WWI Digest 4929 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Roden Se5a and Albatros DV by "Pedro N. Soares" 2) Re: brushwork by "Pedro N. Soares" 3) Re:sputin by Ken Schmitt 4) Re: Roden Se5a and Albatros DV by "NEIL EDDY" 5) New Acronym for the List Lexicon was:Re: Re:sputin by "Steven Perry" 6) 免費服務 - 防走數, 避租霸, 免退票, 防寄賣風險 by webmaster@creditanywhere.net 7) Re: New Acronym for the List Lexicon was:Re: Re:sputin by dave.fleming@dial.pipex.com 8) Re: New Acronym for the List Lexicon was:Re: Re:sputin by Crawford Neil 9) Classic manufacturers by Crawford Neil 10) Re: Garros urban myth by "Diego Fernetti" 11) I was a pilot werewolf WAS: Garros urban myth by "Diego Fernetti" 12) RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS: Garros urban myth by Crawford Neil 13) RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS: Garros urban myth by "Pedro N. Soares" 14) RE: Eindecker wings - photography by Crawford Neil 15) St. Harry's book by "Harris, Mack" 16) Fokker book by "Harris, Mack" 17) ot request: two DeHavillands by "Diego Fernetti" 18) Re: Eduard Junkers J.I by grzegorz_mazurowski@poczta.onet.pl 19) Re: Fokker book by janah@att.net 20) =?big5?Q?=AB=CC=AAF=A4H=A4O=BB=C8=A6=E6?= by woodman@att.com.tw 21) RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS: Garros urban myth by RadspadMike@netscape.net 22) Re: Classic manufacturers by grzegorz_mazurowski@poczta.onet.pl 23) Re: Classic manufacturers by pfalzdvii@att.net 24) RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS: Garros urban myth by pfalzdvii@att.net 25) Re: Classic manufacturers by "Michael Kendix" 26) RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS Garros urban myth by "Mark Shannon" 27) Russian Aeroplanes book by tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) 28) Re: Russian Aeroplanes book by Zulis@aol.com 29) RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS Garros urban myth by Ray 30) Re: Russian Aeroplanes book by tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) 31) More on urban legends-Navarre by Ray 32) Re: New Acronym for the List Lexicon was:Re: Re:sputin by Ray 33) Re: Weekend by Morg17ms@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:14:18 -0000 From: "Pedro N. Soares" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Roden Se5a and Albatros DV Message-ID: <12AEB3D996DDD311B98A00508B6D75B3028FBDD3@TUFAO> > > Which, incidentally, makes the J.1 a strange diversion. Just > > who will be > > buying it. > > Me probably Me will too. It looks cool. > >Have you seen the price? well, it'll not be a priority, but I'm sure one day I'll get me one.... P. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:18:17 -0000 From: "Pedro N. Soares" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: brushwork Message-ID: <12AEB3D996DDD311B98A00508B6D75B3028FBDEC@TUFAO> > Long story, bad memories of the sangria returning to the entry hole. I bet you made a friend in the pool's owner ;-) P. > D. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP TOADS: Try the new MicsoftToadFilter 8 and get 2 months TOAD FREE plus a FROG. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:49:23 -0600 From: Ken Schmitt To: Subject: Re:sputin Message-ID: Pedr Toadostrovich Soaraeovich recalls: > IIRC he had already tried > some very curious unorthodox techniques for bringing the opponent's > aircraft down, like tying an anchor with explosives to the end of a rope and > trying to get the anchor to get caught in the opposing aircraft, or tying a > huge knife to the tailskid and trying to cut through the fabric of the > opponent.... sounds like a one of the group! has anyone contacted him to join the list? so what if he's dead. at least he'll post short messages. -Sherman N. Peabody ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:05:51 +1100 From: "NEIL EDDY" To: Subject: Re: Roden Se5a and Albatros DV Message-ID: <003201c2bddd$b9ba1f80$1aca32d2@default> Dave sez..... To get OT, are there any records of cricket matches between British and Connomwealth troops in WW1? I sez...... No but most probably we won them all and probably beat the Kiwis too..... All the Best Neil E (Benaudland) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:09:45 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: New Acronym for the List Lexicon was:Re: Re:sputin Message-ID: <00a801c2bdde$454da120$64a8a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> > Pedr Toadostrovich Soaraeovich recalls: > > > > IIRC he had already tried > > some very curious unorthodox techniques for bringing the opponent's > > aircraft down, like tying an anchor with explosives to the end of a rope and > > trying to get the anchor to get caught in the opposing aircraft, or tying a > > huge knife to the tailskid and trying to cut through the fabric of the > > opponent.... > sounds like a one of the group! > has anyone contacted him to join the list? > > so what if he's dead. > at least he'll post short messages. > > -Sherman N. Peabody OT= On Topic ot = off topic OTW = Off The Wall ;-) And to bring this off the wall and back to OT, we should consider bestowing honorary List Membership on deserving WWI personalities. What constitutes "deserving"? Famous Ace with easy to paint scheme on his plane? Kept a (yet to be discovered) diary with meticulous color notes? First to use the middle finger in combat? Volunteer observers in a Spad A.2 unit? Chain smoking Zepplin captians? Pilots who logged more hours in the cathouse than the cockpit? Of corse we can grandfather in all known modelers. Udet built models and I believe a few others did. sp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:14:35 +0800 From: webmaster@creditanywhere.net To: wwi@mustang.sr.unh.edu Subject: 免費服務 - 防走數, 避租霸, 免退票, 防寄賣風險 Message-ID: <200301170514.h0H5EZ414863@aahk.gem-hk.com> Untitled Document

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------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:55:28 +0000 From: dave.fleming@dial.pipex.com To: Subject: Re: New Acronym for the List Lexicon was:Re: Re:sputin Message-ID: <1042786528.3e27a8e07a3d0@netmail.pipex.net> Quoting Steven Perry : > ;-) > > And to bring this off the wall and back to OT, we should consider > bestowing > honorary List Membership on deserving WWI personalities. > > What constitutes "deserving"? > Famous Ace with easy to paint scheme on his plane? Most of the RFC/Commonwealth ones > Kept a (yet to be discovered) diary with meticulous color notes? > Of corse we can grandfather in all known modelers. Udet built models and > I > believe a few others did. > CPO Barlett (RNAS pilot) mentions building models in his book 'In the teeth of the Wind' How about (at the risk of inflaming Canadian listees - this is meant purely in jest) Billy Bishop for yarn spinnning in true Encyclopedia Fernettica tradition? (ducking & weaving) Dave Fleming ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:17:19 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: New Acronym for the List Lexicon was:Re: Re:sputin Message-ID: How about Mannock, because he was mad! /Neil C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:05:32 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Classic manufacturers Message-ID: The Junkers thread set me thinking about why I think certain aeroplane companies are more classic than others. For some reason a Junkers is a bit special, I think because they were one of the early companies, and made rather advanced planes for their day. Strangely enough I don't rank SPAD as a classic, yet I think Nieuport is (apologies to everyone except Matt and Mike F !) Lockheed is on my list because they have made some pretty advanced stuff, whereas Boeing are older, but have (like SPAD just gone along with the rest). OK I know I'm babbling, is anyone else interested in this subject? Here's my list (without thinking a lot about it) DeHavilland Hawker (Sopwith) Short Nieuport Fokker Junkers Lockheed Curtiss ???? can't decide if they should be on, their end was far from glorious. others??? /Neil C. (Northern version) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:11:21 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Garros urban myth Message-ID: Bucky! >"To die trying to save the Japanese race would >have made me happier than anything I could have accomplished alive." Well for us foreigners is quite difficult to understand this mind set, so related with the samurai ethics, but hwat made it worth was the complete detachment of the self for the good of the ideal or in this case as Konada San told you, for saving the Japanese race. They truly believed that their sacrifice would have saved Nippon in the war. Unlike islamist sacrifice, a warrior's death has a different sense of last resource and honour. Well I'll step down the soapbox now and resume my usual nonsense D. Naglo and all that stuff. I'll be pleased to keep the topic but offlist, please! :-) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:42:00 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: I was a pilot werewolf WAS: Garros urban myth Message-ID: Mike the K. wrote: >(I'm reminded of a French pilot that was rumored to be a werewolf or >somesuch . . . took to running wild in the woods for days on a periodic >basis) I quote: " Sous-Lieutnant Guillaume Andr Lechien (1892/1917): Born in somewhere in the city of Lyon, the young Guillaume was an orphan boy who was found to be raised and fed by a pack of streetdogs in the suburbs of the town of Crepesuzette. Later he was under the care of the Friars of St. Pepperine but he never left some strange habits he learned as a child, like sleeping in door thresholds or feeding from trashcans. Since the young Guillaume was becoming sort of a nuisance for the religious men, they sent him to the army recruitment office when war broke that summer of 1914. Guillaume had a singular speech defect: spoke the sweet language of Moli廨e like he was barking with his raspy voice. The Army saw conditions in him and sent the man to the Officer's School Here he became more used to refined habits, and six months later it was rare to see him with his tongue hanging out of his mouth. He was finally destined to a pilot's training school. He liked flying a lot and because he was so happy doing it, couldn't stop wagging his tail. His instructor thought that this may save the life of his pupil if someone was shooting at him someday and conceded the coveted pilot brevet. In combat, he was reckless and excelled at dogfights. But while in the ground he was a handful. He had the ugly habit of climbing to the furniture with dirty feet and drink from the toilet water. In a murky afternoon of the winter of 1917, he ran to catch a stick that a escadrille mate threw, but never saw the truck coming on the road." Excerpt from Enciclopaedia Fernetica, Tome CCLVI, Appendix XCVIII,Page -4 D. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:52:53 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS: Garros urban myth Message-ID: ROTFH (rolling on the floor howling) You always know when there is a deathly silence on the list, that something is welling up in the deep south! /Neil C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:58:40 -0000 From: "Pedro N. Soares" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS: Garros urban myth Message-ID: <12AEB3D996DDD311B98A00508B6D75B3028FC275@TUFAO> D. I rest my case. No need to fight me. The Prize is yours! Pedro (RONTFL&Owling in Chorus with Northern Neil) > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:31:21 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Eindecker wings - photography Message-ID: > I am planning more photographic expeditions in my next break periods, > the Brussels Museum is very tempting with its WW1 and other contents. > Is there something more I should bring than a powerful flash and > a wide-angle lense for use in close quarters, do I need to apply > for a permit in advance? Nothing special as I remember, I used a flash, my only grouch was I couldn't get close enough to the Spad, but can one ever? > When it gets a bit warmer in Northern Europe, Helsinki might > be another > possiblity to spend some frequent flyer miles. The Finnish Air Force museum has some very interesting stuff, wish I could go there. They have a Gordeu-Lasseure nearly OT fighter, isn't there a Martinsyde up there too? /Neil C. (now planning a botanical raid on your home country Knut-Erik) > > > Eders > Knut Erik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:07:50 -0600 From: "Harris, Mack" To: "World War I (E-mail)" Subject: St. Harry's book Message-ID: Just did a search on Addall and it seems St. Harry's book is available if anyone is interested. I know it's online now, but if you want a real copy of the book here it is. Click on link, then search for Scale Model Aircraft in Plastic Card http://used.addall.com/ Good luck Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:24:49 -0600 From: "Harris, Mack" To: "World War I (E-mail)" Subject: Fokker book Message-ID: Sorry, I'm not really trying to sell books, but just got an email on this book, price seems pretty good, but I haven't seen this book before so I can't speak to whether it's a good deal or not. My own book budget is a little thin currently. http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cgi?cpid=2736134&domain_id=1856&meta_id=1& ad=15421 Good luck to anyone interested. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:02:34 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: ot request: two DeHavillands Message-ID: Slow days in listland.... I'll take advantage of the few poeple online today. Has anyone any comment or the URL of a build review of the Airfix Tiger Moth or the Airfix Mosquito? Please contact me offlist D. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:04:58 +0100 From: grzegorz_mazurowski@poczta.onet.pl To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Eduard Junkers J.I Message-ID: I think it will sell very well. 'cause Junkers is Junkers, everybody knows Junkers, even if it is OT, doesn't matter. Also it looks really cool. BTW, who except Matt and Gronczewski heard about something like "Hun Riot"??? ;-) Cheers! G. ***************r-e-k-l-a-m-a************** Chcesz oszcz璠zi na kosztach obs逝gi bankowej ? mBIZNES - konto dla firm http://epieniadze.onet.pl/mbiznes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:16:39 +0000 From: janah@att.net To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Fokker book Message-ID: <20030117161639.JOMY9286.mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc08> It is part of the Vintage Warbirds Series from Arms and Armour Press. Imrie wrote the Fokker book and one on German Aces of WWI. Both are highly recommended. Cyg > Sorry, I'm not really trying to sell books, but just got an email on this > book, price seems pretty good, but I haven't seen this book before so I > can't speak to whether it's a good deal or not. My own book budget is a > little thin currently. > http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cgi?cpid=2736134&domain_id=1856&meta_id=1& > ad=15421 > > Good luck to anyone interested. > Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:28:08 -0500 (EST) From: woodman@att.com.tw To: woodman@att.com.tw Subject: =?big5?Q?=AB=CC=AAF=A4H=A4O=BB=C8=A6=E6?= Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_CWrfWYUl7Ct2n3zuwBRMo0f7a3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_CWrfWYUl7Ct2n3zuwBRMo0f7a3AA" ------=_NextPart_CWrfWYUl7Ct2n3zuwBRMo0f7a3AA Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQoNCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50 PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9YmlnNSI+DQo8bWV0YSBuYW1lPSJHRU5FUkFUT1IiIGNvbnRl bnQ9Ik1pY3Jvc29mdCBGcm9udFBhZ2UgNC4wIj4NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9IlByb2dJZCIgY29udGVu dD0iRnJvbnRQYWdlLkVkaXRvci5Eb2N1bWVudCI+DQo8dGl0bGU+p9qtzKjDtUyl9KbzwOenUTwv dGl0bGU+DQo8L2hlYWQ+DQoNCjxib2R5Pg0KDQo8cCBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj6n2q3MqMO1TKX0 pvPA56dRoUGmcKpHs3mmqLF6qrqneMJaoUGn2q3Mt1Co7KtEsWCp6rpwoUM8YnI+DQqlu6+4tKOo 0ahEwr6qzCA8Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0iI0ZGMDAwMCI+PGI+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iNSI+IDE1LDAwMDwv Zm9udD48L2I+IA0KPC9mb250PiCt06R1p0C+97d8ISE8YnI+DQq0o6jRqESkfjxiPjxmb250IHNp emU9IjUiIGNvbG9yPSIjRkYwMDAwIj4xOLhVpmg8L2ZvbnQ+PC9iPrWnwLO8eKRIpH646q7Grnch ISZuYnNwOzxicj4NCjxicj4NCjxmb250IHNpemU9IjQiPqvMqkakSKRPu8im5jwvZm9udD48YnI+ DQo8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd29vZG1hbi5hdHQuY29tLnR3Ij5odHRwOi8vd29vZG1hbi5hdHQu Y29tLnR3PC9hPjxicj4NCjxicj4NCrTBseaxeq/gpkCmUKywp9qtzKrAt3ylord+pEikZrrJpECl 96TfpE88YnI+DQo8YnI+DQp+fiCkXb3QwuCxSLW5sXq7e6ywprO73a1uqrqqQqTNICEhIH5+IDwv cD4NCg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KDQo8L2h0bWw+ ------=_NextPart_CWrfWYUl7Ct2n3zuwBRMo0f7a3AA-- ------=_NextPart_CWrfWYUl7Ct2n3zuwBRMo0f7a3-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:41:29 -0500 From: RadspadMike@netscape.net To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS: Garros urban myth Message-ID: <3D41FD90.5CE63371.3E0364A1@netscape.net> D. LOL! The Encyclopaedia Fernitica is amazing in it's grasp of historical fact. I later went to the books and found I was thinking of Jean Navarre, whose exploits are described in Claud W. Sykes' "French War Birds". Flying a Maurice Farman, he attacked a Taube I with an antiquated musket. He flew along side the German plane and, this being early in the war before aerial hostilities began, the German pilot waved a greeting. Jean fired the musket in reply, doing no damage but frustrating himself that he couldn't shoot down his enemies. Didn't do much for the idea that the "knights of the air" on both sides shared a mutual respect, either. FWIW, Mike Kavanaugh "Diego Fernetti" wrote: >Mike the K. wrote: >>(I'm reminded of a French pilot that was rumored to be a werewolf or >>somesuch . . . took to running wild in the woods for days on a periodic >>basis) > >I quote: >" Sous-Lieutnant Guillaume Andr Lechien (1892/1917): Born in somewhere in >the city of Lyon, the young Guillaume was an orphan boy who was found to be >raised and fed by a pack of streetdogs in the suburbs of the town of >Crepesuzette. Later he was under the care of the Friars of St. Pepperine but >he never left some strange habits he learned as a child, like sleeping in >door thresholds or feeding from trashcans. >Since the young Guillaume was becoming sort of a nuisance for the religious >men, they sent him to the army recruitment office when war broke that summer >of 1914. Guillaume had a singular speech defect: spoke the sweet language of >Moli廨e like he was barking with his raspy voice. The Army saw conditions in >him and sent the man to the Officer's School Here he became more used to >refined habits, and six months later it was rare to see him with his tongue >hanging out of his mouth. He was finally destined to a pilot's training >school. He liked flying a lot and because he was so happy doing it, couldn't >stop wagging his tail. His instructor thought that this may save the life of >his pupil if someone was shooting at him someday and conceded the coveted >pilot brevet. >In combat, he was reckless and excelled at dogfights. But while in the >ground he was a handful. He had the ugly habit of climbing to the furniture >with dirty feet and drink from the toilet water. In a murky afternoon of the >winter of 1917, he ran to catch a stick that a escadrille mate threw, but >never saw the truck coming on the road." >Excerpt from Enciclopaedia Fernetica, Tome CCLVI, Appendix XCVIII,Page -4 >D. > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:20:19 +0100 From: grzegorz_mazurowski@poczta.onet.pl To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Classic manufacturers Message-ID: DeHavilland for sure. Junkers and Fokker too. Lockheed. Maybe MiG? Tupolev? Morane definitely. Mitsubishi? G. ***************r-e-k-l-a-m-a************** Chcesz oszcz璠zi na kosztach obs逝gi bankowej ? mBIZNES - konto dla firm http://epieniadze.onet.pl/mbiznes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:35:50 +0000 From: pfalzdvii@att.net To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Classic manufacturers Message-ID: <20030117193555.PFKA12483.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc17> Curtis, at least for the OT period. Glen Curtis did more to advance the art of flying after 1908 than the Wright brothers did after 1905. He 'invented' the 'flying boat' concept. -- Merrill Anderson > DeHavilland for sure. > Junkers and Fokker too. > Lockheed. > Maybe MiG? Tupolev? > > Morane definitely. > > Mitsubishi? > > G. > > > ***************r-e-k-l-a-m-a************** > > Chcesz oszcz璠zi na kosztach obs逝gi bankowej ? > mBIZNES - konto dla firm > http://epieniadze.onet.pl/mbiznes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:45:58 +0000 From: pfalzdvii@att.net To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS: Garros urban myth Message-ID: <20030117194603.PMXN12483.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc17> According to all the accounts I have read, Navarre was no "sportsman". He was known for (and bragged about) following an enemy plane down to make sure the crew was dead, and strafing them if they weren't. Many of the other fliers thought he was nuts, and IIRC, he died in an asylum. FWIW -- Merrill Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:56:21 +0000 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Classic manufacturers Message-ID: Sikorsky - massive range of types - from thevery small to the very, very large. The Ilya Mourametz was sort of years beyond its time and fairly hard to bring down by all accounts. Michael >From: pfalzdvii@att.net >Curtis, at least for the OT period. >-- >Merrill Anderson > > DeHavilland for sure. > > Junkers and Fokker too. > > Lockheed. > > Maybe MiG? Tupolev? > > > > Morane definitely. > > > > Mitsubishi? > > > > G. > > > > > > ***************r-e-k-l-a-m-a************** > > > > Chcesz oszcz璠zi na kosztach obs逝gi bankowej ? > > mBIZNES - konto dla firm > > http://epieniadze.onet.pl/mbiznes _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:19:35 -0600 From: "Mark Shannon" To: Subject: RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS Garros urban myth Message-ID: I read one version that gave him an even more unusual twist to his end. It may contain some truth, or all be a legend. Navarre was wounded in the head, which precipitated or exacerbated his very bizarre behavior to where he was institutionalized. At the end of the war, to celebrate the victory, the heros were to be featured in displays and parades on the Champs Elysees and above it. Navarre had improved enough that they brought him out to be part of the fly-by and to give an acrobatic demonstration as the 'Hawk of Verdun.' In the practice and rehearsals, however, he misjudged and crashed, fatally. One version even has it that he was trying to fly through the Arc de Triomphe. Another version has that Garros was the one who crashed. My understanding was that Garros escaped after his initial capture that gave his plane over for inspection to the Germans. He returned to flying, but the war in the air had changed too much in his absence and he was shot down relatively quickly. Depending on the reference, either fatally, or to be captured and die in pow prison of typhus or the influenza. Considering how many gaps in the descriptions of aces, and how many of the pilot's stories end at the end of WWI, it can be very difficult to figure out what references are correct. It has taken years for the 'truth' of Guynemer's death to be generally known - and the legend that he just vanished "after flying so high he could not come down" was so poetic. It certainly beats the plain truth of him being shot down into no-man's land and his aircraft destroyed in an artillery bombardment. .Mark. >>>>Merrill Anderson writes:<<<< >According to all the accounts I have read, Navarre was no >"sportsman". He was >known for (and bragged about) following an enemy plane >down to make sure the crew was dead, and strafing them if >they weren't. Many of the other fliers thought he was nuts, >and IIRC, he died in an asylum. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:40:03 -0600 (CST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Russian Aeroplanes book Message-ID: <200301172040.h0HKe3513166@king1.kingsnake.com> So, anybody have the book _Russian Aeroplanes, 1914-1918_ in hand? I ordered mine via the pony express, so it should be here today, or it could be tomorrow. Today, hopefully. :-) Matt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:02:35 EST From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Russian Aeroplanes book Message-ID: <124.1d0bc94d.2b59c96b@aol.com> --part1_124.1d0bc94d.2b59c96b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/17/2003 3:54:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, tbittners@sprintmail.com writes: > So, anybody have the book _Russian Aeroplanes, 1914-1918_ in hand? I > ordered mine via the pony express, so it should be here today, or it could > be tomorrow. Today, hopefully. :-) > > > Matt > Got mine a few days ago... very pleased. Well worth the $25 price. Dave Z (Dave #13) ps - the weird plane on the front cover is the Kasyanenko No.5 on its first (and only) flight, July 1, 1917. --part1_124.1d0bc94d.2b59c96b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/17/2003 3:54:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, tbittners@sprintmail.com writes:


So, anybody have the book _Russian Aeroplanes, 1914-1918_ in hand?  I
ordered mine via the pony express, so it should be here today, or it could
be tomorrow.  Today, hopefully. :-)


Matt


Got mine a few days ago...  very pleased.   Well worth the $25 price.

Dave Z  (Dave #13)

ps - the weird plane on the front cover is the Kasyanenko No.5 on its first (and only) flight, July 1, 1917.
--part1_124.1d0bc94d.2b59c96b_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:18:10 -0800 From: Ray To: wwi@wwi-models.org, "Mark Shannon" Subject: RE: I was a pilot werewolf WAS Garros urban myth Message-ID: <200301171318.10237.Ray_Boorman@telus.net> Navarre did come back to active service just before the war ended. Though how fit he was is anyones guess. He was killed practicing for one of the victory parades in 1919. He was practicing to fly along the Champs Elysees and through the Arc de Triomphe. His practice sessions were to fly under telegraph wires in his Morane Parasol. This was in July 1919. Supposedly after he retruned to active service he was a shell of his former self and very introverted, the stunt about the flyby was something that seemed to bring some of his older self back. As to his earlier exploits, be carefull in how you judge him. He was very excitable and patriotic and took what was being done to the French troops at Verdun as wholesale slaughter and acted as such when flying. He was not the only French Ace like that. Supposedly burning the candle at both ends, being wounded and the death of his brother sent him over the edge and meant he had to be sent to an asylum for much of 1917 and 1918. I have always thought of Navarre as the french Mannock as the war sent him completely round the twist. War brings out the best and worst of people, quite often all in the same person too. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:58:56 -0600 (CST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Russian Aeroplanes book Message-ID: <200301172058.h0HKwuG17667@king1.kingsnake.com> Dave #13 typed (although I messed up and sent this to him directly): > Got mine a few days ago... very pleased. Well worth the $25 price. Gee, can you be anymore verbose? :-) Expand, please. Like, for example, how is the section on the Mosca MB bis? TIA! Matt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:20:11 -0800 From: Ray To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: More on urban legends-Navarre Message-ID: <200301171320.11662.Ray_Boorman@telus.net> Ah that Navarre was a hothead eh!! He is also supposed to have taken off after a Zeppelin raid on paris armed with a meat cleaver in search of the Zeppelin, luckily he and his observer only chased a cloud that looked like a Zeppelin....... Of course later in the war he used to ride his motorcyle in the middle of the night and shoot at anything that moved. Poor guy was very much over the edge by that time. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:25:49 -0800 From: Ray To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: New Acronym for the List Lexicon was:Re: Re:sputin Message-ID: <200301171325.49425.Ray_Boorman@telus.net> If you have Mannock, you would have to add Navarre to keep him company in the padded room! On Friday 17 January 2003 00:18, you wrote: > How about Mannock, because he was mad! > /Neil C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:29:43 EST From: Morg17ms@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Weekend Message-ID: <67.77a9dfb.2b59cfc7@aol.com> --part1_67.77a9dfb.2b59cfc7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree - the Roden Lewis is a beauty - better than any resin or white metal I have seen. Can't wait to see what else Roden might come out with! When I read a book or journal I have a pad and just jot down any interesting photo, diagram, comment, etc along with the page number. When finished the read, I simply transcribe the info into whatever is the appropriate file in my "WW I Aircraft Reference" folder. Must have a couple of hundred different files. Honestly, the notation takes no time as I read, and putting it into the computer takes (usually) less than an hour, unless it is one of those juicy WW I. Aero Journal cockpit articles with dozens of different instruments to document. Tom --part1_67.77a9dfb.2b59cfc7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree - the Roden Lewis is a beauty - better than any resin or white metal I have seen.  Can't wait to see what else Roden might come out with!

When I read a book or journal I have a pad and just jot down any interesting photo, diagram, comment, etc along with the page number.  When finished the read, I simply transcribe the info into whatever is the appropriate file in my "WW I Aircraft Reference" folder.  Must have a couple of hundred different files.  Honestly, the notation takes no time as I read, and putting it into the computer takes (usually) less than an hour, unless it is one of those juicy WW I. Aero Journal cockpit articles with dozens of different instruments to document.

Tom
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