WWI Digest 3957 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: AEG G.IV & BM Bristol review by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mart=EDn_H=E9ctor_AFFLITTO_ECHAG=FCE?= 2) Volker's Downunder Adventure by "Neil Eddy" 3) RE: WWI Aero 40th Anniversery Issue, Caudron drawings by "Matt Bittner" 4) Re: Wise Guy Remark to Shane's 1/72nd Dr.I.. I cant see the snake Shane... by KarrArt@aol.com 5) re: eBay alert by Karen Rychlewski 6) Re: SV: Re: Gotha by Rory Goodwin 7) Albatros D.II Profipack Available at Squadron by Todd Hayes 8) RE: WWI Aero 40th Anniversery Issue, Caudron drawings by "Lee M." 9) RE: Volker's Downunder Adventure by Volker Haeusler 10) re: Wise Guy Remark to Shane's 1/72nd Dr.I.. I cant see the snake Shane .. by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 11) RE: Volker's Downunder Adventure by Shane Weier 12) Re: Wise Guy Remark to Shane's 1/72nd Dr.I.. I cant see the by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 13) AW: OT aircraft in the Austrailan War Memorial by MLawder@t-online.de (Martin Lawder) 14) Merlin by "Tony Mollica" 15) RE: Discovery: new WWI Fighter by "Diego Fernetti" 16) Cost of moulds and production by "cameron rile" 17) RVHP SVA10 by Paul Thompson 18) Re: mail problems by Allan Wright 19) JN4D Jenny kit by BEN8800@aol.com 20) Sopwith Dolphin by "ibs4421" 21) Re: Sopwith Dolphin by "ibs4421" 22) re: Sopwith Dolphin by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 23) Re: Sopwith Dolphin by "Matt Bittner" 24) New images by "Matt Bittner" 25) re: Sopwith Dolphin by "Pedro Soares" 26) Re: Sopwith Dolphin by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 27) re: Sopwith Dolphin by "Pedro Soares" 28) RE: Cost of moulds and production by Shane Weier 29) RE: Cost of moulds and production by KnnthS@aol.com 30) RE: Cost of moulds and production by Shane Weier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 10:42:10 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mart=EDn_H=E9ctor_AFFLITTO_ECHAG=FCE?= To: Subject: Re: AEG G.IV & BM Bristol review Message-ID: <014101c17fee$22ea29c0$f431e818@fibertel.com.ar> Dear Magnus: The Adress is De Hi-Tech/model B.P. 07 -18, Rue Fernand Collot - 77100 NANTEUIL - LES - MEAUX - FRANCE Tel: 33 (1) 64 33 53 82 Fax : 33 (1) 60 23 48 13 God look, and tell the list about the result!!!!!!!! :-) Martín H Afflitto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Magnus" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:30 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: AEG G.IV & BM Bristol review > Could you buy that kit (AEG) directly from High Tech? > Anybody has their adress? > > Magnus > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Martín Héctor AFFLITTO ECHAGüE > To: Multiple recipients of list > Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 12:58 AM > Subject: [WWI] Re: AEG G.IV & BM Bristol review > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 13:45:28 +1100 From: "Neil Eddy" To: Subject: Volker's Downunder Adventure Message-ID: <003f01c17f92$661e5060$b25032d2@mannock> Volker; I don't know if you are coming to Victoria at all but just outside of Melbourne at the Point Cook RAAF Base is the RAAF Museum. OT wise they mainly have replicas - Sopwith Pup, AVRO 504, sometimes a Fokker DR-1 but they have a reasonable collection of AFC memorabilia. Also not bad collection of ot aircraft. Photo opportunities can be arranged by appointment easy. Also Victoria's wineries are just as good as the SA wineries - oldest winery in Australia is near Seymour about an hour from Melbourne (No apologies for shameless Victorian tourist plug either!). All the Best Neil E. PS: Nice Fokker Shane (no Snake jokes) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:46:49 -0800 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: RE: WWI Aero 40th Anniversery Issue, Caudron drawings Message-ID: Can someone who has the issue provide me the details so I can order the 40th Anniv. issue, please? TIA! Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:59:04 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Wise Guy Remark to Shane's 1/72nd Dr.I.. I cant see the snake Shane... Message-ID: <128.8ebe8bd.2942dbf8@aol.com> In a message dated 12/7/01 12:29:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, halberstadtcl2@hotmail.com writes: << Has anyone ever discovered why we pick on Matt? Later! Brent >> It's easier than picking on Gloss? RK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 23:22:04 -0500 From: Karen Rychlewski To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: re: eBay alert Message-ID: <3C11956C.AA4EE343@earthlink.net> I stand humbled, but corrected. Dame Karen Grzegorz Mazurowski wrote: > > In addition to what Grzes noted, the book includes 16 full pages of > color > > profiles and many more pages of line drawings--all the color is > Polish > > planes, but the line drawings include all appropriate countries. > > Tiny correction - that's true that great majority of full-colour > profiles are Polish, but there are 6 Albatrosen in original AH > painting from Flik 3/j and 61/j (flown by Poles), one Italian > Ansaldo, 2 Czech and 3 US SPADs in full colour too. > And maaaaanyyyyy line drawings showing painting of planes from "all > appropriate countries", as Karen wrote, including such exotic schemes > like Russian SPAD, civil post-war D.III or Sweedish D.VII. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:38:27 -0800 From: Rory Goodwin To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: SV: Re: Gotha Message-ID: <3C119943.B411DE0D@earthlink.net> I've been studying the potential/options of the Aurora Gotha, and have reached the following conclusions: For and accurate model, the only useful parts may be the fuselage and some of the crew figures. Everything else is really wrong, from the overswept saw-toothed, decal-locator-marred wings, mishappen engine nacelles short ejector-pin cratered struts to the fat, small wheels, goofy props, bombs, engine cylinder banks and other fiddly bits. I think RK is probably right about it being easiest (in many ways) to convert it to a G.IV. However, this means at the very least ordering the resin nacelle parts from Eric (about $14 plus postage). I'm not seeing anyway around making or ordering new wings, but the CSM parts would require some modification as the G.IIIs lacked the lower ailerons. And so it goes... Magnus wrote: > How inaccurate are they? What I mean, is it possible to correct it, or > should I ruin myself with the one recently released in resin? Would make all > other purchases suffer terrible! :-) > > Magnus > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:40:15 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Albatros D.II Profipack Available at Squadron Message-ID: <20011208044015.13570.qmail@web11101.mail.yahoo.com> FYI, Squadron lists the new Profipack for $25.96. That price isn't too bad. Todd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 23:09:15 -0600 From: "Lee M." To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: WWI Aero 40th Anniversery Issue, Caudron drawings Message-ID: <3C11A07B.D315955E@x25.net> Matt, You might try 1-(845) 473-3679.They do not have an 800 number. World War I Aeroplanes Inc. 15 Crescent Road, Poughkeepsie, NY 12601. I do not have any other information about the groups magazine. There is no comment about it on their web site. Their site URL is not quite what most people expect it to be. www.aviation-history.com I do not know idf Wise Owl carries that publication. Lee M. New Braunfels. Tx Matt Bittner wrote: > Can someone who has the issue provide me the details so I can order the > 40th Anniv. issue, please? TIA! > > Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 04:42:40 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Volker's Downunder Adventure Message-ID: Neil, "I don't know if you are coming to Victoria at all but just outside of Melbourne at the Point Cook RAAF Base is the RAAF Museum. OT wise they mainly have replicas - Sopwith Pup, AVRO 504, sometimes a Fokker DR-1 but they have a reasonable collection of AFC memorabilia." Actually, I was at Point Cook in January - so I´ll spare it this time, even thopugh we´re going through Melbourne... I took the Farman at Point Cook for a real one, not a replica - was I wrong in that one? Whatever, superb job they did. The best however was the tour on the Walrus restoration (ot, but I love that aircraft), which was only marred by the fact that by brand new Japanes digital camera frefused to work due to a low battery - I had it recharged just hours before that one... "Also Victoria's wineries are just as good as the SA wineries - oldest winery in Australia is near Seymour about an hour from Melbourne (No apologies for shameless Victorian tourist plug either!)." Definitely so - we had a wonderful time in the Yarra valley, including a rather long afternoon in a winery that also served as a micro brewery, even serving some wheat beer - Just can´t hide my origin... Thanks for the tips, Volker ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:54:09 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: re: Wise Guy Remark to Shane's 1/72nd Dr.I.. I cant see the snake Shane .. Message-ID: <006101c17fbd$8544a720$0200a8c0@x.pl> ----- Original Message ----- From: Brent Theobald > Has anyone ever discovered why we pick on Matt? We pick on Matt? Never! G. :-) -- Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 18:45:49 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Volker's Downunder Adventure Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCD8A0@MIMHEXCH1> Volker says: > I took the Farman at Point Cook for a real one, not a replica > - was I wrong > in that one? Whatever, superb job they did. IIRC you are correct - while the other OT aircraft at NASMA Pt Cook are replicas, I *think* the Farman is one of the originals from the earliest AFC days. Point Cook was (until recently) the oldest continually operating military airfield in the world and the 1912 Deperdussin you may be able to see at the Treloar Centre was used in those earliest days. > The best however was the tour on > the Walrus restoration (ot, but I love that aircraft), which > was only marred > by the fact that by brand new Japanes digital camera frefused > to work due to > a low battery - I had it recharged just hours before that one... Take a proper camera too. The batteries last for years ;-) >> "Also Victoria's wineries are just as good as the SA wineries > Definitely so - we had a wonderful time in the Yarra valley, > including a > rather long afternoon in a winery that also served as a micro > brewery, even > serving some wheat beer - Just can´t hide my origin... I'll be very surprised if Volker gets back to Malaysia without *one* wheat beer hangover this trip. You may find the Barossa very much to your culinary liking. (I'm trying to remember if you came to Brisbane on your last trip via a winery tour of the Hunter Valley wineries north of Sydney. IIRC you did - is there a long term plan to drink us dry? If so you'll have a long trip next time to visit the Margaret River wineries in WA. And as a dedicated wine drinker I can tell you that *they* make some delicious drops too) Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 10:39:38 +0000 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Wise Guy Remark to Shane's 1/72nd Dr.I.. I cant see the Message-ID: >Hey Shane, ........."Too bad it's not French" (a comment I make to my wife in >other contexts), My wife is half French, luckily its the lower half... Great model, nice pix, inspiring stuff, (may even have a go at 1/72 myself now) N -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 12:45:23 +0100 From: MLawder@t-online.de (Martin Lawder) To: Subject: AW: OT aircraft in the Austrailan War Memorial Message-ID: Hi Volker, have a good time on your holidays, I´m also off to Oz in July/August, planning to go to Sydney,Canberra,Alice springs and Cairns. Could you do me a favour and öass on to me some of the info, i.e. addresses and emails of museums. I´m especially interested in visiting the Canberra AWM. Regards Martin Lawder -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]Im Auftrag von Volker Häusler Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Dezember 2001 02:15 An: Multiple recipients of list Betreff: [WWI] OT aircraft in the Austrailan War Memorial A question (maily) to our Aussie listees: I'm leaving on Monday for a trip to Oz, and this time (compared to my January trip - Shane will remember that) I'll have some more time and will also make it to Canberra and the AWM. Now I have 2 questions: 1. Are the OT aircraft on display this time. It seemed they were not accessible in January. 2. Does anybody know an address to contact in order to possibly get permission to access the aircraft nonetheless? 3. Especially: What's the status and condition of the Pfalz D XII at this moment? TIA Volker ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 12:26:50 From: "Tony Mollica" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Merlin Message-ID: I too have built a Merlin model. It was the Hawker Woodcock and it must have been a decade ago. It scarred me for life, I haven't touched a 1/72 model since. Cheers Tony _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 12:54:41 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Discovery: new WWI Fighter Message-ID: >From: Volker Haeusler >I´ve seen that aircraft as a fighter in a number of movies - so that guy is >right. Does it come with a bust of Ursula Andress? Even better: it brings two and a self adhesive towel! ;-) D. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 101 08:58:38 -0400 From: "cameron rile" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Cost of moulds and production Message-ID: <03D69F28C6B5F5643AC3F52F37BF8E5E@cameron.prontomail.com> Out of interest, and since this list has industry movers and shakers as well, what is the general cost of moulds for an injection or resin model in 1:72 or 1:48? When someone owns the moulds, how does it work out with the manufacturers? DO they pay a royalty or a flat fee to run off so many copies? How many kits have to be manufactured before a kit is no longer a short run? How many kits are manufactured in a run? Like the Eduard line? cam ______________________________________________________________ Get Your Free E-mail at http://www.prontomail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 16:05:58 +0100 From: Paul Thompson To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RVHP SVA10 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011208160229.00a77240@pop.xs4all.nl> Evening all, Has anyone any info on the RVHP 1/72 Ansaldo SVA 10 kit. or can point me to a review? I've just picked one up. There are no markings or cockpit pieces and I wondered if this is how it was produced (no instructions either). Any help welcomed! Paul. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 10:39:56 -0500 (EST) From: Allan Wright To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: mail problems Message-ID: <200112081539.KAA71469@mustang.sr.unh.edu> > Glad you're back. Allan > > From: Allan Wright > > > Someone tell Mark Miller, that altavista for some reason is bouncing list > > mail back when the list sends him mail. Altavista reports that the mail is > > being bounced by their 'spam filter'. > > I've noticed that I seem to get unsubbed a lot. :-( > Alta Vista mail sucks ! > > I also have an AOL account but couldn't figure out how to get it send text only mail. And I'm sure if I have to set it to text each time I send mail that I'll end up forgeting it sooner or later. > And then I'll have Lee after me ;-) > > I seem to remember someone asking about this AOL question a while back. Did we ever get a solution? > > Thanks Michael and Steve for sending this along > > Mark > > > Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! > http://www.shopping.altavista.com > =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | Without love life's just a long fight - Southside University of New Hampshire +-------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@wwi-models.org Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://www.wwi-models.org =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 11:36:46 EST From: BEN8800@aol.com To: wwi@mustang.sr.unh.edu Subject: JN4D Jenny kit Message-ID: <59.145a534a.29439b9e@aol.com> I have completed all work on the 1:16 Model Airways(Model Expo) structural kit of the Jenny. All laser cuts, castings, and photoetch work is done. A prototype model is currently being built by Bob Werner in Hollywood, Florida and completion is scheduled in February 2002. So, the kit should be on the market sometime thereafter. You should enjoy this kit. To pat myself on the back, I think it is far superior to the Albatros and Nieuport kits done in Italy for Model Airways. I did my best to include accurate detail. You will like building the OX-5 engine. These and all other castings are very good. Ben Lankford Vienna, VA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 12:49:36 -0600 From: "ibs4421" To: Subject: Sopwith Dolphin Message-ID: <003701c18019$160441c0$9b3dfad1@ibs4421> Just got the hot sheet from Hannants. They mention a 1/2nd scale Sopwith Dolphin in resin by Tomm, or Tom-M. Anyone familiar with this brand of kits? Warren ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 12:59:09 -0600 From: "ibs4421" To: Subject: Re: Sopwith Dolphin Message-ID: <004701c1801a$6bbdf240$9b3dfad1@ibs4421> Whoops! I meant 1/72nd scale. Warren ----- Original Message ----- From: "ibs4421" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 12:51 PM Subject: [WWI] Sopwith Dolphin > Just got the hot sheet from Hannants. They mention a 1/2nd scale Sopwith > Dolphin in resin by Tomm, or Tom-M. Anyone familiar with this brand of > kits? > > Warren > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 20:09:19 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: re: Sopwith Dolphin Message-ID: <001f01c1801b$da3ba9a0$0200a8c0@x.pl> Warren! Tom-M is Czech resin company. I've asked our list friend Ivo Gamba for it some day. He answered: "Tom-M Dolphin I didn't see this kit yet. I have only one Tom-M kit - UFAG C.I and it is IMHO very good except a little thick trailing edges and one really big air bubble in the leading edge of upper wing. If I should compare Tom-M with other Czech resin manufactures (OT only) I give them following ranking from the best to the worst: 1-2. Omega, RVHP 3. Tom-M 4. HR model See following IM issues for in-box reviews of Tom-M kits: BE12a - http://www.internetmodeler.com/1999/nov99/first-looks/tomm_be12.htm Vickers FB-5 - http://www.internetmodeler.com/1999/nov99/first-looks/tomm_fb5.htm Fokker D.VI - http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/feb2000/first-looks/tomm_fokkerd6 .htm UFAG C.I - http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/feb2000/first-looks/tomm_ufag.htm Grzegorz -- Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 13:12:30 -0800 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: Sopwith Dolphin Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 13:51:09 -0500 (EST), ibs4421 wrote: > Just got the hot sheet from Hannants. They mention a 1/72nd scale Sopwith > Dolphin in resin by Tomm, or Tom-M. Anyone familiar with this brand of > kits? Wasn't that just reviewed in either the Nov. or Dec. IM? Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 13:15:06 -0800 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: New images Message-ID: First I must apologise to everyone who has sent me images the past week or so. My ISP gave me a new dial-up number, which usually means a new server, and Allan has to add by hand the servers he wants to give access to for the FTP (file transfer protocol). It took us awhile, but I now have access back to the site. The first images I just uploaded are a number from Shane on the "real" SE5a at the Australian War Memorial museum. Matt Bittner WW1 Site Assistant Editor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:18:23 -0000 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: re: Sopwith Dolphin Message-ID: <001301c1801d$1aaf7d80$0f7316d5@netcabo.pt> .. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Grzegorz Mazurowski > To: Multiple recipients of list > Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 7:11 PM > Subject: [WWI] re: Sopwith Dolphin > > > UFAG C.I - > > http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/feb2000/first-looks/tomm_ufag.htm > > > > Grzegorz > > > > I've built this one. Check http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/apr2000/aviation/ufag.htm Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 20:22:15 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: Re: Sopwith Dolphin Message-ID: <003101c1801d$aaa791c0$0200a8c0@x.pl> > Wasn't that just reviewed in either the Nov. or Dec. IM? > Matt Bittner Sure! http://www.internetmodeler.com/2001/november/first-looks/TomM_Dolphin .htm I've forgotten... G. -- Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 20:10:17 -0000 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: re: Sopwith Dolphin Message-ID: <005401c18024$5b434dc0$0f7316d5@netcabo.pt> > > Fokker D.VI - > > http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/feb2000/first-looks/tomm_fokkerd6 > > .htm Oh, I forgot. Matt did a great job with this one: http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/aug2000/aviation/fratz.htm Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 07:16:35 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Cost of moulds and production Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCD8A1@MIMHEXCH1> Cam asks: > Out of interest, and since this list has > industry movers and shakers as well, what is > the general cost of moulds for an injection or > resin model in 1:72 or 1:48? When someone owns > the moulds, how does it work out with the > manufacturers? DO they pay a royalty or a flat > fee to run off so many copies? A mould for a traditional mainstream injection kits will cost anything from $50k to $250k depending on the complexity, the type and where it's made. A *lot* of the "where it's made" factor has been removed these days since a high proportion of companies now have toolmakers at only a small number of companies cut their moulds (for example some Korean toolmakers work for US companies as well as Japanese ones). By "type" I mean that some moulds are the steel type - suited to fater and longer production runs, and others of softer metals which can also produce fine details but will tend to have a shorter production life before they wear out. In these days I suspect that few tools will ever really be required to make the sort of runs necessary to make steel tools obigatory > > How many kits have to be manufactured before a > kit is no longer a short run? It's not the number made, but how that determines this. One of each is enough. However, the short run kit will use low pressure injection moulding which will need thick sprues, large attachment points and thick parts (both so the flowing styrene will fill the cavity properly under low pressure), and limited surface detail. They're made using moulds of relatively soft material, like the harder versions of rubber mould making material used to produce the moulds for resin models. The moulds cost in the low thousands, sometimes less. The length of the run is determined by how long it takes the hot styrene to wear out the mould. Maybe something as low as hundred kits, could be a few thousand. I'd *guess* that some makers would make multiple moulds from the masters to allow for wear and breaks, which explains the range of "short" runs. > How many kits are > manufactured in a run? Like the Eduard line? Your guess is as good as mine. A lot more than Chris Gannon makes. A lot less than Tamiya. As to one person owning the moulds and another "running off copies" - well, this is a bit complicated. Even some of the big manufacturers wouldn't actually do the injection moulding. The machines cost millions and it's likely that they go to a company that specialises in injection moulding and say "I want a contract for you to mould x thousand of this mould using this polystyrene product specification" Then the guy trips down the road to the printer and says "print x of this instruction sheet ands this box", across to the decal manufacturer and arranges x decal sheets, and finally home to arrange quality control and packaging when the bits all arrive. I guess the point is that the amount paid to run off copies will depend heavily on who is doing them (in house/external) and the production run (***high*** setup costs before the injection machine is able to make even *one* kit) As to resin kits, I know a lot more about that than I do about injection production, but we have at least a couple of guys here who do it for a crust. Let them tell y ou :-) Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 17:56:09 EST From: KnnthS@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Cost of moulds and production Message-ID: In a message dated 8/12/01 1:18:27 pm, sdw@qld.mim.com.au writes: << I know a lot more about that than I do about injection production, but we have at least a couple of guys here who do it >> Thanks for the info, Shane--a comprehensive answer for a lot of us that wanted to know. I knew it was expensive, but not *how* expensive. It makes requesting a particular aircraft version or kit coverage a bit more than "pass the potatoes"... It also makes me more grateful for the limited-run efforts that are avail., like Chris Gannon's, etc. Also: Hooray, Eduard. thanks! Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:19:14 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Cost of moulds and production Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCD8A2@MIMHEXCH1> Ken says: > It also makes me more grateful for the limited-run efforts > that are avail., > like Chris Gannon's, etc. Also: Hooray, Eduard. I can second that emotion... FWIW for all the badmouthing that Eduard gets for th equality of their earlier kits, we should remember that they were made using limited run techniques, and judged as limited run kits they're damned fine efforts. What's more, they probably proved the business case for Eduard to go more upscale and take the financial risk with their "LTM" long run technology which is giving us Tamiya quality WW1 kits at (by modern standards) really excellent prices. Mind you, when you think of the cost of setup, it becomes more obvious why they're dubious about producing more two seaters, given a marginally more expensive mould *but* the fear that "Ace addicted" modellers won't buy enough of these less well known machines to balance the budget. However, for the life of me, I'm damned if I know why they haven't got a SPAD VII in their range yet. Maybe they're at the mercy of their pattern makers. I imagine that pattern making is done by independant people paid as contractors, not by an internal staff, since the scale of Eduard operations doesn't appear to me large enough to support a very large work force of the Tamiya / Hasegawa type. That means that to some extent, they can commission a particular subject, but only if someone out there is keen enough to make a pattern of that subject to their standards. I'd love to know more about their operation. Maybe one of the European members can expand on the bit I gleaned a year or two back through an article in SAM. I think that it'd do us all good to get a firm grip on reality when we wonder why they haven't yet kitted our favourite aircraft (Me, I'm wondering where my fantasised Eduard DH-4/9a series got to....) Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3957 **********************