WWI Digest 3804 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Polikarpov by "Matt Bittner" 2) re: Polikarpov (was: Ansaldo A-1) by Ray Boorman 3) re: Polikarpov (was: Ansaldo A-1) by =?iso-8859-1?B?TWFydO1uIEjpY3RvciBBRkZMSVRUTyBFQ0hBR/xF?= 4) Re: Archaeologists (was Ansaldo A-1 - Was Re: The 8th by Rory Goodwin 5) Re: old plastic questions by Rory Goodwin 6) Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by "Gaston Graf" 7) Brumowski's sister by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 8) Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by "David Layton" 9) Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by "Tomasz Gronczewski" 10) Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by "Tomasz Gronczewski" 11) RE: Brumowski's sister by "Gaston Graf" 12) Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by "Gaston Graf" 13) Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by "Gaston Graf" 14) Polish vrs German Aircraft by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 15) Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by "Tomasz Gronczewski" 16) RE: Polish vs. German Aircraft by "Karen & Keith Fainges" 17) Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by "dfernet0" 18) RE: The 1-16 scale Salmson 2A2 by Crawford Neil 19) Re: Ansaldo A-1 by "dfernet0" 20) RE: One more by "dfernet0" 21) Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by Witold Kozakiewicz 22) Re: wich IM? by "dfernet0" 23) Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of by "Lee M." 24) Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of by "dfernet0" 25) Pedro's Fokkker by "dfernet0" 26) Re: Dennis's Schnieder by Dennis Ugulano 27) Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by "Gaston Graf" 28) Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes by "Gaston Graf" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:10:58 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: Polikarpov Message-ID: <200110160109.SAA11601@albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net> One thing to mention. The "bible" on the I-16 is the Armada book. There's a new book just released by the makers of Avions, but I don't have it yet. It hasn't hit this side of the Atlantic yet. Soon, hopefully. If you're into other Polikarpov's, be aware that the author of the Armada I-16 book has just released books on the I-15 and I-153. Cool! Sorry for the off topic banter. Only the Nieuport can stir me more. ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:12:02 -0700 From: Ray Boorman To: Subject: re: Polikarpov (was: Ansaldo A-1) Message-ID: <20011016011750.PMYS13380.priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> The 50's makes my point actually. Its closer to Stalins lifetime. Read up on Polikarpov and Grigorovich's lives and you'll see why I am stating this. However to get back to the point. The I-16 was being called a copy of American racing planes and in particular the GeeBee at the time it was introduced by the western Aeronautical observers. These statements were more from propoganda than anything else. Ray On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:52:20 -0400 (EDT), Grzegorz Mazurowski wrote: >Speaking about OT designer Polikarpov ;-)... > >I must admit, that Tadeusz Soltyk was designer in AFAIK fromearly >'50s, (his 11th design, Iskra, is from 1960) so only 20 years after >I-16, from '70 is book I mention. > > >> Remember the entire design team spent time in jail during Stalins >> purges. Especially during the years 29-33. This is why its even >> harder to say they based design on foreign aircraft since they >didn't >> get to see in detail many foreign aircraft from jail. The >prototype >> I-16 had a big VT painted as part of its serial #. The VT standing >> for "Vnutrennaya Tyur'ma", or "internal prison". >Also Tupolev was working in 'jail' but I'm VERY SURE that it was not >real jail, just some kind of 'restricted area' and designers were >treated not like prisoners, more like state property or slaves - as >USSR was not normal country. It was almost the same sort of jail that >Oppenheimer's during work on 'Manhattan Project' I'm sure that Soviet >spies were working good, and Polikarpov must have had enough >informations what's going on in aviation world, as in such totalitary >country all was working for military industry. And GeeBee Y is from >1930. >Greetings >Grzegorz >(shall we move to GoldenAge with that discussion? that can make it >more living!) > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:53:05 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?TWFydO1uIEjpY3RvciBBRkZMSVRUTyBFQ0hBR/xF?= To: Subject: re: Polikarpov (was: Ansaldo A-1) Message-ID: <00e501c15591$7aaf1d00$b70de818@fibertel.com.ar> Friends In order to colaborate in this talk,I biult the 1/72 from Revell (mexican) I had to use several (14) to build a decent one. I've studied its history and performance. The truth is that I don't believe they're similar; in first place the GEE BEE is smaller and with a huge motor pyw 840 HP and its only function was to set new records. Meanwhile the I- 16 Prototype ( was called TsKB - 12 ) had a the Bristol Jupiter (450HP) and afterwards they changed it for a W. Cyclone (775 HP ). Both are Russian copies from the originals and had less strength; but it was the first combat aeroplane in service with a retractile. train And a speed of 450Km/h until 1937. It was a serial plane Martín ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Boorman To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 10:18 PM Subject: [WWI] re: Polikarpov (was: Ansaldo A-1) > The 50's makes my point actually. Its closer to Stalins lifetime. > Read up on Polikarpov and Grigorovich's lives and you'll see why I > am stating this. > However to get back to the point. The I-16 was being called a copy of > American racing planes and in particular the GeeBee at the time it > was introduced by the western Aeronautical observers. These > statements were more from propoganda than anything else. > > Ray > > On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:52:20 -0400 (EDT), Grzegorz Mazurowski wrote: > >Speaking about OT designer Polikarpov ;-)... > > > >I must admit, that Tadeusz Soltyk was designer in AFAIK fromearly > >'50s, (his 11th design, Iskra, is from 1960) so only 20 years after > >I-16, from '70 is book I mention. > > > > > >> Remember the entire design team spent time in jail during Stalins > >> purges. Especially during the years 29-33. This is why its even > >> harder to say they based design on foreign aircraft since they > >didn't > >> get to see in detail many foreign aircraft from jail. The > >prototype > >> I-16 had a big VT painted as part of its serial #. The VT standing > >> for "Vnutrennaya Tyur'ma", or "internal prison". > >Also Tupolev was working in 'jail' but I'm VERY SURE that it was not > >real jail, just some kind of 'restricted area' and designers were > >treated not like prisoners, more like state property or slaves - as > >USSR was not normal country. It was almost the same sort of jail > that > >Oppenheimer's during work on 'Manhattan Project' I'm sure that > Soviet > >spies were working good, and Polikarpov must have had enough > >informations what's going on in aviation world, as in such > totalitary > >country all was working for military industry. And GeeBee Y is from > >1930. > >Greetings > >Grzegorz > >(shall we move to GoldenAge with that discussion? that can make it > >more living!) > > > > > >_________________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:59:06 -0700 From: Rory Goodwin To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Archaeologists (was Ansaldo A-1 - Was Re: The 8th Message-ID: <3BCBB08A.70309BAB@earthlink.net> Yes, that rates as 'historic' archaeology. In the U.S. we have such a brief history that in certain parts of the country (such as CA) we are bound by law to document any old house or even trash dump threatened by land development that appears to be older than 45-50 years. Its job security, but it frequently gets silly and ugly. Oh, well. It beats working for a living... dfernet0 wrote: > I'll use a fedora next time I build an ancient kit. ;-) > D. > PS: My cousin -an architect- made a map of a XVII century cemetery > discovered in my city. Does that count? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:22:18 -0700 From: Rory Goodwin To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: old plastic questions Message-ID: <3BCBB5F9.74A01185@earthlink.net> I must confess to having built the SPAD. It was finished as Jean Jaques Bullard's (first African-American fighter pilot with 2 or 3 unconfirmed victories) ac for my wife's acquantaince's son who'll probably will never know it should be a VII; I even faked his pierced heart "All blood runs red" marking. Got a chance to test my color choices for SPAD yellows....a fun kit if you don't take it seriously. Decals are almost too good to waste on the kit. Crawford Neil wrote: > Interesting thought, I have a friend like this, he actually enjoys > building all the Glencoe re-releases, in various weird scales. > He keeps telling me that they are really quite good. He was > going to build a Merlin oob last time I heard, which reminds > me, it was a long time since I heard from him.............. > /Neil C. > > > So we should build all the older stuff in our stash then on the idea > > that all the recent stuff can wait a bit. Are we seeing the > > birth pangs > > of a "Traditionalist" movement of modelling. "None of this > > modern stuff > > for me thank you I have lots of Airfix and Aurora kits" :-) > > snip > > > > Mistress Lorna > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:09:01 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: > I have followed this story for a few years and I wonder, still, why the > Poles haven't just simply sell the aircraft back to the Germans. The > Germans get their planes back and the Poles get cash. > > Why this simple transaction hasn't take place is beyond me. But as an > American, where everything has a price, I may never understand the > nationalism involved. > That's strange because I know the Americans as a very very nationalist Nation - would you sell things of National American interest to somebody else, espcially if that "somebody" was your former enemy? I doubt it! Also you should know that there are things on earth that cannot so easily be bought by money. Money isn't everything in the world! The thinking that everything has a price and can be bought by money is in my eyes rather primitive and something that brings me up the palm tree, really! No offence intended - just my feelings about it. best regards Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 03:06:18 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: "wwi lista" Subject: Brumowski's sister Message-ID: <000001c15603$6c9550a0$0200a8c0@x.pl> Hi! There was topic about some troubles with real nationality of AH pilots, I don't remember where and when (about yesterday). Oh!, I recall - it was about Linke-Crawford's HB D.I built by Pedro! I want to add this: Brumowski's sister lived in Poland after WWI. Grzegorz _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:38:53 -0500 From: "David Layton" To: Subject: Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: <000d01c15604$d75c68a0$416cd918@DavidLayton> We Americans are very practical (read 'mercenary') when it comes to museum aircraft. In fact some of the trades done in the past were quite interesting. Actually, the US has sent 'museum aircraft' all over the world. We even acquired the Strahle Halberstadts by sending obsolete fighter-Trainers, I recall these were T-28's to the seller of the Halberstadts so he could pedal the T-28 in Africa for an air force there and make a small fortune and we got two of the derelect Halberstadts and one went to the Berlin V und T museum for their work restoring the NASM and USAFM aircraft. And, this was all brokered by a U.S. Congressman with the Smithsonian's support. We have sent vintage WWII aircraft to England for their museum in Duxford. The Pere Lusac 11 was acquired from France in a trade for a F-5 variant of the P-38. I think that folks in Krakow are missing a business opportunity. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:16:48 +0200 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: > And "Deutsche Luftfahrtsammlung" was not CAPTURED > by Poland, it was left in Poland by Germans! I fully agree. The legal status of this collection demands clarification. > "Deutsche Luftfahrtsammlung" is the only collection of pre-1945 > planes in Poland, because our dear Germans bombed and burned our own > two or three collections which included treasures like first Polish > glider 'Lotnia' from 1896, or Gotha G.III or IV, legally aquired by > Poland in 1919, and many others. Yup. I will support Grzes as much as I can. More, I'd return any ex German plane owned by Polish Museum right now, but only as an exchange for all those aircraft captured in 1939 and sent to Germany. Many unique old Polish aircraft were taken to Third Reich and were lost due to lack of care. I'd provide a kind of analogy: Imagine that you took my car without my own permission. Later I found your own car left in my garage. During a course of years you lost or destroyed my own car while I has been carrying after your car as well as I could. Would you insist now to return your car unconditionaly, and refuse to return my own because you've already lost it? I am very, very sensitive on that. > Second problem, what to do with such "Deutsche Luftfahrtsammlung" > parts like Camel or DH 4 (or 9, I don't remember) - who's property it > should be? German? Why not British? There are many, many German planes preserved in museums in the world, which had been acquired as war trophies. I simply cannot agree with Holger Steinle, who demands return of this very collection. Volker, Hans, if any parts of my reply were offending, please forgive me. It was absolutely beyond my intentions to offend anybody. I do understand Mr. Steinle, who would love to see those planes in Germany. But please understand the other party, who has lost most of its own relics in the course of the war. Also please appreciate the fact that Polish renovation teams resisted temptation to apply Polish markings to those aircraft, although majority of the types stored here had been used by Poles during a great and successful war against Bolsheviks. The Museum preserves them as GERMAN planes to witness achievements of GERMAN aviation industry. Cheers Tomasz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pliki wideo za jednym kliknieciem. Wyszukiwarka multimediow. Nowe Centrum Wyszukiwania >> http://szukaj.interia.pl/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:30:47 +0200 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: > We Americans are very practical (read 'mercenary') when it comes to museum > aircraft. We aren't. I think it is not because we are generally less practical than Americans. It is beacuse we have already lost majority of relics of our 1000 years history during recent wars. I am afraid that if your country had been rolled by a couple of invading armies destroying and stealing as much as they could, plus one communist regime ruining last survivors, you would desire now to preserve everything of historical value. > Actually, the US has sent 'museum aircraft' all over the world. You see. I wish Poles had any OT, or Golden Age, or even wwii 'museum aircraft' to trade. > I think that folks in Krakow are missing a business opportunity. And what kind of business you would advice Krakow now? To sell these planes and buy other OT planes? Where? To trade unique Roland D.VI for hunderdth Bf 1*9 thingie? In my opinion any possible trade will be a lost for Krakow museum. Tomasz -------------------------------------------------- Poczta nie pozwoli Ci zapomniec. Z zewn±trz poczta, w srodku takze organizer. Twoja nowa poczta >> http://poczta.interia.pl/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:05:23 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: RE: Brumowski's sister Message-ID: Uhmm...... wasn't there a picture showing her in the cockpit of an aircraft? I think if have such a pic somewhere... Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > I want to add this: Brumowski's sister lived in Poland after WWI. > Grzegorz > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:16:49 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: Trading ac for ac really makes sense and I agree to that. If you see it that way, yes such a trade could be an opportunity for Poland. But in the previous post I replied to, this was not clear. I know that people who have a lot of money often think they can have *everything* for money, and that's what I condemn. And again, regarding the Polish-German thing, I think it would be best for both sides to find an agreement about restoration and hosting of the ac. The Germans have the money and the knowledge - the Polish have the knowledge and the skills. Could make a perfect team! Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > We Americans are very practical (read 'mercenary') when it comes to museum > aircraft. In fact some of the trades done in the past were quite > interesting. > > Actually, the US has sent 'museum aircraft' all over the world. We even > acquired the Strahle Halberstadts by sending obsolete fighter-Trainers, I > recall these were T-28's to the seller of the Halberstadts so he > could pedal > the T-28 in Africa for an air force there and make a small fortune and we > got two of the derelect Halberstadts and one went to the Berlin V und T > museum for their work restoring the NASM and USAFM aircraft. > And, this was > all brokered by a U.S. Congressman with the Smithsonian's support. > > We have sent vintage WWII aircraft to England for their museum in Duxford. > The Pere Lusac 11 was acquired from France in a trade for a F-5 variant of > the P-38. > > I think that folks in Krakow are missing a business opportunity. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:21:32 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: To conclude: The Americans think rather practical - the Poles think rather emotional. The trick is to understand both ;o) Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > > > We Americans are very practical (read 'mercenary') when it > comes to museum > > aircraft. > > We aren't............. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:03:21 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Polish vrs German Aircraft Message-ID: Hi All; I've been witnessing the thread re the German Aircraft in Polish Museums with interest and I have a question. Were these aircraft taken officially as reparations by the Polish Government of the time? If so, this would of course decrease the German's right of return. I believe some of the German war artefacts in Australian possession, such as field guns given as museum pieces etc may have that status. I'm not sure whether the A7V was such a piece or not. It would be interesting to find out. Maybe to reduce controversy these museum pieces should re restored and exhibited in a third agreed country. That would end all the controversy perhaps. Neil E. _________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:23:45 +0200 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: > To conclude: The Americans think rather practical - the Poles think rather > emotional. > The trick is to understand both ;o) Haha! Good point. But as I have written before it happens when it comes to our roots, history and relics, not to a business itself. On the other hand how to explain extraoridinary huge demand for Stars 'n' Bars flags after a September disaster? It doesn't sound emotionless... Tomasz P.S. Sorry for bringing THE topic once again. -------------------------------------------------- Kariera i dziecko. Sprzecznosc czy wyzwanie? Forum Polek - faceci nie maja glosu! http://www.polki.interia.pl/ -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:40:30 +1000 From: "Karen & Keith Fainges" To: Subject: RE: Polish vs. German Aircraft Message-ID: Neil Have just grabbed Mark Whitmore's "Mephisto" - was taken as a war trophy. But recently we allowed German technicians and historians to crawl all over it and thru it. >From this they were able to make a replica as they knew that they weren't getting it back. And there was no other in the world, to trade for So that may also be a possible answer - Allow German historians to make measurements (at cost - that's how some of the money for protection of Mephisto was gained) and make themselves replicas Keith Fainges -----Original Message----- From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2001 6:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] Polish vrs German Aircraft Hi All; I've been witnessing the thread re the German Aircraft in Polish Museums with interest and I have a question. Were these aircraft taken officially as reparations by the Polish Government of the time? If so, this would of course decrease the German's right of return. I believe some of the German war artefacts in Australian possession, such as field guns given as museum pieces etc may have that status. I'm not sure whether the A7V was such a piece or not. It would be interesting to find out. Maybe to reduce controversy these museum pieces should re restored and exhibited in a third agreed country. That would end all the controversy perhaps. Neil E. _________________________________________________________________ ________________ NOTICE: This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies immediately. If you are the intended recipient of this communication, you should not copy, disclose or distribute this communication without the authority of the Department of Human Services. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Department. Except as required by law, the Department does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. If you have received this email in error or have other concerns regarding this transmission, please contact the Department of Human Services System Administrator at Postmaster@dhs.vic.gov.au _________________________________________________________________ ________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:11:47 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: <007901c1562a$f6f12ae0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Tomasz wrote: > Imagine that you took my car without my own permission. -snip- > I am very, very sensitive on that. Oh, just when I was going to ask you to lend me... OK, no troubles, Tomasz, no problem! D. (Hey Gaston, would you lend me you car keys for a while? I just want to take a short ride to... hmmm... the grocery store. I promess I woooon't drink) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:06:03 +0200 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: The 1-16 scale Salmson 2A2 Message-ID: Jim says: Of course the French WWI camo color chips are different from all other French WWI camo colors I've seen. I think I'll paint the whole damn thing flat black. Which means that 20% of it will be 100% authentic! /Neil C. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:27:44 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Re: Ansaldo A-1 Message-ID: <00ed01c1562d$313d42e0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Thanks for the report, Alberto! > the tyres > have now regained their original rounded section. Applications of liquid > rubber will make their external surface more resistant. Of course, the tyres > are not able to sustain the aircraft's weight any more ! Does that mean that the aircraft will be displayed again hanging from the ceiling? Oh no! > The engine is done and its very good conditions could make a running test a > welcome possibility.... Certainly is a mouth watering possibility! will the fuselage structure be able to sustain the engine vibrations after 80+ years or it's planned to make it run on a test stand? Great news! D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:29:19 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: One more Message-ID: <00ee01c1562d$69fa1a40$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Stunning Großdachsundhölzernerthingier, Sandy! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Bittner To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 8:28 PM Subject: [WWI] One more > Yes, another update. No wonder I don't get any modeling done... :-) > Sandy Adam sends us an extremely well done Flea. Cool! > > > Matt Bittner > WW1 Site Assistant Editor > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:44:21 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: <3BCC0F85.1060509@bg.am.lodz.pl> Grzegorz Mazurowski wrote: > Second problem, what to do with such "Deutsche Luftfahrtsammlung" > parts like Camel or DH 4 (or 9, I don't remember) - who's property it > should be? German? Why not British? DH-9A was traded for Spitfire with Imperial War Museum IIRC. I must agree with Grzegorz and Tomasz, We do care of this collection. And one more thing, that collection is in Poland because of war which was _lost_ by Germany. Why should we pay for war we wan? -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:58:19 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Re: wich IM? Message-ID: <015501c15631$7769e760$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Thanks a lot Al! It was one of the finest issues of IM. Matt! Great work. I got the J.M. Bruce book thanks to a friend and was intrigued to read the article again. The fuselage side struts are strange, ain't them? D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Superczynski To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 2:49 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: wich IM? > > >On wich month of IM there was the article on the Hanriot HD3 written by = > Matt > >le Bittner? > > April 2001: > http://www.internetmodeler.com/2001/april/aviation/Hanriot_HD3.htm > > -- > Al > http://apollo.up-link.net/~modeleral > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 06:16:30 -0500 From: "Lee M." To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of Message-ID: <3BCC170D.4193BD32@x25.net> merican attitude. It goes like this. "You kicked my dog.". "That means you kicked my cat, me and my family." You can not do one without the others. Nothing succeeds in arousing the Americians as well as a swift kick in their general backsides, or an attack on any part of their country or world... It will unite them faster than anything else in the that could be done. In the words of the Japanese Admiral in the movie "Tora, Tora, Tora" " I believe we have awakened a sleeping giant". This is the way it works in this country. Our motto is "E pluribus unum". Of many is ONE. We are not called the United States because of divisiveness between our citizens. You kick one you kick us all..... Some fool kicked and killed close to 6000. That will not be soon forgotten or forgiven. Lee M. New Braunfels, Tx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:31:58 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of Message-ID: <018a01c15636$2a827520$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> This thread is interesting, but let's keep it in the WW1 topic please. D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:37:00 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Pedro's Fokkker Message-ID: <01b901c15636$deed4940$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Thanks for the details Pedro! D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:38:46 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: Re: Dennis's Schnieder Message-ID: <200110160739_MC3-E379-3B05@compuserve.com> cam, Since I have the Schnieder at home as we speak, I don't have to guess at what I did. The floats are right out of the box. After folding the float struts, they fit perfectly. I did not want to make new ones. For what ever reason, I replaced the cabanes with strut material. The outer struts are the kit PE and I see that I was able to drill holes for my rigging. The rear float struts are PE. I made no attempt to thicken the struts with super glue. This was one of my first models with extensive PE and I do remember struggling with it. I hope this helps. Uggie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:49:55 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: Re: Money isn't everything! was RE: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: That's what I mean - you Polskis are a very emotional Nation ;o). btw: Also in Luxemburg many people either rose a US flag or put our own national flag on half-mast. On a French aviation magazine I noticed a small US flag on the cover. We have no flag pole on our house or in our garden so the Stars and Stripes are waving as a screensaver on my puter. That's easy to do with Windows. Get you a jpg file of the flag, then use it as a texture for the 3D Flying Objects screensaver. Cheers! Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > > > > To conclude: The Americans think rather practical - the Poles > think rather > > emotional. > > The trick is to understand both ;o) > > Haha! Good point. But as I have written before it happens when it comes to > our roots, history and relics, not to a business itself. > On the other hand how to explain extraoridinary huge demand for Stars 'n' > Bars flags after a September disaster? It doesn't sound emotionless... > > Tomasz > > P.S. Sorry for bringing THE topic once again. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:00:47 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: Re: German demands of returning 'Goering's collection' (planes Message-ID: O-oooh..... be careful here. Poland did not win the war as a nation, afaIk. It was the Allied Forces that won the war with the help of a handful of brave Poles! That makes a difference. Also you mentionned that *you* call the collection the *Goering* collection. Again something to be very very carful with! Not every German deed was related to Goering like not every German deed was related to the Nazis like not every stolen car is related to the Poles :oP. Hey, the Luxemburgers occupied Germany after the war was over! Well, at least part of it in the Bitburg area. Because we did not have enough soldiers to occupy the rest, we called our Allied friends again to do that job for us ;o). Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > > I must agree with Grzegorz and Tomasz, We do care of this collection. > And one more thing, that collection is in Poland because of war which > was _lost_ by Germany. Why should we pay for war we wan? > -- > Witold Kozakiewicz > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3804 **********************