WWI Digest 4269 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Oops! was: Re: USS Ward plans, armament by Volker Haeusler 2) RE: Revell collectors series was RE: Re: Revell DH2 was by Crawford Neil 3) RE: Oops! by Crawford Neil 4) RE: Revell collectors series was RE: Re: Revell DH2 was by "Diego Fernetti" 5) RE: Oops! by "Diego Fernetti" 6) Anti-aircraft weaponry by Tom Gourdie 7) RE: Oops! by John_Impenna@hyperion.com 8) RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry by "Diego Fernetti" 9) AeroMaster Decals by Balzer Mr Gregory P 10) RE: AeroMaster Decals by Crawford Neil 11) RE: Oops! by "ot811" 12) RE: AeroMaster Decals by "Diego Fernetti" 13) Re: AeroMaster Decals by "Brian Nicklas" 14) RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry by Balzer Mr Gregory P 15) Re: AeroMaster Decals by "Lance Krieg" 16) RE: AeroMaster Decals by Balzer Mr Gregory P 17) Re: AeroMaster Decals by "Lance Krieg" 18) RE: AeroMaster Decals by Tom Gourdie 19) Re: AeroMaster Decals by Balzer Mr Gregory P 20) RE: Oops! by "Diego Fernetti" 21) RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry by "Lee M." 22) RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry by tbittners@sprintmail.com 23) RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry by "Lee M." 24) RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry by "Lee M." 25) RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry by tbittners@sprintmail.com 26) RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry by tbittners@sprintmail.com 27) RE: A/G decals by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 28) Re: Trench by "Sandy Adam" 29) RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry by "David C. Fletcher" 30) Re: Part and SPAD by "Ross Moorhouse" 31) 1/48th Strutters by Paul Thompson 32) Re: Anti-aircraft weaponry by CoolSpadLuke@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:10:31 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Oops! was: Re: USS Ward plans, armament Message-ID: Hell, I did it again! That message was meant for Rory offlist - sorry for the ot content (but then the Ward is basically also OT) Volker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:56:17 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Revell collectors series was RE: Re: Revell DH2 was Message-ID: Thanks John, Sounds like it might be possible after all. It would be worth a few brownie points to actually make the model from the Revell kit, and not have to admit using the Eduard(?) kit. And we do have to remember that D still hasn't actually finished his Albatross;-) /Neil C. > Hi Neil, > That's basically what I have done with an Entex kit, which is > a copy of the > Revell kit...Once you sand the sies flat and add the panel > lines, it sure > looks like a D.III..Now, my level of anality does not force > me to quibble > if the outline is off a few mm, but it matches up pretty well against > plans...But like I said, it looks like a D.III!!! YMMV. > > Regards, > John > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:04:03 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Oops! Message-ID: Which makes me think of something I was discussing off-list with Greg yesterday. Most of us have various off-list conversations going on, which is fine, so long as it's ot. But it isn't always, and that means I'm missing out when the rest of you are doing it, not when I do it myself! Can we try and keep on-topic stuff on the list, and only go off-list when we have to. For instance USS Ward which is actually on-topic, so I think it's at least a little bit interesting. Not that I mind talking off-list, I enjoy it, but it does mean less on-list. Am I making sense? /Neil C. > -----Original Message----- > From: Volker Haeusler [mailto:haeusler@tm.net.my] > Sent: den 19 mars 2002 16:53 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Oops! was: Re: USS Ward plans, armament > > > Hell, I did it again! > > That message was meant for Rory offlist - sorry for the ot > content (but then > the Ward is basically also OT) > > Volker > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:10:43 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: Revell collectors series was RE: Re: Revell DH2 was Message-ID: <043001c1cf60$9f4083e0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Ahh too late, Neil! I finished the Albatros D.II in the first days of last month. Photos soon, as they're in a roll still to be developed (along with some new shots of the SVA10 fuse) D. PS. Mi Pegasus D.III is still in its box, cleaned up from the sprue attachments but nothing else since.... :-( ----- Original Message ----- From: Crawford Neil > Thanks John, Sounds like it might be possible after all. > It would be worth a few brownie points to actually make the > model from the Revell kit, and not have to admit using the > Eduard(?) kit. And we do have to remember that D still hasn't > actually finished his Albatross;-) > /Neil C. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:15:11 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: Oops! Message-ID: <043601c1cf61$3ebf8240$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> ----- Original Message ----- From: Crawford Neil Can we try and keep on-topic stuff on the > list, and only go off-list when we have to. For instance USS Ward > which is actually on-topic, so I think it's at least a little bit > interesting. I agree! You always learn something new and interesting, as the Jutland bit that were brought by Knut, from an original thread of mine with that phony urban legend (no doubt, it'll be back to haunt other newslists in the future...) > Not that I mind talking off-list, I enjoy it, but it does mean > less on-list. > Am I making sense? Yeah! D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:24:52 -0000 From: Tom Gourdie To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: In an idle moment the use of anti-aircraft guns between 1914-18 crossed my mind - a random thought but I am prone to bizarre random thinking. How did these early guns work in the sense of range-finding etc? How did the various combatants devise weaponry or rather instrumentation/calibration which could reasonably accurately determine and find an aircraft's altitude, work out the deflection needed etc? I assume they must have had some forms of altitude-sensitive fuses since they surely did not rely on direct hits to bring aircraft down. Also, how effective were the early anti-aircraft guns and were they modified ground artillery weapons? You will gather that I do not have a clue about this aspect of the hostilities and I am probably asking a big question which needs long answers but if anyone can chip in with some knowledge...! TIA Tom Tom Gourdie Regional Group Coordinator Outreach Department The Universities and Colleges Admissions Service (UCAS) Tel: 01242 544878 Fax: 01242 544954 E-mail: t.gourdie@ucas.ac.uk Website: http://www.ucas.com Registered Office: Rosehill, New Barn Lane, Cheltenham, Glos GL52 3LZ Registered Company Number: 2839815 Registered Charity Number: 1024741 This message is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately. You may not copy it or use this message for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person or take any action based on them. E-Mails are susceptible to interference. UCAS accepts no responsibility for information, errors or omissions in this e-mail nor for its use or misuse nor for any act committed or omitted in connection with this communication. If in doubt, please verify the authenticity of the contents with the sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:33:51 -0500 From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Oops! Message-ID: I agree totally, Neil...The USS Ward is a favorite of mine...I have a few different versions of her to build in her different configurations...I didn't know about her #1 mount still existing!!! This is very interesting..Where is it located???? This is exactly what Diego is talking about!!!!! Regards, John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:37:23 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: <048101c1cf64$591c7140$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Tom! > In an idle moment the use of anti-aircraft guns between 1914-18 crossed my > mind - a random thought but I am prone to bizarre random thinking. Most of the listees have this quality, included me. Don't worry, it has no cure. > How did these early guns work in the sense of range-finding etc? How did > the various combatants devise weaponry or rather instrumentation/calibration > which could reasonably accurately determine and find an aircraft's altitude, > work out the deflection needed etc? Artillery was a highly developed science by 1914. The range or altitude of the aircraft was calculated by optical instruments by one or more observers in the field, with the same method that was used to measure distance on the ground: trygonometry. > I assume they must have had some forms > of altitude-sensitive fuses since they surely did not rely on direct hits to > bring aircraft down. I can't say it, but I bet that they would have used just a time fuse. They also created a "segment" (I don't know how to explain it in english) of altitudes where the charges would explode, catching the machines flying inside that "segment" > Also, how effective were the early anti-aircraft guns As I've read, some were quite good. > and were they modified > ground artillery weapons? At the beggining of war or as a local modification, but the french already had trucks with AA guns by 1914, for sure. > You will gather that I do not have a clue about > this aspect of the hostilities and I am probably asking a big question which > needs long answers but if anyone can chip in with some knowledge...! If Bob Horton or Lee Mensinger are around I'm sure that we will learn a lot from thse weapons as we did in the case of mortars. Lee, Bob, are you there? D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:37:01 -0500 From: Balzer Mr Gregory P To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: AeroMaster Decals Message-ID: <47637867E285D5118FAE00B0D0D1C9760169D197@TECOM03E> Hello Everyone, As my Dr. 1 "cures" before applying the Future, I have begun construction on my next build, Eduard's Pfalz DIIIa (8044) in Von Holtzem's scheme. I plan on an SOOB build to prevent terminal AMS as occurred with the Dr. 1. I have heard that the decals in the Eduard kit are not the greatest, and that AeroMaster's Pfalz Fighter Collection Pt. 1 has von Holtzem's aircraft on the sheet. As I recall, AeroMaster is Out of Business. Does anyone know where I can obtain a set of von Holtzem's AeroMaster decals? Since I'm new to the hobby I have little more than empty sprue trees to trade, but am willing to offset with cash if anyone is willing to part with their set. TIA Greg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:46:43 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: AeroMaster Decals Message-ID: Greg: > Hello Everyone, > As my Dr. 1 "cures" before applying the Future, A looooooooooooong time I think. I have begun > construction on > my next build, Eduard's Pfalz DIIIa (8044) in Von Holtzem's > scheme. I plan > on an SOOB build to prevent terminal AMS as occurred with the > Dr. 1. You'll never manage it, give in, join the lost souls, think what a few instruments will do to the cockpit;-) /Neil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:48:52 -0500 From: "ot811" To: Subject: RE: Oops! Message-ID: <006e01c1cf65$fe04ab90$0800010a@cyberelan.com> Hi, This is my dilemma. I think my questions are too esoteric to be of general interest to the list. So I take them off-line. ANy general opinion, guideline about what should be the pain threshold on-list topics ? regards SSH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:50:03 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: AeroMaster Decals Message-ID: <049201c1cf66$1db68800$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Greg wrote: > Since I'm new > to the hobby I have little more than empty sprue trees to trade Sell them on Ebay!!!! "Item #3467513165454 Ultra rare! Complete set of plastic sprues for the WW1 expert plastic modeler FROM THE RED BARON HIMSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, his authentic 1/48 Focker Doctor One! UNIQUE FINDING!!!!!!! Use the sprues to relive the magic moments of flight with this real WW2 relic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For the last time available the authentic styrene belonging to the nazi's highly decorated prussian general!!!!! THESE SPRUES WERE FOUND IN THE BARON AIRCRAFT AFTER 90 YRS. OF STORAGE IN A BARN OF NEW JERSEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Buyer pays all expenses and insurances of buyer's house and car, and a 2 week vacation on the Bahamas along with his family. NO RESERVE" RedAxe is waiting for them, Greg! D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:50:53 -0500 From: "Brian Nicklas" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: AeroMaster Decals Message-ID: AeroMaster is now under the Eagle's Strike banner. http://www.eaglestrikeproductions.com/index.html You can search for them and it looks as if the Pfalz sheet are available for online orders. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:49:21 -0500 From: Balzer Mr Gregory P To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: <47637867E285D5118FAE00B0D0D1C9760169D199@TECOM03E> I seem to recall at one point in time seeing an old parallax sighting system that utilized two colored discs that presented overlapping images, which once aligned figured the trigonometry for you, reading out on a scale chart the range to the target. Elevation was determined by a scale on the mount of the weapon. The solution was calculated and called out by a section leader of two guns. Reticle sights gave you a "lead" to the aircraft which you walked on target. This is only from memory, and I believe only dealt with heavy caliber machineguns, not AA guns as you specifically asked. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:57:03 -0600 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: AeroMaster Decals Message-ID: Greg wants: "AeroMaster's Pfalz Fighter Collection Pt. 1 has von Holtzem's aircraft..." I have at least one of the AeroMaster sheets, though whether it's Pt. 1 or Pt. 2 I'll have to check. I can advise tomorrow. HTH Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:58:11 -0500 From: Balzer Mr Gregory P To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: AeroMaster Decals Message-ID: <47637867E285D5118FAE00B0D0D1C9760169D19A@TECOM03E> Diego, Man you have got to take your show on the road!!!! People around work think I'm a bit touched because all I do is sit in front of my screen and chortle to myself. You are one of a kind! Greg -----Original Message----- From: Diego Fernetti [mailto:dfernet0@rosario.gov.ar] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:51 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] RE: AeroMaster Decals Greg wrote: > Since I'm new > to the hobby I have little more than empty sprue trees to trade Sell them on Ebay!!!! "Item #3467513165454 Ultra rare! Complete set of plastic sprues for the WW1 expert plastic modeler FROM THE RED BARON HIMSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, his authentic 1/48 Focker Doctor One! UNIQUE FINDING!!!!!!! Use the sprues to relive the magic moments of flight with this real WW2 relic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For the last time available the authentic styrene belonging to the nazi's highly decorated prussian general!!!!! THESE SPRUES WERE FOUND IN THE BARON AIRCRAFT AFTER 90 YRS. OF STORAGE IN A BARN OF NEW JERSEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Buyer pays all expenses and insurances of buyer's house and car, and a 2 week vacation on the Bahamas along with his family. NO RESERVE" RedAxe is waiting for them, Greg! D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:02:26 -0600 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: AeroMaster Decals Message-ID: Brian provides: "... looks as if the Pfalz sheet are available..." And also confirmed that my sheet is Part 2, so no Holtzem... sorry. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:05:09 -0000 From: Tom Gourdie To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: AeroMaster Decals Message-ID: Greg Hannants still list both Pfalz sets (48185 and 48186)as in stock although they are marked as discontinued which means basically that they won't be getting any more stock. They MIGHT still have them but occasionally they do list things which are no longer in stock. HTH Tom -----Original Message----- From: Balzer Mr Gregory P [mailto:balzergp@tecom.usmc.mil] Sent: 19 March 2002 16:40 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] AeroMaster Decals Hello Everyone, As my Dr. 1 "cures" before applying the Future, I have begun construction on my next build, Eduard's Pfalz DIIIa (8044) in Von Holtzem's scheme. I plan on an SOOB build to prevent terminal AMS as occurred with the Dr. 1. I have heard that the decals in the Eduard kit are not the greatest, and that AeroMaster's Pfalz Fighter Collection Pt. 1 has von Holtzem's aircraft on the sheet. As I recall, AeroMaster is Out of Business. Does anyone know where I can obtain a set of von Holtzem's AeroMaster decals? Since I'm new to the hobby I have little more than empty sprue trees to trade, but am willing to offset with cash if anyone is willing to part with their set. TIA Greg This message is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately. You may not copy it or use this message for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person or take any action based on them. E-Mails are susceptible to interference. UCAS accepts no responsibility for information, errors or omissions in this e-mail nor for its use or misuse nor for any act committed or omitted in connection with this communication. If in doubt, please verify the authenticity of the contents with the sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:08:08 -0500 From: Balzer Mr Gregory P To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: AeroMaster Decals Message-ID: <47637867E285D5118FAE00B0D0D1C9760169D19B@TECOM03E> Thanks Everyone for the info on Eagle Strike. Found the set I was looking for and have them on order. Greg -----Original Message----- From: Lance Krieg [mailto:lance.krieg@amerus.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 12:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] Re: AeroMaster Decals Brian provides: "... looks as if the Pfalz sheet are available..." And also confirmed that my sheet is Part 2, so no Holtzem... sorry. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:15:45 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: Oops! Message-ID: <051401c1cf69$b4decaa0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Sanjeev Just ask freely and you will be answered, for better or for worse. Or by me. ;-) D. ----- Original Message ----- From: ot811 > Hi, > This is my dilemma. I think my questions are too esoteric to be of > general interest to the list. So I take them off-line. ANy general > opinion, guideline about what should be the pain threshold on-list topics ? > regards > SSH > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:20:17 -0600 From: "Lee M." To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: <3C977351.6BA454EB@x25.net> Here and watching. Infantry Soldiers were not privy to AAA information. All I know is that part of the system is a formula containing a formula that is like "What is the value of the Cosine of E sub O". This should be the cosine of the observed elevation from the gun sites. # 1, # 2 or more for precision. It is essential to triangulation. It is probably one of the basic elements of the total formula. End of knowledge. There must be an AAA gunner around some place. The original computer built in Ohio, in the 40s, was essentially designed to calculate artillery tables. It probably did a lot for AA) so all they had to do was get numbers and look them up in the book or use a circular slided rule for answers. Don't really know much. I do know that later in WW II they had a device on the gun control console that moved the guns directly with the input angles observed. It could handle more than one at a time also. (My brother in law was in AAA. I am fortunate. He lives more than a thousand miles away and he is not on the net.) Lee M. New Braunfels, Tx Diego Fernetti wrote: > > Tom! > > In an idle moment the use of anti-aircraft guns between 1914-18 crossed my > > mind - a random thought but I am prone to bizarre random thinking. > > Most of the listees have this quality, included me. Don't worry, it has no > cure. > > > How did these early guns work in the sense of range-finding etc? How did > > the various combatants devise weaponry or rather > instrumentation/calibration > > which could reasonably accurately determine and find an aircraft's > altitude, > > work out the deflection needed etc? > > Artillery was a highly developed science by 1914. The range or altitude of > the aircraft was calculated by optical instruments by one or more observers > in the field, with the same method that was used to measure distance on the > ground: trygonometry. > > > I assume they must have had some forms > > of altitude-sensitive fuses since they surely did not rely on direct hits > to > > bring aircraft down. > > I can't say it, but I bet that they would have used just a time fuse. They > also created a "segment" (I don't know how to explain it in english) of > altitudes where the charges would explode, catching the machines flying > inside that "segment" > > > Also, how effective were the early anti-aircraft guns > > As I've read, some were quite good. > > > and were they modified > > ground artillery weapons? > > At the beggining of war or as a local modification, but the french already > had trucks with AA guns by 1914, for sure. > > > You will gather that I do not have a clue about > > this aspect of the hostilities and I am probably asking a big question > which > > needs long answers but if anyone can chip in with some knowledge...! > > If Bob Horton or Lee Mensinger are around I'm sure that we will learn a lot > from thse weapons as we did in the case of mortars. > Lee, Bob, are you there? > D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:23:46 -0500 (EST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: <20020319172346.08EF1468F1@eclipse.qis.net> On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:38:20 -0500 (EST), Diego Fernetti wrote: >At the beggining of war or as a local modification, but the french already >had trucks with AA guns by 1914, for sure. Just as an FYI, I have a 1/72nd kit of one of these guns. I believe from Exokit, although they may just be the distributors for someone else. I used to have a link for Exokit, but no longer do. Does anyone else have that URL? Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:29:16 -0600 From: "Lee M." To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: <3C97756C.42A4BD7E@x25.net> I have seen the optical range finders used by ground artillery and small weapons. The base lines, two or three feet at best, between the lenses is not long enough for real accuracy on an AAA weapon. Taking a reading with a 1000 foot base line, or longer, with two known site locations, relative to the gun locations, does far better. Azimuth and Elevation can get within a few feet at 20,000. ( dependant on the lead applied. It works for Mortars and stuff with ground targets like trucks and tanks. I know that from Trig... Give a few degrees lead and it works. Lee M Balzer Mr Gregory P wrote: > > I seem to recall at one point in time seeing an old parallax sighting system > that utilized two colored discs that presented overlapping images, which > once aligned figured the trigonometry for you, reading out on a scale chart > the range to the target. Elevation was determined by a scale on the mount > of the weapon. The solution was calculated and called out by a section > leader of two guns. Reticle sights gave you a "lead" to the aircraft which > you walked on target. This is only from memory, and I believe only dealt > with heavy caliber machineguns, not AA guns as you specifically asked. > Greg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:33:44 -0600 From: "Lee M." To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: <3C977678.95B4EE3F@x25.net> How about this. http://www.tracks-n-troops.com/Exokit.htm If it sounds right it might be what you want. I looked it up on google.com. took about 10 seconds. Lee M. tbittners@sprintmail.com wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:38:20 -0500 (EST), Diego Fernetti wrote: > > >At the beggining of war or as a local modification, but the french already > >had trucks with AA guns by 1914, for sure. > > Just as an FYI, I have a 1/72nd kit of one of these guns. I believe from Exokit, although they may just be the distributors for someone else. > > I used to have a link for Exokit, but no longer do. Does anyone else have that URL? > > Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:43:48 -0500 (EST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: <20020319174348.EAF49468F0@eclipse.qis.net> On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:32:25 -0500 (EST), "Lee M." wrote: >How about this. > >http://www.tracks-n-troops.com/Exokit.htm > >If it sounds right it might be what you want. >I looked it up on google.com. took about 10 seconds. Thanks, that does work. However, they do have their own site. Guess I'll have to google too. ;-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:51:37 -0500 (EST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: <20020319175137.6D91E468F1@eclipse.qis.net> One thing I just realised. While Exokit does sell them, the French AAA truck I have is actually from Retromodels from France. Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:06:34 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: RE: A/G decals Message-ID: <006301c1cf70$cfa0e740$0200a8c0@x.pl> Thanks Mack and others! I've already've got what I wanted. G. > Grzegorz, if Tom's scans didn't answer your questions, I might have this set > at home. Will check tonite and let you know. > Mack _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:12:30 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WWI Modelling List" Subject: Re: Trench Message-ID: <004e01c1cf71$a50e0ca0$06e8b094@sandyada> >Sandy, what was the name of the program? I'm sorry, Mack, I would have put it in if I remembered it. I've just had a look at web pages for UK channels but can't find it - will post it if I find. Keep an eye out for a modern archaeology prog mentioning Ieper and trenches though. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:20:47 -0800 From: "David C. Fletcher" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: <009501c1cf7b$2cb0dd00$af884318@cc.shawcable.net> I knew I had an answer somewhere, albeit not a complete one. Proximity shells did not appear until 1938, so WWI AA was by timed fuses. Initially, a gunpowder fuse was used, but timing to explode at a precise distance was problematical, as the burn time varied with temperature and air density, rendering shots against aircraft unlikely to get things just right. Attempts to use rotating vanes to measure distance failed because the speed of the shell dropped off with distance and range became less accurate with distance; the vanes also tended to jam. The first workable solution was the clockwork fuze introduced by Krupp in 1917. Since the clock ran at a fairly precise rate, distance from the muzzle to the target could be worked out fairly closely and a more accurate setting established. Another method developed used two centrifugal weights which spun with the rifling of the shell to establish distance. The British adopted the clockwork system and the Americans preferred the centrifugal system. The Germans used both. Whether or not high-expolosive or shrapnel charges were used agianst aircraft, I haven't been able to determine yet. So endeth the lesson... Dave Fletcher ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:25:19 +1100 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Part and SPAD Message-ID: <001b01c1cf84$3031fe60$76492dcb@nsw.bigpond.net.au> I cant beleive that this is the same AModel kit. Truly amazing. No wonder you said to hang off building my A2 Matt. Cheers Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Bittner" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:49 PM Subject: [WWI] Part and SPAD > Has everyone had a chance to go to the Part site yet? If not, > you need to click on the "72nd photoetch" section on the left of > the screen, scroll all the way down, and click on the little > camera next to the SPAD SA.2 set. Witold has shown you what the > kit looks like with most of the p/e attached to the Amodel SPAD > SA.2/4. Stunning! > > > Matt Bittner > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:22:24 +0100 From: Paul Thompson To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: 1/48th Strutters Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319211952.00a04ec0@pop.xs4all.nl> For those of us who dabble/paddle in PC10, look at the Roden in processing section on their redesigned site. They list 3 1 1/2 Strutters in 1/48th. Only reached the black and white box art stage so far. Fingers crossed, eh?.............. Apologies if this has already been mentioned (digest mode time warp). Paul T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:27:38 EST From: CoolSpadLuke@aol.com To: Subject: Re: Anti-aircraft weaponry Message-ID: <16d.a8c3ecc.29c8f93c@aol.com> Tom, I can't speak to WWI anti-aircraft artillery specifically. An early form of AAA fuzing was the powder train time fuze. It was usually a threaded, conical brass-bodied device having two or three conic sections. It was screwed into the nose of the projectile. Circular channels were cut inside at least two of the adjacent conic sections and were filled with compressed black powder. The exterior of the fuze was inscribed with measuring scales on the mating edges of the conical sections. A spanner-type wrench was used to rotate the center section to align with certain measuring marks on the lower section. This caused the black powder lead-in from the center section to intersect the black powder channel of the lower section at various points, thereby changing the length of time until the burn at the end of the black powder channel ignited the initiator, which, through the booster, detonated the round. As the ballistics people knew the speed of the round, time was the variable used to reach the differing altitudes. Of course, black powder burning rates were probably affected by the moisture encountered in transport/storage as the fuzes were rather loosely constructed. After all, the gases from the burning black powder had to vent somewhere. In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if the gunners used a few ranging rounds to determine where a given fuze setting was working on any particular day. HTH, Mike Kavanaugh In a message dated Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:28:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, Tom Gourdie writes: > In an idle moment the use of anti-aircraft guns between 1914-18 crossed my > mind - a random thought but I am prone to bizarre random thinking. > > How did these early guns work in the sense of range-finding etc? How did > the various combatants devise weaponry or rather instrumentation/calibration > which could reasonably accurately determine and find an aircraft's altitude, > work out the deflection needed etc? I assume they must have had some forms > of altitude-sensitive fuses since they surely did not rely on direct hits to > bring aircraft down. > > Also, how effective were the early anti-aircraft guns and were they modified > ground artillery weapons? You will gather that I do not have a clue about > this aspect of the hostilities and I am probably asking a big question which > needs long answers but if anyone can chip in with some knowledge...! > > TIA > > Tom > Tom Gourdie > Regional Group Coordinator > Outreach Department > The Universities and Colleges Admissions Service > (UCAS) > > Tel: 01242 544878 > Fax: 01242 544954 > E-mail: t.gourdie@ucas.ac.uk > Website: http://www.ucas.com > > Registered Office: Rosehill, New Barn Lane, Cheltenham, Glos GL52 3LZ > Registered Company Number: 2839815 > Registered Charity Number: 1024741 > > > > > This message is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please > notify us immediately. You may not copy it or use this message for any > purpose or disclose its contents to any other person or take any action > based on them. > > E-Mails are susceptible to interference. UCAS accepts no responsibility for > information, errors or omissions in this e-mail nor for its use or misuse > nor for any act committed or omitted in connection with this communication. > If in doubt, please verify the authenticity of the contents with the sender. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4269 **********************