WWI Digest 4077 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.. by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 2) Re: Hello - Breguet decals by "David Layton" 3) Color films was:Red or Yellow by Karen Rychlewski 4) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by "Bob Pearson" 5) Re: Hello - Breguet decals by "Bob Pearson" 6) Albertos new Fokker images on the website by Ray Boorman 7) RE: Color films was:Red or Yellow by Shane Weier 8) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Shane Weier 9) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Ray Boorman 10) 北京三星级酒店168元 by wwi@mustang.sr.unh.edu 11) RE: Decal suggestion for Bob by Crawford Neil 12) R: Re: Ni 17 front fuselage panels by "a.casirati@cornali-trasporti.it" 13) Decals for sale by "Bob Pearson" 14) PKZ-2 by "Pedro Soares" 15) RE: Red or Yellow by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 16) RE: Aircraft dimensions by Tom Gourdie 17) New addition by "Matt Bittner" 18) Re: Aircraft dimensions by Crawford Neil 19) Conference calls/best quality/$.18 per minute! by "conferencing@cs.uregina.ca" 20) Re: Hello - Breguet decals by "Matt Bittner" 21) Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals by Jan Vihonen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:20:02 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.. Message-ID: Ross; Lee has just sent me some photos of a Thomas Morse Scout off list after a thirty minute flight, that are similar to what I had in mind....oily bits and globs over the engine and inner cowl/engine bulkhead, drips from the cut outs, dripping down onto the undercarriage, and probably on the Tripe, all over the exhaust channel. I don't want to go the 'weathering whole hog' as I said, because I think the aircraft would have been kept essentially pretty clean. I will be weathering in other ways, lightening here, darkening there, dry brushes etc etc. Also for a model like this, I've so far taken an approach of 'if in doubt, leave it out' re certain details - major weathering being one of them - Mind you I've learnt a fair bit about Tripes since this marriage began three months ago. I'll send you the photos Lee took, so you can see what I mean to sort of do. All the Best Neil But could you not do it a bit oily/dirty just landed look?? I just have this thing against clean shining planes. Bit like the engine on my bike. You know its got oil as there is a few leaks of fresh oil. No its not a Brit bike either. Ross _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:57:18 -0600 From: "David Layton" To: Subject: Re: Hello - Breguet decals Message-ID: <011101c19e52$a83c1020$416cd918@DavidLayton> The Breguet 14, there is a wonderful HiTech in 1/48 and Pegasus in 1/72. How about Breguet decals, other than 'Leon'. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:19:16 -0500 From: Karen Rychlewski To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Color films was:Red or Yellow Message-ID: <3C451B63.C62F9544@earthlink.net> Warning: longish message about film...tiny OT content Jumping into this a little late, but here's my two cents worth: Chris gave good advice when recommending color slide film instead of color print film (the ones that say "-chrome" in their name) for color fidelity. However, be aware that slide film is much less forgiving of under-/overexposure than print film and if you DO want prints, it usually costs a fortune. Slide film seems to be less widely available also. And slide scanners ain't cheap; the flatbed scanner attachments to scan slides, IMHO, are not worth their additional cost. Despite Bob Laskodi's lament at the loss of "Mom and Pop" film processors, I think there are still a number of alternatives. Many US malls have a "1 Hour Photo" or equivalent, where you can watch a huge machine eat a roll of unprocessed film and spit out prints at its far end. These machines are calibrated for 'average' snapshots of Granny and the kids, not the type of pictures one takes in an aviation museum. But these places usually have a 'customer satisfaction guarantee' and will re-print pictures you're unhappy with (within reason...). And a little-known fact is that a skilled operator of the machine can make adjustments to change the color balance of the prints. So make friends with your local emporium clerks. On the advice of including a color chart in the first few shots of a roll of film: while that's excellent advice, lots of us have trouble remembering to take spare batteries to a museum, much less a color chart. My suggestion would be to have a person (friend, passer-by, cute child, etc.) stand next to what you want to photograph and take a waist-up shot or two of that person. Then when you ask the nice man at the machine to reprint the badly-colored prints, he'll have a reference. If a person's skin tones come out OK, the rest of the colors probably will be too. My best suggestion for people who have some Photoshop-type skills is to shoot color film (whatever type you like best), have it processed, and send the negatives to Kodak to be scanned onto a "Kodak Photo CD". Then you can make changes to the color to your heart's content. Be certain your negs are sent somewhere to Kodak for this service--clerks who say they can "put your pictures on a disk" in the shop will NOT be doing it properly. Kodak Photo CD is a proprietary digital file format that is ONLY done by Kodak and the yellow father's designated agents. They are not JPEGs. Costs less than a dollar per negative--can do a lot of negatives for the price of a slide scanner... Just my opinions; trying to help out all the folks who want to take better pictures of Camels and Spads (finally, the OT content!) Karen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:06:11 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <101116294301@smtp.vphos.net> >From: Ray Boorman > > Now with all the care most airframes lasted no more than months. > Barkers Camel was at a year old an anomaly. And even that one went through a couple sets of wings and a new fuselage as well. . a veritable 'Washington's Hatchet" was ol' B6313 Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:20:05 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Hello - Breguet decals Message-ID: <101116294701@smtp.vphos.net> Now that is a good idea. .. I have the basic Br14 done up, just need to shade it (I did it about 2-3 years ago. ... ) Bob ---------- >From: "David Layton" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WWI] Re: Hello - Breguet decals >Date: Tue, Jan 15, 2002, 9:56 pm > > The Breguet 14, there is a wonderful HiTech in 1/48 and Pegasus in 1/72. > > How about Breguet decals, other than 'Leon'. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:39:53 -0800 From: Ray Boorman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Albertos new Fokker images on the website Message-ID: <20020116064052.UCBX3508.priv-edtnes16-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> After looking through the new images, all I can say Alberto is you must have the patience of Jove, the hands of a surgeon and I have no idea how you stay sane! Darn that brings new levels to I'm not worthy. Anyone who hasnt looked at Alberto's new images should go look. Darned impressive is all I can say Ray - anyone got an emoticon for shaking head in disbelief ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:49:39 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Color films was:Red or Yellow Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDA4B@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Karen, > Despite Bob Laskodi's lament at the loss of "Mom and Pop" > film processors, I > think there are still a number of alternatives. Many US malls > have a "1 Hour > Photo" or equivalent, where you can watch a huge machine eat a roll of > unprocessed film and spit out prints at its far end. (snip) > > My best suggestion for people who have some Photoshop-type > skills is to shoot > color film (whatever type you like best), have it processed, > and send the > negatives to Kodak to be scanned onto a "Kodak Photo CD". > Then you can make > changes to the color to your heart's content. Be certain your > negs are sent > somewhere to Kodak for this service--clerks who say they can > "put your pictures > on a disk" in the shop will NOT be doing it properly. Kodak > Photo CD is a > proprietary digital file format that is ONLY done by Kodak > and the yellow > father's designated agents. They are not JPEGs. Costs less > than a dollar per > negative--can do a lot of negatives for the price of a slide > scanner... Pretty good advice, all. FWIW in Australia, many of those 1 hour photo shops are painted all yellow and red and have "Kodak" written all over them. They are well capable of producing a CD and will ask you whether you want Kodak proprietary or JPEG files when you order. AND many, if not all, will be able to correct colours at printing. There are at least three such shops in the Brisbane city centre, each is a franchise, but in this case all are owned by the same franchisee. I asked, and found he only has a single operator skilled enough for the times my pics need carefull correction. I *ask* and the film is sent from where I drop it off, to another shop for processing. Similar situations presumably apply elsewhere. The hole in the front of the head can be utilised for asking questions in almost any country ;-) Shane > ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:50:23 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDA4C@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Bob says: > And even that one went through a couple sets of wings and a > new fuselage as > well. . a veritable 'Washington's Hatchet" was ol' B6313 LOL So that's what y'all call the bushmans axe. Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:51:51 -0800 From: Ray Boorman To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <20020116065517.UYOD28767.priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> As much as its good that the fuselage of Barkers Sopwith Snipe was preserved, I really wish B6313 had been preserved as well. I know there's lots of argument about accuracy of allied victory counts etc, but this aircraft arguably had more victories than any other single aircraft as well as being one of the longest lived operationally. I know Barker strapped extra undercarriage parts to his RE8 but was this true later when he was flying the Camel. (Supposedly Barker was somewhat rough on landings) if this is true then it makes it even more unusual for one aircraft to last that long. I wonder if they had lots of spare parts in Italy but a shortage of new aircraft?? Ray On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:38:11 -0500 (EST), Bob Pearson wrote: >>From: Ray Boorman > >> >> Now with all the care most airframes lasted no more than months. >> Barkers Camel was at a year old an anomaly. > >And even that one went through a couple sets of wings and a new >fuselage as >well. . a veritable 'Washington's Hatchet" was ol' B6313 > >Bob > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:02:06 From: wwi@mustang.sr.unh.edu To: wwi@mustang.sr.unh.edu Subject: 北京三星级酒店168元 Message-ID: <775445D51603.ABCEBD@mail.99e.net> New Page 1

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v ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:59:14 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Decal suggestion for Bob Message-ID: 4, count me in /Neil C. > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Perry [mailto:sperry03@tampabay.rr.com] > Sent: den 16 januari 2002 03:50 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Decal suggestion for Bob > > > I can pretty well assure you of at least 3 interested in a > Spad logo for the > nose of a pulpit fighter. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:49:10 +0100 From: "a.casirati@cornali-trasporti.it" To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: R: Re: Ni 17 front fuselage panels Message-ID: <43EB244779F3D411966E0060082C59E906F378@SERVER1> Thanks, Alvie ! This is exactly what I thought but that picture really suggests no fabric covering on the outside surface, which looks as it was merely painted ! Really a curious picture... Alberto -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Michael and Sharon Alvarado, NSWCC [SMTP:sm5192@verizon.net] Inviato: mercoledi 16 gennaio 2002 3.04 A: Multiple recipients of list Oggetto: [WWI] Re: Ni 17 front fuselage panels Alberto, The forward fuselage of Nieuport fighters were covered in fabric covered (on the exterior surface) detachable wooden panels. These panels were made up of this strips of Tulip wood laid out in a fashion similar to that used in Pfalz aircraft. That is one layer laid out at a 45 degree angle, a layer of cloth and then a second layer of wood stripos laid at 90 degrees to the first layer. For strength, water proofing and to avoid splintering a layer of cloth was laid over the outside surface of the finished panels. Even the inspection hole covers were wood. Alvie "a.casirati@cornali-trasporti.it" wrote: > I have always believed that the front fuselage panels of the Ni 17, and > especially the lateral ones, were fabric covered. > > At least one contemporary picture suggests that I am wrong. Thanks to Ing. > Maurizio Longoni, I got a copy of a close-up picture of a Ni 17's external > nose surfaces, which clearly shows the typical wooden strips which made > those panels and which I was used to see in pictures of cockpits only. > > Was this standard practice ? If so, were there differences in this respect > between French and Italian productions ? > > Alberto Casirati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:16:58 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: ww1 mailing list Subject: Decals for sale Message-ID: <101116913001@smtp.vphos.net> Hi all, Just to reiterate, the following decal sets are available for $5 each 1/48 USAS insignias 13, 94, 103, 138, 139 AS 1/72 USAS insignias 13, 94, 103, 138, 139 AS 1/48 Salmson Escadrille Insignia SAL.1, SAL.32, SAL.33, SAL.59 1/72 Salmson Escadrille Insignia SAL.1, SAL.32, SAL.33, SAL.59 I have just added generic serials to the Salmson sheet. These will enable any combination of two numbers per serial. A sheet of roundels scaled to the Salmson can also be added. I am almost out of decal sheets and will be ordering more next week, but still have enough to do up a bunch of these ones. As we have already spent a good deal of today's list time on these, any orders offlist please. More to come. .. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:21:50 -0000 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: PKZ-2 Message-ID: <002801c19e66$d8d56100$3b7016d5@netcabo.pt> Hi, Does anyone have the mini DF on this thing? I am curious about what colours it states for it because I don't agree with what Roden recommends, i.e, 4 or 5 different shades of grey. The pictures on the FMP A-H book make me think most of it it's different shades of metal...has anyone any clue? Thanks Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:38:00 +0000 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Red or Yellow Message-ID: Well, it is a relative: Fuji records colours slightly warmer than Kodak, BUT remember that the negative is only the intermediate stage. They can be printed with whatever colour bias the printer fancies. Since most of the are set up to print Kodak with a pretty neutral balance, if you print Fuji at the same settings the prints will be warm. Equally if you set up to print Fuji neutrally, then Kodak negs printed at the same settings will be cool. There is another problem: contrast and saturation. These are inbuilt in the film and paper. Research has shown that we have got used to colour TV and we like bright, contrasty, colourful images. Amateur films and colour papers are designed to give this "larger-than-life" rendering. If you use amateur materials, this is what you will get. Answer is to use only professional films and processors. So, to get the best results you must: 1) Use a Professional film, eg Fuji NSP 160 and expose it correctly in standard lighting, preferably electronic flash. Fuji Reala is pretty good too. 2) Do a refence shot of an 18% Grey card or include a strip of it down the edge of the shot, to be cropped later. 3) If you must, do a reference shot of a Macbeth colour chart for later comparison. 4) Go to a PROFESSIONAL processor, it will cost real money, but the results will be transformed. It typically costs four times as much here in UK, but worth it. hth N ><warm...>> (But aren't Kodak films a little blue?) -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:38:03 -0000 From: Tom Gourdie To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Aircraft dimensions Message-ID: Tom S Thanks to all who have contributed to the answers to my question. This is helpful and I think I now have a clearer idea of measurement parameters. To keep it OT my request was specifically related to aircraft of the 1914-18 period but I expect you all know that! many thanks. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Solinski [mailto:tskio4@home.com] Sent: 16 January 2002 01:35 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] RE: Aircraft dimensions is it the height of the airframe or the height to the tip of the > >vertically postioned propellor or is it influenced by the attitude of the > >aircraft ie, sitting on its tailskid or in an in-flight attitude? > It has been my humble 25 years of experience that we in the industry usually talk about projected dimensions. That is with the aircraft in the normal ground sitting position how big of a hangar do you need. In the case of height, to the top of the vertical fin, unless like in the case of a biplane the top wing is the highest point. The propellers aren't normally counted because you can turn them to a lower position. Can't do that with a fixed surface. But then you may often see an "engineering" picture with the aircraft raised to an in-flight level position with the tail up on a saw horse. Now you get a projected dimensions equal to the actual length of the airplane , but you get the tail higher than you will ever get it in any other configuration. Simple answer to the highest fixed point on the airplane in a at rest position. That determines the hangar dimensions. HTH Tom S your local FAA engineer. This message is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately. You may not copy it or use this message for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person or take any action based on them. E-Mails are susceptible to interference. UCAS accepts no responsibility for information, errors or omissions in this e-mail nor for its use or misuse nor for any act committed or omitted in connection with this communication. If in doubt, please verify the authenticity of the contents with the sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:49:53 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: New addition Message-ID: Just added Pedro's latest, a MAC Phonix D.I. Superb work, Pedro!! Matt Bittner WW1 Modeling Page Assistant Editor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:20:15 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Aircraft dimensions Message-ID: This was interesting Tom, I love aviation anecdotes like this, but why did you want to get the nose back on? I presume this was a crash investigation. It does sort of illustrate what I meant though, even if you did use a tape measure, it wasn't something you did in a coffe break, /Neil C, > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Solinski [mailto:tskio4@home.com] > Sent: den 16 januari 2002 03:15 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Re: Aircraft dimensions > > > > > > > Imagine the logistics of measuring something like a Gotha > > or a HP 0/400, it's not just something you put a tape > > measure to! > > /Neil C: > > > > Oh but you do! > > I once "shot in" a KC-135 that had the entire nose broken off > midway between > the nosewheel and the wing LE. My tools were a surveyors > theodilite, (the > line that you shoot with this is called a transit) plumbobs > and a 100 foot > tape measure! With a little jacking and a lot of contractor > personnel > sweat, the nose and the rest of the airplane were with in > 1/32 of where they > were supposed to be so that we could patch them back together. > > Toms > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 06:47:53 -0500 (EST) From: "conferencing@cs.uregina.ca" To: "3302@yahoo.com" <3302@yahoo.com> Subject: Conference calls/best quality/$.18 per minute! Message-ID: <1011202239.0184705019@hermes.cs.uregina.ca> Take Control Of Your Conference Calls

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    ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 05:51:10 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: Hello - Breguet decals Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:56:37 -0500 (EST), David Layton wrote: > The Breguet 14, there is a wonderful HiTech in 1/48 and Pegasus in 1/72. > > How about Breguet decals, other than 'Leon'. Another great choice. Another that MPM/Azur has announced for release "sometime". Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:00:13 +0200 From: Jan Vihonen To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: <3C456B4D.849FE795@helsinki.fi> Matt, What was wrong with A/G roundels? The white printed only partly under the red and showing through in two different shades? Could this problem be fixed if the decal is attached on top of white painted circle of same diameter, do you think? Just a thought (implying some extra work), Jan > Now here *is* a use for the A/G roundels, as he has the blue > centers separate. Yes, it will be a lot more money, but since > the A/G red/white is a huge problem, there's nothing we can do at > the moment until we get decent French roundels. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4077 **********************
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