WWI Digest 4880 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Eduard Gauntlet by "Ross & Wendy Moorhouse" 2) Re: Eduard Gauntlet by Dave FleMING 3) DWC - photos by "Bob Pearson" 4) Re: Eduard Gauntlet by "Bob Pearson" 5) the more pleasing aircraft WAS: Nieuport q's by "Diego Fernetti" 6) Re: BE2e question/ was: OT dog question by "Diego Fernetti" 7) Re: Back at it by "Diego Fernetti" 8) Re: BE2e question/ was: OT dog question by "Diego Fernetti" 9) Re: Get 'em young! by Eric GALLAUD 10) Re: Get 'em young! by "Diego Fernetti" 11) Re: Nieuport colors by tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) 12) Re: DWC - photos by Eric GALLAUD 13) Re: Get 'em young! by , 14) Re: The Marx Brothers by Ken Schmitt 15) Happy New year.. by "Ross & Wendy Moorhouse" 16) Re: Nieuport colors by Eric GALLAUD 17) Re: New Products, part 9 by Ken Schmitt 18) Re: W29s by tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) 19) Re: Get 'em young! by Eric GALLAUD 20) Re: Happy New year.. by Shane & Lorna Jenkins 21) Re: Happy New year.. by Eric GALLAUD 22) Happy New Year by "Michal Beran" 23) RE: Nieuport questions by "Michal Beran" 24) Re: I've nearly finished the fokker by PfalzPflyer@netscape.net (Dean R. Dingman) 25) Re: The Marx Brothers by "Michael Kendix" 26) Re: Nieuport questions by tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) 27) Re: I've nearly finished the fokker by PfalzPflyer@netscape.net (Dean R. Dingman) 28) Re: DWC - photos by "Steven Perry" 29) Re: DWC - photos by MARK MILLER 30) Re: DWC - photos by "Pedro Soares" 31) Lozenge colors... was site update by "Lance Krieg" 32) Looking For Florist Wire? by "Wire Links" 33) happy new year by "Liefferinckx Frederic" 34) Re: Lozenge colors... was site update by "Steven Perry" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:02:39 +1100 From: "Ross & Wendy Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Eduard Gauntlet Message-ID: <000001c2b0b3$c3c000d0$f5482dcb@future> Is he subbed to the list? Ross Moorhouse Matrix Games Director of Game Development. www.matrixgames.com -----Original Message----- From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org] On Behalf Of Bob Pearson Sent: Tuesday, 31 December 2002 9:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] Re: Eduard Gauntlet Ah .. if he was serious he would post it here Bob ---------- >From: "peter leonard" > In the parallel universe that is (and mind the wrap) > http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=models&action=display&n um=1 021584281 > &start=75 > Colin Adair of Eduard throws down a challenge: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:05:23 +0000 From: Dave FleMING To: Subject: Re: Eduard Gauntlet Message-ID: <1041329123.3e116be3144da@netmail.pipex.net> Quoting peter leonard : >> Colin Adair of Eduard throws down a challenge: > > ................ > "We could, possibly, do a "pre-payment" system where you get 500 or a > 1000 guys who want the same kit (maybe a 1/72nd truck!) and you prepay, > lets say $75 each, and then we would produce the kit (all the figures > are just guesses and in reality would be higher or lower depending on > quantities). That would put the ball in your court and we save us the > worries on how a model would sell. > > What do you think?" > ................. > > Is it me or did someone just open a can of worms? > Never happen as you'll never get 10 WW1 enthusiasts to agree on a subject they want, let alone 100 or 1000. Mind you, I'll be surprised if they sell 3000 DH2s, notwithstanding that I'll buy a few. 'Ming ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 02:22:16 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: ww1 mailing list Subject: DWC - photos Message-ID: <104133014101@smtp-2.vancouver.ipapp.com> Hi all, I just took a little break from the next IM and posted some shots of the DWC as of a week ago. It can be seen at http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/DWC.htm Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 02:23:48 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Eduard Gauntlet Message-ID: <104133023201@smtp-2.vancouver.ipapp.com> Probably not, but he most likely knows about it. Bob ---------- >From: "Ross & Wendy Moorhouse" > Is he subbed to the list? > > Ross Moorhouse > Matrix Games Director of Game Development. > www.matrixgames.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:57:20 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: the more pleasing aircraft WAS: Nieuport q's Message-ID: Bob wrote: >Pfalz Pffffft! D. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:05:23 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: BE2e question/ was: OT dog question Message-ID: Sean! >looks to me like >that's Australian phenom, Mark Webber. Drove for lowly >Minardi, last year - where he stunned all by gaining >two points, first race - and will take the wheel for >lowly (but expensive) Jaguar, this. Good driver. But, >mark my words - Alonso is the next F1 god. I like Webber just because he flies airplanes. At least Schiumi looks like a Manfred VRichthofen relative! :-) D. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:10:26 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Back at it Message-ID: Matt! >As a matter of fact, my wife asked me when I returned from work >"You missed some spots shaving." ;-) Uh-Oh... >Oooo...maybe that's what I'll do. Normally my anal tendencies is >to make a certain type French, and then "whatever", but I have >this awesome scheme in mind for an RCW Nie.24 that maybe I'll do >that one alongside the Nie.17 instead of the Nie.17bis. Great >idea, D!! ;-) Looks like we have a Nieuport Cook-Up weather froont approaching... ain't that nice? Wadda ya think Shane and Lorna? Or at least we must do a Siemens Schuckert Cook Up, so we can build Nieuports without guilt! ;-) D. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:07:10 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: BE2e question/ was: OT dog question Message-ID: Sean! >Me Mum actually named me after him. :) Don't tell me that your sis is named Ursula! D. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:26:08 +0100 From: Eric GALLAUD To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Get 'em young! Message-ID: <3E118CE0.8080607@club-internet.fr> Strange language ???? It's a pity that almost all other countries have some strange languages ;-) Eric from France Nigel Cheffers-Heard a écrit: >"Noy-port"? > >C'est vrai! >N > > > >>> > how this bird is pronounced correctly. New-port? >>> >>> >>> Ya! You have it correct, Hans. >>> >>> >>> >>Perhaps the French would disagree. Strange language, >>theirs... >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:35:15 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Get 'em young! Message-ID: Eric le Gaul a écrit: >Strange language ???? >It's a pity that almost all other countries have some strange languages ;-) LOL Best answer I'd ever imagined! D. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 06:33:06 -0600 (CST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nieuport colors Message-ID: <200212311233.gBVCX6K90300@king1.kingsnake.com> > What are some good matches, or FS approximations for the brown and green? No idea. I haven't tried matching anything to the photo yet. Whenever I get to doing a camo early Nieuport, I'll look at it. However, MisterKit does have both colors in their line, and since Alberto researched those colors for MisterKit, I would trust those. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:52:48 +0100 From: Eric GALLAUD To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: DWC - photos Message-ID: <3E119320.3010908@club-internet.fr> Very nice, I think it could be put in in my house ;-) Eric Bob Pearson a écrit: >Hi all, > >I just took a little break from the next IM and posted some shots of the DWC >as of a week ago. It can be seen at http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/DWC.htm > >Bob > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:53:26 +0000 From: , To: Subject: Re: Get 'em young! Message-ID: <1041339206.3e119346ed831@netmail.pipex.net> Quoting Diego Fernetti : > Eric le Gaul a écrit: > >Strange language ???? > >It's a pity that almost all other countries have some strange languages > ;-) > > LOL > Best answer I'd ever imagined! I was always better at Latin than French, but French at least had a structure, once (as a native English speaker) you get used to inanimate objects having a gender. English must be a hellish language to learn as a non-native speaker. On the question of pronunciation, it's not unusual for English pronunciation of a French word to be different - we say the capital is 'parris', the French say 'pa-ree'. Anyway, I'm interested in the RFC/RNAS ones, so I'll say 'New-port'!:-p Now, how did the French say 'Spad' Dave the 'Ming ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 06:55:51 -0600 From: Ken Schmitt To: Subject: Re: The Marx Brothers Message-ID: Colin @ Ed's New Bargain Barn offers: > "We could, possibly, do a "pre-payment" system where you get 500 or a 1000 > guys who want the same kit (maybe a 1/72nd truck!) and you prepay, lets say > $75 each, and then we would produce the kit (all the figures are just guesses > and in reality would be higher or lower depending on quantities). That would > put the ball in your court and we save us the worries on how a model would > sell. > > What do you think?" > ................. > > Is it me or did someone just open a can of worms? Depends. 500 guys @ $75 = $37,500 1000 = $75,000 Someone needs to sharpen their pencil. I want his job. You could drive a truck through that plan. If he's serious, it amounts to a public offering, per version kit, in mini. On that basis, we would also each see a share of return or amount due, based on the market performance of each version kit. Just to set the record straight. An interesting gauntlet and this would be the most *reasonable* response. Have had clients make similar challenge. "Will you take the risk with me? I get paid, you get paid?" Sure, if you make out like a bandit, do I also? No? oops. "Well, could you guarantee it will work?" No, if I could do that, I'd sit in your desk. Yes, it sounds like a can of something. Ken S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:00:07 +1100 From: "Ross & Wendy Moorhouse" To: Subject: Happy New year.. Message-ID: <003801c2b0cc$8b257520$f5482dcb@future> It's now 2003 here.... I hope that 2003 is a great OT time for us all. Bring on the Roden Se5a and the Eduard Camels.. Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:00:49 +0100 From: Eric GALLAUD To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nieuport colors Message-ID: <3E119501.6000607@club-internet.fr> For my Belgian Ni16, I took the AGAMA paints F9P for the brown and F10P for the green. Nice paints, airbrushed well (enamel). Available at Hobbyshop.cz Eric Matt Bittner a écrit: >>What are some good matches, or FS approximations for the brown and >> >> >green? > >No idea. I haven't tried matching anything to the photo yet. Whenever I >get to doing a camo early Nieuport, I'll look at it. However, MisterKit >does have both colors in their line, and since Alberto researched those >colors for MisterKit, I would trust those. > > >Matt > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:02:15 -0600 From: Ken Schmitt To: Subject: Re: New Products, part 9 Message-ID: continuing public participation in a privately held model company: > What do you think?" > ................. > > Is it me or did someone just open a can of worms? Perhaps a can of Toads. After the last month, I'm guessing there may be *at least* 1500 Cane Toad fanatics. If you can build a better Cane Toad Purse, the world will beat a path to your door. There may ultimately be more fanatics than the proverbial highway assaulters themselves. Imagine: a dearth of toads. Now that's a business plan. Ken, running to find abacus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 06:47:09 -0600 (CST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: W29s Message-ID: <200212311247.gBVCl9L90920@king1.kingsnake.com> > Then, beside the Toko and MPM W 29's, there is also the beautiful > Czechmaster resin, which (again from memory only) captures the unique wing > thickness variation quite well. Meikraft did one as well, which was probably a copy of the Czechmaster. I've built it, but oh so many years ago I can't recall anything about it. :-) Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:05:31 +0100 From: Eric GALLAUD To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Get 'em young! Message-ID: <3E11961B.1040409@club-internet.fr> Dave@dial.pipex.com a écrit >Now, how did the French say 'Spad' > > > SPAD with the same pronunciation for the A than for AmericA Eric le Gaulois ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 00:13:44 +1100 From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Happy New year.. Message-ID: <3E119808.3BB168F5@tac.com.au> Ross & Wendy Moorhouse wrote: > > It's now 2003 here.... > > I hope that 2003 is a great OT time for us all. Bring on the Roden Se5a > and the Eduard Camels.. Hi Ross, Nice to see we weren't the only ones to interupt our New years celebrations ;-) HAPPY NEW Year Everyone ;-) S & L - who spent a few minyutes fixing up most typos ;-þ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:11:54 +0100 From: Eric GALLAUD To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Happy New year.. Message-ID: <3E11979A.3090906@club-internet.fr> We are preparing to move for the new year eve, so happy new year to everybody, lots of OT stuff, and at first good health. Eric Ross & Wendy Moorhouse a écrit: >It's now 2003 here.... > >I hope that 2003 is a great OT time for us all. Bring on the Roden Se5a >and the Eduard Camels.. > >Ross > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:12:34 +0100 From: "Michal Beran" To: Subject: Happy New Year Message-ID: <001501c2b0d1$66a3f5f0$26720bd4@p4> Dear ladies and gentlemen, we want to wish you all a wonderfull, happy 2003, hopefully without wars and struggles, with plenty of free time to spend with your families, friends and (of course) all that plastic, resin etc. stuff we all like. from central europe Michal and Klara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:16:23 +0100 From: "Michal Beran" To: Subject: RE: Nieuport questions Message-ID: <001601c2b0d1$67615280$26720bd4@p4> quoting Dave F. >You can blame Michal Beran for these, he re-awakened my latent Nie obsession! >1) Anyone any idea WHY the RFC removed the Vickers/Interrupter gear from their >Nie 17s etc? Strange when the RNAS retained them on their 17bis'. >2)On those with the ply l/e (24, 27?) what was the visual effect of this - just >no riblets on the l/e or was the ply fillet visible under the fabric? >3) What's current thought on colours of early cammo'd aircraft (two >greens/green-brown?) ? IIRC, there was some info on these in the Dorme book >Matt enthused over earlier in the year. >That'll do for now! There is nothing bad with Nie obsession, isn´t it, Matt? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:40:21 -0500 From: PfalzPflyer@netscape.net (Dean R. Dingman) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: I've nearly finished the fokker Message-ID: <1584E21E.61A117E7.3D55D023@netscape.net> "Diego Fernetti" wrote: >I believed that the artist painted the scene as if the watcher was a bird. >A bobolink, to be precise. >D. African or European? Dean __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:42:30 +0000 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: The Marx Brothers Message-ID: >From: Ken Schmitt >Colin @ Ed's New Bargain Barn offers: > >>"We could, possibly, do a "pre-payment" system where you get 500 or >>a >>1000 guys who want the same kit (maybe a 1/72nd truck!) and you >>prepay, >>lets say $75 each, and then.... >..."Will you take the risk with me? I get paid, you get paid?" >Sure, if you make out like a bandit, do I also? >No? oops. Eggzactly! And this was pointed out by "Barker" on the same forum. The problem, as most recognize, is the set up cost of any one kit. If the kit's small, like a 1/72nd scale truck, there's not much saving compared to a 1/72nd scale Sopwith Camel kit's set up. You still have the marketing, packaging, distributions costs and of course, the mold costs. One possible idea is to include the extra truck thing or whatever in the same box and charge a bit extra. So instead of (or in addition to) photoetch, you get a little truck thing: similar to what Hit Kit did with their Ansaldo Balilla and Ford Truck, I think. That way, if you were clever about what "extra" piece you selected to manufacture, you could pop it into a number of different kits. E.g. an RFC/German maintainance van, trolly etc. (Was there such a thing?). Michael _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:28:49 -0600 (CST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com (Matt Bittner) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nieuport questions Message-ID: <200212311328.gBVDSnR93316@king1.kingsnake.com> > There is nothing bad with Nie obsession, isn´t it, Matt? No, not at all! Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:23:42 -0500 From: PfalzPflyer@netscape.net (Dean R. Dingman) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: I've nearly finished the fokker Message-ID: <0FFD76D9.3385FA4F.3D55D023@netscape.net> PfalzPflyer@netscape.net (Dean R. Dingman) wrote: >"Diego Fernetti" wrote: > >>I believed that the artist painted the scene as if the watcher was a bird. >>A bobolink, to be precise. >>D. > Whoops, sorry! Should have known someone would beat me too it! Best regards, Dean >African or European? > >Dean > >__________________________________________________________________ >The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp > >Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ > __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:34:41 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: DWC - photos Message-ID: <003701c2b0d9$c34d2580$20244918@tampabay.rr.com> OUTFREAKINSTANDING! You go Bob! sp > Hi all, > > I just took a little break from the next IM and posted some shots of the DWC > as of a week ago. It can be seen at http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/DWC.htm > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 06:43:41 -0800 (PST) From: MARK MILLER To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: DWC - photos Message-ID: <20021231144341.87247.qmail@web80007.mail.yahoo.com> I just took a little break from the next IM and > posted some shots of the > DWC > > as of a week ago. It can be seen at > http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/DWC.htm > > > > Bob Bob VERY cool!! Thats looks like a fun project. how are you set for reference on the exterior? I was rumaging through my photos recently and found a couple of old shots of the DWC i took at NASM (i think) I could scan them if it would be helpful. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:31:31 -0000 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: Re: DWC - photos Message-ID: <002001c2b0e1$b1e4fea0$3efa16d5@netcabo.pt> > OUTFREAKINSTANDING! You go Bob! > sp > Of course he means ps (that's Pedro Soares) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:31:53 -0600 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Lozenge colors... was site update Message-ID: Pedro asks: "Is this the only real lozenge covered machine in existence today? Has anyone compared the several issues of lozenge decals to the aircraft fabric?" And I wonder... are the Australian Pfalz D.XII and Albatros D.Va still in their original skins? I think most everything else has been recovered. Of course, there are many, many examples of lozenge fabric floating around, and these have beeen painstakingly matched to colors on occasion, and these in turn used by various decal manufacturers. I myself have used my Methuen book in Dayton, where one can (or could) get close to a well-lighted 5 color sample cut from a German plane, and confirmed to my own satisfaction that the Americal/Gryphon colors were very, very close. This was in 1984, and Americal had the ONLY 5-color decals available for comparison. There are now other manufacturers whose products are about as good, at least to my eyes - and, of course, some that aren't. As the Knowlton Fokker demonstrates, a top varnish can certainly alter the underlying colors, and of course one could argue that the dyed fabric itself varied from lot to lot. One man's opinion, only. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:49:12 -0500 From: "Wire Links" To: Subject: Looking For Florist Wire? Message-ID: <008f01c2b0e4$2a1ef860$6601a8c0@ulf> Dear Sir/Madame We are Wire Links Internet see http://www.wirelinks.com Your e-mail address appears on a procurement list for florist wire. If this information is incorrect or if you have a new address please let us know as we are in the process of up dating our database of vendors. Please take a look at our web page and let us know if we can be of some use to you. Wire links has been designed to provide an accurate list of suppliers, distributors or manufactures of wire and cable. Thanks for your cooperation Best regards Wire Links Paul Douwes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:11:35 +0100 From: "Liefferinckx Frederic" To: Subject: happy new year Message-ID: <002d01c2b0e7$6ecf2b80$db44fea9@leif> I want to wish you all a happy new year for 2003 without sad news,wars,riots.....Regards Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:22:05 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Lozenge colors... was site update Message-ID: <009901c2b0e8$c2669840$20244918@tampabay.rr.com> > As the Knowlton Fokker demonstrates, a top varnish can certainly alter > the underlying colors, and of course one could argue that the dyed > fabric itself varied from lot to lot. I would imagine that any variations in dye color were hardly noticable when the bolts were shipped. The Germans were the world leaders in dyes and quite proud of it. Where I think variations in batches showed up was how the dyes aged. That really throws us modelers a curve ball, because existing fabric samples really aren't likely to be representative of how a newly covered and varnished airframe looked. Once an airplane has been flown in service, no matter how well cleaned up, any subsequent coat of varnish is not going to age gracefully. It will get yellower and darker with age. You aren't varnishing over a doped surface, but rather a doped surface under a very thin layer of oil/dirt/solvent residue left after even a thorough cleaning. Rather a lot of possible reactions there when exposed to 80+ years of light, air and humidity. Lance wrote: "I myself have used my Methuen book in Dayton, where one can (or could) get close to a well-lighted 5 color sample cut from a German plane, and confirmed to my own satisfaction that the Americal/Gryphon colors were very, very close" Thats about all that can be done at this point in history. Establish an approximate range of what is acceptable and compare to that. This isn't the first knowledgable person I've heard say that A/G is quite close. So for my own practical purposes, I compare Loz decals to A/G. Not how close thay are to A/G, but whether any of the colors are way off from A/G. Loz is hard enough to work with without dithering excessively over colors, so for me, if it's reasonably close to A/G, I use it if not I replace it. sp ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4880 **********************