WWI Digest 4496 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) re: Roden Gotha G.V by Volker Haeusler 2) OT use of the RLM 25/ was paints in OT times by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 3) RE: Bristol M1c - Rigging by "Graham Hunter" 4) Re: OT use of the RLM 25/ was paints in OT times by "Hans Trauner" 5) Morane Saulnier innards by "Diego Fernetti" 6) Re: A birthday dream, final by a.r.martin@t-online.de (Rita) 7) Drill Bits and Rigging Holes by "Lance Krieg" 8) RE: Bristol M1c - Rigging by Tom Gourdie 9) RE: OT use of the RLM 25/ was paints in OT times by Volker Haeusler 10) Mosca by "Diego Fernetti" 11) re: paints in OT times by "Mark Shannon" 12) re: Roden Gotha G.V by Volker Haeusler 13) RE: Bristol M1c - Rigging by "Michael Kendix" 14) re:Gun accessories by ssh 15) re:Gun accessories by "Lance Krieg" 16) re:Gun accessories by "Diego Fernetti" 17) re: paints in OT times by "Hans Trauner" 18) Re: Morane Saulnier type L & 80 HP LeRhone by ssh 19) Re: Morane Saulnier type L & 80 HP LeRhone by "Lance Krieg" 20) CSM ANNOUNCEMENT by ERIC HIGHT 21) RE: Bristol M1c - rigging by "David C. Fletcher" 22) RE: Bristol M1c - rigging by Steven Perry 23) Re: Magazine question by Eric GALLAUD 24) Re: Magazine question by "Bob Pearson" 25) RE: DR.I on Hyperscale (More WWI) by Shane Weier 26) Re: Happy Birthday by "Mike Muth" 27) re: Roden Gotha G.V by Steven Perry 28) Re: Paints in OT times by "Mike Muth" 29) RE: Candice's Nieuport 21 by "Mike Muth" 30) Re: Neat Site with Walkaround Photos by "Mike Muth" 31) Squasta Meeting by "Mike Muth" 32) OTF Idea by "Mike Muth" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:26:53 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: re: Roden Gotha G.V Message-ID: Grzegorz, > I mean that on Roden's website decals looks generally worse than > they really > are, maybe because of scanning, compression or simply my monitor setings. Definitely not your monitor - they are TOTALLY different to the decals also on MY monitor. Especially that ugly lihght green is actually not there. It might be that they used an early design or "photoshopped" the decals for better contrast... Anyway, Dr. Merrill notes that from existing exxamples (and it seems heīs not only referring to RG ones) the Gothas were painted in "A SIGNIFICANT RANGE IN COLORS", wioth (different) dark shades of mauve, green, grey and blue being used. All that seems certain is the use of 5 different colors per aircraft, and thatīs what provided by the decals. Definitely a case of Dicta Ira over here, Iīd say. And if one wants to be REALLY accurate: No idea how to replicate the different SHAPES of the non-repeating, hand painted lozenges (especially as one will not have access to photos showing all surfaces of one particular aircraft). Therefore I agree: I also like those decals. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:04:52 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: OT use of the RLM 25/ was paints in OT times Message-ID: <01f601c21d22$dd40cbe0$0200a8c0@grzesiek> Hi! I've just fallen in love with the RLM 25 Grun and it is the cause of my question. I wonder if I can use it to paint Prinz Friedrich Karl D.I? Is this shade acceptable? At least you can tell me, what RLM 25 was used for. Cheers! G. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:15:18 -0500 From: "Graham Hunter" To: Subject: RE: Bristol M1c - Rigging Message-ID: <000301c21d24$48c20c20$770101c0@ghunter> Surprisingly I didn't snap any bits doing this :-) All my fine bits break when my hamfistedness catches the bit on something and ping :-( Graham ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:30:29 +0200 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: OT use of the RLM 25/ was paints in OT times Message-ID: <014001c21d26$672f21a0$daab72d4@FRITZweb> Hmm, Grz, judging after Monogram's painting guide RLM 25 is a deep grassy green. According to this publication it was used for 'internal piping'. This "piping was clour coded for maintenance purposes, suing 04, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26. .... Additionally, instructions and symbols realting to maontenance were painted externally to the airframe. " For my eyes this green is too green and too dark, but I don't know what your interpretation of RLM 25 is. Volker opted for more greyish green and as you know, it's hard to make a second impression. I would paint mine therefore in a greenish RLM 02. I would not be surprised if the Prince's paint shop used a greenish Feldgrau, which is definetely a greenish paint. Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 5:08 PM Subject: [WWI] OT use of the RLM 25/ was paints in OT times > Hi! > I've just fallen in love with the RLM 25 Grun and it is the cause of my > question. I wonder if I can use it to paint Prinz Friedrich Karl D.I? Is > this shade acceptable? > At least you can tell me, what RLM 25 was used for. > Cheers! > G. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:27:53 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: Morane Saulnier innards Message-ID: <00f201c21d26$0a7e3040$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Sanjeev! Once Windsock reproduced some Morane G plans from original artwork on "Model Konstruktor" or some other ably named russian magazine. IIRC the same plans were also available from a website, but the URL escapes my feeble memory. Maybe one of the listees would remember. The website was hosted by some eastern european or russian server, that's all I can recall. On the same site there was also drawings for a Gotha G.V and Avro 504, both from the same magazine. Excellent drawings, as far as I remember. HTH D. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:26:58 +0200 From: a.r.martin@t-online.de (Rita) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: A birthday dream, final Message-ID: <17NEh8-0SNbxRC@fwd08.sul.t-online.com> Hi Diego, we thank god that you have finish your Nieuport ride still alive! Very nice little story! Greetings Andreas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:30:04 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Drill Bits and Rigging Holes Message-ID: It's been said before, but bears repeating... .008 guitar strings chucked into a drill are smaller, more flexible, and harder to break than the drill bits. And I devised a little tool to help control the exact placement of holes. I can send a photo and a description to anyone who wants it. I must confess, I don't use it much as I think it is a bit of "over-kill", but it does enable the modeler to rapidly and uniformly position rigging holes around a strut, and use a Dremel to quickly bore many holes without the bit wandering all over the wing surface. Inquire off-list if you have any interest... Lance ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:29:58 +0100 From: Tom Gourdie To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Bristol M1c - Rigging Message-ID: <02Jun26.163114bst.118135@ucas-firewall.ucas.ac.uk> Graham I feel sensitive about this having broken a bit last night while drilling undercarriage holes in a Czech Omega Fokker V25. The hole still has the bit tip in it and its going to be a problem to rectify. Two nights ago I was getting along nicely putting the lozenge on. I dipped my brush in microsol but it turned out to be liquid decal (same shape bottle/same blue colour of print) The wet decal seemed almost to melt before my eyes so I had to strip off all the successfully applied decal (Czech Omega stuff in very limited supply with the kit and not a match with anything else although well enough printed) to replace it with Eagle Strike after having to cut all the sections to the correct shape again. So I seem to be going through an accident-prone phase!! Tom -----Original Message----- From: Graham Hunter [mailto:ghunter@wpgenterprises.ca] Sent: 26 June 2002 16:15 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] RE: Bristol M1c - Rigging Surprisingly I didn't snap any bits doing this :-) All my fine bits break when my hamfistedness catches the bit on something and ping :-( Graham This message is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately. You may not copy it or use this message for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person or take any action based on them. E-Mails are susceptible to interference. UCAS accepts no responsibility for information, errors or omissions in this e-mail nor for its use or misuse nor for any act committed or omitted in connection with this communication. If in doubt, please verify the authenticity of the contents with the sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:52:13 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: OT use of the RLM 25/ was paints in OT times Message-ID: Grzegorz, > Hi! > I've just fallen in love with the RLM 25 Grun and it is the cause of my > question. I wonder if I can use it to paint Prinz Friedrich Karl D.I? Is > this shade acceptable? > At least you can tell me, what RLM 25 was used for. > Cheers! I have RLM 025 as a ot color for identification letters (for Gruppenstab aircraft, but also sometimes used for Geschwaderstaebe, also for RVT colors, eg JG 27). Both the color in the color chart of the old Kookaboora Luftwaffe Paining Guide and the "usual" depiction of this color show something thatīs definitely darker than the tone visible in the PFK D I photo that was recently posted in the Aerodrome forum (great photo BTW). Also, Imrie has the fuselage of the PFK D I on page 31 of the Aircam/Airwar "German Fighter units 1914 - May 1917", and it also shows a very light green - in line with that photo (which I guess Imrie had seen already at that time). VOlker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:33:35 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: "ww1 list" Subject: Mosca Message-ID: <012001c21d26$d6405be0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> The Harleyford book of WW1 fighters have one picture of this plane, but nothing on the underwing braces are visible D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Kendix > I am building the Mosca MB bis and it has a number of similarities with the > MoS monoplanes. I wonder if anyone has come across pictures of the MB? I > see a couple on the russian aircraft site and on the Estonian WW1 site - > only 3 or 4 pictures total appear to exist. > > Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:33:28 -0500 From: "Mark Shannon" To: Subject: re: paints in OT times Message-ID: >It was not possible to tint dope exactly and not all pigments worked. >Hans >( the list chemist will laugh about my statement, but that's what I >understand from my friend...) Nothing to laugh about - tinting nitrocellulose/nitroacetate dopes is a.) bl**dy near impossible b.) d**n tricky c.) no fun d.) liable to cause some very interesting hangovers after some very interesting highs The British did develop some ways with laked pigments early in the war, and that is how they started developing the PC series of dopes, but they relied on multiple coats and it wasn't until near the end of the war that they really felt they had a satisfactory pigment level. The markings were actually applied with oil paints - similar to artist oils. The British had looked at painting the whole aircraft with those and turned it down as too time consuming for drying times. I think the Germans used clear dopes, then painted over to give color and looked for a way to cut short the step and use their home advantage, which was the dye chemical industry. Hence Tarnstoff. The French used the 'tallow' based finishes, then started adding aluminium dust for the opacity, which I believe allowed them to be satisfied with the laked pigments. (see my previous part 2). I am not familiar enough with the Austro-Hungarian and Italian industry practices, but the former appear to have followed the German pattern with home modifications, and the latter the French with similar home-based tinkering. For color fidelity, small differences in particle size (grinding, precipitation) can mean relatively dramatic color shifts to the human eye in a constant chemical composition pigment. .Mark. .Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:57:41 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: re: Roden Gotha G.V Message-ID: Grzegorz, > > I gather there were different types of lozenge used, no? > More, I think. Also Austrians had their own Gothas. > Cheers! Interesting remark. I recently looked on the photos of the Austrian G IVīs in the Grosz et all FMP book, and it seems to me that these aircraft were actually painted in regular hexagons - similar to most AEG G aircraft, but also Aviatiks etc. But rather unusual for Gothas. I also think the aircraft were shown as such in an article in an older Czech L&K magazine. Just wondering: Were they all painted like that, and was that done at LVG (where they came from) of by the Austrians? Volker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:49:48 +0000 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Bristol M1c - Rigging Message-ID: >From: Tom Gourdie > >Two nights ago I was getting along nicely putting the lozenge on. I >dipped >my brush in microsol but it turned out to be liquid decal (same >shape >bottle/same blue colour of print) The wet decal seemed almost >to melt >before my eyes so I had to strip off all the successfully >applied decal... I think I've mentioned this before but there is an unfortunate similarity between the Solvaset bottle and the Pro-Weld bottle - both are about the same height with a little brush in the cap included. As I happily stroked on the stuff to the tailplane decal of a Nieuport 16, that thing literally started "smoking" and I thought "Man, this Solvaset stuff is really strong!" Michael _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:55:42 -0400 From: ssh To: wwi-list Subject: re:Gun accessories Message-ID: <3D199F1100014BAD@mta04.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) Tom, Thanks. Jager Miniatures does have rifles, but not the right shape. regards SSH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:04:29 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: re:Gun accessories Message-ID: Sanjeev, those old Bandai armor kits in 1/48 have military rifles, but if you want a Lebel you are likely to be out of luck. But they can be modified, and turning a rifle into a shotgut by carving the forestock and replacing the barrel with tube(s) seems do-able. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:09:13 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: re:Gun accessories Message-ID: <018501c21d2b$d07c4700$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Some polythene soldier figures are about 1/50 scale. Search any toystore for the right shape of gun, and cut the rifle from the figure. If not, I'm afraid you'll have to scratchbuild it, but that must be easier than carve that 4 bladed propeller. HTH D. ----- Original Message ----- From: ssh To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:57 PM Subject: [WWI] re:Gun accessories > Tom, > Thanks. Jager Miniatures does have rifles, but not the right > shape. > regards > SSH > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:22:54 +0200 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: re: paints in OT times Message-ID: <002001c21d2d$ba07c380$27ac72d4@FRITZweb> Ha! Good to hear, Mark! Concerning AH paints, I would offer a glance to the Aviatik Berg pics on the wwi-models.org-page. It's unrestored. According to a talk with Peter Plattner ( the AH guy with those incedible wooden fuselages...) AH a/c were painted with some paint which was prone to weathering very easily. The overpainted their a/c with some 'clear' laquer which was very yellowish in fact. BTW this turned the grey camo of the Aviatik into green's! They called this laquer a 'firnis', an expression which is still used for a covering laquer for artist's paint jobs. It's interesting also, that the changed from Tarnstoff to paint! But, on the other side, the numbers produced by the AH factories were relatively small, so maybe they did not have those problems like the german industry to that extent. Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Shannon" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 5:35 PM Subject: [WWI] re: paints in OT times > >It was not possible to tint dope exactly and not all pigments worked. > > >Hans > > >( the list chemist will laugh about my statement, but that's what I > >understand from my friend...) > > Nothing to laugh about - tinting nitrocellulose/nitroacetate dopes is > > a.) bl**dy near impossible > b.) d**n tricky > c.) no fun > d.) liable to cause some very interesting hangovers after some very interesting highs > > The British did develop some ways with laked pigments early in the war, and that is how they started developing the PC series of dopes, but they relied on multiple coats and it wasn't until near the end of the war that they really felt they had a satisfactory pigment level. The markings were actually applied with oil paints - similar to artist oils. The British had looked at painting the whole aircraft with those and turned it down as too time consuming for drying times. > > I think the Germans used clear dopes, then painted over to give color and looked for a way to cut short the step and use their home advantage, which was the dye chemical industry. Hence Tarnstoff. > > The French used the 'tallow' based finishes, then started adding aluminium dust for the opacity, which I believe allowed them to be satisfied with the laked pigments. (see my previous part 2). > > I am not familiar enough with the Austro-Hungarian and Italian industry practices, but the former appear to have followed the German pattern with home modifications, and the latter the French with similar home-based tinkering. > > For color fidelity, small differences in particle size (grinding, precipitation) can mean relatively dramatic color shifts to the human eye in a constant chemical composition pigment. > > .Mark. > > .Mark. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:26:54 -0400 From: ssh To: Subject: Re: Morane Saulnier type L & 80 HP LeRhone Message-ID: <3D199F1100017AF7@mta04.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) Lance, Referring to the engine cowling, you said: >>>>> It looks to me that there IS a rear >wall >that connects to the cowl cheek pieces, but that it only goes half >way >down. ---- I too have the same opinion. The only reasons it was in doubt, was: 1- front view in GA. Ian Stair has conciously and explictly depicted a lack of rear wall, 2- the kit part of Eduard 3- Alberto Rada's model on the web-site. 4- a few pics where the wall *might* be absent (could be that specific craft, or the open bottle of Tenax). Points 2, 3 could simply be the result of 1. >>>>>I also did a brief survey of 80 HP LeRhones, and concluded that the >Albatros Spare Parts catalog is the best; it's for the 80 HP version, >and has detail drawings of every component from the throttle >quadrant to >the prop boss. ---- will be purchased. >>>> This, coupled with some of the cutaways found in the >early Nieuport Datafiles, ----- I have none. Do you know which one(s)? By the way, Scale Aircraft Drawing was useful for figuring the engine mounting. Thanks SSH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:33:28 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: Morane Saulnier type L & 80 HP LeRhone Message-ID: Sanjeev: ".. Nieuport Datafiles.... Do you know which one(s)?" Part 1 of the Special comes to mind. This book will be at the Nationals, I'll bet, and you can peruse it there to see if you think it will help. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:22:31 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: CSM ANNOUNCEMENT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020626101650.009ff800@pop.amug.org> hail listlanders, greetings and all that rot!!! we are pleased to announce 5 new german figures in 1/48th and will retail for $6.99 each. they are as follows: 176 standing mechanic 177 kneeling mechanic 178 crouching mechanic 179 pilot for in a/c with arm up 180 pilot for in a/c with arms in lap we also will be re-releasing kit number k1004 1/48th fokker d.v and should be available mid july 2002. price tba but should $40-45 range your dicta ira discount applies as usual. thanks in advance regards, eric copper state models ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:52:55 -0700 From: "David C. Fletcher" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Bristol M1c - rigging Message-ID: <3D19FF77.90202@mars.ark.com> Tom Gourdie wrote: > I'm abysmal with stretched sprue and the last time I used very fine wire it > was saggy! After ploughing through the 77 messages on my server this morning, I can now answer this one. Don't worry about drilling or expensive/hard to find rigging material. Just use sprue, as you already have. When the glue has dried, pass one of those cheap, "pencil" soldering irons near the sprue and the rigging will snap tight and, in my experience, stay tight. I once built a Japanese primary training glider and the rigging was functional - without landing wires, the whole thing would have collapsed. It lasted until the movers dropped it... Dave Fletcher ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:01:29 -0400 From: Steven Perry To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Bristol M1c - rigging Message-ID: <3D1A1D99.9080102@tampabay.rr.com> Just use sprue, as you already have. When the > glue has dried, pass one of those cheap, "pencil" soldering irons near > the sprue and the rigging will snap tight and, in my experience, stay tight. > > I once built a Japanese primary training glider and the rigging was > functional - without landing wires, the whole thing would have > collapsed. It lasted until the movers dropped it... > > Dave Fletcher I have to second Dave here. Stretched sprue is definately functional, especially when CAed. Much stronger in tension than it looks. You can even fix a drooping or warped wing by, after the sprue has beeen glued in place, bending the wing to the correct position and then heating the sprue to tighten it. If the droop or warp isn't to too severe the tightened sprue will hold it in place. You can adjust U/C struts this way too. sp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:07:06 +0200 From: Eric GALLAUD To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Magazine question Message-ID: <3D1A1EEA.3A722F35@club-internet.fr> Hello Grzegorz, hello all, This article talk about the fuselage bands on AH planes : red or black. The author assume that they were all red, on both Flik 60J, 14J and 9J. There are 6 Phonix nice colour profile and some B&W pictures. There is also a good article (in French) about the history of these Flik. I have some scan if you want. Let me know off list Eric Grzegorz Mazurowski a écrit : > > The last one is about the red band on AH planes. > > I have no other issues > > Eric! > Please, write a short resume of that article, I'm very interested. Also a > xerocopy could be useful. > Cheers! > Grzegorz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:28:06 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Magazine question Message-ID: <102512690902@smtp-2.vancouver.ipapp.com> To what sources does the author attribute the all-red bands? Bob ---------- >From: Eric GALLAUD > Hello Grzegorz, hello all, > > This article talk about the fuselage bands on AH planes : red or black. The > author assume that they were all red, on both Flik 60J, 14J and 9J. > There are 6 Phonix nice colour profile and some B&W pictures. There is also a > good article (in French) about the history of these Flik. > I have some scan if you want. Let me know off list > > Eric > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:02:22 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwim'" Subject: RE: DR.I on Hyperscale (More WWI) Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDFE8@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Michael says: > I think it'll be a while >before 1/72nd scale Fokker D.VII's have their own category, unless, of >course we all get busy and attend the US nats. LOL That won't work. Look at how much trouble we had deciding what to do for a cookup. When we all arrived at the US Nats (and assuming the overseas members were also IPMS members and therefore eligible to compete) they might have a hellacious lot of OT models but there's so much anti-conformism here that we'd be lucky to have 10 of the same subject...... Oooooh, and how about getting a concensus on scale? I suspect we'd all agree to disagree, thumb our noses at the follow me brigades and head for the bar for something to wash down the castor oil and a nice game of mess rugby. Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:34:58 -0400 From: "Mike Muth" To: Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Message-ID: <007801c21d61$b65a4e40$3347bacc@ptdprolog.net> Hey, D, Happy Birthday. I hope you have many more. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:02:16 -0400 From: Steven Perry To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: re: Roden Gotha G.V Message-ID: <3D1A47F8.2000604@tampabay.rr.com> > Just wondering: Were they all painted like that, and was that done at LVG (where > they came from) of by the Austrians? > > Volker In Die Flugzeuge der k.u.k. Luftfahrtruppe und Seelieger 1914-1918, There are five machines depicted, 08.02, 08.04, 08.11, 08.12 & 08.20. 08.02 is a profile line drawing, no indication of schemes. Markings appear same as 08.04. Caption says it's an LVG built machine. 08.04 is shown only as a color profile and is all over olive green, black crosses W/narrow white outline, serial # is white. 08.11 is also only color profiled, large regular hexagons on all fabric and around the ply nose. Top decking around cockpit & front gun position appears gray. Olive green nacelles, struts & wheel covers. Markings same as 08.04. 08.12 is a port side 3/4 on photo. It appears to be lozenged in smaller regular hexagons than the profiles of 08.04 & 08.11 show. The nose is very dark and painted a solid color, as are the nacelles, struts and wheel covers. No national markings visible, but a large white weight table painted on the lower edge of the nose under the gun poaition. 08.20 is a starbord side profile photo of the whole plane. Seems to be painted a solid dark color, could be black or dark olive green. Markings same as 08.04. So from strictly photo evidence there were at least two different schemes , so I'd lean toward the idea that the Austrians painted them to suit themselves after they got them. The book has a list of serial numbers and it lists 08.01 - 08.40 as Gotha (LVG) with 2 x 230 Heiro engines. Which raises other questions. Did they buy them sans engines and supply their own? Did they supply their own engines to LVG? sp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:11:38 -0400 From: "Mike Muth" To: Subject: Re: Paints in OT times Message-ID: <00b301c21d66$d3b63a80$3347bacc@ptdprolog.net> . Should German mauve be the same for any German plane > (like RLM paints in WWII) or should it vary, depending on manufacturer or > even production batch? Let me start by saying I am not a chemist, nor was I alive during WWI. However, I spent 2 very long summers (69-70) during college in a Dupont paint factory. While the formulas were followed, it wasn't a strict king of thing. Three fifty pound bags of one chemical, 2 of another, etc. Further, when then was an accident (pumping 300 gallons into 2 100 gallon containers, for example) we simply scraped the lose paint up and mixed it back in. So, even from the same batch, the color could vary! Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:13:25 -0400 From: "Mike Muth" To: Subject: RE: Candice's Nieuport 21 Message-ID: <00cc01c21d67$13c7e6a0$3347bacc@ptdprolog.net> Yeah, I'd like to know the answer to that one too! Mike Muth ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham Hunter To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 3:19 PM Subject: [WWI] RE: Candice's Nieuport 21 > Nice Nieuport Candice. How is it that you get these kits out so fast and > still get in lots of detail? > > Graham > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:18:35 -0400 From: "Mike Muth" To: Subject: Re: Neat Site with Walkaround Photos Message-ID: <010301c21d67$cc7d5cc0$3347bacc@ptdprolog.net> It's especially interesting as the Brussels Museum is absolutely dead > against anyone taking pictures of anything! They'd rather sell you > their crummy postcards. > > Dave Fletcher Really? I was there twice and no one stopped me from taking any photos. The first time, I stopped myself by running out of film and having dead batteries ;-(( Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:20:49 -0400 From: "Mike Muth" To: Subject: Squasta Meeting Message-ID: <010a01c21d68$1bfa7bc0$3347bacc@ptdprolog.net> Attention All DC members...ie Alvie, Mike, Cam and anyone else. I'll be in the DC area on July 12 and 13th. How about a meeting at Kilroy's again? Please reply to me off list. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:23:53 -0400 From: "Mike Muth" To: Subject: OTF Idea Message-ID: <010e01c21d68$94538120$3347bacc@ptdprolog.net> For those of us planning on going to the Over The Front Seminar in September, 03, I have an idea. While I'm sure most of us want to bring a model or two to show off, how about a group project. We have over 14 months and I was thinking that maybe we could do the Jasta 5 lineup at Boisencourt(sp) using the Americal decals as a source. Due to size limitations, it would probably have to be in 1/72, but not necessarily. Anyway, if anyone is interested, let me know and I'll try to keep track of things and see if its a realistic project. Mike Muth ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4496 **********************