WWI Digest 3880 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Sidna cont'd: by Rory Goodwin 2) Re: Sidna cont'd: by Rory Goodwin 3) the RE: Re: Berthold was: RE: Stories WAS: pfalz by "Gaston Graf" 4) Re: pfalz by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 5) Re: Berthold was: RE: Stories WAS: pfalz by "Diego Fernetti" 6) RE: Boelcke in Argentina by "Diego Fernetti" 7) RE: Model Photos by "John J. Ernst" 8) Re: veedays kits by "Hans Trauner" 9) RE: Model Photos/again by "Tom Plesha" 10) =?big5?Q?=A6p=AAG=B1z=A6=B3=BB=DD=ADn=A5~=C4y=A4k=A6=FE=3F?= by ¤pªL 11) Italian Nie.17 colour by daniele silvestri 12) OT kits on ebay by "Sandy Adam" 13) Re: Berthold was: RE: Stories WAS: pfalz by "Rick Milas" 14) RE: Boelcke in Argentina by "Gaston Graf" 15) RE: Model Photos by Mark Miller 16) Roseplanes Kits by Todd Hayes 17) Re: Roseplanes Kits by "Matt Bittner" 18) Re: lozenge by "Tom Solinski" 19) 11th November - Polonia Restituta! by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 20) Re: Roseplanes Kits by "Michael Kendix" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 21:53:21 -0800 From: Rory Goodwin To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Sidna cont'd: Message-ID: <3BECC0D1.5713B1A7@earthlink.net> Disclaimer: The condition of the Paschendaele set (which has been claimed, along with the Classicplanes AEG) has nothing to do with its manufacture and everything to do with improper storage in my non-climate controlled garage. John's kits are lovely, as everyone who has one knows. Rory Goodwin wrote: > Also: > > Paschendaele Alb. D.II conversion (slight warp to upper wing and decals > a bit crinkly, no instructions.) $5 > Renwal 1/72 Aero-Skin Alb. D.V (aero-skin a bit shredded) > Classicplanes AEG G.IV vac kit $8 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 23:16:22 -0800 From: Rory Goodwin To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Sidna cont'd: Message-ID: <3BECD446.93E1EFCD@earthlink.net> This might be it- boxed unfinished Guillows Nie. 11 leftovers, including plans & other paperwork, decals (white rudder stripe applied to completed and painted rudder) all plastic parts except pilot (trimmed cowl, completed and painted engine, wheels, trimmed rubber-powered prop), varnished struts and scratchbuilt wooden Lewis gun, tissue remnants. With the exception of the rudder, all other airframe parts perished in a flaming crash in the fireplace. Remaining scrap balsa may be enough to complete half of another plane. All this for $5 > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:36:30 +0100 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: the RE: Re: Berthold was: RE: Stories WAS: pfalz Message-ID: This story shows that we should never forget that the true face of WW1 was much different from what for some reason still many people - who do not possess our knowledge - tend to believe. Not only life in the trenches was pure horror, also in the air it was. Not only the ground hogs was concerned, but also the pilots. As I now study my Boelcke books to inlcude as much additional information as possible in the translation of his censored field reports, I come to more little details that are interesting. For instance, there is a mentionning of people who's nerves had been worn to frazzle, people who was not able to fly for more than two hours anymore because the inner tension about gettin involved in a fight they might not return from was simply eating up their souls... Albeit the book from Anton Lübke "Boelcke - der Meisterflieger" (1935) sounds a bit heroic in the typical spirit of its time, it let's one read between the lines what was really going on. He wrote about anybody else having a nervous breakdown - anybody else but the great Boelcke. But also Boelcke was only human and he too suffered under the constant tension and the loss of his comrades. The loss of Immelmann had hurt him very badly and also the envy of others about the great unity between him and his brother Wilhelm really gave him a hard time. It was even harder for him to get separated from his brother to restore peace in the unit. Most frustrating for the pilots was when they could not fly due to bad weather. They knew what was going on on the front and where they could help in the fight, but had to stay on the ground, which was making them nervous so tensions between the people arose. And off course other famous characters of WW1 aviation was concerned, like Manfred von Richthofen who once said that one becomes brutalized very quickly, not to forget about the significant changes of his personality after he got WIA. The above mentionned book also contains a few funny stories about Boelcke though. I was amazed to read that he had another dog with the name "Wolf", who got KIA as he ran into the prop of Boelcke's AC. Another strange story got written by the Brits who said about him having jobbed in the US as a lift boy in a skyscraper before the war and therefore he wanted to become a pilot (???) - the story sounds like being printed by the "Sun" - LOL. Boelcke never was to the US but he met US journalists for an interview before the USA entered the war and was amused about the lift boy story. He told them that he wants to definetly visit the US after the war was over... Sometimes I wonder what would have been if Boelcke and/or MVR would have survived WW1... maybe they would have united with Udet in their resistance against the Nazis, or maybe not... Maybe the Krauts would have won the BoB with MvR instead of their incapable Goering...? Luckly for us, they only had a Goering... Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of Rory > Goodwin > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 6:01 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Re: Berthold was: RE: Stories WAS: pfalz > > > Not wanting to sustain an inflammatory ot thread, but I believe > Hans' acccount > of Berthold is acccurate. Too bad he flew such a good looking > planes. I seem > to remember hearing something on this list years ago about Rudy > and his squad > emptying their weapons into an (unarmed ?) crowd and then attempting to > surrender...hence the beating rather than shooting or > strangulation. IIRC, the > noble warrior's death myth was perpetuated in one of the Profile > pubs on either > the Pfalz D.III or Fokker D.VII. > > Apologies for the lurid details; thread concluded. > > Hans Trauner wrote: > > > Diego, > > you wrote: > > they stare at Bethold's machine and say "nice > > airplane" "yes, he flew with many wounds during the war -you answer- but > > communists choked him to death with his own condecoration shortly after" > > > > Berthold was a pure pre-nazi. He was active in various > Freikorps and he was > > *not* strangled with his PLM by communist. He was not the > innocent war hero > > killed by evil communists. This is a myth and nazi propaganda. > He was beaten > > to death, that's true. He was not murdered by rioters (as written in the > > 'other' forum), he himself was the rioter. He died in March 1920, that's > > over a year *after* the 'revolution' in Berlin and the > fightings between > > the german Red Army and the Reichswehr. He was one of the > activest member of > > those fundamentalistic nationalistic terror commands which > still wanted the > > Kaiser back. This 'white' terror from 1919 /1920 was more cruel than the > > 'german version' of a rveolution in Januar 1919 plus the spring riots in > > Bavaria. > > > > Hans > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 13:12:46 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: Re: pfalz Message-ID: <007701c169e1$02d11720$0200a8c0@x.pl> Volker wrote: > Seems to be a classical case of pilot misidentification to me. It reminds me another (and bigger) OT pilot misidentifiacation. For a long time there was popular in Poland a photo of Kosciuszko squadron Oeffag D.III, with very clearly visible squadron sign with stars and stripes, and with posing pilot. In many books and articles that pilot was identified as Elliot Chess, designer of the sign. But his uniform was strange looking (especially cap, french-like, but light coloured). Finally it turned out that it is Romanian uniform, and pilot is Romanian officer visiting unit... (Volker, thanks for Jeannin info!) Grzegorz _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:25:55 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Berthold was: RE: Stories WAS: pfalz Message-ID: Hans! >Berthold was a pure pre-nazi. -snip- This 'white' terror from 1919 /1920 >was more cruel than the >'german version' of a rveolution in Januar 1919 plus the spring riots in >Bavaria. I agree! Last year we heard a conference where a short bio of Berthold was described. By no means I try to elevate him to a "hero" status and I also have read about his freikorps activities. However I did believed that he was strangled with his BM, after all. Even so, it looked like an act of poetic justice, after all. My point was that for the uninformed, the fancy flight schemes may appear as a cartoon war, but the men and the war that they fought were as horrible and mean as other wars. It comes like sort of a shock, after looking at a plane painted like a big silly fish, for instance. D. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:27:09 +0000 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Boelcke in Argentina Message-ID: Gaston! I know that some Boelckes lived in Venezuela in the 70s. D. >From: "Gaston Graf" >Reply-To: wwi@wwi-models.org >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WWI] RE: Boelcke in Argentina >Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 18:11:21 -0500 (EST) > > > Gasterix! > > Where else would I have read that if not in your pages! However, there's >a > > lot of german protestants here in Argentina (at least in Rosario there's > > still two different congregations but in the past there were some > > more) and > > I guess that's unfair from us to have old Martín driving around all >Buenos > > Aires without more specific data. > > Two blocks from here there's one of the churches from the german > > evangelists, I can ask them to find out if there's any archives > > that we can > > check from here. > > a presto! > > D. > >Sounds good to me - VERY gooooooood ;o)! One of his descendants still lives >in....ooops... "somewhere" in South-America. The father of his grand-niece >told me that the man is his brother and still owns OB's cussion of >decorations. I MUST see to get in touch with the family and meet them in >Frankfurt where they live. They have spend a longer time in South-America >as >well. > >good luck! > > Gaston Graf >(ggraf@vo.lu) >Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: >http://www.jastaboelcke.de > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:31:11 -0500 From: "John J. Ernst" To: "WWI Digest" Subject: RE: Model Photos Message-ID: Hello All, In case anyone is interested, a friend of mine in the UK has posted some of my stick and tissue models on his web site. Unfortunately, there is only one WWI plane at the moment. Here's the link: http://www.thestuarts.freeserve.co.uk/jernst.htm Also, there are alot of good photos of other WWI flying models and such on the site. john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 15:04:03 +0100 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: veedays kits Message-ID: <000901c169f0$8dceeaa0$fe78a8c0@FRITZweb> > If you'll look at my page on the modeling pages you will see a Veeday Fokker > D-VIII built almost straight out of the box with the excption of using a > revell engine, cowl and prop. This was one of VeeDay's later better kits!! > > HTH > > Tom Solinski Tom, not to be nitpicking, just for the sake of the history of plastic kits: The Fokker was after the Dragon Rapide the second kit... Hans ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:11:14 -0500 From: "Tom Plesha" To: Subject: RE: Model Photos/again Message-ID: <001d01c169f1$8eefce80$2cfdfa18@mcmb1.mi.home.com> Hi John- Being an old "stick & tissue modeler from way back-thats all there was, GREAT WORK!!!!!!! Later Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "John J. Ernst" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 8:33 AM Subject: [WWI] RE: Model Photos > Hello All, > > In case anyone is interested, a friend of mine in the UK has posted some of > my stick and tissue models on his web site. Unfortunately, there is only one > WWI plane at the moment. > Here's the link: http://www.thestuarts.freeserve.co.uk/jernst.htm > > Also, there are alot of good photos of other WWI flying models and such on > the site. > > john > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:49:57 -0500 (EST) From: ¤pªL To: 2 Subject: =?big5?Q?=A6p=AAG=B1z=A6=B3=BB=DD=ADn=A5~=C4y=A4k=A6=FE=3F?= Message-ID: <70AhtZ9WJ@pchome.com.tw> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_ckIASldp7SlQCR0l9zbPck1ITBs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_ckIASldp7SlQCR0l9zbPck1ITBsAA" ------=_NextPart_ckIASldp7SlQCR0l9zbPck1ITBsAA Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6dj0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTp2bWwiDQp4bWxuczpvPSJ1 cm46c2NoZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOm9mZmljZTpvZmZpY2UiDQp4bWxuczp3PSJ1cm46c2No ZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOm9mZmljZTp3b3JkIg0KeG1sbnM9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cudzMub3Jn 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Gray? dirty white? alu.? my colours drawing is not a chatterbox... ;) regards daniele ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 15:55:44 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WWI Modelling List" Subject: OT kits on ebay Message-ID: <001001c16a00$29efa500$2ae8b094@sandyada> Thanks to Brent and others who suggested I should add PayPal to my current Eduard, Aurora and Blue Max etc auctions on ebay just now. I have just signed up for this service so can accept credit card payments if anybody wants to bid on an Aurora DH4 or a Blue Max FokkerDr1 etc..... (My ebay moniker is "macsporran" - oh they close in 24hrs by the way) Thanks Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:59:56 -0600 From: "Rick Milas" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Berthold was: RE: Stories WAS: pfalz Message-ID: I'm sorry to here all of this. I'm kind of a romantic and thought Berthold was a pretty nice guy who merely fought for his country. After all, this is what the literature I've read up to now has seemed to indicate. Also, he sure looks like a nice guy in his pictures. I guess I'll hve to face reality and re-evaluate my thoughts on this matter. Thanks for the info. Rick Milas (now crushed by the weight of reality) >Berthold was a pure pre-nazi. He was active in various Freikorps and he was >*not* strangled with his PLM by communist. He was not the innocent war hero >killed by evil communists. This is a myth and nazi propaganda. He was >beaten >to death, that's true. He was not murdered by rioters (as written in the >'other' forum), he himself was the rioter. He died in March 1920, that's >over a year *after* the 'revolution' in Berlin and the fightings between >the german Red Army and the Reichswehr. He was one of the activest member >of >those fundamentalistic nationalistic terror commands which still wanted the >Kaiser back. This 'white' terror from 1919 /1920 was more cruel than the >'german version' of a rveolution in Januar 1919 plus the spring riots in >Bavaria. > >Hans > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 18:35:41 +0100 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: RE: Boelcke in Argentina Message-ID: Now that you mention Venezuela I remember that the man mentionned his brother lives in Caracas... GG > > Gaston! > I know that some Boelckes lived in Venezuela in the 70s. > D. > > > > > > Gasterix! > > > Where else would I have read that if not in your pages! > However, there's > >a > > > lot of german protestants here in Argentina (at least in > Rosario there's > > > still two different congregations but in the past there were some > > > more) and > > > I guess that's unfair from us to have old Martín driving around all > >Buenos > > > Aires without more specific data. > > > Two blocks from here there's one of the churches from the german > > > evangelists, I can ask them to find out if there's any archives > > > that we can > > > check from here. > > > a presto! > > > D. > > > >Sounds good to me - VERY gooooooood ;o)! One of his descendants > still lives > >in....ooops... "somewhere" in South-America. The father of his > grand-niece > >told me that the man is his brother and still owns OB's cussion of > >decorations. I MUST see to get in touch with the family and meet them in > >Frankfurt where they live. They have spend a longer time in > South-America > >as > >well. > > > >good luck! > > > > Gaston Graf > >(ggraf@vo.lu) > >Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: > >http://www.jastaboelcke.de > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 2001 11:24:56 -0800 From: Mark Miller To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Model Photos Message-ID: <20011110192456.29477.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> John Thanks for the link - nice work :-) I looked through several pages at that site and was amazed at the realism of some of those models. And it would appear that they fly at close to scale speeds - must be an impressive sight. I wonder if there are any events like this in my area? (Connecticut, USA) Most of my modeling in this area was done when I was considerably younger, and I never had much succsess when it came to actualy flying the things. And the heartache of crashing a detailed model was too much to bear. But maybe I should give it another try. Would be a good project to do with my kids I think I have an old Aeronca kit somewhere which shouldn't be too difficult to make airworthy. Mark On Sat, 10 November 2001, "John J. Ernst" wrote: > > Hello All, > > In case anyone is interested, a friend of mine in the UK has posted some of > my stick and tissue models on his web site. Unfortunately, there is only one > WWI plane at the moment. > Here's the link: http://www.thestuarts.freeserve.co.uk/jernst.htm > > Also, there are alot of good photos of other WWI flying models and such on > the site. > > john Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:24:19 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Roseplanes Kits Message-ID: <20011110222419.65595.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi List, I thought a post from a while ago mentioned some planned kits from Roseplanes in 1:48. Does anyone know about these or was I hallucinating? Todd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:28:40 -0800 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: Roseplanes Kits Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:27:27 -0500 (EST), Todd Hayes wrote: > I thought a post from a while ago mentioned some > planned kits from Roseplanes in 1:48. Does anyone > know about these or was I hallucinating? The only Balloon Jobs I know of from Barry is the F.I conversion. Otherwise he would be beaten about the head and neck with a wet noodle by us Builders of the Proper Scale, 1/72nd. :-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:46:27 -0600 From: "Tom Solinski" To: Subject: Re: lozenge Message-ID: <001001c16a39$8866c080$a6a20d41@Solinski.okcnc1.ok.home.com> Pedro and all, I have a CD from Airizona Modelworks with patterns for both upper and lower four color. I use the same method outlined below to get the loz on the tissue, works great Tom S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pedro Soares" To: ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:13:59 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: "wwi lista" Subject: 11th November - Polonia Restituta! Message-ID: <016001c16a3d$61d6c920$0200a8c0@x.pl> Hi! Today we have big Holiday in Poland, our Independence day! So some Polish OT paintings: Charge of Polish Legion cavalry in Rokitna 1915: http://www.pinakoteka.zascianek.pl/Kossak_W/Images/Rokitna.jpg 11th November in Warsaw, disarming Germans: http://www.malarstwohistoryczne.px.pl/stanislaw_bagienski.htm Polish 'Wedding with Sea' in 1918, in front general Jozef Haller, before Bolshevik revolution commander of Polish Corps fighting under Imperial Russian command (they had aviation unit, using SPAD VIIs, and even one Ilya Muromiets), after revolution Polish Corps was evacuated to France, where became so called 'Blue Army', returned to Poland in 1919 with big air force, Escadrilles: Bre. 39, 59 and 66, Sal. 580, 581 and 582, and Spa 162. http://www.pinakoteka.zascianek.pl/Kossak_W/Images/Zaslubiny_z_morzem .jpg Polish 'Orleta' ('Young Eagles') defending Lwow against Ukrainians in 1918-19 winter (my great-grandfather was fighting there, at age of 16!): http://www.pinakoteka.zascianek.pl/Kossak_W/Images/Orleta.jpg Polish charge in 1920: http://www.pinakoteka.zascianek.pl/Kossak_W/Images/Szarza_ulanow.jpg 1920 episode: http://webart.omikron.com.pl/paint/authors/KOSS_JE/KossJe2.JPG Jozef Pi³sudski, Commander in Chief and Head of Polish resurrected state, during WWI Kommendant of Polish Legions fighting under KuK command against Russia: http://www.pinakoteka.zascianek.pl/Kossak_W/Images/Pilsudski.jpg and on his favorite mare, 'Kasztanka' (Chestnut) during Polish-Bolshevik 1919-20 war: http://www.pinakoteka.zascianek.pl/Kossak_W/Images/Na_Kasztance.jpg General apoteosis of victorious Polish Army in 1920, note various OT uniforms, French, German Russian, AH and others (officer standing on brown horse is Jozef Pilsudski): http://www.pinakoteka.zascianek.pl/Kossak_W/Images/Apoteoza_WP.jpg _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:15:21 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Roseplanes Kits Message-ID: >From: Todd Hayes >I thought a post from a while ago mentioned some >planned kits from Roseplanes in 1:48. Does anyone >know about these or was I hallucinating? The latter! He has other more pressing issues, I hope:). Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3880 **********************