WWI Digest 4682 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Ni 24/27 top wing question by "Hans Trauner" 2) Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question by "Thomas Solinski" 3) Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question by "NEIL EDDY" 4) Re: Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question by "NEIL EDDY" 5) Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question by "Hans Trauner" 6) Re: Your question about the Italian front by Larry Marshall 7) Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question by "Michael Kendix" 8) Uggie to Southern California by Dennis Ugulano 9) Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question by "NEIL EDDY" 10) Re: Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question by "Michael Kendix" 11) Re: Macchi M.9 by "Alberto Casirati" 12) Re: Ni 24/27 top wing question by "Dale Sebring" 13) Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question by "NEIL EDDY" 14) Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question by "Hans Trauner" 15) Re: Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question by "Thomas Solinski" 16) Re: Pfalz silbergrau Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question by "Hans Trauner" 17) Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question by "Michael Kendix" 18) Re: Pfalz silbergrau Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question by "NEIL EDDY" 19) Re: Your question about the Italian front by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 20) Re: Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question by Steven Perry 21) Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 22) HR Nieuport 25 decals by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 23) CDL shading by Karen Rychlewski ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 16:20:51 +0200 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Ni 24/27 top wing question Message-ID: <002701c26c7a$68e8eaa0$f2a272d4@FRITZweb> Listees, I must confess, I am not the great expert for Nieuports. All sources I have are the Ni17 datafile and Osprey's Aces by N.Franks. Nevertheless I could not restist today on a model show in Regensburg: Hi-Tech's Ni 24/27 is mine now. The instructions says that you have to wrap the leading edge of the top wing with plasticcard to represent a plywood leading edge. The Eduard wing suppliied shows a standard Ni 17 wing. On the few pics, plus the drawings in the Osprey booklet I cannot identify this plywood leading edge. So, what to do? And, if, what are the measurements? ( Matt, where are you...?) Thanks! Hans ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 09:25:45 -0500 From: "Thomas Solinski" To: Subject: Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <000701c26c7b$17d66920$9eb40c44@ok.cox.net> This string forces me to ask the question: Since IPMS doesn't require any proof of scale or other documentation at a meet, and this is a case where a SOB model could show up next to Neils' soon to be modified model, is it the sole responsibility of the judge to KNOW there were different exhaust pipes? Or is Neil going to be penalized for haveing the "wrong" pipes? Just currious Mr. T > On those published pics it's clear to see that this D.IIIa did not use the > standard saxophon style exhaust, but mere short tubes on each cylinder. I > would estimate them 2,5mm for 1/48. > > > Here we are again on another action packed modelling Saturday night...and > I > > have another Pfalz question(s)! > > > > On the WW1 Website various builds of Holtzem's D-111a mention non standard > > exaust pipes. Has anyone got any clear pictures or descriptions of these > > exhaust thingies? What is necessary to build them in 1/48? > > > > All the Best > > > > Neil E > > (Southern Diet) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 00:29:35 +1000 From: "NEIL EDDY" To: Subject: Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <002b01c26c7b$a1c33fa0$5fc832d2@default> Hi Hans; I guess I'll see from Sanjeev's scan, but it sounds like they individually connect direct to the cylinder heads. Any idea why Holtzem's machine was different? Was this a common variation? All the Best Neil E (nowhere near Scandinavia) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Trauner" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 12:14 AM Subject: [WWI] Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question > On those published pics it's clear to see that this D.IIIa did not use the > standard saxophon style exhaust, but mere short tubes on each cylinder. I > would estimate them 2,5mm for 1/48. > > Hans > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "NEIL EDDY" > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 3:50 PM > Subject: [WWI] Yet Another Pfalz Question > > > > Here we are again on another action packed modelling Saturday night...and > I > > have another Pfalz question(s)! > > > > On the WW1 Website various builds of Holtzem's D-111a mention non standard > > exaust pipes. Has anyone got any clear pictures or descriptions of these > > exhaust thingies? What is necessary to build them in 1/48? > > > > All the Best > > > > Neil E > > (Southern Diet) > > > > (Maybe I'll go out next Saturday night....) > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 00:43:42 +1000 From: "NEIL EDDY" To: Subject: Re: Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <003601c26c7d$9a219880$5fc832d2@default> Mr T. That's an interesting point and down here the answer may vary as which IPMS competition its entered in. If I entered it in our internal IPMS Australia "Best in Club" comp which has a running score across the year (every meeting has a different heat), it might not matter and would be accepted. For the IPMS Model Expo (some think its a National championship whilst others here would dispute this), I would have to provide some documentation. It would also be entered in a different category ('Modified') than the SOB one (which would be in an SOB category). For the Modified category, I would have to provide a list of the different modifications done. Then again the 'Modified' category here will also include countless Tamigawa ME10thingiies and numerous kerosene burners, all brimming with aftermarket bits.There are no WW1 or biplane splits here. This might explain why so few OT and Biplane models are entered. I know things are done differently in the US and everywhere else most likely, but this is the IPMS comp conditions here... All the Best Neil E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Solinski" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 12:28 AM Subject: [WWI] Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question > This string forces me to ask the question: Since IPMS doesn't require any > proof of scale or other documentation at a meet, and this is a case where a > SOB model could show up next to Neils' soon to be modified model, is it the > sole responsibility of the judge to KNOW there were different exhaust pipes? > Or is Neil going to be penalized for haveing the "wrong" pipes? > > Just currious > > Mr. T > > > > On those published pics it's clear to see that this D.IIIa did not use the > > standard saxophon style exhaust, but mere short tubes on each cylinder. I > > would estimate them 2,5mm for 1/48. > > > > > Here we are again on another action packed modelling Saturday > night...and > > I > > > have another Pfalz question(s)! > > > > > > On the WW1 Website various builds of Holtzem's D-111a mention non > standard > > > exaust pipes. Has anyone got any clear pictures or descriptions of these > > > exhaust thingies? What is necessary to build them in 1/48? > > > > > > All the Best > > > > > > Neil E > > > (Southern Diet) > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 16:53:43 +0200 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <000b01c26c7f$00672000$4da272d4@FRITZweb> Neil, I never saw this modification on a other Pfalz yet. I am not sure why Holtzem's Pfalz was such equipped. More power? At last, that's what we did on our Volkswagen Beetles when I was young ( last century, just after WWI). No exhaust collector raised HP from 34 to 35... Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "NEIL EDDY" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 4:30 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question > Hi Hans; > > I guess I'll see from Sanjeev's scan, but it sounds like they individually > connect direct to the cylinder heads. Any idea why Holtzem's machine was > different? Was this a common variation? > > All the Best > > Neil E > (nowhere near Scandinavia) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hans Trauner" > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 12:14 AM > Subject: [WWI] Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question > > > > On those published pics it's clear to see that this D.IIIa did not use the > > standard saxophon style exhaust, but mere short tubes on each cylinder. I > > would estimate them 2,5mm for 1/48. > > > > Hans > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "NEIL EDDY" > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 3:50 PM > > Subject: [WWI] Yet Another Pfalz Question > > > > > > > Here we are again on another action packed modelling Saturday > night...and > > I > > > have another Pfalz question(s)! > > > > > > On the WW1 Website various builds of Holtzem's D-111a mention non > standard > > > exaust pipes. Has anyone got any clear pictures or descriptions of these > > > exhaust thingies? What is necessary to build them in 1/48? > > > > > > All the Best > > > > > > Neil E > > > (Southern Diet) > > > > > > (Maybe I'll go out next Saturday night....) > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:59:41 -0400 From: Larry Marshall To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Your question about the Italian front Message-ID: <200210051059.41370.larrym@sympatico.ca> On Saturday 05 October 2002 08:34 am, you wrote: > > > I have interesting, but short book > > > about it). > > > > I bet it's in Polish, right (grin)? Thanks again for the clarification. > > Of course in Polish. All the good stuff is, right (grin)? > "Bombing" of the Russian parade in captured Okocim with brewery leaflets > "Drink the finest Okocim beer!" Make beer, not war > story about cossacks ordered to destroy the big beer reserves and remove > them to the river - immediately after all the Russian soldiers were > drinking "water" from the river (rather small creek). Chemical warfare of the finest kind :-) > First artillery attack corrected from air through radio: bombing of Tarnow > 12 January 1915, aircraft involved was Albatros B.I "Muzzl" from Flik 1, Is this true for the entire war or just the eastern front? It would seem that this would have occurred already on the western front by then. Thanks for the overview. Cheers --- Larry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:03:08 +0000 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: Neil: I built the Mac kit in 1/72nd scale and I'm not saying it was great but this is what it looks like: http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/nov2000/aviation/pfalz.htm To do the engine exhausts..."I cut six small pieces of .022 soldering wire and glued them using super glue. I purchased a roll of this wire from Radio Shack (a large electronic goods chain)". So maybe you can obtain slightly (50%) larger material. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 11:02:47 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Uggie to Southern California Message-ID: <200210051102_MC3-1-13D6-F2B2@compuserve.com> Everyone, Next Wednesday and Thursday will find me in Southern Calif for my son's senior trip. He has no idea where he is going. But to keep this on topic, I will make a trip over to Brookhurst Hobbies on Thursday. They usually have stacks and stacks of vacuforms and lord knows I may need one or eleven of them. I just went to their web site but the model section is under reorganization. Currently on the bench is the Joystick Ansaldo Balilla. It's cut out and the sanding is in progress. It will be a nice little kit but the color scheme will push me over the edge. I will do the late war camo as found on page 29 and the back cover of Windsock Datafile 88. Any traces of sanity should be gone after that one. I finished a kit last week but will have to wait to show it off. I'm taking six days off next week from work but I will not be building six kits. I'm cured or at least that's what they tell me down at the funny farm. The Balilla will be # 116 in the collection and the collection will be 58 each for each side. Which brings me to a question. What were the different sides referred to? In WW2 it was Allied and Axis. What were the sides referred to in WW1? I think I should know this answer but it eludes me. Must be something about turning 60. Uggie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 01:11:37 +1000 From: "NEIL EDDY" To: Subject: Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <005901c26c81$80c57380$5fc832d2@default> Hi Hans; I guess the noise rating went up considerably too (if thats possible on a Volkswagen). ;-) Maybe Holtzem, having a test pilot's knowledge, delberately 'hotted' his Pfalz up as you say to increase peformance. I wonder if there would have been regulations controlling modifications like this at the front? All the Best Neil E (who had to jump start a friend's old Volkswagen just last night) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Trauner" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 12:53 AM Subject: [WWI] Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question > Neil, I never saw this modification on a other Pfalz yet. I am not sure why > Holtzem's Pfalz was such equipped. More power? At last, that's what we did > on our Volkswagen Beetles when I was young ( last century, just after WWI). > No exhaust collector raised HP from 34 to 35... > > Hans > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "NEIL EDDY" > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 4:30 PM > Subject: [WWI] Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question > > > > Hi Hans; > > > > I guess I'll see from Sanjeev's scan, but it sounds like they individually > > connect direct to the cylinder heads. Any idea why Holtzem's machine was > > different? Was this a common variation? > > > > All the Best > > > > Neil E > > (nowhere near Scandinavia) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Hans Trauner" > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 12:14 AM > > Subject: [WWI] Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question > > > > > > > On those published pics it's clear to see that this D.IIIa did not use > the > > > standard saxophon style exhaust, but mere short tubes on each cylinder. > I > > > would estimate them 2,5mm for 1/48. > > > > > > Hans > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "NEIL EDDY" > > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > > Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 3:50 PM > > > Subject: [WWI] Yet Another Pfalz Question > > > > > > > > > > Here we are again on another action packed modelling Saturday > > night...and > > > I > > > > have another Pfalz question(s)! > > > > > > > > On the WW1 Website various builds of Holtzem's D-111a mention non > > standard > > > > exaust pipes. Has anyone got any clear pictures or descriptions of > these > > > > exhaust thingies? What is necessary to build them in 1/48? > > > > > > > > All the Best > > > > > > > > Neil E > > > > (Southern Diet) > > > > > > > > (Maybe I'll go out next Saturday night....) > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:18:31 +0000 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: >From: "Thomas Solinski" > >This string forces me to ask the question: Since IPMS doesn't >require any >proof of scale or other documentation at a meet, and this >is a case where >a SOB model could show up next to Neils' soon to be >modified model, is it >the sole responsibility of the judge to KNOW >there were different exhaust >pipes? >Or is Neil going to be penalized for haveing the "wrong" pipes? Tom: Fair question. IPMS USA rules focus on modeling basics and accuracy is very much a secondary issue. Obviously, the judges may not know whether the pipes are accurate. Unless something is really off-the-wall (I'm sure one can think of more agregious example than those exhaust pipes), it rarely comes into play. The so-called "Basics" are the first criteria for judging: things like alignment, paint finish, glue blobs, seams, decal silvering and so on. Of course, it's often difficult to decide whether this paint boo-boo is worse than the other's glue splodge. Anyway, vitrually all models will have something of this ilk wrong with them. Should all this be perfect, minor accuracy issues such as those exhausts might play a role. However, in the categories at the 2 Regional and one National competition that I've judged, accuracy has never been a factor. There is not exactly a "Modeification" category in IPMS USA rules - it is either OOB or not. OOB means you can do things like fill with putty, do rigging, different decals to those in the box but no cutting and sawing off bits. If you do a real "Conversion" that's different and something more substantial has to be done to major parts of the kit. I'm not saying this is a perfect system but that is what's done. I hope this answers your questions. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:15:43 +0200 From: "Alberto Casirati" To: Cc: "WW1 Modeling List" Subject: Re: Macchi M.9 Message-ID: <004301c26c82$5bfab320$82ef22d4@s> Dear Eric, The Macchi M.9's standard factory finish was as follows: - lower part of hull: white; - upper part of hull and interiors: natural varnished wood (of generally medium/dark reddish brown shade); - cockpit metal fittings and parts: gloss light grey; - wings and horizonthal tail surfaces: clear doped linen; - vertical tail surfaces devided into three bands, painted green (always leading), white and red; - roundels on forward hull's sides, under the bow and over the upper wings; - undersides of both wings had their tips painted green (always to starboard) and red, with the central part left CDL. - engine covering and metal parts of hull: light grey (gloss when new). As you can see, it was virtually idientical to the one of the Macchi M.5. Hope this can be of some interest. My thanks to Diego Fernetti for bringing my attention to Eric's request: it is VERY difficult for me to keep up with the List's posting these days... All the very best, Alberto Casirati Honorary Keeper - Aviation Section Bergamo Museum of History www.museostoricobg.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 09:28:45 -0600 From: "Dale Sebring" To: Subject: Re: Ni 24/27 top wing question Message-ID: <000701c26c83$e5e80960$fc9dfea9@RDS> Dear Hans, D sent me drawings of the N.24/27 that shows the ply covering very nicely. I just tried sending them to you but received a failure notice. Perhaps Da can send them to you. Sorry. Best regards, Dale > Listees, > I must confess, I am not the great expert for Nieuports. All sources I have > are the Ni17 datafile and Osprey's Aces by N.Franks. Nevertheless I could > not restist today on a model show in Regensburg: Hi-Tech's Ni 24/27 is mine > now. The instructions says that you have to wrap the leading edge of the top > wing with plasticcard to represent a plywood leading edge. The Eduard wing > suppliied shows a standard Ni 17 wing. On the few pics, plus the drawings in > the Osprey booklet I cannot identify this plywood leading edge. So, what to > do? And, if, what are the measurements? ( Matt, where are you...?) > > Thanks! > > Hans > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 01:33:44 +1000 From: "NEIL EDDY" To: Subject: Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <008501c26c84$97d385a0$5fc832d2@default> Hi Michael; Thanks for the tip, I'll have to see what's available to use for the exhausts. I must have missed this article when I was trolling the 'net for resources. I like also your Silbergrau - I'm going to use a Humbrol 147 Light Grey/Aluminium mix which should give similar results to your Aeromaster mix. By the way, are they enamels or acrylics you used? All the Best Neil E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Kendix" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 1:05 AM Subject: [WWI] Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question > Neil: > > > I built the Mac kit in 1/72nd scale and I'm not saying it was great but this > is what it looks like: > > http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/nov2000/aviation/pfalz.htm > > To do the engine exhausts..."I cut six small pieces of .022 soldering wire > and glued them using super glue. I purchased a roll of this wire from Radio > Shack (a large electronic goods chain)". So maybe you can obtain slightly > (50%) larger material. > > Michael > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:44:37 +0200 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <000d01c26c86$1c946560$34aa72d4@FRITZweb> Neil, > I guess the noise rating went up considerably too (if thats possible on a > Volkswagen). ;-) It was great, especially when driving thru tunnels...and Police als drove only Beetles... > Maybe Holtzem, having a test pilot's knowledge, delberately 'hotted' his > Pfalz up as you say to increase peformance. I wonder if there would have > been regulations controlling modifications like this at the front? I doubt that those modifications where permitted. Maybe the test pilot status helped to disregard that. Or just a crate of beer for the Werkmeister = chief of mechanics? H. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:42:45 -0500 From: "Thomas Solinski" To: Subject: Re: Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <003801c26c85$d99b9ee0$9eb40c44@ok.cox.net> Thanks Mike it helps. I've just recently gotten into the IPMS rule book, and I see that I'm comming from the wrong direction. In Flying scale meets authenticity and accuracy are foremost within the limits of the modeling medium. ie an 8 foot rc spitthingie is expected to duplicate the full scale item where as we ignore the big tan strip of wound rubber going through the cockpit of a rubber powered version of the same subject It's nice to see that IPMS has made its focus the process and methods to reder an artisitic representation. Thanks Mr T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:58:50 +0200 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: Pfalz silbergrau Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <002301c26c88$18e7ed40$34aa72d4@FRITZweb> Neil, I would suggest even different shades of silbergrau. I do have a presumtion that maybe, perhaps, could be, etc., two different paint formulas where used for wooden fuselage and linen wings. Real laquer paints where on very short supply in 1917, but nitro cellulose dope with aluminium pigment was available. Nitro cellulose dope with pigment is not either easy to spray not to brush, but there is a intelligence report that the Pfalz was brushed in a somewhat careless manner, which is a indication for pigmented dope. This dope would be sufficient for the wings. No idea if the wooden fuselage was painted in laquer or oil based silver paint, as the nitro cellulose dope will do it also. But there are definitely darker shades of silbergrau seen on many Pfalz pics, even on the Dr I. Maybe it's a matter of priming or fading, whatever. Anyway, a darker shade for the wings will overcome the lozenge-or-not-problem which is especially virulent on Holtzem's bird. Dicta Ira rules, as always. Hans ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 16:19:35 +0000 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: Acrylics. >From: "NEIL EDDY" >By the way, are they enamels or acrylics you used? _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 02:19:41 +1000 From: "NEIL EDDY" To: Subject: Re: Pfalz silbergrau Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <000a01c26c8b$02eaee40$5fc832d2@default> Hans; Thank you for the useful and as always interesting information. Before deciding on the Humbrol Light Grey, I informally colour tested eight other light greys of different manufacturers and paint types. The final decision was made through comparison with various colour profiles, other models, but finally on which one I think looks most "silbergrauish". Maybe I will go back and look at some of these other greys and see if there is anything a little darker that could appropriate...there are so many colour options for this bird... All the Best Neil E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Trauner" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 1:58 AM Subject: [WWI] Re: Pfalz silbergrau Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question > Neil, > I would suggest even different shades of silbergrau. I do have a presumtion > that maybe, perhaps, could be, etc., two different paint formulas where used > for wooden fuselage and linen wings. Real laquer paints where on very short > supply in 1917, but nitro cellulose dope with aluminium pigment was > available. Nitro cellulose dope with pigment is not either easy to spray not > to brush, but there is a intelligence report that the Pfalz was brushed in a > somewhat careless manner, which is a indication for pigmented dope. This > dope would be sufficient for the wings. No idea if the wooden fuselage was > painted in laquer or oil based silver paint, as the nitro cellulose dope > will do it also. But there are definitely darker shades of silbergrau seen > on many Pfalz pics, even on the Dr I. Maybe it's a matter of priming or > fading, whatever. > > Anyway, a darker shade for the wings will overcome the > lozenge-or-not-problem which is especially virulent on Holtzem's bird. > > Dicta Ira rules, as always. > > Hans > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:33:41 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: Re: Your question about the Italian front Message-ID: <004801c26c8c$f72df280$0200a8c0@grzesiek> Larry! > > First artillery attack corrected from air through radio: bombing of Tarnow > > 12 January 1915, aircraft involved was Albatros B.I "Muzzl" from Flik 1, > > Is this true for the entire war or just the eastern front? It would seem that > this would have occurred already on the western front by then. I don't know. I wrote earlier, that this book isn't extremely reliable and often exaggerates some things, especially importance of Galizia region in the World history. (I'm not from Galizia, but from Mazovia - Central part of Poland :-))))))))) Cheers! G. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:42:54 -0400 From: Steven Perry To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Ahh the IPMS out look on : Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <3D9F168E.5080506@tampabay.rr.com> > > Fair question. IPMS USA rules focus on modeling basics and accuracy is very > much a secondary issue. Obviously, the judges may not know whether the > pipes are accurate. Unless something is really off-the-wall (I'm sure one > can think of more agregious example than those exhaust pipes), it rarely > comes into play. The so-called "Basics" are the first criteria for judging: > things like alignment, paint finish, glue blobs, seams, decal silvering and > so on. The basics are common to all plastic models and since judges who also compete rarely judge the category they know most about accuracy & details-wise. It's a trade off, but it provides common ground and avoids quibbles over references and detail accuracy. When Joe Sorehead blusters up and wants to know why he didn't get First Place since he had added every aftermarket accessory available, pointing to his fingerprint enshrined in glue usually settles the matter. I'd like to see a category where models were screened for a defined level of basics at registration. Then judged against the documentation provided by the builder. No judgement on the references themselves. Just how faithfull the documentation was rendered in the model. This way a kero burner could be fairly judged against an OT subject of the same scale. sp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:44:50 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: Re: Yet Another Pfalz Question Message-ID: <006801c26c8e$8607a900$0200a8c0@grzesiek> Hi! This type of the separate exhaust pipes was very common in Austria! Almost all (except D.II and very early D.III) Albies, all Phonixes, all Aviatiks had that exhausts. BTW, Austrian engines had generally better performances than German ones. Cheers! G. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:53:07 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: HR Nieuport 25 decals Message-ID: <007201c26c8f$ae46e4c0$0200a8c0@grzesiek> Dear Lubos! Is any possibility of getting from you sheet of decals from HR Nieuport 25 kit in 1/72? Cheers! Grzegorz Mazurowski Poland WWI List ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:58:45 -0400 From: Karen Rychlewski To: aa-to post Subject: CDL shading Message-ID: <3D9F1A44.8BE05983@earthlink.net> Howdy all Having stockpiled an enormous number of modeling 'tips and tricks' from the venerable folks on this list, I'm in the process of trying things out as I encounter them. The ongoing Hannover is at the 'do one little thing, then sit and wait' stage, so I'm putzing around with a 1/48 kitbashed Austrian Fokker B.I(M10). Started this one 8 or 9 years ago and it collected dust for that time. Under the dust the whole thing is CDL: I'm using the light creamy color, not the (possibly) greenish tone, and am trying to brush paint it with MisterKit Austrian CDL (an interesting experiment in itself, I might add). OK, here's the questions: on the upper wing surfaces, would the ridge of the ribs be lighter (because of pressure) or darker (because of a hint of the wooden rib underneath) than the adjoining stretched surfaces? Would the appearance be the same on the undersides (discounting the 'reverse sag' between the ribs)? And same question for the wooden leading edge? Would the two edges of each rib tape be faintly visible as slightly darker lines? The 'counter-shading' I've read about that some of you do is what exactly? Like the Fokker E.III, the B.I has a metal tube framework in the fuselage. In photos, I don't see much effect of the framework on the fabric; but some profiles (O'Connor's "Air Aces of the A/H Empire") show double lines on the fabric surface at each tube location--is that meant to indicate pressure against the fabric from the inside? Surely it doesn't represent stitching? I'm going to try watercolor and colored pencils for this shading--sounds like fun Karen ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4682 **********************