CCI Digest 789

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: XIV Wing from Chipilly to Flez
	by Nick Forder <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
  2) Biard
	by Nick Forder <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
  3) Re: Biard
	by "John Grech" <john.grech@ntlworld.com>
  4) Re: Biard
	by Nick Forder <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
  5) Re: Biard
	by "John Grech" <john.grech@ntlworld.com>
  6) Spank the spammers
	by Allan Wright <aew>
  7) Re: Spank the spammers
	by "Jay Gilmour" <jagil@oz.net>
  8) Re: Spank the spammers
	by Allan Wright <aew>
  9) Re: Biard
	by "Peter Wright" <wright.brother@btopenworld.com>
 10) Re: e-mails
	by "johnbarfoot" <johnbarfoot@supanet.com>
 11) Re: XIV Wing from Chipilly to Flez
	by GaGin1@aol.com
 12) Re: Biard
	by "John Grech" <john.grech@ntlworld.com>
 13) Re: Biard
	by Nick Forder <n.forder@msim.org.uk>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:33:51 -0000
From: Nick Forder <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
To: "'cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu'" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: XIV Wing from Chipilly to Flez
Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F3178375@EXCHANGE>

C&CI reprinted an article on training units which Ray Sturtivant wrote for
Aviation News. The Lake book on RAF units etc (Airlife)is fairly good too.
The latter can be found in some branches of County Bookshops in the UK for
the trivial sum of £7.99. I think that FlyPast had a stock of them at around
this price too.

I have some information about Hooton Park and Vendome.

Nick 

-----Original Message-----
From: GaGin1@aol.com [mailto:GaGin1@aol.com]
Sent: 15 January 2003 20:43
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [CCI] Re: XIV Wing from Chipilly to Flez


Dear Folks,
Yes I know Naval 1 peeled off and wewnt to Bellevue; Naval 6 enters the 
picture and goes to Flez as part of the 14th Wing, and do not have a date
for 
THAT.
Another question: does anybody know any works about Training Wings?
Lannie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:50:14 -0000
From: Nick Forder <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
To: "Cci (E-mail)" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Biard
Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F3178378@EXCHANGE>

I remembered 'From Sea Eagle to Flamingo : Channel Island Airlines
1923-1939' today. It contains some references to Biard, as a Sea Eagle
pilot, but nothing much in the way of a biog (I might drop the author,
Neville Doyle, a line to see if he has any more info). Penrose's 'British
Aviation : The Adventuring Years' has info of a similar nature.

Biard doesn't make Who's Who 1928, or Who's Who in Aviation 1948. Of course
lack of inclusion in the latter merely means that he was no longer a player
in aviation circles, rather than he was dead necessarily.

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:47:45 -0000
From: "John Grech" <john.grech@ntlworld.com>
To: <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Biard
Message-ID: <001a01c2bd44$528ec7f0$1cc00650@your9al5izx2s9>

Hi Nick,

My interest in Biard is for Recc in the journal. I have been lent his
autobiography and have consulted Putnams Supermarine,
and also there is some information on the web re the Schneider Trophy. He
does not  make my 1949 Who's Who.  But if  I could pin point his date of
death there might have been an obituary in one of the papers.

John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Forder" <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:59 AM
Subject: [CCI] Biard


> I remembered 'From Sea Eagle to Flamingo : Channel Island Airlines
> 1923-1939' today. It contains some references to Biard, as a Sea Eagle
> pilot, but nothing much in the way of a biog (I might drop the author,
> Neville Doyle, a line to see if he has any more info). Penrose's 'British
> Aviation : The Adventuring Years' has info of a similar nature.
>
> Biard doesn't make Who's Who 1928, or Who's Who in Aviation 1948. Of
course
> lack of inclusion in the latter merely means that he was no longer a
player
> in aviation circles, rather than he was dead necessarily.
>
> Nick
>



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:48:28 -0000
From: Nick Forder <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
To: "'cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu'" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Biard
Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F317837C@EXCHANGE>

John

I'll ask Nev Doyle. I'll check my 1948 Whos Who in Aviation for Pixton.
Pixton was out of aviation by then, but it should be a good check to see
whether Schneider Trophy pilots made it on that basis alone.

Recently, there has been a book of aviation newspaper obits. Is he in that ?

Nick 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Grech [mailto:john.grech@ntlworld.com]
Sent: 16 January 2003 09:48
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [CCI] Re: Biard


Hi Nick,

My interest in Biard is for Recc in the journal. I have been lent his
autobiography and have consulted Putnams Supermarine,
and also there is some information on the web re the Schneider Trophy. He
does not  make my 1949 Who's Who.  But if  I could pin point his date of
death there might have been an obituary in one of the papers.

John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Forder" <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:59 AM
Subject: [CCI] Biard


> I remembered 'From Sea Eagle to Flamingo : Channel Island Airlines
> 1923-1939' today. It contains some references to Biard, as a Sea Eagle
> pilot, but nothing much in the way of a biog (I might drop the author,
> Neville Doyle, a line to see if he has any more info). Penrose's 'British
> Aviation : The Adventuring Years' has info of a similar nature.
>
> Biard doesn't make Who's Who 1928, or Who's Who in Aviation 1948. Of
course
> lack of inclusion in the latter merely means that he was no longer a
player
> in aviation circles, rather than he was dead necessarily.
>
> Nick
>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:38:22 -0000
From: "John Grech" <john.grech@ntlworld.com>
To: <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Biard
Message-ID: <002e01c2bd53$c66072a0$1cc00650@your9al5izx2s9>

Nick,

He is not in the obits book, which is very selective.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Forder" <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:58 AM
Subject: [CCI] Re: Biard


> John
>
> I'll ask Nev Doyle. I'll check my 1948 Whos Who in Aviation for Pixton.
> Pixton was out of aviation by then, but it should be a good check to see
> whether Schneider Trophy pilots made it on that basis alone.
>
> Recently, there has been a book of aviation newspaper obits. Is he in that
?
>
> Nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Grech [mailto:john.grech@ntlworld.com]
> Sent: 16 January 2003 09:48
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: [CCI] Re: Biard
>
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> My interest in Biard is for Recc in the journal. I have been lent his
> autobiography and have consulted Putnams Supermarine,
> and also there is some information on the web re the Schneider Trophy. He
> does not  make my 1949 Who's Who.  But if  I could pin point his date of
> death there might have been an obituary in one of the papers.
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Forder" <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:59 AM
> Subject: [CCI] Biard
>
>
> > I remembered 'From Sea Eagle to Flamingo : Channel Island Airlines
> > 1923-1939' today. It contains some references to Biard, as a Sea Eagle
> > pilot, but nothing much in the way of a biog (I might drop the author,
> > Neville Doyle, a line to see if he has any more info). Penrose's
'British
> > Aviation : The Adventuring Years' has info of a similar nature.
> >
> > Biard doesn't make Who's Who 1928, or Who's Who in Aviation 1948. Of
> course
> > lack of inclusion in the latter merely means that he was no longer a
> player
> > in aviation circles, rather than he was dead necessarily.
> >
> > Nick
> >
>
>



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:29:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Allan Wright <aew>
To: cci
Subject: Spank the spammers
Message-ID: <200301161529.KAA69456@mustang.sr.unh.edu>

Consider the spammers spanked.

You must be subscribed to post to this list now.

Al

===============================================================================
Allan Wright Jr.            | Without love life's just a long fight - Southside
University of New Hampshire +--------------------------------------------------
Research Computing Center   | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@wwi-models.org
Internet: aew@unh.edu       | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://www.wwi-models.org
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:18:26 -0800
From: "Jay Gilmour" <jagil@oz.net>
To: <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Spank the spammers
Message-ID: <001a01c2bd83$47fb1d40$b59027d8@jagil>

Al-
Are current listers automatically subscribed, or is there a 'sign-up'
procedure we should execute?
Jay Gilmour


> Consider the spammers spanked.
> You must be subscribed to post to this list now.
> Al



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:22:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Allan Wright <aew>
To: cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Spank the spammers
Message-ID: <200301161822.NAA70864@mustang.sr.unh.edu>

Being a 'lister' is what I mean by 'subscribed'. You're all set.

Al

> 
> Al-
> Are current listers automatically subscribed, or is there a 'sign-up'
> procedure we should execute?
> Jay Gilmour
> 
> 
> > Consider the spammers spanked.
> > You must be subscribed to post to this list now.
> > Al
> 
> 
> 


===============================================================================
Allan Wright Jr.            | Without love life's just a long fight - Southside
University of New Hampshire +--------------------------------------------------
Research Computing Center   | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@wwi-models.org
Internet: aew@unh.edu       | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://www.wwi-models.org
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:40:55 -0000
From: "Peter Wright" <wright.brother@btopenworld.com>
To: <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Biard
Message-ID: <003901c2bd97$46f3a840$60107bd5@NELLIE>

John, BIARD. My 'Aeroplane Directory 1960' gives him as RAF 1939-1945, Met
Officer States Airport Guernsey, retired 1955, ran the 'Coach & Horses'
Titchfield, nr Fareham, Hants. Does this move us further forward?
Peter W.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Grech" <john.grech@ntlworld.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:48 AM
Subject: [CCI] Re: Biard


> Hi Nick,
>
> My interest in Biard is for Recc in the journal. I have been lent his
> autobiography and have consulted Putnams Supermarine,
> and also there is some information on the web re the Schneider Trophy. He
> does not  make my 1949 Who's Who.  But if  I could pin point his date of
> death there might have been an obituary in one of the papers.
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Forder" <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:59 AM
> Subject: [CCI] Biard
>
>
> > I remembered 'From Sea Eagle to Flamingo : Channel Island Airlines
> > 1923-1939' today. It contains some references to Biard, as a Sea Eagle
> > pilot, but nothing much in the way of a biog (I might drop the author,
> > Neville Doyle, a line to see if he has any more info). Penrose's
'British
> > Aviation : The Adventuring Years' has info of a similar nature.
> >
> > Biard doesn't make Who's Who 1928, or Who's Who in Aviation 1948. Of
> course
> > lack of inclusion in the latter merely means that he was no longer a
> player
> > in aviation circles, rather than he was dead necessarily.
> >
> > Nick
> >
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:10:26 -0000
From: "johnbarfoot" <johnbarfoot@supanet.com>
To: <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: e-mails
Message-ID: <001901c2bd9b$efbe4580$cd926fd4@oemcomputer>


----- Original Message -----
From: Brian.E.Hall <Sedgecope@compuserve.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 8:42 PM
Subject: [CCI] Re: e-mails


Evening WWI Buffs and Spammers! I have just returned from a few days in
Dorset to find 36 emails awaiting my pleasure.
Simple soul that I am, I thought, at last long last we CCI members have
another discussion in full swing, thanks to the Red Baron or who ever. I
deleted the offending spam email without reading it for obvious reasons, but
the majority of the remaining 35 have little to do with the war to end all
wars! If we want to get out of our prams about something, may I point out
that Nick Forder has been missed off the New Years Honours list in spite of
all his efforts to keep this discussion group interesting, keep up the good
work Nick.   During F/Sgt Dogzbody's trip down memory lane at Christmas he
mentioned Jack Warner (Jack Waters) who served with No.12 Sqn  RFC/RAF, how
many more well known entertainers served with the RFC/RAF & RNAS during WWI.
Others that come to mind as I type are Ivor Novello (David Ivor Davies) RNAS
and Mervyn Johns RFC/RAF, I expect there are a few more, any suggestions
anyone? if not use the delete button!    The best of British as I remember
it,  John B. Essex Chapter.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:30:36 EST
From: GaGin1@aol.com
To: cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: XIV Wing from Chipilly to Flez
Message-ID: <169.194c532f.2b58d2dc@aol.com>

Thank you, Nick!
Lannie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 07:50:49 -0000
From: "John Grech" <john.grech@ntlworld.com>
To: <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Biard
Message-ID: <003b01c2bdfd$26ecbda0$1cc00650@your9al5izx2s9>

Hi Peter,

Thanks it certainly does, narrows down a date of death to within the last 40
years.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Wright" <wright.brother@btopenworld.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 7:39 PM
Subject: [CCI] Re: Biard


> John, BIARD. My 'Aeroplane Directory 1960' gives him as RAF 1939-1945, Met
> Officer States Airport Guernsey, retired 1955, ran the 'Coach & Horses'
> Titchfield, nr Fareham, Hants. Does this move us further forward?
> Peter W.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Grech" <john.grech@ntlworld.com>
> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:48 AM
> Subject: [CCI] Re: Biard
>
>
> > Hi Nick,
> >
> > My interest in Biard is for Recc in the journal. I have been lent his
> > autobiography and have consulted Putnams Supermarine,
> > and also there is some information on the web re the Schneider Trophy.
He
> > does not  make my 1949 Who's Who.  But if  I could pin point his date of
> > death there might have been an obituary in one of the papers.
> >
> > John
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Nick Forder" <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:59 AM
> > Subject: [CCI] Biard
> >
> >
> > > I remembered 'From Sea Eagle to Flamingo : Channel Island Airlines
> > > 1923-1939' today. It contains some references to Biard, as a Sea Eagle
> > > pilot, but nothing much in the way of a biog (I might drop the author,
> > > Neville Doyle, a line to see if he has any more info). Penrose's
> 'British
> > > Aviation : The Adventuring Years' has info of a similar nature.
> > >
> > > Biard doesn't make Who's Who 1928, or Who's Who in Aviation 1948. Of
> > course
> > > lack of inclusion in the latter merely means that he was no longer a
> > player
> > > in aviation circles, rather than he was dead necessarily.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> >
> >
>
>



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:04:57 -0000
From: Nick Forder <n.forder@msim.org.uk>
To: "'cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu'" <cci@mustang.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Biard
Message-ID: <059A77A01B10D611B19C00065B19D2F3178398@EXCHANGE>

John 

I think that Nev Doyle will have the answer. I'll write to him today. There
isn't much point 'phoning him as he is deaf (unless his wife is there, he
doesn't even know the phone is ringing). Looks like he didn't retire to
Guernsey, which may have made him easier to find.

Other refs to Biard include Broughton's book on the British Light Aeroplane
(Supermarine Sparrow) and Thomas Foxworth's 'The Speed Seekers' (wonderful
book) covers all the Schneider stuff (S4, Sea Urchin & Sea Lion), notes that
Biard was "extremely tactiturn"; learned to fly with the Grahame White
School at Hendon in 1912 (I'll have to check these dates - he may have been
a contemporary of Salmond as a pupil and taught by BC Hucks); served in RNAS
in WW1; became Supermarine Test Pilot in 1920 (NB Was Alex Henshaw his
immediate successor ?). 

Foxworth quotes 'Wings' Chapter 4 (Hurst & Blackett, London, 1934) which
contains Biard's account of the S4 crash.

There was a book on Scott-Paine & Supermarine's called 'Fast Boats and
Flying Boats' which may tell you something of interest. Phil Jarrett was the
publisher's editor, so that is a shortcut you might like to consider !

Nick

------------------------------

End of CCI Digest 789
*********************