WWI Digest 4076 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by "Ross Moorhouse" 2) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Shane Weier 3) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Ray Boorman 4) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by "Ross Moorhouse" 5) RE: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel by Ray Boorman 6) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by "Ross Moorhouse" 7) Re: Hello - Bassett decals by KnnthS@aol.com 8) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Ray Boorman 9) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Shane Weier 10) RE: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel att by KarrArt@aol.com 11) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by "ibs4421" 12) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 13) Re: "One Airmans War" by "Ross Moorhouse" 14) 请仔细阅读此信!相信我.如此信打扰了你.抱歉! by "ws@chinatools.biz" 15) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 16) Re: "One Airmans War" by Shane Weier 17) Re: "One Airmans War" by "Ross Moorhouse" 18) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.. by "Ross Moorhouse" 19) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by "Lee M." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:51:17 +1100 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <009f01c19e41$0d8b9980$3b482dcb@nsw.bigpond.net.au> Ok I will take it that moving parts are cleaned far more under the conditions of the Mid East. But as to some of the flying surfaces and the oil soaking in and collecting dust photos show a very dark stain. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Weier" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 2:46 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. | | Ross, | | > Looking at photos of the planes in the Mid East cant say they | > are cleaned much. | | Read Joe Bulls Diary. You could not be more wrong. | | *However* the conditions - dust and so on - made *keeping* things clean a | near impossibility | | Shane | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > | | | ********************************************************************** | The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is | intended only for the use of the addressee(s). | If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or | copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to | forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the | MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. | | For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 | Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au | Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 | International ++61 7 38338042 | ********************************************************************** | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:58:12 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDA48@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Ross, > Ok I will take it that moving parts are cleaned far more under the > conditions of the Mid East. But as to some of the flying > surfaces and the > oil soaking in and collecting dust photos show a very dark stain. Not just the moving parts. Bull repeatedly notes spending the day cleaning the fabric of the aircraft in his care. I know they look dirty - I have no argument about that. But they *were* cleaned down, all over, and frequently. Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:00:41 -0800 From: Ray Boorman To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <20020116040350.PSHE16355.priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> Ross, Shane is correct, doesn't matter where the aircraft operated they would have kept them as clean as conditions allowed. Some other reasons to keep the airframe clean. Weight for one, these aircraft were not exactly overpowered therefore the cleaner the airframe the better, oil soaked fabric is not a good idea it then soaks into any wood and the airframe can take on pounds more weight. Problems with the airframe. If its clean you'll see any problems like cracks or splits in wood parts and rips in fabric or lacings coming away. I mentioned earlier that Castor is caustic so can rot wood and paint rather like brake fluid can. Now with all the care most airframes lasted no more than months. Barkers Camel was at a year old an anomaly. On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:51:34 -0500 (EST), Ross Moorhouse wrote: >Ok I will take it that moving parts are cleaned far more under the >conditions of the Mid East. But as to some of the flying surfaces >and the >oil soaking in and collecting dust photos show a very dark stain. > >Ross > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:05:54 +1100 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <00ab01c19e43$180baba0$3b482dcb@nsw.bigpond.net.au> Pity the poor aircraftman that had the job of trying to keep them clean. Only to see the engine start up and a cloud of oil and dust cover the plane again. LOL.. Enough to make you want to transfer to the Western Front. ;-) Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Weier" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:00 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. | Ross, | | > Ok I will take it that moving parts are cleaned far more under the | > conditions of the Mid East. But as to some of the flying | > surfaces and the | > oil soaking in and collecting dust photos show a very dark stain. | | Not just the moving parts. Bull repeatedly notes spending the day cleaning | the fabric of the aircraft in his care. | | I know they look dirty - I have no argument about that. But they *were* | cleaned down, all over, and frequently. | | Shane | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ********************************************************************** | The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is | intended only for the use of the addressee(s). | If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or | copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to | forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the | MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. | | For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 | Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au | Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 | International ++61 7 38338042 | ********************************************************************** | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:07:26 -0800 From: Ray Boorman To: Subject: RE: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel Message-ID: <20020116041035.UGQY28767.priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> Shane, On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:49:03 -0500 (EST), Shane Weier wrote: >Ray says: > >Perhaps so. OTOH I betcha that if it were a Mercedes it wouldn't >have castor >oil in it. > >(because every drop of castor oil the Germans had was reserved for >rotaries, >which needed its higher qualities) > >Shane > Yup you're right Castor was in very short supply and the attempts at substitution caused all sorts of engine problems. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:13:13 +1100 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <00c201c19e44$1dc06f80$3b482dcb@nsw.bigpond.net.au> I don't disagree with Shane. He's from Queenland so we have to humour them up there the poor soles. ;-) The supply of planes to the Mid East would not of been as quick as to the Western Front so I assume they would of keep them going as best as possible. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Boorman" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:06 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. | Ross, Shane is correct, doesn't matter where the aircraft operated | they would have kept them as clean as conditions allowed. Some other | reasons to keep the airframe clean. | | Weight for one, these aircraft were not exactly overpowered therefore | the cleaner the airframe the better, oil soaked fabric is not a good | idea it then soaks into any wood and the airframe can take on pounds | more weight. | Problems with the airframe. If its clean you'll see any problems like | cracks or splits in wood parts and rips in fabric or lacings coming | away. | | I mentioned earlier that Castor is caustic so can rot wood and paint | rather like brake fluid can. | | Now with all the care most airframes lasted no more than months. | Barkers Camel was at a year old an anomaly. | | On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:51:34 -0500 (EST), Ross Moorhouse wrote: | >Ok I will take it that moving parts are cleaned far more under the | >conditions of the Mid East. But as to some of the flying surfaces | >and the | >oil soaking in and collecting dust photos show a very dark stain. | > | >Ross | > | | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:22:04 EST From: KnnthS@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Hello - Bassett decals Message-ID: Matt writes: << cross between a Rottweiler and a Bassett. >> one wonders after geometry, here. (you would, they yelled in unison) Ken, yes, I would ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:19:47 -0800 From: Ray Boorman To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <20020116042256.UICT28767.priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> lol so is up down for us northern hemisphere types?? We have the same problem with Newfies here you really have to feel for them....... ;0) On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:13:40 -0500 (EST), Ross Moorhouse wrote: >I don't disagree with Shane. He's from Queenland so we have to >humour them >up there the poor soles. ;-) > >The supply of planes to the Mid East would not of been as quick as >to the >Western Front so I assume they would of keep them going as best as >possible. > >Ross ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:24:13 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDA49@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Ross, > I don't disagree with Shane. He's from Queenland so we have > to humour them > up there the poor soles. ;-) You accusing me of being a fish now? > The supply of planes to the Mid East would not of been as > quick as to the > Western Front so I assume they would of keep them going as > best as possible. Yes. But of course, they wore out more quickly ;-) You *really* need to read Joe Bulls diary. I think it's called "One Airmans War" or something similar. Bull was an airframe fitter at 1AFC and his diary is a goldmine of information about the amount of work needed to keep an OT aircraft in the air. Something we should keep in mind - that in 1914-18 these machines that we think of as rudimentary were THE state of the art and treated (within the limits of what they had) at least as well as we'd look after a current day aircraft. Shane > ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:24:54 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel att Message-ID: In a message dated 1/15/02 7:18:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, sdw@qld.mim.com.au writes: << I wonder how the hell castor oil got into an inline engine, where it has no business whatever. >> Quoting Peter Jowett, one of the head cheeses who revived the old engine ".........we encountered our first problem, for Hispanos were run on castor oil". Following a very detailed account of the strip down and rebuild, he says "We are still using castor oil, but it is now an inhibited oil which does not gum." WW I Aero is always full of these kinds of things, sometimes not directly related to modeling, but the hard core mechanical stuff can help with questions like "what is that doodad that sticks out of the frembulator on the left side?" RK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:35:45 -0600 From: "ibs4421" To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <024401c19e47$44261e60$973dfad1@dwfjv01> > Pity the poor aircraftman that had the job of trying to keep them clean. Ross, Shane has a point though that I think many miss unless you have been associated with the military at all, as I know Shane has. This "cleaning bit" is the bane of EM the world over, and throughout time. It doesn't matter if it will do any good to "clean it", or if "it" can be cleaned at all, but by jove you had dang better sure be going through the motions of doing so, or have some kind of proof to the Officer of the Day that you have or it's extra duty for you. Warren Who has cleaned his share of mud out of road wheels/bogies . . Just to see 'em fill up again in five minutes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:34:50 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: Hi Guys; Mulling over the replies re castor oil etc, for my "Blymp", for the airframe anyway, I'm going for cleaner rather than dirtier. "Blymp II" was a relatively new aircraft when Little flew her meaning less wear and tear, also Naval Eight was an elite unit, and given it was an RNAS unit also, I figure it was kept pretty clean. From what can be made out from Naval Eight photos, I 'd say this is right. Still the whole debate is interesting - when you look at them, most photos show relatively clean aircraft...all those non flying ground crew NCO's had to look out for something..... LOL (ot Alert!) Not like my Dad's Sunderland's where the bilge was cleaned out of water, vomit, hydraulic fluid and who knows what else every four weeks or so (fortnightly if it was really smelly he said!) All the Best Neil _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:35:30 +1100 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: "One Airmans War" Message-ID: <00ce01c19e47$3a6eefa0$3b482dcb@nsw.bigpond.net.au> I have never heard of this book. Is it on sale here? I would love to read it as I wanted to be an airframe fitter in the RAAF when I left school. But being red/green colour blind meant they would,nt let me do anything but gardens or cook or push a pen. At 15 I was heart broken. Am I calling you a Fish?? Ok A Fish called Shane. Make a good name to a movie. ;-) I never think of OT planes as being old bits of junk. Nothing has really changed with aircraft from then to now. They still need wings to make them fly. ;-) Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Weier" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:26 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. | Ross, | | > I don't disagree with Shane. He's from Queenland so we have | > to humour them | > up there the poor soles. ;-) | | You accusing me of being a fish now? | | > The supply of planes to the Mid East would not of been as | > quick as to the | > Western Front so I assume they would of keep them going as | > best as possible. | | Yes. But of course, they wore out more quickly ;-) | | | You *really* need to read Joe Bulls diary. I think it's called "One Airmans | War" or something similar. Bull was an airframe fitter at 1AFC and his diary | is a goldmine of information about the amount of work needed to keep an OT | aircraft in the air. | | Something we should keep in mind - that in 1914-18 these machines that we | think of as rudimentary were THE state of the art and treated (within the | limits of what they had) at least as well as we'd look after a current day | aircraft. | | | Shane | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > | | | ********************************************************************** | The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is | intended only for the use of the addressee(s). | If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or | copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to | forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the | MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. | | For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 | Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au | Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 | International ++61 7 38338042 | ********************************************************************** | ------------------------------ Date: 2002-1-16 From: "ws@chinatools.biz" Subject: 请仔细阅读此信!相信我.如此信打扰了你.抱歉! 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Message-ID: G'day Ross and the Gang.... Yes Joe Bull's diary is a must read...I read some excerpts a while ago that a friend had...I might check ABE and see if its about...(typical, I saw it at an IPMS swap meet last year and thought I didnt need it...how wrong I was.... :-\ ). All the best Neil E (thinking about beer today - finally its hot in Melbourne!) _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:46:25 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: "One Airmans War" Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDA4A@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Ross, > I have never heard of this book. Is it on sale here? Published here, my copy came to me courtesy of an ex list member who used the wonders of the internet to buy a copy from a store at the Gold Coast wheo posted it to me in time for my birthday. Bull, Joe (Lax, Mark editor): One Airman's War. Aircraft Mechanic Joe Bull's Personal Diaries 1916-1919. Banner Books Maryborough Qld 1st edition 1997. Hylands in Melbourne has it for A$44 Alexanders in Canberra for $47 Pacific Books at the GGold Coast says US$20.73 Take your pick, or borrow it from the library as I did a couple of times. > Am I calling you a Fish?? Ok A Fish called Shane. Make a good > name to a movie. ;-) Well, a "sole" is a fish. (as opposed to a "soul" which I'll generously assume you meant rather than the typo you posted ;-) > I never think of OT planes as being old bits of junk. Nothing > has really > changed with aircraft from then to now. They still need wings > to make them fly. ;-) Except modern aircraft have an inappropriately small number of them. Nothing but their ugliness being repelled by the Earth could keep them up. Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:56:28 +1100 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: "One Airmans War" Message-ID: <00e901c19e4a$28671fa0$3b482dcb@nsw.bigpond.net.au> | > I have never heard of this book. Is it on sale here? | | Published here, my copy came to me courtesy of an ex list member who used | the wonders of the internet to buy a copy from a store at the Gold Coast | wheo posted it to me in time for my birthday. | | Bull, Joe (Lax, Mark editor): One Airman's War. Aircraft Mechanic Joe Bull's | Personal Diaries 1916-1919. | Banner Books Maryborough Qld 1st edition 1997. | | Hylands in Melbourne has it for A$44 | Alexanders in Canberra for $47 | Pacific Books at the GGold Coast says US$20.73 AARGGHH At those prices I will go to the library. ;-) | | Take your pick, or borrow it from the library as I did a couple of times. | | > Am I calling you a Fish?? Ok A Fish called Shane. Make a good | > name to a movie. ;-) | | Well, a "sole" is a fish. (as opposed to a "soul" which I'll generously | assume you meant rather than the typo you posted ;-) LOL.. I did mean soul. I am going crossed eyed at the moment doing graphics for work. | | > I never think of OT planes as being old bits of junk. Nothing | > has really | > changed with aircraft from then to now. They still need wings | > to make them fly. ;-) | | Except modern aircraft have an inappropriately small number of them. Nothing | but their ugliness being repelled by the Earth could keep them up. The only real thing of interest in the skys here is a DC3 that does tourist flights. I live under the flight path from Newcastle to Bankstown Airport. The days of seeing Tiger Moths etc are long gone donw here. :-( | | Shane Ross | | | | | | | | ********************************************************************** | The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is | intended only for the use of the addressee(s). | If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or | copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to | forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the | MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. | | For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 | Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au | Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 | International ++61 7 38338042 | ********************************************************************** | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:03:29 +1100 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.. Message-ID: <011401c19e4b$233e3620$3b482dcb@nsw.bigpond.net.au> But could you not do it a bit oily/dirty just landed look?? I just have this thing against clean shining planes. Bit like the engine on my bike. You know its got oil as there is a few leaks of fresh oil. No its not a Brit bike either. Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:04:01 -0600 From: "Lee M." To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <3C4509C1.E97B3995@x25.net> This is all correct. The painted finish will deteriorate rapidly if not cleaned as soon as practical after each flight. Lee M. Ray Boorman wrote: > > Ross, Shane is correct, doesn't matter where the aircraft operated > they would have kept them as clean as conditions allowed. Some other > reasons to keep the airframe clean. > > Weight for one, these aircraft were not exactly overpowered therefore > the cleaner the airframe the better, oil soaked fabric is not a good > idea it then soaks into any wood and the airframe can take on pounds > more weight. > Problems with the airframe. If its clean you'll see any problems like > cracks or splits in wood parts and rips in fabric or lacings coming > away. > > I mentioned earlier that Castor is caustic so can rot wood and paint > rather like brake fluid can. > > Now with all the care most airframes lasted no more than months. > Barkers Camel was at a year old an anomaly. > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:51:34 -0500 (EST), Ross Moorhouse wrote: > >Ok I will take it that moving parts are cleaned far more under the > >conditions of the Mid East. But as to some of the flying surfaces > >and the > >oil soaking in and collecting dust photos show a very dark stain. > > > >Ross > > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 4076 **********************