WWI Digest 4374 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Model putty.. What do you all use ?? by Crawford Neil 2) Putty by "ZELNICK, KENNETH T" 3) RE: Model putty.. What do you all use ?? by "Diego Fernetti" 4) RE: New uploads by "Diego Fernetti" 5) Re: Pfalz conversions was Eduard news by "Bob Pearson" 6) Zen and the Art of Plastic Modeling by PetersList@aol.com 7) Re: Pfalz conversions was Eduard news by "Harris, Mack" 8) PC10 and PC12 by Tom Gourdie 9) Re: PC10 and PC12 by "Michael Kendix" 10) Re: : Re: Pink or Blue Controversy - take 2 by "Michael Kendix" 11) Re: Pink and Blue Controversy by Peter Fedders 12) Re: PC10 and PC12 by Tom Gourdie 13) RE: Model putty.. What do you all use ?? by John_Impenna@hyperion.com 14) Re: Colour of this Turkish Alb D.II??? by a.r.martin@t-online.de (Rita) 15) Re: : Re: Pink or Blue Controversy - take 2 by Volker Haeusler 16) Re: Colour of this Turkish Alb D.II??? by "Diego Fernetti" 17) Pink or Blue Controversy - take 3 by "Brent Theobald" 18) Re: Lozenge tapes Re: Pink and Blue Controversy by "Hans Trauner" 19) Re: Pink or Blue Controversy - take 3 by "Dale Sebring" 20) RE: Model putty.. What do you all use ?? by "Hans Trauner" 21) Re: Colour of this Turkish Alb D.II??? by Volker Haeusler 22) Re: Colour of this Turkish Alb D.II??? by "Diego Fernetti" 23) Re: Lozenge tapes Re: Pink and Blue Controversy by Volker Haeusler 24) Re: Lozenge tapes Re: Pink and Blue Controversy by "Hans Trauner" 25) Re: Lozenge tapes Re: Pink and Blue Controversy by Volker Haeusler 26) Re: Help for a fellow Brazilian modeler by "Lance Krieg" 27) Re: Lozenge tapes Re: Pink and Blue Controversy by "Mark Shannon" 28) Re: PC10 and PC12 by Larry Marshall 29) Re: : Re: Pink or Blue Controversy - take 2 by "Graham Hunter" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:21:02 +0200 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Model putty.. What do you all use ?? Message-ID: Yes, throw them away! (after carving out the soft bit in the middle of the green one for another couple of years) Actually I do know a cure (seriously!), you keep them in the freezer. You can even mix up a ball, and keep that in the freezer, take it out and warm it with fingers, and it will work perfectly. /Neil C. > Speaking of wich, my Milliput -that has some years- has dried > as well, but > unequally in the gray and yellow sticks. Anybody knows a cure > for this? > D. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 06:32:12 -0500 From: "ZELNICK, KENNETH T" To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Putty Message-ID: <15888960D28CD211AD1900105A24907803EC9666@ano-exs02.ano.entergy.com> Greetings all, Sorry for the late response, it's a consequence of digest (List Purgatory) mode. I use Squadron White, mainly because it's the first kind I found, and because I'm still on the same tube several years later. At the rate I model, it will last me forever. HTH, Ken Zelnick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 08:37:45 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: Model putty.. What do you all use ?? Message-ID: <027d01c1f1cd$c74d34c0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> The freezer? I'm worried that perhaps mom will confuse it with cheese. Tell me about a bad case of constipation D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Crawford Neil To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 8:23 AM Subject: [WWI] RE: Model putty.. What do you all use ?? > Yes, throw them away! (after carving out the soft bit in the middle > of the green one for another couple of years) > > Actually I do know a cure (seriously!), you keep them in the freezer. > You can even mix up a ball, and keep that in the freezer, take it > out and warm it with fingers, and it will work perfectly. > /Neil C. > > > > > Speaking of wich, my Milliput -that has some years- has dried > > as well, but > > unequally in the gray and yellow sticks. Anybody knows a cure > > for this? > > D. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:09:34 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: New uploads Message-ID: <02b601c1f1d2$39691a20$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Wonderful new builds. And two bebes (one of them updated by Allan) The stained wood fuselage made by Jean-Marie (I guess that this sound more likely as a name than Maire Jean, Matt) is wonderful. And the pictures of him working sure proves that many of us would be taken as relatives because we look quite alike. Of course the little earring is something I wouldn't wear... ;-) of interest is too the little stool Jean uses to paint. I'll see if I can make my own, looks rather useful. Eric, the other gaulois, shows a beautiful beautiful beautiful F. bomber with a lovely finish. In fact I like his much more than the model build article featured in Windsock months ago. The nacelle struts must have been nightmarish. Tres jolie, Eric, c'est une maquette bien rangé et je crois que terriblement près de la vraie chose, par Toutatis! Another prolific modeler is Bill. Certainly it's inspiring to see your models. The CDL of the nieuport looks great. It's airbrushed? Well done guys, it's a honour to share the list with you. D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Bittner To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:35 AM Subject: [WWI] New uploads > Bill Arnold sent in images of three new models, all three > superbly done (but one that looks oh-so much better than the > others ;-)). Plus, Maire Jean-Pascal sent in images of his > in-progress Albatros Dr.I. Excellent! > > > Matt Bittner > WW1 Modeling Page > Assistant Editor > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 21:05:01 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Pfalz conversions was Eduard news Message-ID: <102031241201@smtp-1.vancouver.ipapp.com> The A.I was flown by the Bavarian Fl.Abt 9b in the Alps in 1915 with red/white stripes on the fuselage and tail .. I did a profile of this in an issue of Internet Modeler about 1 1/2 years ago. .. I think it was in October or November 2000 .. a feature on German two seaters. Others were in CDL and black. .. with a b/w diagonal stripe - this was the usual marking for Fl.Abt 9b. I have a few different aircraft with these markings on the CD .. Bob ---------- >From: Larry Marshall >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WWI] Re: Pfalz conversions was Eduard news >Date: Wed, May 1, 2002, 8:27 pm > > >> The Pfalz A.I was the L under license. . when a gun was added it >> became the E.III. The L also had two styles of u/c .. there was an >> early short nose and a later long nose that necessitated the change >> in u/c. > > Thanks for this clarification, Bob. I've sure learned a lot about > Pfalz monoplanes today :-) Was the A.I flown by Bavarians under > no-war conditions? Did they sport the nifty red paint schemes or > were they the same as the E-series monoplanes with CDL and black edge > tapes? > > Cheers --- Larry > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 08:41:12 EDT From: PetersList@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Zen and the Art of Plastic Modeling Message-ID: <112.10e6b619.2a028de8@aol.com> The latest from Harry Woodman is that Nexus Publcations no longer have publishing rights on his works and all contracts and work in progress have passed a new company "Special Interest Model Books Ltd" . The manuscript of his new work "Modeling Vintage Aircraft" (based on SMAc in PC) is still in the hands of the original editor who is now part of the new company. I don't think the great man is best pleased and I can't say I blame him. At least though he now knows that door is closed and can follow his other options, of which there were three at the last count. Now, all face East Sheen and repeat after me...........ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm cheers Peter L ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 07:48:57 -0500 From: "Harris, Mack" To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Pfalz conversions was Eduard news Message-ID: (snip) The L also had two styles of u/c .. there was an early short nose and a later long nose that necessitated the change in u/c. Bob Bob, do you know what caused the short nose and long nose? Was it the difference in engines possibly? thanks Mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:27:55 +0100 From: Tom Gourdie To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: PC10 and PC12 Message-ID: Does anyone have any opinions on which Humbrol paints straight out of the tin could pass muster as PC10 and PC12? I'm not being lazy over mixing my own or anything like that. I simply have great difficulty with visualising what's reasonably accurate and what isn't, bearing in mind that PC10 in particular is variously described as being accurate at both the green and brown ends of the spectrum. Thanks. Tom Tom Gourdie Regional Group Coordinator Outreach Department The Universities and Colleges Admissions Service (UCAS) Tel: 01242 544878 Fax: 01242 544954 E-mail: t.gourdie@ucas.ac.uk Website: http://www.ucas.com Registered Office: Rosehill, New Barn Lane, Cheltenham, Glos GL52 3LZ Registered Company Number: 2839815 Registered Charity Number: 1024741 This message is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately. You may not copy it or use this message for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person or take any action based on them. E-Mails are susceptible to interference. UCAS accepts no responsibility for information, errors or omissions in this e-mail nor for its use or misuse nor for any act committed or omitted in connection with this communication. If in doubt, please verify the authenticity of the contents with the sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 13:39:05 +0000 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: PC10 and PC12 Message-ID: >From: Tom Gourdie > >Does anyone have any opinions on which Humbrol paints straight out of >the >tin could pass muster as PC10 and PC12? I'm not being lazy over >mixing my >own or anything like that. I simply have great difficulty >with >visualising what's reasonably accurate and what isn't, bearing in >mind >that PC10 in particular is variously described as being accurate >at both >the green and brown ends of the spectrum. Tom: Don't know about Humbrol because I don't have the sheet of colours in front of me, however, for PC-10 in acrylics I used British Dark Earth on a Strutter - see http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Kendix/SopStrutter/index.html This matches to some extent, the colour of the WW1 stuff at RAF Hendon like the Sopwith Triplane. Don't know about PC-12 though. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 13:50:26 +0000 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: : Re: Pink or Blue Controversy - take 2 Message-ID: So, it appears there are at least two competing ideas. One that thinks the rib tapes should be a continuous length, wrapped around both sides of the wing. This would imply a constant colur fr any rib tapes used. Another idea suggests the rib tapes could be separate for the upper and lower sides, which means they could be different colours for each side. Then their was Volker or Hans' (I forget which said it) idea that the B&W picture looked like the lozenge tape might be different from the lozenge surface. Have I got it straight yet? Michael Shane Weier writes: >Which assumes that you believe that load of old bulldust Superscale >taught >modellers about "Blue tapes top, pink tapes bottom" and Sandy writes: >From: "Sandy Adam" >>Hmmmm..... This is certainly odd from an engineering and stresses >>standpoint. in two ways. First, it puts a sewn seam in a >>strengthening >>tape at a point of maximum stress, and second, it puts >>a sewn seam in a >>tape that is used to cover stitching in the wing >>fabric. > >FWIW, IMHO, I disagree. I think the strength comes from doping the >strip >to the structure. ie while the strip would certainly be weakened >if >stitched and then pulled, it is not! It is doped to the wing in a >similar >fashion to pasting on bits of paper in papier mache >constructions and the >strength comes from the layers bonded together. > >I doubt they put any stitches in the LE of the strips. I would expect >them >to dope on the upper strip and trim; dope on the lower strip and >trim, >then dope on the LE strip, thereby sealing in all the LE edges. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 08:50:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Fedders To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Pink and Blue Controversy Message-ID: It is "known" that the rib tapes on the AEG GIV were all pink ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:58:00 +0100 From: Tom Gourdie To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: PC10 and PC12 Message-ID: Michael I really like your PC 10 Strutter. Photos two and three in particular could almost pass as the real 1:1 thing! Great work! Now why don't I just give up... Tom -----Original Message----- From: Michael Kendix [mailto:mkendix@hotmail.com] Sent: 02 May 2002 14:41 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] Re: PC10 and PC12 >From: Tom Gourdie > >Does anyone have any opinions on which Humbrol paints straight out of >the >tin could pass muster as PC10 and PC12? I'm not being lazy over >mixing my >own or anything like that. I simply have great difficulty >with >visualising what's reasonably accurate and what isn't, bearing in >mind >that PC10 in particular is variously described as being accurate >at both >the green and brown ends of the spectrum. Tom: Don't know about Humbrol because I don't have the sheet of colours in front of me, however, for PC-10 in acrylics I used British Dark Earth on a Strutter - see http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Kendix/SopStrutter/index.html This matches to some extent, the colour of the WW1 stuff at RAF Hendon like the Sopwith Triplane. Don't know about PC-12 though. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com This message is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately. You may not copy it or use this message for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person or take any action based on them. E-Mails are susceptible to interference. UCAS accepts no responsibility for information, errors or omissions in this e-mail nor for its use or misuse nor for any act committed or omitted in connection with this communication. If in doubt, please verify the authenticity of the contents with the sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:30:36 -0400 From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Model putty.. What do you all use ?? Message-ID: Hi All, I use: -Milliput for building up. -CA for small, quick fills. Esspecially on resin..Add some talc or baking soda for larger fills. -automotive body putty for seams and holes that aren't too deep..Either 3M Acryl Blue or Bondo Scratch filler. The Bondo is a thin red, very fine grained putty...Much finer and thinner than either Squadron Green or White. Also, laquer based, so it adheres and smooths out really well even in small scratches and seams. . Both tubes of mine are at least 3 years old and neither has shown any signs of drying out. -Mr Surfacer 500/1000 for really fine scratches, too small to get putty to stay in. Regards, John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:45:12 +0200 From: a.r.martin@t-online.de (Rita) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Colour of this Turkish Alb D.II??? Message-ID: <173HpY-23pGYiC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> Hi Ross, the same pic you can also find in the Windsock Datafile No. 11, Albatros D.II. The Datafile give to this pic the opinion that there where no differences in color between German and Turkish Alb D.II. Maybe this Turkish D.II had the darker redbrown fuselage? Greetings Andreas Ross Moorhouse schrieb: > http://204.83.160.230/archive/w/images/AlbD2_Turkey.jpg > > Anyone hazzard a guess of Emil Meinecke's D.II colours for me?? > > Cheers > > Ross > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:31:03 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: : Re: Pink or Blue Controversy - take 2 Message-ID: Just came back from a biz trip to S´pore, and therefore missed out the start of that discussion - sorry for anyy repeats therefore.... But on Michaels remark: > So, it appears there are at least two competing ideas. One that > thinks the > rib tapes should be a continuous length, wrapped around both sides of the > wing. This would imply a constant colur fr any rib tapes used. > Another idea > suggests the rib tapes could be separate for the upper and lower sides, > which means they could be different colours for each side. Then > their was > Volker or Hans' (I forget which said it) idea that the B&W picture looked > like the lozenge tape might be different from the lozenge surface. > While I can´t remember any comment from my side on this issue before, (so it must have been Hans?), I´m quite sure that the rib tapes were *always* (with the usual remarks on standards in WW I aircraft: there´s always an exception to a rule - but it will not be more than this in this case) a wrap around thing - that means same color above and below the wings. Typical effect resulting from this can be seen in the photos of D VII 4635/18 (that´s Heinz Beaulieu-Marconnay´s "U 10") on p 2 of Fokker D VII Anthology 2 and even better on the lower wing surface of a D VII on the lower photo on p 8 of the anthology. use of pink, blue, upper or lower surface tapes more determined by manufacturer and sheer availability than anything else IMHO... Volker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:57:55 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: Re: Colour of this Turkish Alb D.II??? Message-ID: <03fd01c1f1e9$bdcbab40$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> As a matter of fact, after the thread on this I searched the C&C cover, looked at it intensely and wished it were more clear copy (ahh if I had many original prints!) Someone noted that the upper fuselage had a different -camo- colour other tahn varnished wood. I beg to differ about that, but I noticed on the picture a different lighter shade along the edge of the slab side, only near the cockpit. My guess is that the varnish was a little worn in that area. Only that. My two devaluated centavos D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rita To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 11:47 AM Subject: [WWI] Re: Colour of this Turkish Alb D.II??? > Hi Ross, > > the same pic you can also find in the Windsock Datafile No. 11, Albatros D.II. > The Datafile give to this pic the opinion that there where no differences in > color between German and Turkish Alb D.II. Maybe this Turkish D.II had the > darker redbrown fuselage? > > Greetings > Andreas > > Ross Moorhouse schrieb: > > http://204.83.160.230/archive/w/images/AlbD2_Turkey.jpg > > > > Anyone hazzard a guess of Emil Meinecke's D.II colours for me?? > > > > Cheers > > > > Ross > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:04:42 +0000 From: "Brent Theobald" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Pink or Blue Controversy - take 3 Message-ID: Howdy! Let's see if I can play Devil's Advocate for a moment... How would you use a single rib tape on wings that are swept back but also have ribs parallel to the line of flight? The rib tape could not cover both sides of the rib without bunching up at the leading edge or being cut. This is where where the change in angle would make wrapping the tape around the leading edge impossible. I don't think this is the case on many fighters. It is the case on the Fredrichshaven G.III's. This is only an idea that separate rib tapes for top and bottom might not have been uncommon. Have a good one! Brent _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:30:51 +0200 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: Lozenge tapes Re: Pink and Blue Controversy Message-ID: <000701c1f1ee$57d26040$eeaa72d4@FRITZweb> It's not much I can contribute, but please note the Halberstadt pics on the mother-of-all-WWI-pages. http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Ger/Halb_ClIV/htcliv_09.jpg shows underside loz tapes for the underside and http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Ger/Halb_ClIV/htcliv_10.jpg for topside and leading edge. Two different tapes *could* be used - albeit no proof for blue top and salmon lower tapes! Hans ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:28:15 -0600 From: "Dale Sebring" To: Subject: Re: Pink or Blue Controversy - take 3 Message-ID: <002201c1f1ed$fc359e00$0100a8c0@RDS> Brent, after covering several aircraft with both cotton & polyester fabric, you can curve both fabrics quite nicely, especially cotton, when dope is applied & soaks into the weave. Hope this helps. Best to all , Dale > Howdy! > > Let's see if I can play Devil's Advocate for a moment... > > How would you use a single rib tape on wings that are swept back but also > have ribs parallel to the line of flight? The rib tape could not cover both > sides of the rib without bunching up at the leading edge or being cut. This > is where where the change in angle would make wrapping the tape around the > leading edge impossible. > > I don't think this is the case on many fighters. It is the case on the > Fredrichshaven G.III's. > > This is only an idea that separate rib tapes for top and bottom might not > have been uncommon. > > Have a good one! > > Brent > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:39:41 +0200 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: RE: Model putty.. What do you all use ?? Message-ID: <006101c1f1ef$9362fba0$eeaa72d4@FRITZweb> Beside the well known Tamiya, Cyano, automotive two-component putty I am still using standard 'oil putty' used for painter's work from the next DIY store. It's cheap and lasts long. Biggest advantage: it can be thinned with turps, white spirit or acetone. Disadvantage: If thinner is used, it shrinks. But sometimes filler has to be applied with a paint brush because it will be hard to control with other instruments. Hans ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:56:15 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Colour of this Turkish Alb D.II??? Message-ID: Diego, > As a matter of fact, after the thread on this I searched the C&C cover, > looked at it intensely and wished it were more clear copy (ahh if > I had many > original prints!) Someone noted that the upper fuselage had a > different -camo- colour other tahn varnished wood. > I beg to differ about that, but I noticed on the picture a > different lighter > shade along the edge of the slab side, only near the cockpit. My guess is > that the varnish was a little worn in that area. Only that. > My two devaluated centavos The "someone" was me - see the quote of Ross from the other forum. However: My point is not that there is more than one color on the upper surface - there´s definitely only one. But there is a clearly visible light color in the tail and nose area on the lower part of the fuselage (ie, the fuselage undersurfaces). This light color is *not* usually there on the "dark stained" D II´s - examples for the last include Jasta 9 aircraft (like the one of Student and Koehler), Jasta 14 and Jasta 23 aircraft, but also the captured D II 473/16. All of these aircraft show dark stain, but a uniform fuselage color *including the lower surfaces* (ie, no light colored lower surfaces). Then again, there are at least three clearly *camouflaged* D II´s I´m aware of (D II 916/16, Max Boehme, Jasta 5, captured as G 14 on March 4, 1917, the "white 18" of Jastaschule Valenciennes, 1917, finally an unidentifeid example of a camouflaged D II shown on the center photo of page 19 of the Flugzeug Profile of the D II), and *they all* show the light colored lower fuselage as the Meinecke aircraft does. Therefore my opinion is that the Meinecke aircraft haad some sort of camouflage and not just fuselage staining - but it seems to be single color only in this case. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:00:01 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: Re: Colour of this Turkish Alb D.II??? Message-ID: <046101c1f1f2$6aa71900$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Hey! > The "someone" was me - see the quote of Ross from the other forum. I'm sorry Volker, I had forgot who was the person who contributed on the Aerodrome > My point is not that there is more than one color on the upper surface - > there´s definitely only one. AAAHHHH! I didn't understood, then. I believed that you made a point saying that the "upper" curved area of the fuselage may be painted red-brown like the wings, in a scheme akin of the Bf **9 of WW2. > But there is a clearly visible light color in > the tail and nose area on the lower part of the fuselage (ie, the fuselage > undersurfaces). Agreed, then! > This light color is *not* usually there on the "dark > stained" D II´s I agree with you. However there are several D.I and D.IIs paited with the blue belly, I can't say if ex-works or not, but seems like a quite common feature. I like it, and I would have done it in my Pegasus if the airplane wouldn't have been turkish with those clumsy squares. The crosses look a lot better to me! > Therefore my opinion is that the Meinecke aircraft haad some sort of > camouflage and not just fuselage staining - but it seems to be single color > only in this case. Only in the lower surfaces. We agree here. I'm sorry to misunderstanding your explanation. D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:11:10 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Lozenge tapes Re: Pink and Blue Controversy Message-ID: Just remembered that there was a thread on lozenges and rib tapes in the "other" forum recently; not much, but look also under: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=models&action=display&num=1 004398322&start=15 (that´s the second page - page 1 contains DSA comment on rib tapes) . Hans: > It's not much I can contribute, but please note the Halberstadt > pics on the > mother-of-all-WWI-pages. > http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Ger/Halb_ClIV/htcliv_09.jpg shows > underside loz tapes for the underside and > http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Ger/Halb_ClIV/htcliv_10.jpg for > topside and > leading edge. Two different tapes *could* be used - albeit no > proof for blue > top and salmon lower tapes! > WHile I also think that there will be samples of differeent upper and lower surfaces, üplease note that the photos in question (nice ones BTW) show *restorations with the Silberstreif fabric*. While the MVT did a good job, they did not get everything right - the wrong color scheme on the Cl IV for the Air Force Museum is a good example. If one looks on a photo of a Halberstadt wing *before* restauration (like on page 94 of the Krzyan/Steinle book on the restauration job: "Die Halberstadt Cl IV D-IBAO"), this seems to indicate darker color tapes on the lower surface (but then this might be my interpretation only). Volker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:24:00 +0200 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: Lozenge tapes Re: Pink and Blue Controversy Message-ID: <000d01c1f1f5$c4802ae0$96ac72d4@FRITZweb> If one looks on a photo of a > Halberstadt wing *before* restauration (like on page 94 of the > Krzyan/Steinle book on the restauration job: "Die Halberstadt Cl IV > D-IBAO"), this seems to indicate darker color tapes on the lower surface > (but then this might be my interpretation only). > > Volker Hmm. I am not sure. If you take the pic on page 100 it looks like the same tonal value... Hans ( Ansonsten alles klar bei Dir da unten?? H.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:38:44 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Lozenge tapes Re: Pink and Blue Controversy Message-ID: Hans, > > Hmm. I am not sure. If you take the pic on page 100 it looks like the same > tonal value... > Actually, I would think that the p 100 photo also shows some variation7darker rib tapes - but again, that´s maybe interpretation only. But looking on the 4 photos on p 102, they actually seem to indicate no contrast or even lighter rib tapes. And all show the same wing it seems. Very strange indeed... Volker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:31:14 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: Help for a fellow Brazilian modeler Message-ID: 244/18 is an early Fokker product, streaky green fuselage over CDL with 4 color lozenge wings and the usual other early-Fokker coloration. The fuselage crosses were modified and so the area upon which they appear has been overpainted; this is traditionally shown as olive. The traditional depiction has a yellow script "AH" on the center section of the top wing, but GvW believes this to be a blemish. In all events, Superscale/Microscale at one point provided this decal, along with the checkered tail, on their D.VII sheets. The modeller needed to paint the nose the Jasta 10 yellow. My model of a closely related machine is on the site, and was the result of considerable research, if it is helpful: http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Krieg/German/index.html Lance ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:41:37 -0500 From: "Mark Shannon" To: Subject: Re: Lozenge tapes Re: Pink and Blue Controversy Message-ID: There is only one problem with those photos, and that is the restoration. I know great care was taken to be as authentic as humanly possible in this restoration, but I would like to see the restoration records. That is, were they restoring a previous restoration? Did they have written documentation of the method used (I hope, I hope, I hope)? Were they matching the surviving fabric and tapes? Were they relying on Ferko's, or Abbot's, or ______ research results? My memory is that they were matching swatches from the aircraft, but I do not know if those swatches had all the detail of the fabric, stitching, and tapes applications; nor whether the fabric was replaced at some part of the aircraft's museum history. Was this typical for this manufacturer? Was this typical for other manufacturer's? Unfortunately, we have one answer in these pictures and this aircraft, it is not necessarily unequivocal, and is not thoroughly definitive. That is the problem we always face in this type of research, which makes it so much fun. It's a lot like my days in studying math - the assignment is to prove or disprove a theorem. The choices were to spend reams and reams of paper to work out a proof, or find the counterexample that refuted the theorem. A counter example would take a minute - if you can find one in the infinite possibilities..... .Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:58:13 -0400 From: Larry Marshall To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: PC10 and PC12 Message-ID: <20020502170034.JIBR11368.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> > Does anyone have any opinions on which Humbrol paints straight out > of the tin could pass muster as PC10 and PC12? I'm not being lazy #155 is supposed to be FS34087 which is on the green end of the PC10 range. Looks pretty good to me. I sprayed some yesterday just to see what it looked like. Cheers --- Larry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:26:00 -0500 From: "Graham Hunter" To: Subject: Re: : Re: Pink or Blue Controversy - take 2 Message-ID: <000101c1f1fe$6ee0d4a0$770101c0@ghunter> The Pfalz D.XII at Le Bourget has pink tapes top and bottom. http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Ger/Pfal_DXII/index.html The Fokker D.VII at Le Bourget also has pink tapes top and bottom http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Ger/Fok_DVII/index.html The Albatros D.Va at the Austrailia War Museum has pink tapes on bottom main planes and pink on top of tailplane, so I assume pink on top of main planes as well. http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Ger/Alb_DV/index.html Three examples of one colour rib tapes. Graham ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4374 **********************