WWI Digest 4977 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by "Shane Weier" 2) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by BRENT THEOBALD 3) Re: Revell news by "Hans Trauner" 4) Re: Worth a look on Hotwash.... by "Shane Weier" 5) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by "Steven Perry" 6) Re: Alb D.III by "Pedro Soares" 7) Re: contest Orlando, FL by "Shane Weier" 8) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by "Shane Weier" 9) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_H=E9ctor_AFFLITTO_ECHAG=DCE?= 10) Tough paints... was Thinning Gunze Paint by "Lance Krieg" 11) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by BRENT THEOBALD 12) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_H=E9ctor_AFFLITTO_ECHAG=DCE?= 13) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by "Pedro Soares" 14) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by "Pedro Soares" 15) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by "Pedro Soares" 16) Re: Tough paints... was Thinning Gunze Paint by "Shane Weier" 17) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by "Pedro Soares" 18) Re: Worth a look on Hotwash.... by "Pedro Soares" 19) Re: Stupid email.... by Sean Brian Kirby 20) Re: Stupid email.... by Sean Brian Kirby 21) Re: Stupid email.... by Sean Brian Kirby 22) Tom Bell's Albatros by Morg17ms@aol.com 23) Re: Tough paints... was Thinning Gunze Paint by BRENT THEOBALD 24) Tony Bell by Morg17ms@aol.com 25) Re: Tough paints... by Zulis@aol.com 26) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by "Shane Weier" 27) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by "Shane Weier" 28) Re: Thinning Gunze Paint by "Shane Weier" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 07:58:28 +1000 From: "Shane Weier" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: Neil the elkretainer says: >PS. >If you're into really weird things, also mix in clear varnish and a dab of >white >paint. >PPS. (Don't do the above that is only for really sick people, even I don't >do it!) Ahem. Is this yet another nordic jab at me ? ;-) Shane ******************************** My Strine is a Toad in Disguise ******************************** _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 15:57:49 -0600 From: BRENT THEOBALD To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: <12beea127d47.127d4712beea@icomcast.net> Howdy! Shane states: > I like Humbrol because I'm an exceptionally ham fisted > modeller,and Humbrol paints dry harder than any other - and are more > immune to damage by thinners when dry, so allow me to fiddle about > repairing my cockups with impunity Humbrol *is* a very tough paint. However, I would like to respectfully disagree. X-tra Colour paints are the toughest. They also smell the worst and are the most difficult to remove from my hands. I have used their Russian Armor Green on several PC-10 projects with good results. Shane and I must share the hamfistedness trait. Hey wait! I don't think I had it until I took stewardship of Shane's Halberstadt. SP! Did you notice a sudden increase in fat-fingeredness when the Halberstadt was present? I gotta get that thing to Pedro pronto pronto! Later! Brent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:04:19 +0100 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: Revell news Message-ID: <004b01c2cbd0$33a23620$81a272d4@FRITZweb> Let us wait and see, Neil. I think Roden would not be 'exact' enough for Revell. Remember the SE5 riddle last year? They published measurements which where not those of the model but figured from the original. 30 pieces for a Dreidecker in today's quality is pretty low. It would work only with bad MG and nearly no cockpit. Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crawford Neil" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 1:56 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Revell news > Your sources really are first class Hans, I'd never bothered > looking through boring old Revells site, without your hint > that there might be something worth finding. > Still really don't understand why they bother though. > So it's not an Eduard either? How many parts in a Roden? > /Neil C. > > > > > Hey, I told you that already! Nobody believes me... :-( > > My sources are first class.... > > BTW, the Eduard Dr I has 35 parts.... > > > > Hans ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 08:03:04 +1000 From: "Shane Weier" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Worth a look on Hotwash.... Message-ID: 'ming >Doesn't the real thing (and I only have photos of STROPP) have >different >grain on each panel? Yep. I invariably mask alternate panels and grain the uncovered ones then reverse my masking. Not everyone is such an ass, and as no-one seems to notice anyway I'm not too sure why I bother. >Have others considered this? Anyone done it? When I did my 1/72 one, I >did >each >panel one at a time to get the effect I was looking for, but I used a >completely different method. I also *invariably* fill the "panel" lines and replace them with faint pencil lines, in both 1/72 and 1/48 Shane ******************************** My Strine is a Toad in Disguise ******************************** _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:08:47 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: <007801c2cbd0$d3012960$65a8a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> > I had it until I took stewardship of Shane's Halberstadt. SP! Did you > notice a sudden increase in fat-fingeredness when the Halberstadt was > present? I gotta get that thing to Pedro pronto pronto! > > Later! > > Brent Better wait till he finishes his Nieuport ;-) sp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:49:29 -0000 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: Re: Alb D.III Message-ID: <003101c2cbce$248fcaa0$d8465451@netcabo.pt> Sanjeev, I entirely subscribe to your words. Look at the exhaust, amazing weather effects there. On a similar note, I just checked Ken Foran's latest DVII photos.... absolutely amazing. The white parts are resin castings out of the brass masters? Most incredible work indeed. Pedro > I just took a look at Tony Bell's Alb D.III > Incredibly clean finish! > Beautiful weathering > Great wood finish. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 08:13:27 +1000 From: "Shane Weier" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: contest Orlando, FL Message-ID: SP > > The IPMS Region 11 convention & contest is being > > held in Orlando on March 29 & 30th 2003. > > I'm there :-) You're early..... S ******************************** My Strine is a Toad in Disguise ******************************** _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 08:23:22 +1000 From: "Shane Weier" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: Brent says: >Humbrol *is* a very tough paint. However, I would like to respectfully >disagree. X-tra Colour paints are the toughest. We'll have to keep disagreeing then. I (and quite a few others) have had trouble masking Xtracolour - it peels away is great sheets regardless of how the surface has been prepared (though a coat of Humbrol primer helps ;-) and using lacquer thinner does too) Shane ******************************** My Strine is a Toad in Disguise ******************************** _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:38:06 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_H=E9ctor_AFFLITTO_ECHAG=DCE?= To: Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: <004901c2cbd4$ec708ea0$56b3e818@fibertel.com.ar> Mis queridos amigos de la lista están cada vez mas Nuts!!1( Locos ) Doy un pequeño ejemplo > I've > > heard from Russian modelers that the best thinner for Gunze acrylics > > (I guess these are called "Gunze Sangyo") is vodka. Seriously. > > Wonder if White Lightnin' would do ;-) > sp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:47:53 -0600 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Tough paints... was Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: Brent and Shane wrangle over the toughest paint, which leads me to ask: Where do you guys stand on the relative toughness of Floquil? When it was lacquer-based, I fell into the habit of using it all the time; now it is merely another enamel, and my loyalty may be out-dated. Seems pretty tough, but I almost never use any other brand, and so cannot compare. Opinions? TIA Lance ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:49:08 -0600 From: BRENT THEOBALD To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: <1585501566c6.1566c6158550@icomcast.net> Howdy! > We'll have to keep disagreeing then. I (and quite a few others) > have had trouble masking Xtracolour - it peels away is great sheets > regardless of how the surface has been prepared Did you, or those other people, have the cursed Halbie in your possesion? :-) Upon reconsideration I have discovered that I may never have masked over X-tra Colour. When I stated X-tra Colour was "tough" I meant in regard to washes. I've only used it on monochromatic subjects such as the Snipe or (ot alert!) KV-1. I'll have to take this into consideration. Later! Brent Have you heard that all the K-Marts and Walmarts are being closed in Iraq? They are being replaced with Targets. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:58:51 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_H=E9ctor_AFFLITTO_ECHAG=DCE?= To: Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: <00db01c2cbd7$d3e36ee0$56b3e818@fibertel.com.ar> OOps, I made a mistake!!!!! Sorry!!!! I would like to solve the paint with cabernet sauvignone Hummmm Ummmm!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Héctor AFFLITTO ECHAGÜE" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 7:40 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Thinning Gunze Paint > Mis queridos amigos de la lista están cada vez mas Nuts!!1( Locos ) > Doy un pequeño ejemplo > > > I've > > > heard from Russian modelers that the best thinner for Gunze acrylics > > > (I guess these are called "Gunze Sangyo") is vodka. Seriously. > > > > Wonder if White Lightnin' would do ;-) > > sp > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:17:07 -0000 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: <005901c2cbda$606472e0$d8465451@netcabo.pt> > Shane and I must share the hamfistedness trait. Hey wait! I don't think > I had it until I took stewardship of Shane's Halberstadt. SP! Did you > notice a sudden increase in fat-fingeredness when the Halberstadt was > present? I gotta get that thing to Pedro pronto pronto! > Oh yes, Brent, please, please. We have a month now. Thanks Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:19:51 -0000 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: <006101c2cbda$c1e34000$d8465451@netcabo.pt> > > Better wait till he finishes his Nieuport ;-) > sp Thanks for you care, friend ;-) Actually I am already pretty hamfisted so I fear not Shane's curse. And my Nieuport is now stalled because of decals. But I think I can finish it until Model Troia next March. Only needs some decals and the cone de penetration. Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:16:22 -0000 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: <005501c2cbda$47bd69e0$d8465451@netcabo.pt> I think it's probably because Extracolours are gloss. The tape sticks to gloss much stronger than to flat. This is where using cellulose thinners to thin the paint will probably help since the bite of the thinners on the plastic will foster paint adhesion. Funny to see how gloss paints sometimes come cleanly away from the painted surface leaving no trace at all as if they were never there. I do a great deal of my painting with gloss paints, so I have some experience with them but mask lifting is always a stressful occasion. Down side of course is that you can't shoot for a wet gloss coat or else you'll make a mess out of the plastic Glossy Pedro > We'll have to keep disagreeing then. I (and quite a few others) have had > trouble masking Xtracolour - it peels away is great sheets regardless of how > the surface has been prepared (though a coat of Humbrol primer helps ;-) and > using lacquer thinner does too) > > Shane > > > > ******************************** > > My Strine is a Toad in Disguise > > > ******************************** > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 09:21:51 +1000 From: "Shane Weier" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Tough paints... was Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: lANCE >Where do you guys stand on the relative toughness of Floquil? > Worse than Xtracolour >When it was lacquer-based, I fell into the habit of using it all the >time; now it is merely another enamel, and my loyalty may be out-dated. >Seems pretty tough, but I almost never use any other brand, and so >cannot compare. I used some on the Eduard Pfalz D.III I finished last year. The eduard masks peeled most of the chrome yellow right off the wheel disks. Never had them do that to Humbrol. The *old* Floquil stayed put no matter what. OTOH it did that to your lungs and liver too.... Shane ******************************** My Strine is a Toad in Disguise ******************************** _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:34:27 -0000 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: <007901c2cbdc$cac8dc00$d8465451@netcabo.pt> Martín, Good overall colour for MVR 425/17 I'd go for Piriquita though (local brand of thinners, very rich in colour and in taste) ;-) Pedro ----- From: Martin Héctor AFFLITTO ECHAGÜE To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 11:00 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Thinning Gunze Paint > OOps, I made a mistake!!!!! > > Sorry!!!! > > I would like to solve the paint with cabernet sauvignone > Hummmm Ummmm!!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martin Héctor AFFLITTO ECHAGÜE" > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 7:40 PM > Subject: [WWI] Re: Thinning Gunze Paint > > > > Mis queridos amigos de la lista están cada vez mas Nuts!!1( Locos ) > > Doy un pequeño ejemplo > > > > > I've > > > > heard from Russian modelers that the best thinner for Gunze acrylics > > > > (I guess these are called "Gunze Sangyo") is vodka. Seriously. > > > > > > Wonder if White Lightnin' would do ;-) > > > sp > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:43:01 -0000 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: Re: Worth a look on Hotwash.... Message-ID: <008d01c2cbdd$fd471420$d8465451@netcabo.pt> Michael, so you apply the goache to all the panels in one go. I was thinking you would mask, apply the goache, leave to dry and then repeat on an adjacent panel, so that there would be some variation in the application of the gouache. I'll give it a try and will report on it when time comes. Thanks Pedro > Pedro: > > No masking is necessary. > 1. Paint/spray base wood colour. > 2. Mask off and spray or hand brush lighter panels (I handbrush). > 3. Add goache watercolur with Q-tip. > 4. Spray Tamiya Clear Yellow. > 5. Handbrush Future. > > If yo need to mask after that, then you can mask the Future covered surface. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:48:01 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Brian Kirby To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Stupid email.... Message-ID: <20030203234801.92294.qmail@web14806.mail.yahoo.com> --- Shane Weier wrote: > Already there, just posting a few from work while I > make sure everything > works - but whereas hotmail looks a little like a > work screen from the > bosses office, Yahoo looks like I'm goofing off - > true but ya don't want the > boss to know ;-) You can change your colors on Yahoo! and everything. Try the khaki... :) Sean ===== www.pitpass.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:49:20 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Brian Kirby To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Stupid email.... Message-ID: <20030203234920.97557.qmail@web14803.mail.yahoo.com> --- Shane Weier wrote: > http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies > - What's on at your local cinema? This bit helps me none at all. I'd have to move. :p Sean ===== www.pitpass.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:51:59 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Brian Kirby To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Stupid email.... Message-ID: <20030203235159.62731.qmail@web14811.mail.yahoo.com> --- Crawford vonlinke wrote: > BTW, very nice on-topic stuff in the IM issue. A > scratchbuilt 1/72nd Wright Flyer by Joel Christy, > and > George Peat's "Monitor", (Who are these blokes and > are > they on this list?)plus all the in-the-box reviews. Ah-HA! So, things such as the Wright Flyer ARE "OT" (as opposed to "ot"). Had been wondering about this. Especially since there was a recent post that muddied the waters. Thanks - for the clarification... :) Sean ===== www.pitpass.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:54:40 EST From: Morg17ms@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Tom Bell's Albatros Message-ID: --part1_aa.17cd3b21.2b705b40_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom - if you are out there, how did you do the great job on coloring the exhaust? Tom Morgan --part1_aa.17cd3b21.2b705b40_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom - if you are out there, how did you do the great job on coloring the exhaust?

Tom Morgan --part1_aa.17cd3b21.2b705b40_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:53:59 -0600 From: BRENT THEOBALD To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Tough paints... was Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: <186fc618584e.18584e186fc6@icomcast.net> Howdy! Lance, I figure Floquil is just like Testers now. I usually give it a coat of Future before washes. Sometimes I like to take risks and forego the Future with the predictable results. D'oh! Perhaps Floquil now has the same UV resistance the Testers line does? HTH, YMMV and all that rot... :-) Later! Brent ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance Krieg Date: Monday, February 3, 2003 4:50 pm Subject: [WWI] Tough paints... was Thinning Gunze Paint > Brent and Shane wrangle over the toughest paint, which leads me to > ask: > Where do you guys stand on the relative toughness of Floquil? > > When it was lacquer-based, I fell into the habit of using it all the > time; now it is merely another enamel, and my loyalty may be out- > dated. > Seems pretty tough, but I almost never use any other brand, and so > cannot compare. > > Opinions? > > TIA > Lance > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:00:22 EST From: Morg17ms@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Tony Bell Message-ID: <10d.1f408792.2b705c96@aol.com> --part1_10d.1f408792.2b705c96_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony - NOT 'Tom' - you Tony, me Tom (idiot) - SORRY! Tom Morgan --part1_10d.1f408792.2b705c96_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony - NOT 'Tom' - you Tony, me Tom (idiot) - SORRY!
Tom Morgan --part1_10d.1f408792.2b705c96_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:06:19 -0500 From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Tough paints... Message-ID: <4FC3CB5D.5C0D01BA.000121E7@aol.com> Pedro writes: < I do a great deal of my painting with gloss paints, so I have some experience with them but mask lifting is always a stressful occasion. > Someone (I apologize, I have forgotten who) recently mentioned that he runs a little Future into the edge of the masking tape to reduce paint bleed. I have been thinking that one of the reasons the tape lifts the paint is because I feel I have to rub it down so hard to reduce bleed - perhaps this tip would permit a gentler application of the tape. I think I will try a ship-type zig zag camo pattern on the wings some old airliner model as an experiment/to practice :-) Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 10:06:42 +1000 From: "Shane Weier" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: Brent >Upon reconsideration I have discovered that I may never have masked >over X-tra Colour. When I stated X-tra Colour was "tough" I meant in >regard to washes Ahhh, then I agree. Xtracolour and Humbrol will both shrug off oil based washes so long as a "hot" thinner isn't used. Errormaster or Modelmaster won't survive as well, and in fact I use that fragility when doing streaky dope finishes to allow me to rework the olive without disturbing the Humbrol CDL. OTOH *in my experience* Xtracolour will chip and scratch in situations where Humbrol won't Shane ******************************** My Strine is a Toad in Disguise ******************************** _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 10:08:02 +1000 From: "Shane Weier" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: Martin says: >OOps, I made a mistake!!!!! > >Sorry!!!! > >I would like to solve the paint with cabernet sauvignone >Hummmm Ummmm!!! Oh yes - first you tell us we're all nuts and then try to soothe us with cab-sav. Works for me :-) Shane ******************************** My Strine is a Toad in Disguise ******************************** _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 10:25:45 +1000 From: "Shane Weier" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Thinning Gunze Paint Message-ID: Pedro says: >I think it's probably because Extracolours are gloss. Yes, quite possibly. But..... >The tape sticks to >gloss much stronger than to flat. ...how does that relate to the fact that my gloss Humbrols *don't* come away when masked? I think thatt he Humbrol paint is "bitier" and gets a better grip to begin with. >This is where using cellulose thinners to >thin the paint will probably help since the bite of the thinners on the >plastic will foster paint adhesion. Well, I can't use cellulose thinners contaiing xylene because it's rated a hazmat here and I don't have sufficient causeto be allowed to use it. However, lacquer thinners are hotter than the usual mineral turps and do a pretty good job. >I do a great deal of my painting with gloss paints, >so I have some experience with them but mask lifting is always a >stressful >occasion. I cannot recall *ever* lifting Humbrol paint with masking tape though I use exclusively Tamiya tape which is relatively low tack. Nevertheless removing masking *is* scary because of the possibility there's some paint crept under, or an unnoticed gap or inaccurate alignment. One other comment since this is originally a thread about *Gunze* I use at *least* ten different brands of model paints in enamel, lacquer, acrylic and latex, watercolour paints and pencils and artists oil paints. However *mainly* Humbrol, with the others because I want a particular colour or characteristic. Shane ******************************** My Strine is a Toad in Disguise ******************************** _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4977 **********************