WWI Digest 4101 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: French "beige" by "Matt Bittner" 2) Re: quick Hanriot 5 color camo question by "Michael and Sharon Alvarado, NSWCC" 3) Blue Rider D.VII decals by "Matt Bittner" 4) RE: French "beige" by Mark Miller 5) RE: French "beige" by "Tomasz Gronczewski" 6) Re: Nigels mortars: by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 7) Re: WW1 Model Gallery by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 8) Re: Nigels mortars: by "Bob Pearson" 9) Re: Help Please? re German AGO/Otto pushers by a.r.martin@t-online.de (Rita) 10) Re: quick Hanriot 5 color camo question by a.r.martin@t-online.de (Rita) 11) More updates by "Matt Bittner" 12) Re: Nigels mortars: by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 13) Re: Nigels mortars: by "Lee M." 14) Re: control surface positioning by "Lee M." 15) Re: Nigels mortars: by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 16) Alberto by Peter Fedders 17) RE: Alberto by Shane Weier 18) New 1/72 Fokker DVII Kit by "Courtney Allen" 19) Re: Blue Rider D.VII decals by CoolSpadLuke@aol.com 20) Re: Blue Rider D.VII decals by "Matt Bittner" 21) Group Order to Hobbyshop.cz? by Todd Hayes 22) Re: control surface positioning by "Michael and Sharon Alvarado, NSWCC" 23) Unconnected ailerons - was: control surface positioning by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= 24) Re: Unconnected ailerons - was: control surface positioning by "Steven Perry" 25) Re: Hobbyshop.cz Shipping Costs by Lubos.Vinar@deltax.cz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:46:51 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: RE: French "beige" Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:10:13 -0500 (EST), Tomasz Gronczewski wrote: > For me it looks nice ;o) Just like on my finished Hanriot (Humbrol > 187) Any body have Humbrol and Polly Scale to compare? What about Humbrol and MisterKit? Just to check Alberto's references... ;-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:44:54 -0500 From: "Michael and Sharon Alvarado, NSWCC" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: quick Hanriot 5 color camo question Message-ID: <3C4F3CE5.E407C5F5@verizon.net> Myles, If i remember correctly, there is no black on the fuselage of a Hanriot in 5 color camo. The fuselage colors shoud be Chestnut (dark brown), dark green, light green and beige, under suface either "ecru" or aluminized dope. In the french 5 color system each airframe component upper wing, port lower wing, starboard lower wing, fuselage, stabilizer/elevators, fin used four of the five colors. Each component used a different combination of the five colors four at a time (stabilizer/elevators only three colors. This does not include the under surface colors which were either "ecru" or aluminum dope. HTH Alvie Myles Miller wrote: > Hello - > > I have a quick question for anyone who has built a Hanriot HD.1 and applied > French 5 color camo - I have masked and applied the beige, light and dark > green, and a portion of the chestnut, but have noticed some discrepancies > among various sources for the black and chestnut patterns. > > Here is the question: does the black and chestnut pattern on the forward > fuselage and cowling as depicted in the Eduard painting diagram match the > datafile profile? > > The Eduard instructions show a black pattern across part of the cowling. > However, I notice at least one model in the WWI site gallery has a chestnut > color in this location. Unfortunately, the Hanriot datafile was one item > on my Xmas list that Santa forgot...... > > Thanks in advance, > Myles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:54:50 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Blue Rider D.VII decals Message-ID: I've been sitting on this for far too long. I want to offer those decals on the 1/72nd "Foreign D.VII" Blue Rider decal sheet to those on the list. This is all of them except the ones I want, and others that have been already called for. The decals already spoken for are: most of the Soviet, the captured one that was used by the 9th Aero, and the Finnish ones. (If you want the Finnish ones, you can take it up with Brent ;-)). The rest are up for grabs. What I would like to turn this into is a "mini-cookup", specifically for the Roll site (since Roll Models provided the decals). It's not mandatory that you submit images to Roll if you decide to acquire some of these decals, but I think it would be a great "thank you" for providing the decals. Email me direct with your wants. If you don't know what schemes come with the decal sheet, you're out of luck. There are 35 schemes on this decal sheet. ;-) Seriously, though, if you're interested and would like to know your options, just ask. Keep in mind that most of these are the "late Fokker" version, so plan accordingly. Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 2002 14:58:08 -0800 From: Mark Miller To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: French "beige" Message-ID: <20020123225808.27704.cpmta@c016.snv.cp.net> On Wed, 23 January 2002, "Tomasz Gronczewski" wrote: > > > just in case someone with some software > > can give us a best equivalent. It's: 10YR-2.SY, 5 - 5.5, 4 > > Well, the truth is hidden in a following region: > > 10.00YR, 5, 4 = R:159, G:131, B:094 = C-20, M:31, Y:45, K:17 > 2.50Y, 5, 4 = R:155, G:133, B:091 = C:20, M:28, Y:45, K:19 > 10.00YR, 5.5, 4 = R:172, G:143, B:106 = C:20, M:31, Y:45, K:12 > 2.50Y, 5.5, 4 = R:167, G:145, B:102 = C:20, M:28, Y:45, K:14 > > For me it looks nice ;o) Just like on my finished Hanriot (Humbrol > 187) > > Tomasz Tomasz whoops I put in the wrong numbers. looks like you got it right ;-) Glad to hear the you got back colors which were somehow consistant with the paint on your model. The only indicator I have so far that the converter is giving back good values is that the colors I get from the german Museum munsell numbers are similar to the colors I see on the Halberstadt photos posted on Allen's site. The values are different - the Munsell colors are quite a bit lighter, but that could be variable according to lighting - important thing is that the basic hues were the same. BTW I have finished all the color samples for the 5 color lozenge data - been screwing around trying to write something legible to go with it. I'll try and wrap it up and post it in the next couple of days. and BTW - I double checked my numbers :-) Maybe we should generate some swatches for the French colors as well Mark Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:19:20 +0100 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: RE: French "beige" Message-ID: > BTW I have finished all the color samples for the 5 color > lozenge data - been screwing around trying to write > something legible to go with it. > I'll try and wrap it up and post it in the next couple of days. Yes, yes, Mark, I am keeping my fingers crossed! ;o) > Maybe we should generate some swatches for the French colors as well It would be excellent, but I haven't even got their Munsell numbers :o( Tomasz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:41:33 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nigels mortars: Message-ID: Greg says (snip) >In my experience, you >might see a flash as the round exited the tube, but distance and speed made >it impossible to follow it in flight. Greg; I don't doubt for one minute your experience, however, the 25cm Minenwerfer was a different kettle of fish entirely. This was a big shell with a relatively low muzzle velocity. Many memoirs at the time mention seeing these babies coming over (this probably saved a few lives too, as well as ruining a few uniforms). This was a heavy mortar - a full crew for the 1912 model was 21 men. What you say may apply for other WWI mortars, Stokes, the French 58T, but not for a minnie. One thought though, in the memoirs, "minnie" seems to be a generic term for all large German mortars, some of the recollections may have been referring to the large smooth bore mortars also. HTH All the Best Neil E (Thinks this is somewhat ot and maybe should be taken off list - what do people think?) _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:59:52 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: WW1 Model Gallery Message-ID: Peter; After seeing The Blue Max as a young teenager, I thought that this was what lozenge really looked like! However, a copy of the old Agostino "Colour Profiles" on my 17th birthday set me right (Sort of). Thinking about the "Blue Max Lozenge, I guess you would have to hand paint it too. Good models, I like the Albatri also. All the Best Neil E. (if you're out there Steve...call in) << http://www.us-aircraft.com/steve_lawson_gallery.htm >> Thanks for that Neil. He has some really good stuff on there, that DVII is a cracker. Plus he had the guts to do a Blue Max DrI complete with Pobjoy and lozenge. I think I like this guy. cheers Peter L _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:07:40 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nigels mortars: Message-ID: <101183096901@smtp.vphos.net> > Neil E > (Thinks this is somewhat ot and maybe should be taken off list - what do > people think?) Its OT .. especially if someone builds a model of one Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:40:40 +0100 From: a.r.martin@t-online.de (Rita) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Help Please? re German AGO/Otto pushers Message-ID: <16TXwW-0r973YC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> Hi guys, I've own the book " Die Königlich Bayerischen Fliegertruppen" (Royal Bavarian Flying Corps) with some pics of Otto pushers. By interest please contact me off-list and I will send you a scan of the pics. Andreas iban schrieb: > Can anyone point me to the best print reference works and/or websites > regarding the AGO and Otto German Pushers? > > Is there a definitive book on the subject? > > I'm embarassed to flaunt my ignorance, but I didn't even know the Central > Powers *made* pusher designs until I saw these pics on Rosebud's site: > > [url]http://204.83.160.230/archive/b/images/otto.jpg[/url] > [url]http://204.83.160.230/archive/a/images/AGO_pusher.jpg[/url] > [url]http://204.83.160.230/archive/w/images/CourderoyRunway.jpg[/url] > [url]http://204.83.160.230/archive/w/images/otto_pusher.jpg[/url] > > As you can see, I'm NOT speaking of the AGO CI and CII types, the ones with > the twin boom P-38 type tail structure. I was at least familiar with these > types. > > Rather, these are more like the German answer to the Airco DH1 and DH2. > > However, other than these pictures, I can find nothing about these planes, > either on the web or in book subject searches (not that I'm brilliant at > either, mind you). > > Surely there is a comprehensive work on these types somewhere? At very > least something like a book on German Pushers that would cover them with a > few pages each? Can anyone advise me on this? > > What I have been able to discover, to my surprise, is that AGO Flugzeugwerke > (Aerowerke Gustav Otto, or alternatively, Aktien Gesellschaft Otto, based in > Johannisthal, on the outskirts of Berlin) was a branch of Otto (Otto Werke, > Munich) apparently financed by AEG. In 1916 they were merged with another > big German engineering firm and the conglomeration was rechristened > Bavarisch Motor Werke, better known these days as BMW, at which time they > started building (among other things) motorbikes and cars, which they still > do quite well today by all accounts. > > It's nice to drive around town and see concrete tangible links to obscure OT > aircraft doing rather well for themselves almost a century later! :-) > > Thank you in advance for any help. > > Cheers, > > Iban. > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:55:08 +0100 From: a.r.martin@t-online.de (Rita) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: quick Hanriot 5 color camo question Message-ID: <16TYAW-1FjtFQC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> The Windsock Datafile (No. 12) shows the usual 5 color camo for the Hanriot. Black is here also used for the fuselage, round the cockpit. Andreas Michael and Sharon Alvarado, NSWCC schrieb: > Myles, > > If i remember correctly, there is no black on the fuselage of a Hanriot in 5 > color camo. The fuselage colors shoud be Chestnut (dark brown), dark green, > light green and beige, under suface either "ecru" or aluminized dope. In the > french 5 color system each airframe component upper wing, port lower wing, > starboard lower wing, fuselage, stabilizer/elevators, fin used four of the > five > colors. Each component used a different combination of the five colors four > at > a time (stabilizer/elevators only three colors. This does not include the > under surface colors which were either "ecru" or aluminum dope. > > HTH > > Alvie > > Myles Miller wrote: > > > Hello - > > > > I have a quick question for anyone who has built a Hanriot HD.1 and applied > > French 5 color camo - I have masked and applied the beige, light and dark > > green, and a portion of the chestnut, but have noticed some discrepancies > > among various sources for the black and chestnut patterns. > > > > Here is the question: does the black and chestnut pattern on the forward > > fuselage and cowling as depicted in the Eduard painting diagram match the > > datafile profile? > > > > The Eduard instructions show a black pattern across part of the cowling. > > However, I notice at least one model in the WWI site gallery has a chestnut > > color in this location. Unfortunately, the Hanriot datafile was one item > > on my Xmas list that Santa forgot...... > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Myles > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:05:57 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: More updates Message-ID: Okay, people. Stop being so prolific! I would like to model one of these days... ;-) Seriously, though. Hans Trauner sent in images of three new models, one of them a figure, and all superbly done. Personally, I really like the Pfalz. Ken Acosta sent in images of his finished, first WW1 model. Awesome! And a Nieuport to boot! Smart man. ;-) Good thing I don't compete in 1/48th...you guys are too good for me. Matt Bittner WW1 Modeling Page Assistant Editor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:10:43 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nigels mortars: Message-ID: says... >Its OT .. especially if someone builds a model of one Yes, a minenwerfer team in action would make a good subject...where do you get plans though?, Does anyone know any museums that keep a 25cm minenwerfer? Also there was a fair few variations in design I notice from photographs of captured minnies. Anyone want to scratch build a "minnie"? (See Neil desperately trying to dodge doing this himself) :-0 All the Best Neil E _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:39:02 -0600 From: "Lee M." To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nigels mortars: Message-ID: <3C4F65B6.BA2448AC@x25.net> >From what I have heard nothing was mini about that thing. It was a very large device both the gun and the shell device. Minenwerfwer means Mine thrower It may have imbedded itself in the gound a ways and then expl;oded. I am still waiting for much info about the thing. I can't find it in the books I have available. But I will continue looking. Now realizing the size of the projectile and after seeing "screaming Mimis" and the huge railroad shells flying thru the air I do not doubt they were visible. I just know the mortar shells in WW II were not. Lee M. New Braunfels, Tx Lee M. Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au wrote: > > Greg says (snip) > >In my experience, you > >might see a flash as the round exited the tube, but distance and speed > made > >it impossible to follow it in flight. > > Greg; > > I don't doubt for one minute your experience, however, the 25cm Minenwerfer > was a different kettle of fish entirely. This was a big shell with a > relatively low muzzle velocity. Many memoirs at the time mention seeing > these babies coming over (this probably saved a few lives too, as well as > ruining a few uniforms). This was a heavy mortar - a full crew for the 1912 > model was 21 men. What you say may apply for other WWI mortars, Stokes, the > French 58T, but not for a minnie. One thought though, in the memoirs, > "minnie" seems to be a generic term for all large German mortars, some of > the recollections may have been referring to the large smooth bore mortars > also. > > HTH > > All the Best > > Neil E > (Thinks this is somewhat ot and maybe should be taken off list - what do > people think?) > > _________________________________________________________________________________ > NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. > > Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. > > Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. > > If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au > _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:44:15 -0600 From: "Lee M." To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: control surface positioning Message-ID: <3C4F66EF.8CDB57D8@x25.net> All aircraft are gliders, but, most are not sailplanes. Some just glide a lot better than others. If you think that is wrong just wait till your engine quits. Been there. Done that. With great success I might add. Landed in a field of two foot tall alfalfa. Lee M. "Michael and Sharon Alvarado, NSWCC" wrote: > > Diego, > > My flying career started in sailplanes, Scweitzer 2-22, 2-32, 1-26 and Libelle > 301. > > Alvie > > Diego Fernetti wrote: > > > Alvie wrote: > > >This is true. The rudder on my C152 was next to useless. The plane could > > >very > > > > well be flown with the feet planted firmly on the floor. > > > > These cessna pilots are all a bunch of slackers. Get a glider and try the > > same stunt. You'll loose a few meters on each turn. > > psst! > > D. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:58:12 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nigels mortars: Message-ID: Lee; In the rambling epistle I just sent off list (sorry!), I said I'd have a look for stats etc on minnies - I'll also look for passages from memoirs etc and scan these over the next few days and send them if you want. They give some idea as to what it did and the types of shells used etc. Hope this will help All the Best Neil E _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:24:59 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Fedders To: models models Subject: Alberto Message-ID: Does anybody have the e-mail adress of Alberto (Casirati)?? thanks peter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:29:55 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Alberto Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDAB5@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Peter, > Does anybody have the e-mail adress of Alberto (Casirati)?? > thanks >From his post of 7 hours ago...... a.casirati@cornali-trasporti.it HTH Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:53:02 -0800 From: "Courtney Allen" To: Subject: New 1/72 Fokker DVII Kit Message-ID: <008001c1a482$3e72cfe0$d143510c@worldnet.att.net> Just looked at the Squadron Page and see they have a 1/72 Fokker DVII by MAC in stock. Anyone have any info. on it other than it's the wrong scale? http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=kpm72040 Courtney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:06:34 EST From: CoolSpadLuke@aol.com To: Subject: Re: Blue Rider D.VII decals Message-ID: <92.20500a89.2980d43b@aol.com> Matt, I don't suppose you have any in 1/48, do you? Mike Kavanaugh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:13:00 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: Blue Rider D.VII decals Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:08:43 -0500 (EST), CoolSpadLuke@aol.com wrote: > I don't suppose you have any in 1/48, do you? Nope. Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:28:53 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Group Order to Hobbyshop.cz? Message-ID: <20020124032853.13024.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Everyone, Is anyone interested in doing a group order to Lubos? I figure it would cost 15% of each individual order value for shipping from Lubos to me. From me to you, $3.50 for the first kit + .50 for additional 1/48 kits, .25 for 1/72, 1/144. All would be sent by priority mail. His shipping costs have gone up, BUT his kit prices have gone down. Let me know off-list. Todd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeing new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:00:46 -0500 From: "Michael and Sharon Alvarado, NSWCC" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: control surface positioning Message-ID: <3C4F86EE.119AB40A@verizon.net> I wouldn't exactly call a Schweitzer 2-22 or 2-33 a glider. The 2-22 I used to fly in Hearne, Tx was known as the "Greased Safe" in fell out thebsky so fast once you were off tow. The 2-33 was know as the lead sled it had a some what better L/D. Alvie "Lee M." wrote: > All aircraft are gliders, but, most are not sailplanes. Some just glide > a lot better than others. > > If you think that is wrong just wait till your engine quits. > > Been there. Done that. With great success I might add. Landed in a > field of two foot tall alfalfa. > > Lee M. > > "Michael and Sharon Alvarado, NSWCC" wrote: > > > > Diego, > > > > My flying career started in sailplanes, Scweitzer 2-22, 2-32, 1-26 and Libelle > > 301. > > > > Alvie > > > > Diego Fernetti wrote: > > > > > Alvie wrote: > > > >This is true. The rudder on my C152 was next to useless. The plane could > > > >very > > > > > well be flown with the feet planted firmly on the floor. > > > > > > These cessna pilots are all a bunch of slackers. Get a glider and try the > > > same stunt. You'll loose a few meters on each turn. > > > psst! > > > D. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > > http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:56:06 +0800 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Unconnected ailerons - was: control surface positioning Message-ID: <005d01c1a493$722d3e40$236e160a@CSP00> As I'm still recovering from the mail blackout of the last few days (curtesy of my ISP), I might ask something that was already discussed in this thread: I noticed that a number of aircraft, especially some early Farmans or some of their German counterparts (like the Euler and Otto pushers) show a common phenomenon: Usually, the ailerons of aircrft are "logically connected" when on the ground - either they're flat, or one is up and the other one down. Now for the aircraft in question, ground photos show *both* ailerons hanging straight down, and a 90 deg angle - obviously dropping there by their own weight. I always interpreted that as a consequence of the ailerons not being connected, and being activated through a somewhat different method/mechanism. Any idea how this worked in reality? Or maybe: were these ailerons only disconnected on the ground, and were they reconnected for the flight? Volker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:13:23 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Unconnected ailerons - was: control surface positioning Message-ID: <003901c1a4c8$2384ba40$0fe82341@tampabay.rr.com> > Now for the aircraft in question, ground photos show *both* ailerons hanging > straight down, and a 90 deg angle - obviously dropping there by their own > weight. I always interpreted that as a consequence of the ailerons not being > connected, and being activated through a somewhat different > method/mechanism. Any idea how this worked in reality? Or maybe: were these > ailerons only disconnected on the ground, and were they reconnected for the > flight? The slip stream held them up in flight. Right stick pulled the right aileron up decreasing lift on the right wing which would drop and the plane bank right. They acted more like spoilers than ailerons. Least thats my understanding sp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:19:52 +0100 From: Lubos.Vinar@deltax.cz To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Hobbyshop.cz Shipping Costs Message-ID: Hi all, Shipping cost is based on weight. only. Value of order doesn't make any difference. It's a real shipping based on the Czech post office charges. If you are interested, I can add surface mail. Price for surface mail is about half of airmail shipping. But delivery time is over 1 month. Best regards Lubos >> Odpovězte prosím - wwi@wwi-models.org Odesláno kým: wwi@wwi-models.org Od: Todd Hayes @wwi-models.org 23.01.2002 23:22:51 Komu: Multiple recipients of list Kopie: Předmět: [WWI] Hobbyshop.cz Shipping Costs Hi All, Does anyone here have a reasonably clear idea of the new shipping costs from Hobbyshop.cz? The amount is based on weight and value of the order, but that explanation is still too vague. Just what % is charged? Any answers? Todd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4101 **********************