WWI Digest 4935 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Wright flyer by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 2) Re: slightly off-topic but still very early aeroplane by "Michael Kendix" 3) RE: Dropped one by "Clemente Balladares" 4) Re: augered in, argued out by Ken Schmitt 5) Re: Dropped one by "Diego Fernetti" 6) Finding Flaws After Painting by tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) 7) RE: Dropped one by "Pedro N. Soares" 8) Re: markings by Ken Schmitt 9) Re: Dropped one by "Steven Perry" 10) RE: Finding Flaws After Painting by "Pedro N. Soares" 11) Re: Dropped one by tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) 12) Re: Albatros kits - DI and DII by "Michael Kendix" 13) Re: does anyone lick their decals? by Ken Schmitt 14) Re: Finding Flaws After Painting by "Steven Perry" 15) Re: Finding Flaws After Painting by tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) 16) RE: Finding Flaws After Painting by Crawford Neil 17) RE: Albatros kits - DI and DII (Pt.1) by Shane & Lorna Jenkins 18) Re: does anyone lick their decals? by "Diego Fernetti" 19) RE: Finding Flaws After Painting by "Clemente Balladares" 20) Re: Dropped one by "Steven Perry" 21) RE: Dropped one by "Diego Fernetti" 22) Re: Finding Flaws After Painting by "Diego Fernetti" 23) Re: does anyone lick their decals? by "Clemente Balladares" 24) Re: Dropped one by "Diego Fernetti" 25) Re: Dropped one by "Steven Perry" 26) RE: Dropped one by "Pedro N. Soares" 27) Re: Dropped one by "Diego Fernetti" 28) Re: OT Synchronicity by Volker Haeusler 29) Re: Eindecker wings - total confusion... by Volker Haeusler ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:42:49 -0600 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: Subject: Re: Wright flyer Message-ID: There is also a 1/20 (20" wingspan) stick-and-tissue kit put out by Easy Built Models and sold at the Smithsonian gift shop; probably at other locations also. Paul -----Original Message----- From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of Ken Schmitt Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:27 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] Re: Wright flyer Michael: Didn't Glencoe also do one in 48? Not teasing about scale but speculating.... > 1/72nd scale Renwal > 1/16th scale Hasegawa > > What about others? Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:43:44 +0000 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: slightly off-topic but still very early aeroplane Message-ID: Ross: His business is in boxes in his basement and on his pc. It's a simple thing. However, he's moving house shortly from Virginia to North Carolina so I think things will be a little impacted. You can email him - the address is on his web site. Michael >From: "Ross & Wendy Moorhouse" >Reply-To: wwi@wwi-models.org >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WWI] Re: slightly off-topic but still very early aeroplane >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:48:20 -0500 (EST) > >That's good news that he is getting better. Has he re-opened his >business at all? > >Cheers > >Ross > >-----Original Message----- >From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org] On Behalf Of >Michael Kendix >Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 2:34 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WWI] Re: slightly off-topic but still very early aeroplane > >Ross: > >Yes, of course, I have nothing I'd rather do:). > >Actually, Bob Wheeler was considering doing one in a vac kit but >obviously >that won't be happening any time soon. Bob emailed me today and said >he >was doing OK but he's not 100% yet so it's going to be a while before >he's >back in full swing mode. > >Michael > > >From: "Ross & Wendy Moorhouse" > > > >You know you want to get the plastic card out and start from scratch. > >;-) You can do it. Then make use this as a master so we can all have a > >resin Wright Flyer. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:44:25 -0400 From: "Clemente Balladares" To: Subject: RE: Dropped one Message-ID: <2B1249EB720E7141B18BB3F151C8E9F024D697@correo.marn.gov.ve> Steven In general look very nice your job. I place the complete rigging at the end, ummm ..you started the internal ones before fit the planes. Interesting! My Br14B2 of Esquad Br107 is already painted, still waiting the arrival of decals (they are safe in Florida, after the trip from Canada). Cheers Clemente -----Mensaje original----- De: Steven Perry [mailto:sperry03@tampabay.rr.com] Enviado el: Martes, 21 de Enero de 2003 09:22 a.m. Para: Multiple recipients of list Asunto: [WWI] Dropped one I dropped my half rigged Merlin Breguet Br.14b2. It was done as a 96th Aero Squadron machine. I was putting it in a case for safe keeping while I was going to work on one of the other two under construction. Augered straight into my steel toed boot. It made a sick crunch sound. I made a loud explectiave sound(s). The damage is rather more extensive than I care to fool with at this point. I've dropped 'em, fixed 'em and then won contests with 'em. BTDT. This one would never even be taken to the model club much less see a contest table, so I see no point in wasting time repairing it now. I was attempting a triple build that has turned into a three pronged build from hell. At least this is the one that I was keeping, the other two are for my RCW friend I build for. All in all I'm more relieved than mad. Life is short and plastic copious, onward and upward. Photo at: http://home.tampabay.rr.com/sperry03/crash.jpg sp **************************************************************************** ************************************** There is something inherently warped about a society that forces it's modelers to work for a living. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:53:20 -0600 From: Ken Schmitt To: Subject: Re: augered in, argued out Message-ID: sp! > All in all I'm more relieved than mad. Life is short and plastic copious, > onward and upward. It looks beautiful! When you think about it... It is still the same kit as before.... 90% of the work is finished. tbd: un-rig attch wings re-rig touch up. don't hit me. It's a damn good Breuget. best- Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:48:28 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Dropped one Message-ID: Steve! >I dropped my half rigged Merlin Breguet Br.14b2. -snip- >Photo at: http://home.tampabay.rr.com/sperry03/crash.jpg Yikes! I feel very sorry for this crash. Hope the small crew members may have survived. BTW what's that part over the lower wing roundel? I can't figure out what's that... D. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:41:30 -0600 (CST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Finding Flaws After Painting Message-ID: <200301211341.h0LDfUu57522@king1.kingsnake.com> How do others on the list deal with flaws found after a coat of paint is down? Do you strip the paint, fix the flaw and start over? Or is there some magical putty I don't know about that helps fix these flaws? Yea, I know I should find the flaws before painting, but even with careful checking I still miss a few. Sometimes modeling can be such a big pain! Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:56:33 -0000 From: "Pedro N. Soares" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Dropped one Message-ID: <12AEB3D996DDD311B98A00508B6D75B30292CA49@TUFAO> Steve, As Ken said, damn good Breguet. Take a break , don't even look at it for a day. Get on with it tomorrow. Seemsquite "restorable". > > ************************************************************** > ************** > ************************************** > There is something inherently warped about a society that forces it's > modelers to work for a living. Where do we go to sign the petition? Pedor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:01:00 -0600 From: Ken Schmitt To: Subject: Re: markings Message-ID: Many thanks, Shane, Mike and Bob. > There are some photos of SE5a's showing the various unit markings in the > Windsock SE5/SE5a Squadrons Special Datafile, the aforementioned Air-Britain > book. I have the former and scrutinized the latter at a local plastic pusher. What I have not had up to this point: Text from Roden and expansion on that from such as Mr. Kavanaugh, Mr. Pearson and Mr. Weier. Again, thank you, guys. This is one for the files. (have a Blue Max SE to complete!) = ) Ken btw: Sq leaders letters varied as I understand it. Bishop's 85 Sq SE was 'Z', McCudden's were each, 'G' and '6', Mick's was 'A' - Perhaps he was a Duke Ellington fan... The book Bob illustrated discusses this as does the df. Sq. letters seemed to be assigned by sq. prefs rather than uniformity, as per above. Flight color(s) assigns seem more typical and uniform. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:02:47 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Dropped one Message-ID: <001501c2c155$c737d0a0$65a8a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> BTW what's that part over the lower wing roundel? I can't figure Stbd U/C strut and Axle wing with view hole and crossed internal bracing wires. sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:59:51 -0000 From: "Pedro N. Soares" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Finding Flaws After Painting Message-ID: <12AEB3D996DDD311B98A00508B6D75B30292CA4C@TUFAO> Matt, IMHO, ost of the times it's only us who do it who know it's there, so most of the times I forget about it and go on with the show. Still if it's a big flaw I try to sand it away and repaint. Sometimes this means painting the ful section, of course. P > -----Original Message----- > From: tbittners@sprintmail.com [mailto:tbittners@sprintmail.com] > Sent: terça-feira, 21 de Janeiro de 2003 13:58 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Finding Flaws After Painting > > > > How do others on the list deal with flaws found after a coat > of paint is > down? > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:48:42 -0600 (CST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Dropped one Message-ID: <200301211348.h0LDmg457680@king1.kingsnake.com> > I feel very sorry for this crash. Hope the small crew members may have > survived. BTW what's that part over the lower wing roundel? I can't figure > out what's that... Looks like a wheel and part of the rest of the landing gear and struts. Sorry to hear about it, sp. Cripes, life stinks sometimes, doesn't it? Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:02:18 +0000 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Albatros kits - DI and DII Message-ID: >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:12:27 +0100 >From: a.casirati@lombardiacom.it >To: wwi@wwi-models.org > >What’s the List opinion about Roden’s kits of the above named a/c ? I built the Oeffag D.II - it's a fine kit - the build is in Internet Modeler in 2002 some time. Michael _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:05:47 -0600 From: Ken Schmitt To: Subject: Re: does anyone lick their decals? Message-ID: ...some people just cannot self-edit: Regarding SE 5a markings...Elliot Springs had a rather large 'T' all over his mount, IIRC. One wonders what that stood for. Ken, whistling, innocent n' all. OT, CT and OTFW ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:08:35 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Finding Flaws After Painting Message-ID: <001b01c2c156$96a466a0$65a8a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> > How do others on the list deal with flaws found after a coat of paint is > down? Do you strip the paint, fix the flaw and start over? Or is there > some magical putty I don't know about that helps fix these flaws? I sand it down, fill with CA if needed and re-sand. Next I use 4000 grit foam backed abrasive pads to wet polish and feather into the existing paint. Finaly I repaint the area. Your A.2 is CDL & yellow, which is basically like a primed model, so I wouldn't strip it, just fix the ommediate problems and re spary the affected areas. > Yea, I know I should find the flaws before painting, but even with careful > checking I still miss a few. When I get it down to "just a few" I'll be one happy modeler ;-) > Sometimes modeling can be such a big pain! My wife says we deserve it. sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:54:05 -0600 (CST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Finding Flaws After Painting Message-ID: <200301211354.h0LDs5p58187@king1.kingsnake.com> Pedro Spake: > IMHO, ost of the times it's only us who do it who know it's there, so most > of the times I forget about it and go on with the show. Still if it's a big > flaw I try to sand it away and repaint. Sometimes this means painting the > ful section, of course. True, so true. A few of the smaller ones I'm not really worried about - like where the "struts" for the tail fit into the fuselage on the SPAD. I drilled completely through on these and used .010 round sprue. Unfortunately the holes I cut were too large, and while I filled them a couple of small spots didn't come out. I wonder if what I do with armor would work here - try to make it look like dirt instead of the modeling flaw. ;-) Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:07:50 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Finding Flaws After Painting Message-ID: I reckon the first 2 or 3 coats of paint don't count at all, by the the 4th I reckon to have finished puttying and sanding. And if I still find flaws, well then just stiff upper lip and more putty! /Neil C. > > How do others on the list deal with flaws found after a coat > of paint is > down? Do you strip the paint, fix the flaw and start over? > Or is there > some magical putty I don't know about that helps fix these flaws? > > Yea, I know I should find the flaws before painting, but even > with careful > checking I still miss a few. > > Sometimes modeling can be such a big pain! > > > Matt Bittner > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:16:53 +1100 From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Albatros kits - DI and DII (Pt.1) Message-ID: <3E2D5655.E4A90ED6@tac.com.au> "Pedro N. Soares" wrote: > > Naw, he'll be ok, so long as he has his Mithril on ;-þ > > > > No way, mates. They don't make XXXXL Mithril shirts. Guess his only > protection will be his mighty Toad Poal! > > :-) > > Pedro (Austin Ball and all that) You know what makes this even worse was that I was on the phone with a "Riverside Scale Modeller" when this came in & we both cracked up ;-þ StY Staaken, Iron Duke, Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:08:36 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: does anyone lick their decals? Message-ID: Ken "Blue Max" Schmitt wrote: >Regarding SE 5a markings...Elliot Springs had a rather large 'T' all over >his mount, IIRC. >One wonders what that stood for. TOAD!!!!!!! sorryicanresist! D. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:08:35 -0400 From: "Clemente Balladares" To: Subject: RE: Finding Flaws After Painting Message-ID: <2B1249EB720E7141B18BB3F151C8E9F024D698@correo.marn.gov.ve> Matt Sometimes, when the problem is not so big, and in the place of decals, is possible to coated and continue the job. But very important sections of wings and fuselage have to be painted again, after proper protection of the rest (Tamiya tape and/or maskol). When it happen I usually cover with paper, and use my doble action airbrush ...very carefully. Take care to preserve the same mixture and tone of paint. Yes, sometimes is a big $@/##!!?##$- but most of times deserve the effort :) Cheers Clement -----Mensaje original----- De: Matt Bittner [mailto:tbittners@sprintmail.com] Enviado el: Martes, 21 de Enero de 2003 09:58 a.m. Para: Multiple recipients of list Asunto: [WWI] Finding Flaws After Painting How do others on the list deal with flaws found after a coat of paint is down? Do you strip the paint, fix the flaw and start over? Or is there some magical putty I don't know about that helps fix these flaws? Yea, I know I should find the flaws before painting, but even with careful checking I still miss a few. Sometimes modeling can be such a big pain! Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:17:13 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Dropped one Message-ID: <002901c2c157$cba07000$65a8a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> > > Sorry to hear about it, sp. Cripes, life stinks sometimes, doesn't it? Drounding my problems in resin. I took an HR Nie.24 and assembled it through the wings, tail & U/C struts in place. I'm going to swish a brush of CDL inside the cockpit and stick a painted pilot figure in it so I didn't do any interior detail. All the seams are derssed and it's ready to paint. I'm breaking down and buying ink cartriges for my printer and one of those overpriced ink jet decal kits and try to make up some of those cool RCW "demon brandishing a vodka bottle" markings for it. The Breguet will go in the "boneyard", a drawer that holds the salvagable remnants of my former collection. It will get fixed one day, but not soon. :-) sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:17:15 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Dropped one Message-ID: The Lusitanian wrote: >Where do we go to sign the petition? >Pedor Something about this bussiness smells bad... D. (I know, no one will get this joke but Martín,Clemente,Gabriel and P.) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:14:27 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Finding Flaws After Painting Message-ID: Matt asks: >How do others on the list deal with flaws found after a coat of paint is >down? Do you strip the paint, fix the flaw and start over? Or is there >some magical putty I don't know about that helps fix these flaws? Some flaws require sanding/putty/sanding/polishing/paint again. The worst kind are those smallish but annoying sanding scratched along a lenghty surface (across ribs, turtledecks) These are very noticeable after painting but still quite hard to correct without marring the whole model. >Sometimes modeling can be such a big pain! Ain't that sweet? D. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:15:05 -0400 From: "Clemente Balladares" To: Subject: Re: does anyone lick their decals? Message-ID: <2B1249EB720E7141B18BB3F151C8E9F00CF67C@correo.marn.gov.ve> jiackkkkkk! What a sacrilege! Cheers Clem -----Mensaje original----- De: Diego Fernetti [mailto:d_fernetti@hotmail.com] Enviado el: Martes, 21 de Enero de 2003 10:13 a.m. Para: Multiple recipients of list Asunto: [WWI] Re: does anyone lick their decals? Ken "Blue Max" Schmitt wrote: >Regarding SE 5a markings...Elliot Springs had a rather large 'T' all over >his mount, IIRC. >One wonders what that stood for. TOAD!!!!!!! sorryicanresist! D. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:21:19 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Dropped one Message-ID: Steve! >Stbd U/C strut and Axle wing with view hole and crossed internal bracing >wires. Thanks! I'll be da***ned. The kit still can be saved. Rest for a while, dring a coldie or two and start again. Recalling ole Rudyard: "If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breath a word about your loss..." and you know the rest mon ami! D. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:33:42 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Dropped one Message-ID: <004701c2c15a$18fac420$65a8a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> > Thanks! I'll be da***ned. The kit still can be saved. Rest for a while, > dring a coldie or two and start again. > Recalling ole Rudyard: > > "If you can make one heap of all your winnings > And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, > And lose, and start again at your beginnings > And never breath a word about your loss..." > > and you know the rest mon ami! > D. So true Oh Poet Lauriate of the South OTOH, whingering about it a while is satisfying too ;-) sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:31:37 -0000 From: "Pedro N. Soares" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Dropped one Message-ID: <12AEB3D996DDD311B98A00508B6D75B30292CA8D@TUFAO> Steve, was taking a look again at your Breguet 14 diorama planning storyboard. jpg Did you go for painted tapes on the underside of the wings? Looks quite nice. very subtle yet "present". Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:44:55 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Dropped one Message-ID: Steve! >OTOH, whingering about it a while is satisfying too ;-) And you deserve the privilege after all the hard work! D. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:56:50 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: OT Synchronicity Message-ID: <006201c2c15d$5535be60$0301a8c0@com1> Eric, > I don't have it but I would like to buy the RVHP one. Anybody has some > info about this plane ? I have absolutely no documentation about it. > > Eric > > dave.fleming@dial.pipex.com a écrit: > > > > >Now, anyone built Sierra's 1/72 Gotha GLVII ? > > > >Dave Fleming > > First, if the RVHP model is the same as the unnamed resin I bought (very cheap) in this one small shop in Brno in the Czech Republic when I was working there 5 years ago, it is basically a copy of the Sierra kit (and I believe it is, because that shop also had RVHP´s and HR resins beside those unnamed ones - the unnamed ones were all copies of vac forms or other cottage industry models...) My advice would be to go for the Sierra vac, as it is just simply a better basis for the model. As for documentation, get WW I Aero no´s 104 and 105. Two articles on the G VII, one by a Czech, drawing heavily from material from the Prague Technicke Narodni Museum, the second from Pete Grosz. 30 or so photos in total, good technical description, but no photos of operational GL VII´s (which were used by Bogohl 8, IIRC). I am not aware of any other publication getting anywhere near those two artices indetail... Volker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:16:50 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Eindecker wings - total confusion... Message-ID: <006c01c2c160$1ff27600$0301a8c0@com1> Rob wrote: > In the July 1983 issue of Scale Models, Alex Imrie wrote an article > on the Fokker E.III/IV. > Quote: "New wings of 9.52 meters span were fitted and this produced the > E.III..." and later for the E.IV "A new wing of 10 meters span was fitted > and the forward fuselage strengthened..." > > As an indiation of the dangers of accepting even contemporary measurements, > on Ian Stair's plans in the article we find written..."Span of the E.III is > usually quoted as 9.52 and the E.IV as 10m. Captured aircraft reports give > British 32' 11'' (10.33m) and the French as 10m. This last figure has been > used for this drawing". > > His drawing for the E.III scales to the 9.52m measurement. > > Opposed to this is Peter Grosz who writes in the E.IV minidatafile that > "...the Fokker E.IV had the same wingspan as the less powerful E.III...", > and says that the span of both was 10m. First, thanks to Rob, Ray and Shane (and whomever I might have forgot) for the answers. However, I am by now more confused than before. I did a short comparison myself and found: 1.) Most early publications (like the Scale Models article, the Profile, the Groeschel/stuetzer book on "Deutsche Militaerflugzeuge 1914-1918" etc.) claim the 9.52 vs 10 m span for the E III vs. the E IV 2.) In the Datafile on the E III, the span is given at 10 m. However, the *Stair drawing shows a 9,52 m span* 3.) The Mini Datafile on the E IV claims 10,04 m for the E IV, and this ties up with the drawing. 4.) There *is* a difference in the number of wing ribs in these drawings, with the E III DF drawing showing 12 wing ribs per wing, and the E IV MiniDF showing 13 per wing (add to this one respectively at the wing root - see point 5). 5.) However, on ALL photos where I could find a good depiction of the whole wing, allowing me to count the wing ribs, I found *12 wing ribs for both the E III and the E IV* (just to be sure, that´s *visible* wing ribs, to which you have to add the inner one, which is now visible on drawings or on photos) Just to add to the confusion, the E III wing in the DF also has a deeper wing chord that shown in the technical data or the E IV drawing.... So the only thing that is clear to me at this moment is the fact that this is another case of even the Datafiles being somewhat inaccurate, especially in the drawings. But with the E III and the E IV probably both having the same no of wing ribs, the argument for a similar wingspan seems to win out. However, the number of ribs ties up with the smaller wingspan usually quoted. Then again, the reports on the captured 210/16 clearly confirms the 10 m span... BTW, as we discussed the Science Museum Fokker: There is an *excellent* series of photos in C&C(I) vol 12 no 1. great details of the uncovered aircraft. Oh well - anybody has already checked what span the Eduard Fokkers would have? Volker ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4935 **********************