WWI Digest 3847 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: OT national stereotypes by Crawford Neil 2) Re: Pegasus Poll by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 3) RE: OT national stereotypes by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 4) RE: OT national stereotypes by "Diego Fernetti" 5) RE: OT national stereotypes by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 6) RE: OT national stereotypes by Crawford Neil 7) RE: OT national stereotypes by "Diego Fernetti" 8) RE: OT national stereotypes by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 9) RE: OT national stereotypes by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 10) Re: Return from leave by xtv16@dial.pipex.com 11) RE: Above Flanders's Fields by xtv16@dial.pipex.com 12) Re: Gaston's return by "Dale Sebring" 13) RE: OT national stereotypes by Mark Miller 14) Re: Farmans by Volker Haeusler 15) Re: Farmans by "Michael Kendix" 16) RE: OT national stereotypes by Volker Haeusler 17) RE: OT national stereotypes by Crawford Neil 18) Re: interior lozenge for D.VIII? by Volker Haeusler 19) I'm back by John_Impenna@hyperion.com 20) And more Luedemann news... by Volker Haeusler 21) Re: Farmans by Volker Haeusler 22) Jim Landon's Salmpson by Allan Wright 23) RE: Odp: Re: interior lozenge for D.VIII? by "Graham Hunter" 24) Re: Return from leave by "fraser" 25) Re: Retry retry Jasta 6 paint qn. by "Lance Krieg" 26) Re: Return from leave by Crawford Neil 27) Re: SE5a's of Rhys-Davids by "Lance Krieg" 28) RE: Above Flanders's Fields by KarrArt@aol.com 29) Re: Pegasus Poll by "Brent Theobald" 30) RE: OT national stereotypes by Volker Haeusler 31) RE: I'm back by Crawford Neil 32) Ex-works Early Fok. D.VII Finish? by "StefenK" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:24:38 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: I'd say you are walking into danger, national stereotypes are tricky things. But fwiw Hispano-Suiza engines weren't famous for being precise, but they were neither Swiss or Spanish. They were french, so obviously light and sophisticated! /Neil C. > -----Original Message----- > From: Grzegorz Mazurowski [mailto:grzem@yahoo.com] > Sent: den 29 oktober 2001 13:15 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] RE: OT national stereotypes > > > > What's true, is that prussians were regarded as the "hard core" > elite of the > > german army. > > Sure. > And what are others (serious) OT stereotypes about nations? > (stereotypes related to people, but to constructions too!) > It was said in one of Polish OT books that in OT engines one can > clearly see national differencies: French rotary are light and > sofisticated, and German inlines are solid and strong, but heavy. > Swiss are precise (was HS engine precise?) > Also Italians and Russians tend to make really big things, and Brits > very ugly or very beauty, nothing between. > G. > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:35:39 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: Re: Pegasus Poll Message-ID: <010201c16076$380d7ce0$0200a8c0@x.pl> Michael! > I agree, it would be preferable for Eduard to make "everything" but it is > not going to happen. I just wish Eduard and Roden would do a bit more > on the Allied stuff I agree with you, but SPAD is so popular plane that Eduard can make it. G. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:40:20 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: <010801c16076$df925080$0200a8c0@x.pl> > I'd say you are walking into danger, I like it :-) > But fwiw Hispano-Suiza engines weren't famous for being > precise, but they were neither Swiss or Spanish. > They were french, so obviously light and sophisticated! But Marc Birkigt, their designer, was Swiss. And AFAIK HS engines were designed in Barcelona and first 50 were built there. G. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:46:03 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: <004401c16077$ab8242e0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> I'll avoid talking about stereotypes, as per definition, they're innacurate and can hurt people. I'd better talk about engines, and engines characteristics... IMHO, internal combustion engines were still on a development era during WW1. They advanced greatly during those 4 years, and differences amongst them were related to the technical possibilities of every nation. Rotaries were copied in every country, but the results weren't the same in every manufacturer. Each machine depended greatly on the tooling and the operators that made such engines, even if the designs were similar. AFAIK, the Hispano Suiza engines had many troubles at first. D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Grzegorz Mazurowski To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 9:14 AM Subject: [WWI] RE: OT national stereotypes > > What's true, is that prussians were regarded as the "hard core" > elite of the > > german army. > > Sure. > And what are others (serious) OT stereotypes about nations? > (stereotypes related to people, but to constructions too!) > It was said in one of Polish OT books that in OT engines one can > clearly see national differencies: French rotary are light and > sofisticated, and German inlines are solid and strong, but heavy. > Swiss are precise (was HS engine precise?) > Also Italians and Russians tend to make really big things, and Brits > very ugly or very beauty, nothing between. > G. > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:56:16 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: <012401c16079$19cd9fa0$0200a8c0@x.pl> > I'll avoid talking about stereotypes, as per definition, they're innacurate > and can hurt people. OK, let's replace 'stereotype' with 'national tendencies in doing OT constructions' G. BTW, best inlines were Austrian, weren't? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:57:07 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: No that was the Rolls-Royce Eagle! /NeilC. > -----Original Message----- > From: Grzegorz Mazurowski [mailto:grzem@yahoo.com] > Sent: den 29 oktober 2001 13:55 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] RE: OT national stereotypes > > > > > > I'll avoid talking about stereotypes, as per definition, they're > innacurate > > and can hurt people. > OK, let's replace 'stereotype' with 'national tendencies in doing OT > constructions' > G. > BTW, best inlines were Austrian, weren't? > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:06:38 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: <005001c1607a$8ba7ef80$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> > BTW, best inlines were Austrian, weren't? So I've read, the Austro Daimlers had that funny "thingie" (sorry I don't know the word in english) over the cylinder heads that's different from the usual MErcedes approach to the inline engines. IIRC the SPA italian engines had the same cover over the cylinder banks. D. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:06:54 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: <012e01c1607a$95ed0660$0200a8c0@x.pl> > > BTW, best inlines were Austrian, weren't? > No that was the Rolls-Royce Eagle! > /NeilC. OK. but Eagle was big and heavy? G. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:15:12 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: <013801c1607b$bea1c040$0200a8c0@x.pl> > So I've read, the Austro Daimlers had that funny "thingie" (sorry I don't > know the word in english) over the cylinder heads that's different from the > usual MErcedes approach to the inline engines. IIRC the SPA italian engines > had the same cover over the cylinder banks. Yes, also Austro-Daimlers had another 'thingie' (roll that moved valves) on front, not rear of engine. G. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:24:39 +0000 From: xtv16@dial.pipex.com To: Subject: Re: Return from leave Message-ID: <1004361879.3bdd589753540@netmail.pipex.net> Quoting fraser : > Despite the appaling lighting in the Science Museum I got some useable > engine shots, they've got a lot. Nearly Ģ8 to get in now though. ow. > Worst aviation gallery I've been in. If you just want to see the aircraft, the trick is to go after 4pm, when entry is free. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:28:18 +0000 From: xtv16@dial.pipex.com To: Subject: RE: Above Flanders's Fields Message-ID: <1004362098.3bdd5972ac58f@netmail.pipex.net> Quoting Crawford Neil : > Agree with you here D, except I'm not sure he is living > in England, I think (not at all sure) that he lives in Malta. > There is certainly a connection to Malta, and it is often > easy to see by the subject choices in SAMI. > /Neil C. > Neil is correct. Richard Caruna also used to publish Modelaid magazine, fanous for it's cut and fold colour cockpit placards. Don't know if they did any OT though Dave F ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:54:44 -0700 From: "Dale Sebring" To: Subject: Re: Gaston's return Message-ID: <005501c16081$44cfc7c0$99a58dd0@main> > Welcome back, you horrid barbarian from a mid-european country! > D. What D said.........;-) Good to hear from you! Dale ------------------------------ Date: 29 Oct 2001 05:59:00 -0800 From: Mark Miller To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: <20011029135900.16920.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> On Mon, 29 October 2001, Crawford Neil wrote: > > I'd say you are walking into danger, national stereotypes are tricky things. Agreed - especialy on an international list such as this. But This brings to mind an argument I had in college - years ago. I was arguing with a girl - my stance was that use of steriotypes was a universal characteristic of human beings. Has something to do with the way our brains are wired. As you can imagine I was dimissed as some kind of lunatic. (remember- this was college) So I shut up and waited. about 15 minutes later the conversation had meandered to the subject of drive in funeral parlors. Somebody said that it was predominant in California - to which she repied - "figures those Californians are nuts" GOTHCHA!! oh that was sweet :-) Point is everybody uses steriotypes, I don't think you can help it. Important thing is to not let it skew your receptivnes to people. Mark Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:03:23 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Farmans Message-ID: Just came back from a (comparatively) lengthy trip to Europe (and hey, Diego, Iīm also living on a holiday island, and Iīm not even an artist...), and found out that 2 more Farmans are in the pipeline: Luedemann will issue a Farman F 7 and a Farman HF 20. Both resin in 72 scale, the F 7 for 32,95 DM and the the HF 20 for 29,95 DM (thatīs around 14 and 13 US $ respectively - should be the cheapest one in town, and given the quality of the "Luedemaenner", definitely not the worst. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:13:41 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Farmans Message-ID: >From: Volker Haeusler > >Luedemann will issue a Farman F 7 and a Farman HF 20. Both resin in 72 >scale, the F 7 for 32,95 DM and the the HF 20 for 29,95 DM (thatīs >around >14 and 13 US $ respectively - should be the cheapest one in >town, and >given the quality of the "Luedemaenner", definitely not the >worst. Volker: Is there a web site for this producer and contact details? My apologies if this has already been posted. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:58:45 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: On the discussion of the best inline engine it was just said that: > > BTW, best inlines were Austrian, weren't? > No that was the Rolls-Royce Eagle! > /NeilC. OK. but Eagle was big and heavy? G. Actually, the Eagla had a weight/power ration *far* superior to the German and AH inline engines - but strangely all sources and photos and descriptions I have indicate it is actually a 12 cyl V engine - and therefore no inline... As for the question which was the best inline engine, Iīd asay it might be quite close. AH engines were in general more powerful, but also heavier than the German or also Italian counterparts (eg, the Daimler D IIIa did weigh 268 kg and produced 180 hp, the Austro Daimler AD 6 (thatīs the 200 hp engine of the 153 serieas Alb D III (Oeff) et all) produced 200 hp, but weighed a staggereing 310 kg - more than the Rolls Royce Eagle, IIRC. And all that must be seen in relation tio the (roughly) 180 to 190 kg 180 hp early HS or the 220 kg (sometimes even less, depending on the manufacturer) late version (225 hp) HS... Volker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:41:20 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: Sorry forgot the Eagle was a V12, wasn't the RR Falcon half an Eagle, so an inline six. In which case that would make it the best inline? Probably screwing up again! /Neil C. PS. Wasn't the 185hp BMW engine the best German/AH engine? > -----Original Message----- > From: Volker Haeusler [mailto:haeusler@tm.net.my] > Sent: den 29 oktober 2001 15:27 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] RE: OT national stereotypes > > > On the discussion of the best inline engine it was just said that: > > > > BTW, best inlines were Austrian, weren't? > > > No that was the Rolls-Royce Eagle! > > /NeilC. > OK. but Eagle was big and heavy? > G. > > > Actually, the Eagla had a weight/power ration *far* superior > to the German > and AH inline engines - but strangely all sources and photos and > descriptions I have indicate it is actually a 12 cyl V engine - and > therefore no inline... > > As for the question which was the best inline engine, Iīd > asay it might be > quite close. AH engines were in general more powerful, but > also heavier than > the German or also Italian counterparts (eg, the Daimler D > IIIa did weigh > 268 kg and produced 180 hp, the Austro Daimler AD 6 (thatīs the 200 hp > engine of the 153 serieas Alb D III (Oeff) et all) produced > 200 hp, but > weighed a staggereing 310 kg - more than the Rolls Royce Eagle, IIRC. > > And all that must be seen in relation tio the (roughly) 180 > to 190 kg 180 hp > early HS or the 220 kg (sometimes even less, depending on the > manufacturer) > late version (225 hp) HS... > > Volker > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:40:10 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: interior lozenge for D.VIII? Message-ID: As I only today resubscribed, this might be a hint that somebody else mentioned before: I have done for a number of years interior lozenge *in paper form*. I scanned the lozenge I liked best (that was usually the Pegasus one, but I recently also did my own 5 color version based on the Silberstreif colors), then used a graphics program (originally the one coming with the scanner, but more recently Photoshop) to mirror the image, adapted the colors (for some faded look) and printed the resulting image with a standard inkjet or laser printer (whichever one I had access to at that time). Using glossy paper, the results are quite good. I cut out the pieces I need and attach them with diluted white glue. That looks quite convincing, is cheap and easy. And I have not yet seen any fading - but then I keep my models in a cabinet behind glass, where they are not subject to too much sunlight... Volker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:01:53 -0500 From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: I'm back Message-ID: Hi Folks, I've resubscribed after an extended absence. First off, let me thank all of those folks who sent very kind messages when I unsubbed last month...I was very, very surprised by the number and type of responses....I FINALLY got to spend some time at the modeling bench this weekend!!!!! WOOHOO!!!! It has been a crazy month and a half here...We spent many days in NYC, some at the disaster site and sadly, a few at funerals and memorial services, but things are returning to the "new normal". It was SO GRATIFYING to actually work on a model again!!!!!! I actually think I am going to finish this marathon of a project..Six months on a 1/72 scale Albatros D.III has to be some kind of a record!!!!!! I'm still collecting the Tips folks had been sending....PLEASE continue....I plan to got thru the archives over the next few weeks to see if there was anything I missed......Is Dave Burke still subscribed???? I tried emailing him and haven't heard back...By the way, the Pegasus Gunbus is a beaut!!! May be his best yet..... Regards, John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:24:06 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: And more Luedemann news... Message-ID: As already said in my last mail, I just returned from a business trip to Europe today (mainly Germany and Austria). Saturday I had a chance to drive to Essen. One great, but ot thing was the W. Turner exhibition in the Folkwang museum - one of the best exhibitions I have ever seen (but then Iīm a Turner fan). As fate would have it, Essen also houses Detlef Schorschīs Modellbaustudio (hint for those who need to convince their wives for the trip to the area!), and I could see (and buy some of) the latest Luedemann resins. The latest addition to the list include (all in resin, all in proper 72 scale): Macchi M 9 Halberstadt Cl IV Albatros (Phoenix) B I Lohner B VII (my favorite - and this time I am responsible for the issue, as my scratch build one had itīs lower wing fixed just before the trip...) Lohner B I Pfeilfluegel Most of the kits are of the more basic version, like the Lloyd Flugzeugjaeger I showed in the IM - still with nice details and superb wings, but not with all the incredible detailing of Thomas Luedemannīs Tauben. The Halberstadt is maybe somewhat less detailed than the Ardpol version, but also quite cheap at only around US $ 13.... This brings total availability of the Luedmann kits to 35 diifferent examples. But more is to follow (before the end of the year, I was told): Halberstadt Cl II Albatros D II (strange choice with so many alternatives already available...) Nieuport 24 Albatros C UI Aviatik C III (german Aviatik) Oesterr. Aviatik B II Oeffag "H" (we had that one already...) Farman F 7 Farman HF 20 Knoller C II (thatīs the AH multirole "superplane" that turned into an absymal failure, with one example still in Pragueīs National Technical Museum) Brandenburg B I Lohner AA 10.20 (Austriaīs "Flea") Lohner B VI Lohner L flying boat (maybe the most interesting aircraft on the list) These included, I think Luedemann will soon offer the widest range of OT kits available - just 10 months after doing his first kit... And there is one more to come, but that one deserves itīs own mail... Volker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:53:49 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Cc: mkendix@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Farmans Message-ID: Michael, The Luedemann resins are (at least officially) only available through the Modellbaustudio Rhein-Ruhr (thatīs Detlef Schorsch, who did the Classic Plane vacs before). His address, as Matt would say, is ... guess where? But before you look on the site, check directly at: http://www.classic-plane-mrr.de/Catalog/catalog-1/catalog-1.html Volker -----Original Message----- From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of Michael Kendix Sent: 29 October 2001 22:16 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] Re: Farmans >From: Volker Haeusler > >Luedemann will issue a Farman F 7 and a Farman HF 20. Both resin in 72 >scale, the F 7 for 32,95 DM and the the HF 20 for 29,95 DM (thatīs >around >14 and 13 US $ respectively - should be the cheapest one in >town, and >given the quality of the "Luedemaenner", definitely not the >worst. Volker: Is there a web site for this producer and contact details? My apologies if this has already been posted. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:25:34 -0500 (EST) From: Allan Wright To: wwi Subject: Jim Landon's Salmpson Message-ID: <200110291525.KAA14858@mustang.sr.unh.edu> I've posted 3 new photos to Jim's Gallery. http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Landon/Salmson/index.html You all know how nice these are. Check them out! Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | Without love life's just a long fight - Southside University of New Hampshire +-------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@wwi-models.org Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://www.wwi-models.org =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:30:31 -0600 From: "Graham Hunter" To: Subject: RE: Odp: Re: interior lozenge for D.VIII? Message-ID: <000801c1608e$a5abb240$fa0101c0@grahamh> The Techmod lozenge has a white backing so it can not be used in reverse... Graham ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:10:07 +0100 From: "fraser" To: Subject: Re: Return from leave Message-ID: <00b601c1608f$3ddbf660$7cdd7ac3@fraserinprague> Du-oooh, now he tells me...sigh...My total museum entry bill was nearly 28 quid, but pretty much worth it. Fraser ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 2:27 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Return from leave > > Quoting fraser : > > > Despite the appaling lighting in the Science Museum I got some useable > > engine shots, they've got a lot. Nearly Ģ8 to get in now though. ow. > > > > Worst aviation gallery I've been in. If you just want to see the aircraft, the > trick is to go after 4pm, when entry is free. > > Dave > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:41:56 -0600 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: Retry retry Jasta 6 paint qn. Message-ID: Sanjeev wants: "... a photograph showing the nose underside..." In the Albatros Special "Flying Circus" are two photos on page 22 that show this clearly. The stripes are NOT angled, but connect straight across the bottom to the corresponding stripe on the other side. The effect, when looking at the bottom of the plane, is exactly like the Allied invasion stripes of 1944. HTH Lance ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:46:00 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Return from leave Message-ID: The rest of the Science museum is so good that it took me all day just getting up to the aviation gallery. Did you see all those lovely ship-models? I think I've read Harry Woodman quoting them as an inspiration, he said they were beautifully weathered, can't remember myself, but they were extremely good. /Neil C. > -----Original Message----- > From: fraser [mailto:fraserinprague@volny.cz] > Sent: den 29 oktober 2001 16:35 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Re: Return from leave > > > Du-oooh, now he tells me...sigh...My total museum entry bill > was nearly 28 > quid, but pretty much worth it. > Fraser > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:47:25 -0600 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: SE5a's of Rhys-Davids Message-ID: Mike was chasing this down, and everything I found has already been stated, except: On page 190 of "High in the Empty Blue" is a photo of a crashed SE5a, strongly suspected to be Rhys-Davis. Besides the unfortunate pilot, lifeless in the wreckage, the noteworthy feature is the blue/white quartered B flight wheel markings. Not much to go on for all but a very speculative model... Lance ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:56:50 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Above Flanders's Fields Message-ID: <6c.122ac097.290ed642@aol.com> In a message dated 10/29/01 2:59:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, bpearson@rapidnet.net writes: << Regarding the Gentilli/Varriale book, although they wanted me to be the artist on it for the English version, the publisher decided to go with some fellow named Caruana, so I am no longer involved with it. >> ACCKKKchokeUNCKSTTLDS!!!! Caruana over you? They must have eight nostrils and be snorting some kind of goat dust. RK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:03:49 +0000 From: "Brent Theobald" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Pegasus Poll Message-ID: Howdy Gang! I guess I will continue being a non-conformist. >From Pegasus I requested a Sopwith Triplane to replace the hard to find Revell kit. >From Blue Max I requested a Junkers J.I. You know, the really big biplane, not the corrugated monoplane. That will be a pretty big model eh? >From the ot Silver Cloud I requested a Martin Baker MB5. Because that was such a cool aircraft. Later! (Or if I was Inglish... Latre!) Brent _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:32:05 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: OT national stereotypes Message-ID: Neil asked: "Sorry forgot the Eagle was a V12, wasn't the RR Falcon half an Eagle, so an inline six. In which case that would make it the best inline? Probably screwing up again! /Neil C. PS. Wasn't the 185hp BMW engine the best German/AH engine?" > Actually, both the Falcon and the Eagle are 12 cyl V engines - the Falcon being something like a "Eagle Light". Both were quite powerful for their size, and in general (given the power/weight ratio and their reliability) most probably the best WW I aero engines, with the HSīs somewhat spoiled by their questionable reliability record. And I also think the BMW IIIa might be the best production German/AH engine (for the record, it developed 220 hp out of a 287 kg weight (even though nominally a 185 hp engine, compared to 320 kg for the same output of the 225 hp AH Daimler. BTW, there is a superb book on WW I engine in general: Gilles, A.J.: "Flugmotoren 1914-1918", Frankfurt 1971 (but the book was actually written before WW II, IIRC - only never published). Strong on (German only) text, very good technical analysis of that stuff.. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:10:22 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: I'm back Message-ID: Great John, welcome back Only six months on a Alb DIII, just about finished the interior then? /Neil C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:55:04 -0500 From: "StefenK" To: "WWI Modeling List" Subject: Ex-works Early Fok. D.VII Finish? Message-ID: <3BD497800014264F@mail.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) Good morning, all-- A variety of sources--primary and secondary--present a confilicting picture of the ex-works finish for early Fokker D.VII's. Here, I include all brush-painted machines, including those with 4-color lozenge main planes. The photographic evidence available to me in S/S 166 and Albatros DF 9 is limited--most photos of course being of operational machines repainted in unit or personal colors--but suggestive. --Per typical Fokker practice, prototype machines V.9 and 11/1 are CDL with bare metal cowlings and dark (olive?) struts and axle wing (p. 6 S/S, p. 2, DF 9). --V.11/2 (p. 3, DF) retains CDL wheel covers and unpainted engine panels but is now brush painted with light-colored interplane struts. --In two views of what may be the same unserialed early (pre?)production machine (p. 9 S/S, p. 4 DF), perhaps V.11 or 18, the finish is as V.11/2 above. --Machine 353/18 also retains the V.11/2 scheme, but with two small detail differences: the landing gear struts and wheel covers are light gray--perhaps underside blue--the tonality of which appears match that of the interplane struts. (The finish is of further interest for the retention of the olive wings, as printed fabric appears as early as serial 244/18.) --Airframe 507/18 p. 11 S/S), a fully covered in printed favric, nonetheless appears to retain natural metal engine panes, as suggested by the tonal difference compared with the interplane struts. Secondary sources, however, are at odds with these photos. RLR's caption (p. 28) to his rear cover profile of an early brush-painted machine in the DF states "Undersurfaces are light turquoise...Forward fuselage metal panels and struts in pale grey," although the color choices are a little ambiguous with respect to the use of gray and turquoise. Dan-San Abbott, in a private communication, is also adamant about the use of pale (greenish) gray on struts and metal areas. Nonetheless, early D.VII finishes certainly seem, to me at least, to bear significant commonalities with those of Dr. I's, and at least those photographs referred to above suggest that at least some machines were delivered with unpainted forward metal areas, olive center section struts, and light interplane struts whose color identity may be in doubt. Was there an Idflieg order that would have changed the use of underside blue on strut work from the turquoise of triplanes to the pale gray of the biplane? Citation of additional reference photographs bearing on this question will be appreciated. TIA and VBR to all, Stefen ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3847 **********************