha > > > raids on London and vicinity. Not many pictures, but tremendous > detail > > > while still remaining very readable. I read it a month ago and quite > > enjoyed > > > it. > > > > > > Dave Z. > > > > > > --part1_168.19a1a21d.2b61c105_boundary > > > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > > > > style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Humanst521 > Lt > > BT" LANG="0">
> > > The Gotha Summer, by C.M.White does an excellent job of documenting the > > Gotha raids on London and vicinity.    Not many pictures, > but > > tremendous detail while still remaining very readable.  I read it a > > month ago and quite enjoyed it.
> > >
> > > Dave Z. > > > > > > --part1_168.19a1a21d.2b61c105_boundary-- > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:23:55 -0500 From: Dick Bolt To: cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu Subject: Radio Message-ID: <3E31A0DB.C752A156@his.com> I just read the one page story on 1st radio (1910) on the referenced web site. I makes RF sense. The transmitter was like a door bell ringer with a wire tied to it. I made one in 1940s & could hear it over a mile away with a good Short wave receiver of that period .It was clear even up to 10 Meters or 30 MHZ. All you had to do was key it. Its illegal to use one of course !!! I part that sounds fluky is where the key was ! I would likely go on your leg with a strap as they did in WWII for mobile use. I still have a leg key from WWII surplus. If on the wheel, I would expect big gouges in ones hands. Dick > The Journal itself is not an on-line facility, but details of this > book will appear in due course on our Website http://www.crossandcockade.com ------------------------------ End of CCI Digest 797 *********************