WWI Digest 4075 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: List down etc etc. .. by "Bob Pearson" 2) Decal suggestion for Bob by "Steven Perry" 3) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Ray Boorman 4) French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= 5) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by "Ross Moorhouse" 6) Re:Top wing diamond, was Tire Color for Pfalz D.III by KarrArt@aol.com 7) castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E. by KarrArt@aol.com 8) Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals by "ibs4421" 9) Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals by "Bob Pearson" 10) Re: Hello - Salmson decals by tbittners@sprintmail.com 11) Re: Hello - Salmson decals by "Matt Bittner" 12) Re: Decal suggestion for Bob by "Matt Bittner" 13) RE: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel att by Shane Weier 14) Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals by "Matt Bittner" 15) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by "ibs4421" 16) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 17) Re: Hello - Salmson decals by "Bob Pearson" 18) Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals by "Bob Pearson" 19) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by "Ross Moorhouse" 20) RE: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel att by Ray Boorman 21) Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals by "ibs4421" 22) Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals by "Matt Bittner" 23) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Shane Weier 24) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Shane Weier 25) RE: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel by Shane Weier 26) Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. by Ray Boorman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:44:18 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: List down etc etc. .. Message-ID: <101114915401@smtp.vphos.net> Ah .. here they come now. .. only five hours after I sent it ---------- >From: "Bob Pearson" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WWI] Re: Hello - Salmson decals >Date: Tue, Jan 15, 2002, 6:42 pm > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:48:47 -0500 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Decal suggestion for Bob Message-ID: <003501c19e38$53e5a280$0fe82341@tampabay.rr.com> I can pretty well assure you of at least 3 interested in a Spad logo for the nose of a pulpit fighter. It would be a terrible shame if a certian e-zene had to hold the cyber presses for lack of 3 articles which can't be properly finished without such decals ;-) sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:48:40 -0800 From: Ray Boorman To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <20020116024920.NYSW3508.priv-edtnes16-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> Lee, as always makes a good point here. Take a look at a picture of a crashed rotary powered aircraft where its nosed over. The undersurface of the fuselage is covered in dark oil stains. These are worst just around the cowling and go back down the fuselage. They tend to get in the wing roots as well. I would have hated the job of cleaning that mess up. Which brings me to a point the cowling must get hot, now Caster goes a browny colour when its left on metal it forms a really stubborn coating. Take a look at any well used glow plug engine to see this. I wonder if the underside of some cowling would have had this happen. Ray On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:00:25 -0500 (EST), Lee M. wrote: >They are air intake tubes. That is why they are directed forward into >the airstream. The flow of air goes to the end of a very good sized >tapering tube, (inside the fuselage forward area) with a carbureture >on >the end. The air is directed to a box like affair on the end and it >pressurizes the carburetor, and the tube, so it helps put the >Fuel/Oil/Air mixture into the crankcase of the rotating engine >without >depending totally on vacuum inside the crankcase. It works almost >exactly like a 2 cycle model plane engine except the little engine >has a >better vacuum > >The only exhaust system on rotaries are the holes in the cowling to >let >air and stuff get out. On a DR-1 it is (about) the bottom third of >the >cowling. > >Lee M. >New Braunfels, Tx > >ibs4421 wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:27:45 +0800 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: <005501c19e3d$c760fb60$236e160a@CSP00> Beside Bob's remark on: > Only problem with roundels is to make them of a size that is usable on the > various kits. I suppose I could add them to the generic aircraft sets for > double the price :-) That way they are specific to that aircraft type. . and > then rudder stripes would also be needed I see a second problem for French roundels: The rather light, blueish gray color mainly used for French roundels is one that is difficult to reproduce on an ALPS without the "dithering" effect - British roundels are easier due to their darker appearance. But I think a large single colored area of that color is not fully convincing. IMHO, it looks better (for this specific color range) to spray a blue circle (using a mask) and use a white and red color decal only Volker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:00:16 +1100 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <006b01c19e39$ecd9b660$3b482dcb@nsw.bigpond.net.au> Also have a look at the tail surfaces of say a DH.2. They are oil stained as well. Makes the colour seem a bit darker. More so if its just doped linen. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Boorman" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:53 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. | Lee, as always makes a good point here. Take a look at a picture of a | crashed rotary powered aircraft where its nosed over. The | undersurface of the fuselage is covered in dark oil stains. These are | worst just around the cowling and go back down the fuselage. They | tend to get in the wing roots as well. I would have hated the job of | cleaning that mess up. Which brings me to a point the cowling must | get hot, now Caster goes a browny colour when its left on metal it | forms a really stubborn coating. Take a look at any well used glow | plug engine to see this. I wonder if the underside of some cowling | would have had this happen. | | Ray | | On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:00:25 -0500 (EST), Lee M. wrote: | >They are air intake tubes. That is why they are directed forward | into | >the airstream. The flow of air goes to the end of a very good sized | >tapering tube, (inside the fuselage forward area) with a carbureture | >on | >the end. The air is directed to a box like affair on the end and it | >pressurizes the carburetor, and the tube, so it helps put the | >Fuel/Oil/Air mixture into the crankcase of the rotating engine | >without | >depending totally on vacuum inside the crankcase. It works almost | >exactly like a 2 cycle model plane engine except the little engine | >has a | >better vacuum | > | >The only exhaust system on rotaries are the holes in the cowling to | >let | >air and stuff get out. On a DR-1 it is (about) the bottom third of | >the | >cowling. | > | >Lee M. | >New Braunfels, Tx | > | >ibs4421 wrote: | | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:05:48 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re:Top wing diamond, was Tire Color for Pfalz D.III Message-ID: In a message dated 1/15/02 5:40:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, KnnthS@aol.com writes: << < I guess there are precedents for rubber in strange colors. >> well, and jade-look at the filling stations.... >> and glow-in-the-dark..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:11:18 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E. Message-ID: In a message dated 1/15/02 6:55:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, Ray_Boorman@telus.net writes: << Caster goes a browny colour when its left on metal it forms a really stubborn coating. >> The November WW I Aero has an article about getting the Shuttleworth SE5a's engine put into flying shape in the mid60s. The thing had been happily lazing away the decades with its innards still loaded with castor oil. It took six months of soaking in MEK to get this stuff loosened up. RK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:14:39 -0600 From: "ibs4421" To: Subject: Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: <006c01c19e3b$ef8340a0$973dfad1@dwfjv01> > IMHO, it looks better (for this specific color range) to spray a blue > circle (using a mask) and use a white and red color decal only Volker, Good point. I'd be willing to do that. Anybody else? Warren ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:11:02 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: <101115075701@smtp.vphos.net> Volker says. . > I see a second problem for French roundels: The rather light, blueish gray > color mainly used for French roundels is one that is difficult to reproduce > on an ALPS without the "dithering" effect True . . luckily in 1/72 it is so small :-) One other possibility is to go to a slightly darker shade from the extant samples Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:24:05 -0500 (EST) From: tbittners@sprintmail.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: <20020115202405.DD992467CE@eclipse.qis.net> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:20:13 -0500 (EST), CoolSpadLuke@aol.com wrote: > In dinky scale, it's somewhat like a chihuahua trying to emulate a bull mastiff. :-)) Hey, I have a mix breed that while small-ish, is not one to be messed with. He's a cross between a Rottweiler and a Bassett. Think Basset sized with a Rott attitude (and jaw strength). Here, lizard-lizard-lizard... Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:16:06 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:42:38 -0500 (EST), Bob Pearson wrote: > Only problem with roundels is to make them of a size that is usable on the > various kits. I suppose I could add them to the generic aircraft sets for > double the price :-) That way they are specific to that aircraft type. . and > then rudder stripes would also be needed Okay, double the price, then. I have no problem paying it. However, for me you do *not* have to include rudder stripes. I prefer to paint those (assuming you make your roundel colors the same as A/G, Blue Rider and Pegasus). Okay, speaking on the French side... Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:16:55 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: Decal suggestion for Bob Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:49:36 -0500 (EST), Steven Perry wrote: > I can pretty well assure you of at least 3 interested in a Spad logo for the > nose of a pulpit fighter. > > It would be a terrible shame if a certian e-zene had to hold the cyber > presses for lack of 3 articles which can't be properly finished without such > decals ;-) Hear, here!!! And send us roundels, too! ;-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:14:57 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel att Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDA44@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> RK says: > << Caster goes a browny colour when its left on metal it > forms a really stubborn coating. >> > > The November WW I Aero has an article about getting the > Shuttleworth SE5a's > engine put into flying shape in the mid60s. The thing had > been happily lazing > away the decades with its innards still loaded with castor > oil. It took six > months of soaking in MEK to get this stuff loosened up. I wonder how the hell castor oil got into an inline engine, where it has no business whatever. Maybe someone used it to "protect" the engine. Shane > ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:18:15 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:58:07 -0500 (EST), Volker H„usler wrote: > I see a second problem for French roundels: The rather light, blueish gray > color mainly used for French roundels is one that is difficult to reproduce > on an ALPS without the "dithering" effect - British roundels are easier due > to their darker appearance. But I think a large single colored area of that > color is not fully convincing. > > IMHO, it looks better (for this specific color range) to spray a blue > circle (using a mask) and use a white and red color decal only Now here *is* a use for the A/G roundels, as he has the blue centers separate. Yes, it will be a lot more money, but since the A/G red/white is a huge problem, there's nothing we can do at the moment until we get decent French roundels. Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:26:46 -0600 From: "ibs4421" To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <009c01c19e3d$a13233a0$973dfad1@dwfjv01> . The > undersurface of the fuselage is covered in dark oil stains. These are > worst just around the cowling and go back down the fuselage. They > tend to get in the wing roots as well. I have been wondering about this. What color would this staining be? In real life is it that dark, or is it yet another case of the orthochromatic film turning something of a light or medium hue/tone dark? The box art on the Eduard F.1 shows Voss in what I assume to be his last dogfight being chased by an SE5. There is an abundance of what looks to be dark motor oil on the plane of the landing gear, and I assume this to be their lack of attention to detail. Warren ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:27:32 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: G'day Ray 'n All; Sooooo.....One could expect the average used rotary to appear to be covered in a clearish brown oily film then? with thinning stains down the fuselage but particularly heavy around the cowl cutouts and cowl then? Thinking about this, would a medium-dark brown stained future do the job for the engine? Could this also be used for the fuselage etc.? Also how much of this muck was regularly cleaned off? - I believe I've read somewhere that World War One aircraft were generally kept cleaner than their ot counterparts - what do people think?. (Aha...if they were cleaned off as asked above, the more intensively cleaned areas would display a fair amount of fading would'nt they? All the Best Neil E. Ray says: The undersurface of the fuselage is covered in dark oil stains. These are worst just around the cowling and go back down the fuselage. They tend to get in the wing roots as well. Which brings me to a point the cowling must get hot, now Caster goes a browny colour when its left on metal it forms a really stubborn coating. Take a look at any well used glow plug engine to see this. I wonder if the underside of some cowling would have had this happen. _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:28:21 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: <101115189201@smtp.vphos.net> Can't guarantee the colours will be the same as all the others as I have no aftermarket French stuff, hence the rudder stripes being included. Bob ---------- >From: "Matt Bittner" > > Okay, double the price, then. I have no problem paying it. > However, for me you do *not* have to include rudder stripes. I > prefer to paint those (assuming you make your roundel colors the > same as A/G, Blue Rider and Pegasus). Okay, speaking on the > French side... > > > Matt Bittner > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:32:37 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: <101115205401@smtp.vphos.net> So .. for French roundels do folks want separate blue centres to enable them to be used or replaced as need be. Bob ---------- >From: "Matt Bittner" > Now here *is* a use for the A/G roundels, as he has the blue > centers separate. Yes, it will be a lot more money, but since > the A/G red/white is a huge problem, there's nothing we can do at > the moment until we get decent French roundels. > > > Matt Bittner > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:36:07 +1100 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <008b01c19e3e$eee91c20$3b482dcb@nsw.bigpond.net.au> DH.2s in the Mid East clearly show the effects of oil being sprayed onto the tail plane surfaces. Being clear doped the discoloring is stands out. This is either from the oil soaking in and or dust that clings to the oil film. Looking at photos of the planes in the Mid East cant say they are cleaned much. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 2:28 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. | | | G'day Ray 'n All; | | Sooooo.....One could expect the average used rotary to appear to be covered | in a clearish brown oily film then? with thinning stains down the fuselage | but particularly heavy around the cowl cutouts and cowl then? | | Thinking about this, would a medium-dark brown stained future do the job | for the engine? Could this also be used for the fuselage etc.? | | Also how much of this muck was regularly cleaned off? - I believe I've read | somewhere that World War One aircraft were generally kept cleaner than | their ot counterparts - what do people think?. | | (Aha...if they were cleaned off as asked above, the more intensively | cleaned areas would display a fair amount of fading would'nt they? | | All the Best | | Neil E. | | | Ray says: | | The | undersurface of the fuselage is covered in dark oil stains. These are | worst just around the cowling and go back down the fuselage. They | tend to get in the wing roots as well. Which brings me to a point the | cowling must | get hot, now Caster goes a browny colour when its left on metal it | forms a really stubborn coating. Take a look at any well used glow | plug engine to see this. I wonder if the underside of some cowling | would have had this happen. | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________________________________________________ _____ | NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. | | Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. | | Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. | | If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au | ____________________________________________________________________________ _____ | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:33:10 -0800 From: Ray Boorman To: Subject: RE: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel att Message-ID: <20020116033617.JBFP14335.priv-edtnes15-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> Shane, On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:17:58 -0500 (EST), Shane Weier wrote: >RK says: > >> << Caster goes a browny colour when its left on metal it >> forms a really stubborn coating. >> >> >> The November WW I Aero has an article about getting the >> Shuttleworth SE5a's >> engine put into flying shape in the mid60s. The thing had >> been happily lazing >> away the decades with its innards still loaded with castor >> oil. It took six >> months of soaking in MEK to get this stuff loosened up. > >I wonder how the hell castor oil got into an inline engine, where it >has no >business whatever. > >Maybe someone used it to "protect" the engine. > >Shane > The oil would not be the same for a rotary as an inline. Rotaries are almost all two strokes so it couldnt be. But Caster was an additive in most engine oils of the period. In fact "Castrol R" is a caster based oil that had been in production for 90 years or so and its claim to fame is in its use for high performance racing engines. The Caster content has been reduced over the years but its still in there. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:39:01 -0600 From: "ibs4421" To: Subject: Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: <00b601c19e3f$571affc0$973dfad1@dwfjv01> That sounds good to me Bob, but I am in the situation of "beggars cannot be choosers". Warren ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:40:03 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: French Roundels - was: Re: Hello - Salmson decals Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:35:12 -0500 (EST), Bob Pearson wrote: > So .. for French roundels do folks want separate blue centres to enable them > to be used or replaced as need be. YES!! :-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:43:01 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDA45@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Neil, > Sooooo.....One could expect the average used rotary to appear > to be covered > in a clearish brown oily film then? with thinning stains down > the fuselage > but particularly heavy around the cowl cutouts and cowl then? Depends on the airflow. May be asymetric for example. > > Thinking about this, would a medium-dark brown stained future > do the job > for the engine? Could this also be used for the fuselage etc.? Yes, and yes. > > Also how much of this muck was regularly cleaned off? - I > believe I've read > somewhere that World War One aircraft were generally kept cleaner than > their ot counterparts - what do people think?. Fabric and dope are fairly fragile - the aircraft were almost invariably hangared at night and would be kept as clean as time and facilities would permit. To that end *very* dirty aircraft are a bit unusual, unless they're old stagers long in use, where the accumulation of hours of deposits and decay of the dope finish conspire to make matters worse. > (Aha...if they were cleaned off as asked above, the more intensively > cleaned areas would display a fair amount of fading would'nt they? Perhaps. Or the continual rubbing off would damage the dope and make the surface more porous - and prone to *darkening* All of this stuff varies widely. Really - this is a classic case for checking your references. And then doing what seems right to *you* Shane > ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:44:38 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDA46@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Ross, > Looking at photos of the planes in the Mid East cant say they > are cleaned much. Read Joe Bulls Diary. You could not be more wrong. *However* the conditions - dust and so on - made *keeping* things clean a near impossibility Shane > ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:47:06 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: castor oil, varnish of the gods wasRe: Re: Oberusel Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCDA47@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Ray says: > The oil would not be the same for a rotary as an inline. Rotaries are > almost all two strokes so it couldnt be. But Caster was an additive > in most engine oils of the period. In fact "Castrol R" is a caster > based oil that had been in production for 90 years or so and its > claim to fame is in its use for high performance racing engines. The > Caster content has been reduced over the years but its still in > there. Perhaps so. OTOH I betcha that if it were a Mercedes it wouldn't have castor oil in it. (because every drop of castor oil the Germans had was reserved for rotaries, which needed its higher qualities) Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. For general enquires: ++61 7 3833 8000 Support Centre e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au Support Centre phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:45:47 -0800 From: Ray Boorman To: Subject: Re: Oberusel attn: Neil E.............. Message-ID: <20020116034855.JJTJ14335.priv-edtnes15-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> On my old glow powered rc aircraft there would be dark grey brown streaks down the fuselage. It bloody awfull to clean off too. Since most glow engines are total loss and have a high castor content in the oil this might be close. You had to keep the airframe clean since Castor is extremely caustic on wood and fabric. In fact it was so bad they had to reformulate some of the dopes to stop the castor eating away at the dope and varnish. On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:28:40 -0500 (EST), Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au wrote: > > >G'day Ray 'n All; > >Sooooo.....One could expect the average used rotary to appear to be >covered >in a clearish brown oily film then? with thinning stains down the >fuselage >but particularly heavy around the cowl cutouts and cowl then? > >Thinking about this, would a medium-dark brown stained future do the >job >for the engine? Could this also be used for the fuselage etc.? > >Also how much of this muck was regularly cleaned off? - I believe >I've read >somewhere that World War One aircraft were generally kept cleaner >than >their ot counterparts - what do people think?. > >(Aha...if they were cleaned off as asked above, the more intensively >cleaned areas would display a fair amount of fading would'nt they? > >All the Best > >Neil E. > > >Ray says: > >The >undersurface of the fuselage is covered in dark oil stains. These are >worst just around the cowling and go back down the fuselage. They >tend to get in the wing roots as well. Which brings me to a point >the >cowling must >get hot, now Caster goes a browny colour when its left on metal it >forms a really stubborn coating. Take a look at any well used glow >plug engine to see this. I wonder if the underside of some cowling >would have had this happen. > > > > > > > > > >_____________________________________________________________________ >____________ >NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the >intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy >all copies immediately. 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