WWI Digest 3818 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: New 1/35th Mk.V by "Ross Moorhouse" 2) Belgian Roundals was [Re: collection planning by "cameron rile" 3) New Delta Decals by "Matt Bittner" 4) Belgian Aircraft Markings by Todd Hayes 5) RE: Cookups by "Bob Pearson" 6) RE: Caporetto by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 7) RE: Caporetto by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 8) RE: Cookups by "Ross Moorhouse" 9) Re: EE S. 16 by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 10) RE: Cookups by "Steven Perry" 11) Re: Caporetto by "Alberto Casirati" 12) Re: Fat balkenkreuze by Shane Weier 13) Re: Fat balkenkreuze by "diaphus" 14) Re: EE S. 16 by "Matt Bittner" 15) Re: EE S. 16 by "Matt Bittner" 16) More Likely to Close #72D2 by "Gordan Minski" 17) Re: re: ISO Nieuport trainer by "StefenK" 18) Re: Belgian Aircraft Markings by ERIC HIGHT 19) Eduard's Bebe Rigging Diagram by "StefenK" 20) Laskodi's Nieuport 11 by "StefenK" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:24:57 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: New 1/35th Mk.V Message-ID: <000f01c15906$09b642e0$5ef33c3f@umber> Thanks for the heads up Matt. I will get this added to the 'Kits list" at the AFV BBQ site. :) cheers Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Bittner" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 11:17 AM Subject: [WWI] New 1/35th Mk.V | Just saw this on Tushino-Aviapress, a 1/35th Mk.V: | http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?OMF-3501 | | I've never heard of the manufacturer "OMF". Plus it looks like it only | comes with Russian/Soviet markings. Still, making it into a British | machine shouldn't be too difficult. | | | Matt Bittner | | | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:47:39 -0400 From: "cameron rile" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Belgian Roundals was [Re: collection planning Message-ID: <4D8CD8B7982B3EC4886DE165CF16EB1B@cameron.prontomail.com> Mike wrote; >I like the colors on the roundels Same here, i think the Belgian roundals are the most attractive of all the aviation arms in WWI. The Aviation Militaire Belge was a fascinating little air arm too. cam ______________________________________________________________ Get Your Free E-mail at http://www.prontomail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:50:14 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: New Delta Decals Message-ID: <200110200248.f9K2mYg00513@snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net> I just received a set of the new German Delta Decals. These are nice! There are decals for: Hannover Cl.III; Albatros D.III; Albatros D.V; Albatros D.Va; Fokker D.VII; and two SSW D.IIIs. Very nice! Highly recommended. Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:59:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Belgian Aircraft Markings Message-ID: <20011020025910.50441.qmail@web11103.mail.yahoo.com> Guten Abend Y'all, Does anyone here know of any good Belgian markings in 1/48 other than the Blue Rider Nieuport 11/16 decals and the Americals national markings sheet (both excellent, btw)? I see a few in 1/72. Todd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:31:32 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Cookups Message-ID: <3BCDC6570004B307@mail.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) My thought on cookups is that the Albatros one was a good thing in that it brought everyone together. All of the others have elicited responses along the lines of its nice, but we should do my favourite instead .. and then as soon as someone doesn't like what has been proposed they try to start a new cook-up on their own. The Bittnerless Nieuport cookup was another good on in that everyone worked together towards a common theme. My thought is if you want to build it, build it, and you don't need a cookup to do it. . especially as there is not the enthusiasm for any of the others that the Albatros/Bittnerless Nieuports brought forward. Having said that, trainers would be an interesting theme as almost anything could be used. .. INCLUDING two engined Ilya . . and if it was done in the same manner as the Albatros cookup, it could open up a lot of information that most people ignore with the tendancy to focus on the more colourful scouts. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 07:41:00 +0000 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Caporetto Message-ID: ...and it is >attrocious, if anyone wrote anything so politically uncorrect >around here there would be an uproar, despite being written >10 years after the war it is still blatant british propaganda. Surely history is as much our interpretation of what happened as what actually happened? It just means that we have to read several versions or opinions and then understand them as appropriate. Considering the seriousness of war, and the passions it engenders, even years afterwards, surely it is asking a lot for accounts to be totally dispassionate. In fact, totally dispassionate accounts tend to be dry, and fail to convey the spirit of the event. As a reader, I would much rather read a passionate account and recognise it as such, than read a completely dry this-then-this account. There is also the question of what makes a book saleable, it is all very well us maintaining our scholarly integrity here, but we have to make a living. I am currently writing a book (NOT historical, thank heavens!) and the publishers have many "improvements" that they suggest purely to improve potential sales. As an impoverished artist, I go along with it..... Just my two penn'orth. N -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 07:42:54 +0000 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Caporetto Message-ID: >And I hope I'm not hurting anyones feelings here, I don't >want to. >/Neil C. I am glad that we can discuss these things, without coming to blows, well, not too often...... N -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:23:16 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: RE: Cookups Message-ID: <009401c15948$dbc93ac0$11010c3f@umber> I know myself that I don't know a great deal about trainers used during WWI. Not that I know that much about the fighters used either. Cook Ups I see as also being an place for not just list members, but websurfers to learn new or more things about OT planes. Cheers Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Pearson" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 3:49 PM Subject: [WWI] RE: Cookups | My thought on cookups is that the Albatros one was a good thing in that it | brought everyone together. All of the others have elicited responses along | the lines of its nice, but we should do my favourite instead .. and then as | soon as someone doesn't like what has been proposed they try to start a new | cook-up on their own. | | The Bittnerless Nieuport cookup was another good on in that everyone worked | together towards a common theme. | | My thought is if you want to build it, build it, and you don't need a cookup | to do it. . especially as there is not the enthusiasm for any of the others | that the Albatros/Bittnerless Nieuports brought forward. | | Having said that, trainers would be an interesting theme as almost anything | could be used. .. INCLUDING two engined Ilya . . and if it was done in the | same manner as the Albatros cookup, it could open up a lot of information | that most people ignore with the tendancy to focus on the more colourful | scouts. | | Bob | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:28:19 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: Re: EE S. 16 Message-ID: <001901c15949$8f0c09a0$0200a8c0@x.pl> All Sikorski Builders! Look at this: http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?PLG-002 (page found by Matt, particular book by me) G. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:20:11 -0400 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: RE: Cookups Message-ID: <003201c15961$90970280$61e82341@tampabay.rr.com> > Having said that, trainers would be an interesting theme as almost anything > could be used. .. INCLUDING two engined Ilya . . Oh hush Bob ;-) and if it was done in the > same manner as the Albatros cookup, it could open up a lot of information > that most people ignore with the tendancy to focus on the more colourful > scouts. Some outrageous and challenging schemes for the Bristol M.1c trainers. Didn't someone post that there were new releases of this aircraft coming out soon? Maybe in a few months a trainer cookup might seem like an even better idea. sp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:19:01 +0200 From: "Alberto Casirati" To: "WW1 Modeling List" Subject: Re: Caporetto Message-ID: <000901c15961$86de4d20$08e422d4@s> I am certainly not a real expert of WW1 ground warfare, but all the references at my disposal agree in underlining that: - the battle began on the 24th October 1917; - the Italian front collapsed in that front line sector; - the Italian tried to estabilish a resistance line on the Tagliamento river, but this was not sufficient to stop the enemy attack; - between the 5th and the 8th November 1917, French and British representatives met the Italian authorities at Rapallo, to offer their help, which was accepted; - meanwhile, the Italian army estabilished another defence line between the Piave river, the Grappa mountain and the plateaus, which was repeatedly attacked by the Central Power forces to no avail; - British and French forces arrived in Italy but were kept in back areas, as reserve forces; - the battle ended on the 26th November; - after the situation had settled, French and British forces reached front line positions. This seems to clear the matter. Substantiated comments welcome ! Alberto Casirati Honorary Keeper - Aviation Section Bergamo Museum of History www.museostoricobg.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 23:07:43 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: Fat balkenkreuze Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCD666@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Lance, > See what happens when you leave 1/48? Everything gets harder... Oh no, it's easier. In 1/72 I find I *can* say "who cares" > > Jasta 11 definitely corrected the Balkankreuze to a narrower > format later on the D.VIIs. Yup. But I don't think they had time or inclination to mod the Dr.1 once they botched it. Which is a pity because I have to make crosses for Weiss..... > I can scout for Jasta 11 tripe pictures, but can't get back > to you before Monday (US time). Thanks a lot - and I can wait. I have all the standard refs - Imrie, Albatros Pubs JG.1 , Dr.1, Dr.1 Special volumes, The SqnSig, Vintage Warbirds and Osprey volumes. Bit short on journals so that where you might be able to help. Not that it's a big problem. Thirtythree percent undersize in fact ;-) Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:20:05 -0400 From: "diaphus" To: Subject: Re: Fat balkenkreuze Message-ID: <000d01c15969$f0732280$28652241@tampabay.rr.com> Shane, I have had the same problem with my decal needs for Klimke's Dr. I. His plane had the "fat" crosses, but as you point out, the kits decals are the very skinny jobs. I have solved the problem, partially. I found decals on the Superscale sheet for Albatros DV and Dva (#72-771) which are pretty close (close enough for me anyway :->) to the correct dimensions. They're down at the bottom of the sheet. The problem (and why I opnly partially solved it) is that there are only two crosses, so I am on the hunt for another sheet to finish the underwing surfaces. Of course, now that I've let the cat out of the bag, so to speak, we may be competing for the same sheets ;-) HTH Jack Gartner diaphus@tampabay.rr.com PS On another note, I don't recall from your original post - you are using the Eduard kit? Is it just me, or is the fit of the u/c legs to the fuselage and especially into the axle fairing slots completely off? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:44:25 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: EE S. 16 Message-ID: <200110201342.GAA14013@gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 05:26:24 -0400 (EDT), Grzegorz Mazurowski wrote: > All Sikorski Builders! > Look at this: > http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?PLG-002 > (page found by Matt, particular book by me) I *think* that's the same book FMP translated and brought out in their line. FWIW... Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:53:11 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: EE S. 16 Message-ID: <200110201351.GAA03850@gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net> Other S.16 kits I know of are by Omega (I think) and Master Club (out of Russia). The MC ones are expensive, but if they're anything like the 1/48th ones, well worth it. I haven't seen the Omega one(s) yet, so no idea what those are like. Anybody seen those yet? Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:19:24 -0500 From: "Gordan Minski" To: mkt Subject: More Likely to Close #72D2 Message-ID: <200110201418.KAA31108@mustang.sr.unh.edu> This is a MIME Message ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0" ------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ***** This is an HTML Message ! ***** ------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FREE Computer With Merchant Account Setup

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Click Herem ------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0-- ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:18:23 -0400 From: "StefenK" To: "WWI Modeling List" Subject: Re: re: ISO Nieuport trainer Message-ID: <3BCDC7B2000637E1@mail.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) Thanks Matt and Diego (and mdf): A visit to mdf's Nieuport pages suggests that the mystery ship is a Ni 81 or 83. Is there any diagnostic feature that would distinguish between these two? The circular wire brace (?) over the front cockpit seen in the Rhinebeck 81 is visible in the photograph. Was this also a feature of the 83? Finally, are there decent plans/3-views of these types available somewhere? TIA and regards, Stefen ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 07:21:10 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Belgian Aircraft Markings Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20011020072028.01cacc30@pop.amug.org> todd, there are belgum markings on the ai sheet. eric At 11:01 PM 10/19/01 -0400, you wrote: >Guten Abend Y'all, > >Does anyone here know of any good Belgian markings in >1/48 other than the Blue Rider Nieuport 11/16 decals >and the Americals national markings sheet (both >excellent, btw)? I see a few in 1/72. > >Todd > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. >http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:10:05 -0400 From: "StefenK" To: "WWI Modeling List" Subject: Eduard's Bebe Rigging Diagram Message-ID: <3BCDC7B200063943@mail.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) G'day, all-- Following up my previous about Eduard gaffes and shortcomings elicited by the posting here of Bob Laskodi's pretty-looking Turrene 11 here, and the full build at Air & Sea, he is certainly right about the missing landing wire from the forward cabane to the interplane strut. However, this is not the least of the problems. The major boner is that the two flying wires attach to a common fitting on the fuselage at the midwing point, the geometrry recapitulating the V-strut idea. The landing wires also approximate this geometry as they attach to two separate turnbuckles a few inches apart on a plate just inboard of the interplane strut. The rigging diagram only further confuses matters because the rear flying wire is shown ending at about the first rib station on the lower wing--all the more surprising since the correct position is represented in the molding! (As a separate matter, the marking profiles of the Turrene machine show the forward third of the fuselage as CDL. I don't know whether there is some dispute about this, or whether the airframe was documented in two states, but the allusion to the tricolor seems correct--a motif not unknown from other examples.) Finally, it remains unclear to me whether the forward sides of the fuselage were linen covered or whether they were strengthened with wood or aluminum panels (Eduard color call-outs are for CDL), and if the latter how far aft they extended. Photographs suggest that there was a thick vertical wooden member just aft of the firewall that supported the breater tube, ammunition box support, and forward access plate (a feature captured in the Profipack PE fret). There seems to be no reason for further wooden strengthening of the forward fuselage. Regards, Stefen ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:26:29 -0400 From: "StefenK" To: "WWI Modeling List" Subject: Laskodi's Nieuport 11 Message-ID: <3BCDC3D300052E48@mail.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) Dear A&S editors-- Bob Laskodi has presented a very worthwhile build article of the Eduard Nieuport Bebe in the current issue, with excelent photo coverage of the very pretty-looking completed model of Turenne's machine. As noted by the author, the rigging instructions provided by the manufacturer are incorrect in not noting the forward landing wire. However, this is not the least of the problems. The major boner is that the two flying wires attach to a common fitting on the fuselage at the midwing point, the geometrry recapitulating the V-strut idea. The landing wires also approximate this geometry as they attach to two separate turnbuckles a few inches apart on a plate just inboard of the interplane strut. The rigging diagram only further confuses matters because the rear flying wire is shown ending at about the first rib station on the lower wing--all the more surprising since the correct position is represented in the molding! Further, while admiring Mr. Laskodi's dealing with the detail of coordinating the positions of the aileron bell cranks with those of the ailerons, they do not accurately reflect the mechanism on the prototype. The pivot pooint is at the rear of the elliptical portion of the crank, and therefore, the up-and-down motion of the forward arm attached to the control rods is *opposite* to that of the ailerons themselves. Given the point of rotation, more crank is visible for down aileron, less for up aileron--viewed from the top of the wing, of course. Finally, it is not clear from the article where the markings for the Turenne machine came from. If the decals were indeed those from the Profipack version of the kit, it might be appropriate to note that the color notes in that kit call for a clear-doped linen finish on the forward third of the fuselage (rather than roundel blue). I do not know whether there is some dispute about this, or whether the airframe was documented in two states, but from the photo accompanying article, the allusion to the tricolor seems correct--a motif not unknown from other examples. It may be appropriate to consider amending this otherwise excellent article in your fine Webzine, to which I have only recently subscribed. Best regards, Stefen Karver ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3818 **********************