WWI Digest 4099 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: e-bay D.VII by PetersList@aol.com 2) by goldmis6@sohu.com 3) Re: e-bay D.VII by David Fleming 4) Re: Nigels mortars: by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 5) Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? by Crawford Neil 6) Re: Nigels mortars: by "Bob Pearson" 7) Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? by "Bob Pearson" 8) SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by Tom Gourdie 9) Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? by "Matt Bittner" 10) Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? by Crawford Neil 11) RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by Crawford Neil 12) Re: OT Kit Wierdness Alert: I Just Noticed That.... by Scottfking@aol.com 13) RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by "Tomasz Gronczewski" 14) Re: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by "Steven Perry" 15) Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? by "Bob Pearson" 16) Mortar shells by "ZELNICK, KENNETH T" 17) RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 18) Re: Baracca's horse by "Michael Kendix" 19) Re: Mortar shells by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 20) RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 21) Re: control surface positioning by "Diego Fernetti" 22) RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by "Tomasz Gronczewski" 23) RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by "Tomasz Gronczewski" 24) Re: New Madman sighted.... by "Diego Fernetti" 25) RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by "Diego Fernetti" 26) Re: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by KnnthS@aol.com 27) goodies in the mail by "Diego Fernetti" 28) RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 29) Re: SPAD middle struts by "Diego Fernetti" 30) Marine Corps Museum by Balzer Mr Gregory P 31) WW1 Model Gallery by "Neil Eddy" 32) Re: Red Baron Book by Dave Townsend 33) Re: Nigels mortars: by Balzer Mr Gregory P ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 04:58:24 EST From: PetersList@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: e-bay D.VII Message-ID: <4f.176035c3.297fe340@aol.com> In a message dated 22/01/02 23:33:27 GMT Standard Time, sdw@qld.mim.com.au writes: << Damn. I wonder if he wants another one? I still have a few... >> Is there a list curse? The high bidder has been unfrocked so the price has dropped back to a more reasonable $60, which is about what I hoped for so I can't complain. cheers Peter L ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 02:05:25 -0800 (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) From: goldmis6@sohu.com Message-ID: <3C47A3500011C8F4@mail.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) =?GB2312?B?b2xkbWlzo6k=?= To: wwi@wwi-models.org Content-Type: text/plain; Sender: goldmis6@sohu.com Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:05:10 +0800 X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Caretop Library X-Mailer: Caretop 2604 您好！ 试一试，自己就可以构建信息管理系统. 购置计算机后您想做什么哪？上网、游戏、还有．．．．．． 还有： 想把自己的业务用计算机管理起来却自己不会编程开发软件 立项委托别人开发又受制于人 专业通用软件可维护性、适应性差，不适合自己无可奈何 软件的数据分析功能无法满足自己对数据的分析要求 想把许多管理项目集中到一个平台上 ．．．．．．有什么软件可以解决这些问题？ 智能傻瓜型管理平台（mis）------《金成通用管理平台》是您的选择。 《金成通用管理平台》是国内最优秀的智能傻瓜型管理平台（mis）软件，产品主要特点：无需编程,，只需定义参数快速构建信息管理系统；只需调整参数快速维护信息管理系统；且具有强大的数据分析报表应用功能。 软件适合各行各业各种信息管理系统的建立。 现公司把此软件加密方式，有以前的加密锁改为注册方式，且大幅降低注册费（仅300元）。欢迎您使用国内最好的MIS软件。 当今社会，日新月异，《金成通用管理平台》以快速应用，快速维护，功能强大为研发理念，定能使您的计算机应用水平上一台阶。 欢迎合作应用、开发或oem等。 北京君禾金成科技发展有限公司 电话：62180002；62178388 下载：http://www.junhesoft.com/soft/goldmis-login.zip http://www.junhesoft.com/html/xiazai.htm 网址：http://www.junhesoft.com E-MAIL：sales@junhesoft.com 很抱歉在未征得您同意的情况下发来这封邮件,但愿给您带来的是您希望获得的好消息！ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:40:01 +0000 From: David Fleming To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: e-bay D.VII Message-ID: <3C4E9301.12C49218@dial.pipex.com> KnnthS@aol.com wrote: > Shane speculates: > > << Damn. I wonder if he wants another one? I still have a few.... >> > > I have 3-that's $270 ! > I could buy my own plane! > Go now - market will crash if the Revell de one is the dragon (as seems increasingly likely) D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:19:32 +0000 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nigels mortars: Message-ID: > There >is one fellow on SMML who has been sending along his experiences on HMS Howe >and one of the welded frigates .. very long missives. . and very >entertaining. Forgive my ignorance: SMML? N -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:25:28 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? Message-ID: They were in Windsock in 1988, all 5 of the 5, not sure about the Nieuport colours. Unfortunately they were influenced/supplied by Rodney Gerrard, who it turns out was helping science along by some creative mixing of his own. When I mix paints I follow these paintchips, except for the beige which I don't like. /Neil C. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rory Goodwin [mailto:rorygood@earthlink.net] > Sent: den 23 januari 2002 06:45 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? > > > Has someone already done paint chips of not only 4 of the 5 > colors but the early > Nieuport browns and greens? > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:29:43 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nigels mortars: Message-ID: <101178549401@smtp.vphos.net> Mailing list devoted to those floaty things run by Shane the Younger - Ship Model Mailing List or some such .. I know Shane'll say I got it wrong. IN any case head on over to http://www.smmlonline.com Bob (denizen of aforementioned list) ---------- >From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard >> There >>is one fellow on SMML who has been sending along his experiences on HMS Howe >>and one of the welded frigates .. very long missives. . and very >>entertaining. > > Forgive my ignorance: SMML? > N ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:39:09 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? Message-ID: <101178606101@smtp.vphos.net> Alan Toelle is hard at work on new references. . When I talked to him in Phoenix in 98 he was very interested in getting me to do artwork done on computer for a book on . .. the bugger then went and learnt how to do it himself and is busy doing all sorts of stuff now (or so I hear from those close to him). Which brings me to Osprey .. just on principle I boycott their WWI titles since they never deigned to answer my messages to them prior to whomever they did hire (and I really do not like the colours in their SPAD book - they look like cartoons. - but then again I also don't like some of my colours in print either) Bob who can be petty and hold a grudge if need be and yes, I am up too late working on IM. . can't you tell? nl: Lucinda Williams (yes, still. .. Its only been five months and I do have six of her CDs) nb: You know... nr: some artilces for IM ---------- >From: Crawford Neil > They were in Windsock in 1988, all 5 of the 5, not sure > about the Nieuport colours. Unfortunately they were > influenced/supplied by Rodney Gerrard, who it turns out > was helping science along by some creative mixing of his > own. When I mix paints I follow these paintchips, > except for the beige which I don't like. > /Neil C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:47:49 -0000 From: Tom Gourdie To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: In early SPAD XIIIs where the machine is in clear-doped fabric what did the manufacturer/sub-contractors use to paint the metal sections of the airframe to approximate to the unpainted fabric? What sort of advice can listees give on paint-mixing to achieve whatever the colour/shade might have been? Thanks. Tom Tom Gourdie Regional Group Coordinator Outreach Department Universities and Colleges Admissions Service (UCAS) Registered Office Address : Rosehill New Barn Lane Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL52 3LZ UK E-mail : t.gourdie@ucas.ac.uk Direct telephone number: +44 (0) 1242 544 878 Direct fax number: +44 (0) 1242 544 963 Registered Company No: 2839815 Registered Charity No: 1024741 Website: www.ucas.com This message is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately. You may not copy it or use this message for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person or take any action based on them. E-Mails are susceptible to interference. UCAS accepts no responsibility for information, errors or omissions in this e-mail nor for its use or misuse nor for any act committed or omitted in connection with this communication. If in doubt, please verify the authenticity of the contents with the sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 05:51:53 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:45:01 -0500 (EST), Rory Goodwin wrote: > Has someone already done paint chips of not only 4 of the 5 colors but the early > Nieuport browns and greens? No, because AFAIK no fabric exists with these colors on them. Keep in mind that Toelle, et. al. had real fabric samples to go from (and, as far as I can tell, not from the Gerrard collection). It's really a fascinating read, learning how they came up with their hypothesis. I just hope someday, for those who don't have it, it will be re-released. Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:50:36 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? Message-ID: Oh, so your'e still doing yesterday! /Neil C. (Just going to get some coffee after lunch, tomorrow) > Bob > who can be petty and hold a grudge if need be and yes, I am > up too late > working on IM. . can't you tell? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:57:39 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: I think it's the same colours as the fabric, but without the aluminium powder, correct me if I'm wrong RK, Matt etc. So all you need to do is make a small change of tone to the nose-panels. I think I used pastels to emphasise the nose on my 16. But after looking at a lot of nose panels recently I don't think that was enough, I think they are also shinier than the rest of the fuselage. /Neil C. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:10:44 EST From: Scottfking@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: OT Kit Wierdness Alert: I Just Noticed That.... Message-ID: <154.7b607d1.29800244@aol.com> In a message dated 1/22/02 11:58:15 PM EST, thayes_52601@yahoo.com writes: << Eduard Nieuport 11 Profi has TWO different kit manufacturer numbers on the same box. One end has 8070 (correct), the other has 8705. Does yours? >> Yep, well one of my 2 kits does. Actually, one has both numbers as you described, the other has 8070 on one end, the other end has a small white label covering up the offending 8705. The world wonders... Scott (Skippy) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:16:59 +0100 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: > In early SPAD XIIIs where the machine is in clear-doped fabric Tom, before our French specialists answer, I would say that I am not sure. I suppose, early Spad XIIIs were finished in Jaune Claire overall, weren't they? If so, the metal panes should be finished with pure color, while fabric surfaces with "aluminized" dope. AFAIK Jaune Claire was lead chromate PbCrO4 pigmented dope of dark warm chrome yellow hue. Aluminized dope was pigmented with a mixture of PbCrO4 (58% of weight) and aluminum powder (42%). Thus the latter was more gray/greenish and a little bit darker that "pure" color. Tomasz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:27:25 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: <000b01c1a409$50d546a0$0fe82341@tampabay.rr.com> > > In early SPAD XIIIs where the machine is in clear-doped fabric what did the > manufacturer/sub-contractors use to paint the metal sections of the airframe > to approximate to the unpainted fabric? What sort of advice can listees > give on paint-mixing to achieve whatever the colour/shade might have been? Tom: I just did that on the Spad A.2 I'm building. The photo I'm working from shows the painted metal parts just a shade or so darker than the CDL. I took the CDL I mixed (a slightly yellowish tone of CDL) and added some light gray to it, over did it and corrected with a drop of orcher and a few of white and came up with something a little darker and slightly colder than the CDL. The warmer tone on the CDL and the colder on the panels aids in fooling the eye into seeing a difference in the underlying structure, (sheet metal vs fabric covered structure). They mixed the paint to match so the main difference besides being a near match would be the difference caused by painting the underlying solid panels vs the translucent doped fabric/frame structure of the CDL covered portions. I'm not sure that makes sense to anyone other than me, but I like the effect on the model. hth sp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 04:33:38 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Butterfly wasRe: RE: Pegasus decals? Message-ID: <101178932901@smtp.vphos.net> Yup. . it stays yesterday until I go to bed or it becomes afternoon .. in which case I change the date. tis 4:30 am right now .. almost bedtime as I have to be up in under 6 hours Bob ---------- >From: Crawford Neil > > Oh, so your'e still doing yesterday! > /Neil C. (Just going to get some coffee after lunch, tomorrow) > > > >> Bob >> who can be petty and hold a grudge if need be and yes, I am >> up too late >> working on IM. . can't you tell? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 06:46:13 -0600 From: "ZELNICK, KENNETH T" To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Mortar shells Message-ID: <15888960D28CD211AD1900105A24907803EC9554@ano-exs02.ano.entergy.com> Greetings all, Sorry for the late post, but I'm in digest mode. Lee wrote concerning mortar shells: > They can arrive at ground level going a good deal faster than they went up. Lee, I respectfully disagree with you on this point. In an ideal system with no losses, and assuming the impact point is at the same elevation as the launch point, the impact velocity should be the same as the muzzle velocity. To be otherwise would violate conservation of energy, or momentum, or something like that. Just trying to recall my high school and college physics, Ken Zelnick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:05:50 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: <005f01c1a40e$b018d780$0200a8c0@x.pl> Tomasz wrote: > AFAIK Jaune Claire was lead chromate PbCrO4 pigmented dope of dark warm > chrome yellow hue. Aluminized dope was pigmented with a mixture of PbCrO4 > (58% of weight) and aluminum powder (42%). Thus the latter was more > gray/greenish and a little bit darker that "pure" color. Ha! Ha! Goworek's book!!! Grzegorz _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:14:40 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Baracca's horse Message-ID: >From: "David's Mail Lists" > >It was mother of Baracca who gave Enzo the permission to use his >cavalino >rampante as the personal emblem for the Scuderia Ferrari, >which ran Alfa >Romeos. After WWI the emblem was used for the Ferrari factory as well. >However, you will see that factor team cars always had >a 2nd emble for the >scuderia or race team. > >The Porsche horse comes from the seal of Stuttgart. This is what I had read; namely Enzo quoted as saying that he should take her son's emblem for good luckk and put it on his cars. The question is where did Baracca himself obtain the emblem - his family's coat of arms or some other source? Michael _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:16:13 +0000 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Mortar shells Message-ID: > To be otherwise would violate conservation of energy, or >momentum, or something like that. Let's just call it Newton......... N -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:19:02 +0000 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: > Aluminized dope was pigmented with a mixture of >PbCrO4 >> (58% of weight) and aluminum powder (42%). I'd be interested to know how many percent that left for the dope....... N -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:17:03 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: control surface positioning Message-ID: Alvie wrote: >This is true. The rudder on my C152 was next to useless. The plane could >very > > well be flown with the feet planted firmly on the floor. These cessna pilots are all a bunch of slackers. Get a glider and try the same stunt. You'll loose a few meters on each turn. psst! D. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world抯 largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:33:31 +0100 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: > I'd be interested to know how many percent that left for the dope....... :o) I mean that they mixed PbCrO4 and aluminum powder at 58:42 ratio, and THEN added the pigment mixture to clear dope. Tomasz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:33:33 +0100 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: > Ha! > Ha! > Goworek's book!!! Indeed. Grzegorz, I see you can recall every phrase from that book :o)) Tomasz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:43:02 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: New Madman sighted.... Message-ID: Certainly, the work of Ken F is something to behold... A new name to write down on my little black book, next to Alberto's... (also laughing evilly, flashing cape and fading into shadows) D. Wearing a light khaki cape, for summer use. It doesn't fade too well into shadows but it's cool. >From: "Nigel Rayner" >Just checking out the site updates and indeed Alberto's Nieuport Albatros >is >amazing. But then I checked the other new stuff. Just go and check out Ken >Foran's latest. He is way off in Landoni la-la land. Scratchbuilt 1/16 >Fokker DrI out of brass with guns with a round in the breech and cocking >levers that pivot. This is just unbelievable! Ken, if you're out there, >speak to us (ask the nurse to loosen the straps first.....). > >Cheers, > >Nigel R > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:45:05 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: That book is excellent, even if I can't descipher most of the text! I wish that it may be published in spanish, some day! :-0 D. >From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" >Reply-To: wwi@wwi-models.org >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WWI] RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels >Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:35:44 -0500 (EST) > > > Ha! > > Ha! > > Goworek's book!!! > >Indeed. Grzegorz, I see you can recall every phrase from that book :o)) > >Tomasz > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:48:08 EST From: KnnthS@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: sp writes: << I'm not sure that makes sense to anyone other than me, but I like the effect on the model. >> and there's the wisdom... -A Buncha Guys Named Ira ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:54:12 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: goodies in the mail Message-ID: Hey! My friendly mailman brought me some goodies yesterday... Dave! Thanks a lot for the Blu Tack! Strange substance, never saw something like this around here... Mart韓, ten閟 que ver este pegote, que ni levanta la pintura! Thanks a lot Dave, I'll use in my next project (probably in placing the undercarriage vees of the nieuport 28 before glue) Also, a friend sent me two Roseplane resins, nieuport 24 and Nieuport 27.... they're vitually the same, except that the 27 has aeroclub metal parts too (and the wrong type of rudder!). How accurate are they? The fuselages are mostly solid and the wings are a bit clumsy.... what's your opinion on this Matt, Mike? D. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:56:46 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: RE: SPAD XIII - Metal Panels Message-ID: <008b01c1a415$ce77a2e0$0200a8c0@x.pl> > > Aluminized dope was pigmented with a mixture of > >PbCrO4 > >> (58% of weight) and aluminum powder (42%). > > I'd be interested to know how many percent that left for the dope....... > N The rest. That 100% are said about PIGMENT, not complete mixture. G. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:57:45 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: SPAD middle struts Message-ID: I tought on this feature too... I wonder if making them as separate parts (mid-rigging stick, upper struts, lower struts) mat help to mimic the weak appearance of the original. Or just show the weakness of my ideas. D. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:55:28 -0500 From: Balzer Mr Gregory P To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Marine Corps Museum Message-ID: <47637867E285D5118FAE00B0D0D1C976013C2796@TECOM03E> Good Morning Everyone, Yesterday afternoon Sanjeev and I were able to get into the 1900 - 1939 portion of the museum aboard Quantico. We were able to get some photos of the Renault tank, the five-ton tractor, the King armored car, a "liberty vehicle" and a field ambulance. They also had some sort of a 1918 7" artillery piece on an interesting track system, an original Jenny, a Thomas Morse S4C "Scout", and a LeRhone engine. Due to some problems getting the museum open, we were limited in the amount of time we had to take photos. Sanjeev was able to get quite a few shots of the Renault tank, but for the rest we took general photos, so that everyone could see what they have, and if you want more specific shots we can reschedule to get exactly what you want. I believe that Sanjeev will be burning a CD of what we have, if you are interested, please contact me offlist. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:01:34 +1100 From: "Neil Eddy" To: Subject: WW1 Model Gallery Message-ID: <000901c1a416$78128540$432832d2@mannock> Hi All I found this gallery while surfin'. Some nice subjects and models here.... http://www.us-aircraft.com/steve_lawson_gallery.htm All the Best Neil E. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:48:43 -0500 From: Dave Townsend To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Red Baron Book Message-ID: <3C4ECD4B.8060106@patriot.net> Chris B wrote: > ... I saw Three Wings for the Red Baron Von Richthofen, Strategy, >Tactics, and Airplanes and would like to get opinions. I have the book somewhere in the stacks. It's history, not aimed at the modeler at all. The author is an aeronautical engineer, and it is the explanation of the physics of triplanes and thick wings that is the primary strength of the book. In spite of the title, there's some analysis of the Sopwith Triplane as well. I learned some good things (but then I don't know much about aero engineering). On the other hand, the writing is pedestrian at best and the author's psychoanalysis is sometimes unconvincing. I'll dig out the book and provide more specifics if you like. Dave Townsend townsend@patriot.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:48:06 -0500 From: Balzer Mr Gregory P To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Nigels mortars: Message-ID: <47637867E285D5118FAE00B0D0D1C976013C27A3@TECOM03E> I was a 60mm mortar platoon commander for about two years, and transitioned the Marine Corps from the old M-19 to the new M224. In my experience, you might see a flash as the round exited the tube, but distance and speed made it impossible to follow it in flight. Having spent a tour in Beirut, my personal experience is that mortars were far worse on the nerves than artillery. You hear the discharge of the piece, and in time, with artillery, you get a feel as to where it's going. With mortars, don't bother looking for the round, head for the nearest hole! I never recall looking up and seeing a round in the air at max ord, too high, too fast, too small. The only rounds I ever tracked in flight were .50 cal tracer rounds at night. FWIW, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Shane Weier [mailto:sdw@qld.mim.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 9:27 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] Re: Nigels mortars: Neil says: > Other accounts describe the "rush" > of the shell to > its target on the downwards arc of the trajectory, following > a lazy upwards arc. The same (with negligible variations) maths governs the upwards flight as the downwards. Upwards it starts at muzzle velocity and decelerates by 9.8m/sec/sec plus effects of drag. Going down it accelerates at 9.8m/sec/sec less effects of drag. Victim hears "BANG" and looks up. By the time he sights the minnie it's decelerated at travelling slowly. At some point it ceases to go up and at that point its vertical velocity is zip. Down she comes, and also, incidentally, a horizontal component. Accelerating by the square of course, which means it gets faster, faster (and incidentally, is also coming towards you with the horizontal component of the motion which was also so on the way up but THEN it was tangential and not nearly so scary) Add a very large pucker factor and is it any wonder we get descriptions of the "rush" to the target at the end of flight? Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. 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