WWI Digest 4665 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: All quiet on the western front by tbittners@sprintmail.com 2) Re: All quiet on the western front by "Diego Fernetti" 3) Re: All quiet on the western front by tbittners@sprintmail.com 4) Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks by Steve Cox 5) Popeyes plane - was New drawings of Jasta 16b Pfalz and Fokker available by "Fraser" 6) unsubbing for a while by "Fraser" 7) Re: All quiet on the western front by Paul Thompson 8) An other book by Eric GALLAUD 9) Museum Query by "Lance Krieg" 10) Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks by Larry Marshall 11) Re: New drawings of Jasta 16b Pfalz and Fokker available by Larry Marshall 12) Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks by SSH 13) Tired with the XP search Facility, Check this out by snakegamer@yahoo.co.uk 14) Re: All quiet on the western front by "Mike Muth" 15) Itallian Front Questions by Steven Perry 16) Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks by Larry Marshall 17) Re: unsubbing for a while by "Pedro Soares" 18) Cross & Cockade September issue by knut.erik.hagen@login-3.eunet.no (Knut Erik Hagen) 19) Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks by SSH 20) Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks by Tom Plesha 21) Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks by Larry Marshall 22) Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks by SSH 23) Breguet 14 by "Bob Pearson" 24) New Morane-Saulnier L by "Fr. Craig Gavin" 25) thinning out my collection by Allan Wright 26) Re: All quiet on the western front by Crawford Neil 27) Re: Cross & Cockade September issue by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 28) Re: Cross & Cockade September issue by Crawford Neil 29) 稳定压倒一切---中小企业上网的绝佳方案! by webmaster 30) Re: Popeyes plane - was New drawings of Jasta 16b Pfalz and Fokker available by "Diego Fernetti" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:49:12 -0500 (CDT) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: All quiet on the western front Message-ID: <200209241649.g8OGnCp45363@king1.kingsnake.com> On 09-24-2002 11:30 am, D wrote: > Read carefully, chaps he said *slowed* not *stopped*! Well... > Man of little faith! Too many models have been announced and not released. For example, where are the Azur/MPM Salmson 2.A2 and Breguet 14? > C'mon Matt! > Let's-Gooo! Gimme an > S... Gimme a P... Gimme an A.... Gimme a D! What's that SPAAD! Yeahh > Everybody!! Spad-Spad-Spad! Only a little. Actually she does very little for me. Now, Elizabeth Hurley, on the other hand... ;-) Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:07:24 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: Re: All quiet on the western front Message-ID: <023e01c263ec$da560f60$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Matt wrote: > Too many models have been announced and not released. For example, > where are the Azur/MPM Salmson 2.A2 and Breguet 14? True. But hope never dies. > Only a little. Actually she does very little for me. Now, Elizabeth > Hurley, on the other hand... ;-) It's hard to imagine Liz cheering someone... nevertheless... D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:03:05 -0500 (CDT) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: All quiet on the western front Message-ID: <200209241703.g8OH35946520@king1.kingsnake.com> On 09-24-2002 12:07 pm, D wrote: > True. But hope never dies. So true, but I'm not going to hold my breath. :-) > It's hard to imagine Liz cheering someone... nevertheless... Not for me! ;-) Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:59:05 +0100 From: Steve Cox To: Subject: Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks Message-ID: I don't think rotaries burnt the castor oil as such, it was there as the lubricant, not meant to mix, and got thrown out of the exhaust valves by the centrifugal effects of the spinning engine. The Camel had a 5 gallon oil tank right behind the engine, the fuel tanks were behind the pilot (25 gallons). regards Steve =========================================== steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk/steveshome.html http://www.bramptonscalemodelclub.fsnet.co.uk If I didn't spend so much time on line 媼 I'd get some models finished ================ > From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard > Reply-To: wwi@wwi-models.org > Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:43:16 -0400 (EDT) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks > > 1) Oil seems unlikely, since I would have imagined rotaries ran on > petrol/oil mix, and premixing would be a lot more reliable > considering the relative crudeness of the carburettors of the time. > Diego: carburetteurs? > 2) Technique well known in model aircraft for counteracting full-bore > torque, when you don't want to use sidethrust. By all accounts these > aircraft were, ahem, difficult to say the least to take off grass at > full throttle, and applying rudder gives drag. Its a tradeoff thing. > > Just a couple of idle thoughts over a pot of afternoon tea. > N > -- > Nigel Cheffers-Heard > photography + design > > tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 > fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 > mobile: 0771 261 4514 > nigelch@cheffers.co.uk > www.cheffers.co.uk > > Laburnums, Bridge Hill > Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:00:45 +0200 From: "Fraser" To: Subject: Popeyes plane - was New drawings of Jasta 16b Pfalz and Fokker available Message-ID: <001601c263f5$0294f8d0$fe78a8c0@pc145681> Yes, Fraser. No lozenge hidden anywhere on those Pfalz. Aluminium pigmented nitrocellulose solved in amylacetat overall. Alu pigmented Zaponlack. Aka Pfalz silver grey. Thanks Hans, think I'll do it. Popeye ehhh? I'm waiting for Diego to say something about running on extract of spinach and lubricated with Olive Oyl.... or is this in danger of getting unseemly.... arf, arf. F ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:05:26 +0200 From: "Fraser" To: Subject: unsubbing for a while Message-ID: <001801c263f5$03349430$fe78a8c0@pc145681> Pedro wrote: Guys, I'll be off to Prague Tomorrow to go and have a beer or 6 with Michal and Fraser. See you all next Monday Pedro Suppose I better warn him that the temperature just went thru the floor and it's snowing out east.....:~)) F ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:31:43 +0200 From: Paul Thompson To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: All quiet on the western front Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020924212406.00a48d20@pop.xs4all.nl> >Well, albatrosses and spads I like in multiple schemes, but also anything >with distinctive trainer markings like camels and pups. Plus I'm trying to >do at least one of any significant type, in at least 1/72nd and 1/48th. >(10 out of 10 for ambition, even if 0 for grasp of reality). However, >usually, I end up doing one model in a scheme I really like and botching >it as I find/invent problems, and then if it's a type I really find >interesting, I make a second attempt which is built much better but where >I screw up the paint/decalling job. Sometimes I get to try again, and that >one might make it to the Gallery. But only on days when they let me out of >my nice cosy rubber room. DTH (doubt this helps). Paul T. (Now Sticking The bl@@d!ng Gotha wing back on again). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:32:15 +0200 From: Eric GALLAUD To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: An other book Message-ID: <3D90BDBF.55D52B79@club-internet.fr> Hello Listee, I received a copy of the book "Aircraft of the Russian Civil War" today. A lot of interresting scheme, particularly for several Nieuport. It is completely in Russian but Gauntlet International send an English translation, very useful ;-) Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:54:32 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Museum Query Message-ID: Thanks for the input, all. Rhinebeck, as delightful a destination as it is, is much south of my intended route. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:41:07 -0400 From: Larry Marshall To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks Message-ID: <200209241641.07910.larrym@sympatico.ca> > I believe the engines in question (Gnome or LeRhone) had separate > ports for oil and fuel. > The torque balancing theory sounds attractive... I haven't been following closely but I question this notion. First, if the statement about the counterweight was with reference to assymetry in the left/right fuel load. I wonder if they didn't simply get their left and right mixed up in the original sentence. The problem with the notion of using a counterweight in one wing to offset torque is that torque is variable. This is why model airplane guys prefer thrust offsets to any counterweight system (which, at best wouldn't work very well). The other problem is that there are many alternative aerodynamic ways of ofsetting torque (offset rudder, longer left wing, differential wing incidences, offset thrustline) that to sacrifice performance in the form of dead weight in one of the wings (you NEVER want to put large masses in the extremities of an aircraft you want to maneuver in all directions) seems pretty unilkely. Has anyone SEEN this supposed counterweight? Cheers --- Larry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:43:24 -0400 From: Larry Marshall To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: New drawings of Jasta 16b Pfalz and Fokker available Message-ID: <200209241643.24378.larrym@sympatico.ca> > You're right! I never figured how Popeye put on his shirts, his forearms > are wider than the rolled cuffs of the shirt. I thought everyone knew the answer to this. They were drawn on (grin). Cheers --- Larry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:07:07 -0400 From: SSH To: Subject: Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks Message-ID: <20020924210515.3C27B690BE4@mail.mailsnare.net> Larry, >>>>>>..... to assymetry in >the >left/right fuel load. I wonder if they didn't simply get their left >and >right mixed up in the original sentence. ----------- That was my first thought. But why a counterweight at all? As a flight progresses, the center of weight is going to shift laterally if the pilot drains only one tank at a time. So in general, a counter-weight will be counter-productive for about half the flight duration. > >>>>>>....roblem with the notion of using a counterweight in one wing to >offset >torque is that torque is variable. ------- rotaries typically operated at full RPM most of the time, so this is not a big argument. >>>>>well). The other problem is that there are many alternative >aerodynamic ways >of ofsetting torque ----- agree >>>> that to sacrifice performance in the >form of >dead weight in one of the wings (you NEVER want to put large masses >in the >extremities of an aircraft you want to maneuver in all directions) ------ fully agree >>>>>Has anyone SEEN this supposed counterweight? ----- well, I assume the authors talked to somebody, who knew somebody who..... regards Sanjeev ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:41:22 +0100 From: snakegamer@yahoo.co.uk To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Tired with the XP search Facility, Check this out Message-ID: <20020924214201.ZLKK6699.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@thehammer> http://www.findfilesxp.com This program is up to 100 times faster than the XP search, with much more functionality. It has many more features like multiple string searches (With replace options), and can prieview Movies, Pictures and ascii (Text) files, Can search selected drives and folders (and NOT search too). Its also free to try, and only $10 to buy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:35:02 -0400 From: "Mike Muth" To: Subject: Re: All quiet on the western front Message-ID: <005401c2641a$9fec8380$cd35bacc@ptdprolog.net> I sort of like a variety of airplanes in all sorts of markings and in both 1/72 and 1/48...once in awhile in 1/32(?). Having said that it seems like lately I have mostly been building Nieuports, Albatros and Fokker D-VII's. When I got off topic, it is strictly F4F-3/4 Wildcats. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:02:47 -0400 From: Steven Perry To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Itallian Front Questions Message-ID: <3D90EF17.4000304@tampabay.rr.com> The CSM Lohner B.II kit has markings for one machine, C23, with the caption, Isonzo Front, June 1915. Which of the many battles fought there would this have been? What aircraft would the Itallians have been flying there at that time? Are there any accounts of combat with or in Lohner B.IIs? TIA sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:09:12 -0400 From: Larry Marshall To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks Message-ID: <200209241909.12681.larrym@sympatico.ca> > ----------- That was my first thought. But why a counterweight at > all? The most important question of all in my view. > general, a counter-weight will be counter-productive for about half > the flight duration. Sanjeev...if you'll permit me to blow some smoke (as I know nothing of the actual Moran L), here's a possible scenario: Assumptions: The authors mixed up right and left. For purposes of argument, let's assume that the large tank is on the left and the small one is on the right. Let's also assume that there was a weight. If the weight is there to offset the different tank sizes (and you have to wonder why the heck anyone would do this assymetric tank think) I'd make that weight 1/2 of the mass differential when the tanks are full. If the tanks were 70 and 34 gallons as you reported, you'd take off with one side of the aircraft, (70-34)/2 gallons heavier than the other. When you landed nearly empty, you'd have an aircraft that was (70-34)/2 heavier on one side than the other only it's the opposite side from take off :-) Needless to say, this makes little sense to me but it's the only way I can see that it could 'work' as a function of fuel tanks. > >torque is that torque is variable. > > ------- rotaries typically operated at full RPM most of the time, so > this is not a big argument. While true, most people talk about "torque" as a single thing but they're really talking about several effects, only one of which has to do with true axial rotation forces that are opposite to the rotation direction to the engine. For instance, "torque" (in this generic sense) changes with changes in trajectory, with increased "torque" when you pull the stick back to climb, turn, or move the stick back to dive (this is really a precessional effect). A lot of "torque" effects have to do with air, rotating along the axis of the aircraft as a result of a propeller. These forces change as the aircraft changes directions as well. Also, the whole mess changes, whether you change throttle position or not because we're talking about fixed-pitch aircraft here and the engine will load (slow down) in a climb and speed up in a dive. In short (actually pretty long), "torque" effects aren't constant. > >>>>>Has anyone SEEN this supposed counterweight? > > ----- well, I assume the authors talked to somebody, who knew > somebody who..... They've obviously gotten something wrong in their statement. Cheers --- Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 00:42:54 +0100 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: Re: unsubbing for a while Message-ID: <004401c26424$1a73eb80$5a6d16d5@netcabo.pt> Fraser, I was packing when I read your message. Out came the shorts, in went some wool stuff. Don't have time to go out and buy a pair of skis though... Of course, on the plus side the Pivo will be astoundingly cold... (We'll be sure to have a round for you guys that will miss this really international gathering of Listees....) Michal has made a few contacts but unfortunately everybody seems to be busy. I also regret not having heard from Ivan for a while... Got to go pack the rest of the stuff and polish my List Button Regards Pedro ----- Original Message ----- From: Fraser To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 7:04 PM Subject: [WWI] unsubbing for a while > Pedro wrote: > Guys, > > I'll be off to Prague Tomorrow to go and have a beer or 6 with Michal and > Fraser. > > See you all next Monday > > Pedro > > Suppose I better warn him that the temperature just went thru the floor and > it's snowing out east.....:~)) > > F > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:58:01 +0200 (CEST) From: knut.erik.hagen@login-3.eunet.no (Knut Erik Hagen) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Cross & Cockade September issue Message-ID: <20020924235801.6E16934A27@login-3.eunet.no> Hei, Has someone received the September issue of Cross & Cockade? It is supposed to be an RNAS special. Eders Knut Erik ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:02:37 -0400 From: SSH To: Subject: Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks Message-ID: <20020924235907.5919A690BC6@mail.mailsnare.net> Larry, I understand and agree about your point that countering the effects of torque is not as simple as a counter-weight in the wing. I read your hypothesis with interest. I think you are assuming that the two tanks are far from the centreline. Take a look at this pic: http://www.odobenus.net/temp/df-16-a1.jpg As far as I can tell, the two tanks are placed right next to each other, or they are a single integral tank with an internal partition. The bigger of the 2 tanks straddles the centreline. Assuming I read the photo correctly, the only mass differential will be the mass of the partition, or the mass of the two adjacent side walls of the 2 tanks. My assumption about the shape and layout of the tanks is borne out by the position of the filler caps. In top view, one filler cap is on the centre line, the other is to its left. See : http://www.odobenus.net/temp/df-ga72-crop.gif In light of this, any ideas? regards Sanjeev ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:13:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Plesha To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks Message-ID: <20020925001325.57536.qmail@web40306.mail.yahoo.com> Hi SSH- You might want to consider that the tanks are reasonably close to the centerline and the oil consumption and the gas consumptiom would vary, thus maintaining reasonable equilibrium. You could calculate the weight of each as full to see how close they are in overall weight, calculate the consumption and weight of each and then estimate as to whether or not the weight variance may affect the control of the aircraft. .. They would not place the variables, gas and oil, into a position of where the weight and balance or control influence would seriosly be a detriment to the flight as the items are consumed. .. Just a thought of a pilot. .. Later Tom .. --- SSH wrote: > Larry, > I understand and agree about your point that > countering the effects > of torque is not as simple as a counter-weight in > the wing. > > I read your hypothesis with interest. I think you > are assuming that > the two tanks are far from the centreline. Take a > look at this pic: > http://www.odobenus.net/temp/df-16-a1.jpg > As far as I can tell, the two tanks are placed right > next to each > other, or they are a single integral tank with an > internal partition. > The bigger of the 2 tanks straddles the centreline. > Assuming I read > the photo correctly, the only mass differential will > be the mass of > the partition, or the mass of the two adjacent side > walls of the 2 > tanks. My assumption about the shape and layout of > the tanks is > borne out by the position of the filler caps. In > top view, one > filler cap is on the centre line, the other is to > its left. See : > http://www.odobenus.net/temp/df-ga72-crop.gif > In light of this, any ideas? > regards > Sanjeev > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:52:47 -0400 From: Larry Marshall To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks Message-ID: <200209242052.47716.larrym@sympatico.ca> > In light of this, any ideas? I discovered this tonight as I was flipping through some references re-reading your original msg. Clearly, I misread it initially. You can't imagine what my brain has been doing trying to figure out how or why they were trying to stick over a 100 gallons of fuel into a parasol wing :-) Given that the tanks are in the fuselage, I think the Davilla & Soltan statement that you presented doesn't make much sense whatever. Have you found any visual evidence of the existence of this 'counterweight'? It makes no aerodynamic sense at all to me. Here's an interesting thought relative to the anti-torque explanation of a right wing counterweight. If it has a significant effect at all, once you initiate a left turn, and got the mass moving, the counterweight becomes a liability in terms of stopping the turn which would be the hardest to stop if torque were a problem. Cheers --- Larry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:59:27 -0400 From: SSH To: Subject: Re: MoSa-L fuel tanks Message-ID: <20020925005554.4EE88690BC6@mail.mailsnare.net> Tom, I am assuming that the 34 l tank on the left holds oil, and the 70 l tank on right holds fuel. There is supposedly a 3rd tank behind the cockpit which holds 34 l of fuel. According to the RFC tech notes book, the Gnome and the LeRhone consumed oil:fuel in rough ratio of approx 1:4 (down to 1:6). (1.25 - 1.5 gallon per hr oil, 6-7 gallon per hr petrol on a 80HP gnome). So assuming that all tanks were full to start, at end of flight the 104 l of fuel are consumed and 104/4 = 26 l of oil, in other words, roughly 8 l of oil left towards the end of the flight. Assuming oil has sp gr of 1, 8 l of oil weighs 8Kg, or 18 lb. This being centred less than 1 foot off the centreline. I think this is completely insignificant -- there was a probably a larger shift when the pilot burped! regards Sanjeev ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:24:56 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Breguet 14 Message-ID: <103292436501@smtp-2.vancouver.ipapp.com> Hi all, After three years I have finally finished my basic Breguet 14 profile. I am now frantically going through all my references and trying to get a nice collection of them done before Mr.X gets them all in print and I lose interest. Does anyone have photos of French Breguets that are not in Windsock, OTF, C&C(GB/Int), or the FMP French book? There are many really cool French escadrille emblems I am dying to use, but I would prefer to have a photo to work from instead of just doing a conjectural profile. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:36:27 -0500 From: "Fr. Craig Gavin" To: WWI Modelers List Subject: New Morane-Saulnier L Message-ID: This one is for Matt. Just stumbled across this - a new MoS Model "L" from Ardpol. Take a look here: http://www.ardpolmodels.com.pl/ang/oferta72.php?pack=2 There's also something called an Aeromarine 39B. Anybody know anything about this a/c? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:34:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Allan Wright To: wwi Cc: jgibbons@vppsa.com Subject: thinning out my collection Message-ID: <200209250534.BAA05334@mustang.sr.unh.edu> Hi everyone, I just had the chance to go through many boxes of kits that I moved from my old house to my new one. As I unpacked things I did an inventory and found that I have, surprise suprise, way too many kits. Several lifetimes worth in fact. So, in the name of preserving my sanity and saving space in my model room, I'm looking to sell some of my kits. If you're interested please take a look at my disposal list here: http://www.wwi-models.org/kits.html I haven't put any prices on things, I'll get to that if it is necessary. You all know what these things are worth. Send me an e-mail of what you're interested in and what you're willing to pay. If you really don't know ask and I'll come up with a fair price. Shipping costs will be the responsibility of the buyer. I've made ample notes of quality of the kits, but if you want specifics, ask and I'll scan boxes, etc. if you want. Thanks in advance, Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | Without love life's just a long fight - Southside University of New Hampshire +-------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@wwi-models.org Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://www.wwi-models.org =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:26:35 +0200 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: All quiet on the western front Message-ID: > > C'mon Matt! > > Let's-Gooo! > Gimme an > > S... Gimme a P... Gimme an A.... Gimme a D! What's that SPAAD! > Yeahh > > Everybody!! Spad-Spad-Spad! > > Only a little. Actually she does very little for me. Now, Elizabeth > Hurley, on the other hand... ;-) > > > Matt > Liz didn't do much for Hugh Grant either! If Cameron Diaz told me to finish a Spad, I definitely would. How to get this OT, I can, I can! DId any of you see a film called something like "The man who went up a mountain and came down a hill" , Hugh Grant played a surveyor tasked to measure a welsh mountain, it was during WW1 and IIRC he was shell-shocked. It was quite a good film, but flopped somewhat because of poor timing from Hugh (that misadventure in LA.). I recommend it for a quiet evening on the video, a bit like "Local Hero" but perhaps not quite as good. /Neil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:01:04 +0100 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Cross & Cockade September issue Message-ID: Um, can I show my real ignorance? (It was only a matter of time!) I am particularly interested in the RNAS, and would therefore be interested in purchasing a copy of said organ. How/where would one go about such a thing? Thanks for your tolerance, N (feet wet) -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:06:40 +0200 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Cross & Cockade September issue Message-ID: Midland Counties usually has them. /Neil C. > Um, can I show my real ignorance? (It was only a matter of time!) > I am particularly interested in the RNAS, and would therefore be > interested in purchasing a copy of said organ. How/where would one go > about such a thing? > Thanks for your tolerance, > N > (feet wet) > -- > Nigel Cheffers-Heard > photography + design > > tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 > fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 > mobile: 0771 261 4514 > nigelch@cheffers.co.uk > www.cheffers.co.uk > > Laburnums, Bridge Hill > Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:32:43 -0700 (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) From: webmaster To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: 稳定压倒一切---中小企业上网的绝佳方案! Message-ID: <3D916D8F00001AEF@mta01.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) 亲爱的朋友： 　　您好！ 　　这是来自厦门万维科技发展有限公司的问候，感谢您收看这封邮件。如果您已有、或正准备建设网站， 那么请您参观一下我们的网站http://www.onway.net，相信能对您有所帮助。 我们为您提供的以下网站空间都可支持数据库（CGI、PHP、MYSQL、SQL、ACCESS、ASP、JSP），全面 满足您的需求。这将会是您超值的选择。 　　1、30M空间＋30M企业邮局＋1个国际域名，功能全面，仅售240元/年； 　　2、60M空间＋60M企业邮局＋1个国际域名，功能全面，仅售280元/年； 　　3、120M空间＋120M企业邮局＋1个国际域名，功能全面，仅售330元/年； 4、200M空间（美国）＋50个邮箱＋1个国际域名，功能全面，仅售880元/年。 “稳定压倒一切”是全体万维人的服务宗旨，我们郑重承诺： 1、万维主机全部采用原装Dell PowerApp互联网应用服务器； 2、万维主机全部安装正版Turbolinux或Microsoft操作系统； 3、采用世界标准的SNMP进行24x7x365 系统监测； 4、万维主机客户一个月内可无条件全额退款；其它按实际余额退款。 详情请浏览：http://www.onway.net 联系email:sales@onway.net 谢谢！ 　　祝：开心！顺利！ 厦门万维科技发展有限公司 地址：厦门市国贸大厦40层 电话:0592-5819328、5815780、5814120 传真:0592-5888462 --------------------------------------------------------------- 沸点群发邮件,来自软件工程专家网(http://www.21cmm.com) 进CMM网校(http://www.21cmm.com)，成项目管理专家 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:16:19 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: Re: Popeyes plane - was New drawings of Jasta 16b Pfalz and Fokker available Message-ID: <00f201c2647c$975445c0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Fraser wrote: > Popeye ehhh? I'm waiting for Diego to say something about running on extract > of spinach and lubricated with Olive Oyl.... or is this in danger of getting > unseemly.... arf, arf. If one airplane looked as being made out of spinach, I guess that that's the streaked green Fokker D.VII. But a plane that must fit Popeye, it must be the SS D.III: Small, chunky and very overpowered! D. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4665 **********************