WWI Digest 3832 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Spelling error. by "Shannon Mark" 2) Re: The kit Voisin LAS by =?iso-8859-1?B?TWFydO1uIEjpY3RvciBBRkZMSVRUTyBFQ0hBR/xF?= 3) Re: The kit Voisin LAS by =?iso-8859-1?B?TWFydO1uIEjpY3RvciBBRkZMSVRUTyBFQ0hBR/xF?= 4) Re: german rib tapes by Shane Weier 5) Star of David Albatros by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 6) Re: german rib tapes by "Steven Perry" 7) Re: german rib tapes by Shane Weier 8) Re: The kit Voisin LAS by Todd Hayes 9) =?big5?Q?=B6U=B4=DA=A7K=A8D=A4H!=A7=D6=B3t=A4S=A6w=A4=DF!=B0=EA=C0=E7=BB=C8=A6=E6=B3=CC=A5i=BEa!?= by boufes@kimo.com.tw 10) Re: Model Photos for Gallery by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 11) Re: Spelling error. by Witold Kozakiewicz 12) RE: show report by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 13) Re: scanners was Re: Cookups by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 14) Re: german rib tapes by Witold Kozakiewicz 15) Re: Star of David Albatros by "Matt Bittner" 16) re: Hobby Shops in the Quad Cities RE: New kits - Tanks! by "Diego Fernetti" 17) Re: Formaplane by "Diego Fernetti" 18) RE: Back in the Saddle by "Diego Fernetti" 19) Re: Model Photos for Gallery by "Diego Fernetti" 20) Re: Model Photos for Gallery by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 21) Re: Model Photos for Gallery by "Diego Fernetti" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 21:59:39 -0500 From: "Shannon Mark" To: Subject: Re: Spelling error. Message-ID: <004301c15d01$16a447a0$661efea9@maincomp> If you look closely at the Indian Head marking of the Lafayette Escadrille, you will see that the bangles at his temples are circles with the swastika on them ( or at least, the one side you can see on each side, and since the marking was handed....) One of the U.S. squadrons in the 'tween wars period incorporated a black circular shield with a golden brown edge and swastika centered in the squadron badge. I don't recall which one. .Mark. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee M." To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 6:11 PM Subject: [WWI] Spelling error. > Please note: > > Hans Trauner has advised me that the correct spelling for the swastika > in German is "Hakenkreuz" or hooked cross. > > I am glad to report that it is in the German Language dictionary when it > is spelled correctly. > > Thank you Hans, I could have gone through the rest of my life spelling > it wrong. > > It was still be found in virtually every country north of the equator as > well as a goodly number to the south. It is not a German emblem except > for a few brief years in the history of mankind. > > Many planes had it in WW I. Some of them were American and British. I > do not recall seeing any photos of French planes with the marking. But > I haven't seen all the photos yet. > > Lee M. > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:03:34 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?TWFydO1uIEjpY3RvciBBRkZMSVRUTyBFQ0hBR/xF?= To: Subject: Re: The kit Voisin LAS Message-ID: <008f01c15c9d$0e171860$b70de818@fibertel.com.ar> I was born before the II vatican council,therefore I endured the latin masses in Latin. Obviously I didn't learn Latin;but I have good dictionaries. Therefore I haven't guessed. Caveat emptor is the principle that buyers must take responsibility for the quality of goods that they are buying. It was a good exercise. Cordially :))) Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance Krieg To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 6:48 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: The kit Voisin LAS > Martin crows: > > " ergu sum!!!!!!!!!!!!" > > Well, here's some more Latin for you: > > "Caveat emptor" > > If you get it, I'll be standing in line to turn over my money, too, so good luck! > > Lance > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:13:34 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?TWFydO1uIEjpY3RvciBBRkZMSVRUTyBFQ0hBR/xF?= To: Subject: Re: The kit Voisin LAS Message-ID: <00c001c15c9e$72ccd820$b70de818@fibertel.com.ar> Do you have a URL or e-mail address for Scale Models from Russia? YES!!! TODD I sent by contact@hobbym.net I recived by sales@hobbym.net URL: http://www.hobbym.net/ good luck Martín ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd Hayes To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 10:42 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: The kit Voisin LAS > Martin, > > Do you have a URL or e-mail address for Scale Models > from Russia? > > Todd > > > > --- Martin_Héctor_AFFLITTO_ECHAGüE > wrote: > > Hi folks!!!!!!! > > > > The kit Voisin LAS MCL006 is available from the > > shoping? > > > > >From the Voisin LAS the Scale Models From Russia > > answered!!!!!!!!! > > > > ...""Dear Martin. > > The kit can be found in a week or two. > > It costs about $60""" > > > > Sincerely, > > Andrey Prozorovskiy. > > > > > > ergu sum!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:36:07 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: german rib tapes Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCD6A2@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Mark says: > But why, then, the > popularity of the cut lozenge fabric tape that is matched to the > surrounding? IS it? > > >From what I can tell, it appears the SSW, Fokker, and OAW > works, and at times the Albatros, seem to have used this style. Pfalz too. > > Would it have been such a sin to the camouflage it these > tapes were also > wrapped around so that the underside tapes were actually > upperside fabric? Of course not. However, I *can* (sorta) tell blue tapes from pink or loz tapes by how light the blue one. OTOH I can't tell upper loz from lower loz by the same strategem and the narrow strips are too small to determine whether there's a difference in colour from the surrounding loz - at least by me. ie - I'm sure enough for my own purposes about the pink/blue tapes but can only surmise that it may also be true with loz Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:24:02 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Star of David Albatros Message-ID: G'day Mark Thanks for the comments re the finish of the Albatros, I just used one of the common techniques discussed on The List, - Gunze Sail Colour base, Burnt Umber water colour wash, and Gunze Clear Yellow topcoat x 3-4. In relation to the star of david, I haven't been able to find any references to it at all apart from the photo of the Jasta 12 line up that was on the Albatros Cook up site. You can just see it in the background there. When I started the build I asked the List whether the pilot was known plus any other details about the aircraft but it seemed that there was little information to be had. Therefore I just when with the kit decals. I can try to look back through my haphazard files and see who posted the photograph (for some reason I think it was Matt) and then see if they can post it again somewhere else. If you have any other info on the aircraft's markings or pilot I would like to know as the mystery of not knowing has got me a bit intrigued. All the best Neil E. _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:32:09 -0400 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: german rib tapes Message-ID: <00b001c15d16$64482d40$61e82341@tampabay.rr.com> There is a difference between a model wing with a chord of an inch or two and a real wing with a chord of 5 or 6 feet. IIRC from my EAA days (any EAAers please correct me) we had the wing panel set on saw horses. I was there when they did the rib stiching and one guy was standing and another crawled under the panel. Between the two of them they worked the needle. I missed the session where they taped the ribs, but the sheer awkardness of flipping a panel in order to use one tape top and bottom wrapped around the LE led, I believe, to doing top and bottom tapes seperately, hence the need for LE & TE tapes. I will drag out the EAA books I have and check for sure. I do recall for sure that the wing cover was a pre-sewn dacron "sock" that was slipped over the wing. Much fuss & bother getting the LE seam straight during the shrinking process which was done with a hot iron. Does anyone know if OT construction methods using linnen were similar, or did they cover one side at a time? sp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:52:13 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: german rib tapes Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCD6A5@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> SP, > I missed the session where they taped the ribs, but the sheer > awkardness of > flipping a panel in order to use one tape top and bottom > wrapped around the > LE led, I believe, to doing top and bottom tapes seperately, > hence the need for LE & TE tapes. Theres also the small matter of the join in fabric at the LE which needs to be strengthened. In any case, have you seen the photo of Dr.1 wings being painted? They sit on edge on a stand. It occurs to me that such a method would make it easy to toss a roll of tape over the top so it drapes down both sides. Remember that no-one is stitching at this point, the tape is doped *over* the already completed stitches to strengthen the fabric and reduce drag. Then all you do is dope along the line of stitches, toss over the tape, pull down on both sides and dope over top of the tap. Snip the end of the tape, move along one rib and repeat (until end of war) >I will drag out the EAA books I have and > check for sure. Don't know about EAA, but IIRC David's (ot alert) Auster has tapes that go around the LE. > Does anyone > know if OT construction methods using linnen were similar, or > did they cover one side at a time? Well the fabric was shrunk by applying the dope, but otherwise I don't know. However the fabric must have been stitched before doping, which suggests that it need be pretty tight before stitching to ensure even application between each rib. FWIW. Mostly moderately informed speculation though ! Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:27:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: The kit Voisin LAS Message-ID: <20011025062726.31713.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Martin, I have the Master Club Sikorskii S.16 kits. They are probably the most finely cast resin kits I have. You can get those from www.aviapress.com but not the Voisin. Todd --- Martín Héctor AFFLITTO ECHAGüE wrote: > Do you have a URL or e-mail address for Scale Models > from Russia? > > YES!!! TODD > > I sent by > contact@hobbym.net > > I recived by > > sales@hobbym.net > > URL: > http://www.hobbym.net/ > good luck > > Martín > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Todd Hayes > To: Multiple recipients of list > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 10:42 PM > Subject: [WWI] Re: The kit Voisin LAS > > > > Martin, > > > > Do you have a URL or e-mail address for Scale > Models > > from Russia? > > > > Todd > > > > > > > > --- Martin_Héctor_AFFLITTO_ECHAGüE > > wrote: > > > Hi folks!!!!!!! > > > > > > The kit Voisin LAS MCL006 is available from the > > > shoping? > > > > > > >From the Voisin LAS the Scale Models From > Russia > > > answered!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > ...""Dear Martin. > > > The kit can be found in a week or two. > > > It costs about $60""" > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Andrey Prozorovskiy. > > > > > > > > > ergu sum!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > > http://personals.yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! 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The SMER SE5a is Okay (remember the camera can hide a lot of things...well a few anyway) but the BM will be a lot better I hope Neil E. (hoping to start the Triplane soon after the housework is done!) WOW Neil, I love your SMER SE5a.. Can't wait to see the BM one you are working on. :) Cheers Ross | http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Eddy/index.html | _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:10:51 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Spelling error. Message-ID: <3BD7C90B.4060805@bg.am.lodz.pl> Matt Bittner wrote: > On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:01:36 -0400 (EDT), Bob Pearson wrote: > > >>Lufbery's SPAD VII at Spa.126 had it >> > > Spa.124 And I'm going to build it. I have A/G decals for it and BM kit. Lots of fun :-) -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:59:49 +0000 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: show report Message-ID: This is absolutely fair comment. I have some experience of judging in another field over the past 30+ years, and would make the following observations: 1) Judging is nearly always voluntary and unpaid, and it is therefore difficult to demand a professional standard. 2) The real crux is about positive or negative judging. If you are trying to promote the activity AND encourage the participants, you emphasise the good points and play down the errors. This requires real in-depth knowledge of the subject on your part, and the confidence to put it over, and persuade the mass that this is the way to judge. On the other hand, if you are unpaid, and stressed, with too many entries to handle fairly, it is far easier to find the faults, and thus instead of works winning because of their positive points, works are rejected because of their errors. I know this is a generalisation, and that there are many conscientious judges who try hard to avoid these pitfalls, but as long as you have a hobby that is to a large extent driven by competition success, it is inevitable that these things will occur. I know more than a few who saw this at Euro Militaire, but that's another story. The real solution is to behave like real grown ups, and forget competitions! Exhibit your work instead, and share ideas and praise, instead of bitching about the judges. Do away with them, there should be no place for salons in this day and age. BE POSITIVE Oh yes, I show my models just to show them. I'm not good enough to win anything, and I know it. I enjoy the showing. If I got into competition, I would end up with all the ulcers and burst blood vessels. I do this for FUN! Just a thought (or five). N ... nearly all of us on this >list know about mistakes! I just feel that too much emphasis is put >on finding them, and too little into looking at what really constitutes a >good model. -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:08:39 +0000 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: scanners was Re: Cookups Message-ID: Main problem is that D+P colour paper has excessive contrast AND saturation. If you go to a pro lab and pay real money, they use professional paper which has entirely different characteristics. N >agreed about "bozos" in photo labs - I've gotten some photos back >from 1 hour labs which was ridiculous. >I think it was bad chemistry though. -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:23:36 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: german rib tapes Message-ID: <3BD7CC08.6030207@bg.am.lodz.pl> Thanks you all So many answers, very interesting thread. I'm working on Ardpol Halb. CL.IV as you know and I put lower 5-colour lozenge. today I 'm going to put upper. Thanks to Dame Karen I know that mine had blue rib tapes but I was not sure if only blue, or blue and pink. Now I see that more probably (and easier :-)) is only blue. Techmod decals I use has no rib tapes so I have to make my own. Thin stripes cut of painted decal is very good idea - thanks Michael. French roundel colour seems quite interesting, Humbrol 25 with little 65 should be good. Or I will try Pactra french blue... Next lozenge project will be Eduard Pfalz D.IIIa Profi - Bethge's plane with white/silbergrau stipes. The best advice i got is "Dicta Ira" :-) Thanks -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 04:20:47 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: Star of David Albatros Message-ID: <200110250919.f9P9J6n26533@falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 00:26:34 -0400 (EDT), Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au wrote: > I can try to look back through my haphazard files and see who posted the > photograph (for some reason I think it was Matt) and then see if they can > post it again somewhere else. If you have any other info on the aircraft's > markings or pilot I would like to know as the mystery of not knowing has > got me a bit intrigued. Yea, probably on my sprintmail site, for my still not finished Albatros cook-up project ... Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:14:29 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: re: Hobby Shops in the Quad Cities RE: New kits - Tanks! Message-ID: <00f301c15d3d$d590a820$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Glen wrote: > I like MVR and Majors, but mostly because they order stuff and they treat me > right when I go in. I feel sort of like Norm from the Cheers show. I couldn't help but seeing in the TV screen on my mind a guy walking on a dimly lighted hobby shop and all the customers and the clerk yelling "Gleeennn!" as you walked in. D. Join the WW1 modelling list, where everybody knows your scale. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:38:31 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: Re: Formaplane Message-ID: <01d901c15d41$31337d80$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Michael, Grzes The explanation for the grooves in the rib locations is on the molding technology: these are female molds and more detailed than "male" moulding, but if the blank styrene isn't hot enough, the plastic would "crack" along the smallest and crisper parts of the female mold, resulting in those annoying grooves along the ribs. D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Kendix To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 2:54 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Formaplane > Grzegorz: > > I have the FE2, Caudron G-4. They both have indentations for the upper > surface ribs. Why they did that, I have no idea since they'll have to be > filled in and rib material glued on. Realistically, they have little chance > of being built. > > Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:52:37 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: RE: Back in the Saddle Message-ID: <01f601c15d43$29997780$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> To me is a great new, Lance! Keep on that Felixstowe! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance Krieg To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:28 PM Subject: [WWI] Back in the Saddle > After a six month hiatus, I'm back to modeling this evening. > > Now where did I put that Felixstowe wing? > > I'm so excited, I had to tell someone, and my wife seemed pretty indifferent when she got the news. > > Thanks for listening. > > Lance > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:55:32 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: Re: Model Photos for Gallery Message-ID: <020c01c15d43$91514920$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Well done, Neil! You certainly improved on every model you built! Your Nieuport 17 looks better than mine.. mumble mumble mumble.... :-/ D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Allan Wright To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 4:27 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Model Photos for Gallery > Whoops! That's only part of it - your MAIN gallery is here: > > http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Eddy/index.html > > Thanks again, > Al > > > Neil, > > > > Thanks for your contribution to the website. Your image gallery is > > here: > > > > http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Eddy/CP/index.html > > > > Nice models! > > Al > > ============================================================================ === > Allan Wright Jr. | Without love life's just a long fight - Southside > University of New Hampshire +-------------------------------------------------- > Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@wwi-models.org > Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://www.wwi-models.org > ============================================================================ === > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:59:58 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: Re: Model Photos for Gallery Message-ID: <00ec01c15d44$31274120$0200a8c0@x.pl> Diego! I'm amazed! It looks like you can be nice sometimes ;-) G. > Well done, Neil! You certainly improved on every model you built! > Your Nieuport 17 looks better than mine.. mumble mumble mumble.... :-> D. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:07:44 -0300 From: "Diego Fernetti" To: Subject: Re: Model Photos for Gallery Message-ID: <025201c15d45$45bfaa40$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Nice sometimes But always cute! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Grzegorz Mazurowski To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 7:59 AM Subject: [WWI] Re: Model Photos for Gallery > Diego! > I'm amazed! > It looks like you can be nice sometimes ;-) > G. > > Well done, Neil! You certainly improved on every model you built! > > Your Nieuport 17 looks better than mine.. mumble mumble mumble.... > :-> D. > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3832 **********************