CCI Digest 794 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Hucks by Nick Forder 2) RE: (no subject) by Nick Forder 3) Re: FW: Henri Biard from Air-Britain by Nick Forder 4) Billy Cotton by Nick Forder 5) Spottiswoode Ref by Nick Forder 6) Re: Entertainers by "John Grech" 7) Biard by Nick Forder 8) Biard by H Giblin 9) Re: Entertainers by H Giblin 10) Re: Biard by "John Grech" 11) Re: Entertainers by "John Grech" 12) German Bombers by "Reggie" 13) RE: German Bombers by Nick Forder ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:52:36 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "'cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Re: Hucks Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F31783F3@EXCHANGE> John Thanks for this information. Any chance of a copy of the Ilford photo and one of the grave ? It might just galvanise me into action and write a 'Hucks at War' article, if not the book I ought to write. I assume that you know that Hucks was born at Bentfield End in Essex ? I have seen a claim that he was welsh (possibly a consequence of the apprenticeship he served with the South Wales Motor Company in Cardiff). Nick A local 14 year old who later served in the RFC/RAF took a coup;e of photo's of Hucks and his Bleriot in Loxford Park Ilford, Essex in August 1913, Benny had been booked to return for the Carnival the following August, but the 'Gerries' marched into Belgium and spoilt a fine summer for flying displays among other things. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:54:44 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "'cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: (no subject) Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F31783F4@EXCHANGE> Lannie I tried to buy a copy recently. I have told Air-Britain that they need to reprint it. In the meantime, it is worth looking for a copy of Alan Lake's 'Flying Units of the RAF' (or similar) published by Airlife. Nick -----Original Message----- From: GaGin1@aol.com [mailto:GaGin1@aol.com] Sent: 20 January 2003 21:49 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [CCI] (no subject) Hi, Does anyone have a coy of Royal Air Force Flying Training and Support Units by Ray Sturtivant, John Hamlin, and James J. Halley? I have checked used booksellers on the net and cannot find it anywhere. Lannie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:57:14 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "'cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Re: FW: Henri Biard from Air-Britain Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F31783F5@EXCHANGE> Hal I looked at a copy of a Rossall Register last night which included a list of masters. Biard's father wasn't on it, so... Nick -----Original Message----- From: H Giblin [mailto:Hal_Giblin@compuserve.com] Sent: 21 January 2003 00:14 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [CCI] Re: FW: Henri Biard from Air-Britain Nick Unfortunately my Rossall Register covers only 1910-67 - those who entered previously were omitted, and apparently thought themselves harshly treated because of it! Shame, indeed, if Biard was one of those. His age would certainly have meant that he would have entered before 1910. Yet another brickwall... A trawl through the Calandars of Probate might be worthwhile...... Hal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:07:25 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "Cci (E-mail)" Subject: Billy Cotton Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F31783F6@EXCHANGE> Enlisted as Pte 782160 W E Cotton in 2/2 Londons Served in Dardanelles Return to HE and joined 100th Provisional Battalion at Aldeburgh Applied for commission in RFC (then aged 16, having served in Army for 18 months !) To Aldershot for PT course. Offered Sgt's stripes to become an instructor To Denham for officer training To 16 Squadron (sic) at Yatesbury for flying training under Lord Innes-Ker Started on DH6, progressed to BE2e and the RE8 Instructor Captain 'Daddy' Probyn DSO MC Croix de Guerre Went solo on 1 April 1918 (after 5 hours dual) Progressed to Biffs (working up for BEF) Collected and delivered Biffs from Bristol. Took part in landing trails of float fitted DH6 in sea off Saxmundham (flotation bag test ?) Gunnery course at Turnberry (Flight Commander was Slim Crowson, a Canadian) Witnessed death of 'Wing Examiner' Cobell, who was KIFA in an RE8 between Bath and Chippenham with Dearmer Williams as passenger Crashed a Biff he was flying into an RE8 parked between two hangars while stunting "Never fired a shot in anger" Volunteered for conversion training to fly Walrus SAR in WW2 I wonder how much of this in accurate ? The serial number seems very high. I haven't managed to find Cobell yet. Nick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:35:00 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "Cci (E-mail)" Subject: Spottiswoode Ref Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F31783F8@EXCHANGE> You may recall that I promised the source of the interview with Spottiswoode's son that indicated the former was working undercover in an airship manufacturing plant in Germany before/during the war ? The interview appears in Christopher Andrew's book 'Secret Service'. Nick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:22:27 -0000 From: "John Grech" To: Subject: Re: Entertainers Message-ID: <002401c2c136$ffb39870$1cc00650@your9al5izx2s9> Hal This is a bit strange? Why would a New York newspaper report the death of O'Brien using the reports that obviously came from Los Angeles if he died in New York? Also why would the newspapers in L.A. write a report stating that he died in the city? I also have a follow up report saying that the local L.A. police and coroners office had re -investigated the case at the request of O'Brien's family as they suspected murder. O'Brien's sister was living in Illinois at the time not far from Chicago. I have a friend in Oakland and will write to him to see if he can clear this up, but as he is not on the internet this could take some weeks. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "H Giblin" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 12:12 AM Subject: [CCI] Re: Entertainers > John > I have the LA report. I also have a report that he was in New York when > he killed himself. ??? > Hal > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:32:03 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "Cci (E-mail)" Subject: Biard Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F31783FC@EXCHANGE> I have just received a letter from Nev Doyle claiming that Biard was educated at Jersey 'top school'. Unforunately, Nev hasn't got a date of death. Nick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:09:53 -0500 From: H Giblin To: "INTERNET:cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Biard Message-ID: <200301211010_MC3-1-25FE-7363@compuserve.com> Nick He certainly appears in the 'Roll of Service' for Victoria College, Jersey: 'Biard, Lieutenant Henry Charles, (1906-07), RAF There's another Biard: Biard, Lieutenant Walter Luccan (1906-07), RASC Idential dates at the school - he's not a twin is he? Hal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:24:54 -0500 From: H Giblin To: "INTERNET:cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Entertainers Message-ID: <200301211025_MC3-1-25BE-BD63@compuserve.com> John No need to pursue. Following your comments I re-visited my cuttings. The New York Times of 19 December 1920, page 14, column 3, reports his suicide. What I hadn't noticed, until now, is a smudged 'by-line' : "Los Angeles, Dec 18" !!!! My error, I apologise. Hal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:39:18 -0000 From: "John Grech" To: Subject: Re: Biard Message-ID: <003d01c2c16b$a45fabf0$1cc00650@your9al5izx2s9> Hal There was a brother Walter at the Godalming address John ----- Original Message ----- From: "H Giblin" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: [CCI] Biard > Nick > He certainly appears in the 'Roll of Service' for Victoria College, Jersey: > > 'Biard, Lieutenant Henry Charles, (1906-07), RAF > > There's another Biard: > Biard, Lieutenant Walter Luccan (1906-07), RASC > > Idential dates at the school - he's not a twin is he? > Hal > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:40:28 -0000 From: "John Grech" To: Subject: Re: Entertainers Message-ID: <004301c2c16b$ce63e5b0$1cc00650@your9al5izx2s9> Hal, The letter went out lunch time, I'll see what turns up. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "H Giblin" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 3:26 PM Subject: [CCI] Re: Entertainers > John > No need to pursue. Following your comments I re-visited my cuttings. > The New York Times of 19 December 1920, page 14, column 3, reports his > suicide. What I hadn't noticed, until now, is a smudged 'by-line' : "Los > Angeles, Dec 18" !!!! > My error, I apologise. > Hal > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:42:27 -0000 From: "Reggie" To: Subject: German Bombers Message-ID: <00b701c2c19e$6385c5a0$5c43e150@r6cs3> I have recently become interested in the German raids on Britain in WW1 and whilst I had heard of Gotha bombers before I did not know they were superseded by Giant bombers. Were Giant bombers a variant of Gothas or were they an entirely new plane built by a different manufacturer - anyone know? Thanks Reg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:20:57 -0000 From: Nick Forder To: "'cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: German Bombers Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F3178405@EXCHANGE> Reg The two aircraft are very different. I suggest that you look at : Bombers 1914-1919 - Kenneth Munson (Blandford). This is a book quite commonly found in secondhand book shops and libraries. While it is by no means definitive, and more recent research questions its accuracy in some respects, it is an ideal introduction to the subject. Also, you should look out for the following : 1. German Aircraft of the First World War - P L Gray & O Thetford (Putnams) 2. Pictorial History of the German Air Service - Alex Imrie (Ian Allan) 3. German Giants - G Haddow & P Grosz (Putnams) 4. German Bombers of World War 1 Alex Imrie (Arms & Armour Press Vintage Fotofile) Most larger libraries will have a copy of at least one of these. 1. is a type-by-type review. 2. will give you a good overview in the first half, and the second half is photos. 3. is the closest thing to a definitive history of the subject that we are ever likely to see. 4. is a good photo survey. Nick -----Original Message----- From: Reggie [mailto:bewitched1@lineone.net] Sent: 21 January 2003 22:45 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [CCI] German Bombers I have recently become interested in the German raids on Britain in WW1 and whilst I had heard of Gotha bombers before I did not know they were superseded by Giant bombers. Were Giant bombers a variant of Gothas or were they an entirely new plane built by a different manufacturer - anyone know? Thanks Reg ------------------------------ End of CCI Digest 794 *********************