WWI Digest 3776 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: What The ?????? (and Jasta 11 Kette commanders) by "dfernet0" 2) Re: Urban legend by "dfernet0" 3) New upload by "Matt Bittner" 4) RE: New upload by "dfernet0" 5) Re: Urban legend by "Marcio Antonio Campos" 6) Re: Urban legend by "dfernet0" 7) Kuerten and OT Books by "Marcio Antonio Campos" 8) Re: Kuerten/jasta 31 by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 9) Re: Kuerten/jasta 31 by "Marcio Antonio Campos" 10) Re: Urban legend by Peter Mullin 11) Re: Kuerten/jasta 31 by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 12) new resin AEG C.IV in 1/72 by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 13) Aerial Camera Scan for Hosting by "stefenk" 14) Hyperscale review of Roden Gotha.. by "Ross Moorhouse" 15) Re: The Lozenge Deckels Project by "tsollers" 16) Re: Hyperscale review of Roden Gotha.. by "tsollers" 17) RE:Junkers D.I ... was New upload by "Lance Krieg" 18) RE: Aerial Camera Scan for Hosting by Shane Weier 19) IPMSUK Nats by LEONARDPeterL@aol.com 20) Re: IPMSUK Nats by "Lance Krieg" 21) RE: SE5a Questions by "Pedro Soares" 22) Memorial Flight SE5a Photos by "Neil Eddy" 23) Finally Finished by "Steven Perry" 24) MvR's Other Triplanes by "Laskodi" 25) Re: IPMSUK Nats by KarrArt@aol.com 26) Re: IPMSUK Nats by "dfernet0" 27) Re: IPMSUK Nats by "Michael Kendix" 28) RE: Memorial Flight SE5a Photos by "dfernet0" 29) RE: SE5a Questions by "dfernet0" 30) Re: MvR's Other Triplanes by "Hans Trauner" 31) Odp: RE: SE5a Questions by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 32) Re: SRAM comments? by Ivan Subrt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:52:33 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Re: What The ?????? (and Jasta 11 Kette commanders) Message-ID: <00ca01c14d8b$d68de1a0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Pedro, using his Emperor Palpatine voice, said (wrote!): > Tonight it was Marcio's time, > tomorrow it'll be you Diego... > The rest of the gang won't probably understand it, but you know what I'm > talking about, don't you :-). Who, me? ;-) Let's talk tomorrow! D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:54:57 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Re: Urban legend Message-ID: <00e001c14d8c$2c194ba0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Lance Seems like the car healed itself after every accident. It also refuelled and changed oil every 7000 km by himself, wich made it very sought after by unaware individuals... :-) D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance Krieg To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 7:25 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Urban legend > Hmmm... > > The car apparently never suffered any damage in these fatal accidents? > > Quality workmanship! > > Lance > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 05:51:59 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@wwi-models.org" Subject: New upload Message-ID: <200110051050.DAA13896@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net> Thanks to Karen, I just uploaded some images of the "real" Junkers D.I taken at the French Air Museum. Matt Bittner WW1 Site Assistant Editor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:12:42 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: New upload Message-ID: <012701c14d8e$a7281040$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Greay pictures! It's always amazing to see the Junkers metal craftmanship. Karen,(or anyone fortunate to have visited the museum) woul you tell me if there was any type of bulkhead behind the seat, coivering the inner fuselage structure, or it was possible to see the beams inside the aft section? Wich colour was the interior of the airplane? Thanks a lot in advance D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Bittner To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 7:51 AM Subject: [WWI] New upload > Thanks to Karen, I just uploaded some images of the "real" Junkers D.I > taken at the French Air Museum. > > > Matt Bittner > WW1 Site Assistant Editor > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:55:52 -0300 From: "Marcio Antonio Campos" To: Subject: Re: Urban legend Message-ID: <001a01c14d94$af374ca0$581ba8c0@officesp.starmedia> IIRC, James Dean's car also seems to have such killing properties... Marcio Antonio Campos Redator do GuiaSP StarMedia do Brasil +55 11 30436421 marcio.campos@starmedia.net http://www.guiasp.com.br http://www.guiarj.com.br http://www.nacidade.com.br > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of Lance > Krieg > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 7:26 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Re: Urban legend > > > Hmmm... > > The car apparently never suffered any damage in these fatal accidents? > > Quality workmanship! > > Lance ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:02:53 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Re: Urban legend Message-ID: <016f01c14d95$a9d41940$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Oh God! Was James Dean also shot by Gavrilo Princip? Yikes! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcio Antonio Campos To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 8:54 AM Subject: [WWI] Re: Urban legend > IIRC, James Dean's car also seems to have such killing properties... > > Marcio Antonio Campos ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:21:55 -0300 From: "Marcio Antonio Campos" To: Subject: Kuerten and OT Books Message-ID: <002001c14d98$5306b200$581ba8c0@officesp.starmedia> > Where did he come in the US Open ? Ah, not so well as in the last two French Opens :-)))))))))) we can't win everything... Ha, Shane, don't torture me! :-) My team, Corinthians, current Fifa Club World Champion, is not doing well in the Brazilian league; no words about our national team; we didn't get any gold medal in Sydney; the only one that still makes us proud is Kuerten... :-))))))))))))))))))) -------- I'm still reading the Fokker D.VII Anthology I, and very curious about what I'm going to find in Anthology II. However, I ordered a pile of Osprey books recently and I don't think my credit card will stand another purchase till next month :-) And I'm also eager to but the Pfalz book at Amazon, but it'll have to wait too... So many kits, so many books, not so much money... :-( All the best from Brazil Marcio Antonio Campos Redator do GuiaSP StarMedia do Brasil +55 11 30436421 marcio.campos@starmedia.net http://www.guiasp.com.br http://www.guiarj.com.br http://www.nacidade.com.br ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:25:52 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: Re: Kuerten/jasta 31 Message-ID: <008f01c14d98$e040dec0$0200a8c0@x.pl> Marcio wrote: > I'm still reading the Fokker D.VII Anthology I, Is there anything about D.VII from Jasta 31? G. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:33:24 -0300 From: "Marcio Antonio Campos" To: Subject: Re: Kuerten/jasta 31 Message-ID: <002401c14d99$eef03820$581ba8c0@officesp.starmedia> Grzegorz, Jasta 31 markings come in Anthology vol. II. My book goes from Jastas 1 to 21. All the best from Brazil Marcio Antonio Campos Redator do GuiaSP StarMedia do Brasil +55 11 30436421 marcio.campos@starmedia.net http://www.guiasp.com.br http://www.guiarj.com.br http://www.nacidade.com.br > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of > Grzegorz Mazurowski > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 9:25 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Re: Kuerten/jasta 31 > > > Marcio wrote: > > I'm still reading the Fokker D.VII Anthology I, > > Is there anything about D.VII from Jasta 31? > G. > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 07:44:51 -0500 From: Peter Mullin To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Urban legend Message-ID: <3BBDAB43.E2F92738@biocomp.unl.edu> dfernet0 wrote: > Oh God! Was James Dean also shot by Gavrilo Princip? Yikes! > D. No, he was trounced by a small Serbian army... -- Peter Mullin Department of Plant Pathology University of Nebraska-Lincoln 406 Plant Sciences Hall Lincoln, NE 68583-0722 (402) 472-5770 FAX: (402) 472-2853 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:54:51 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: Re: Kuerten/jasta 31 Message-ID: <000701c14d9c$ed338ca0$0200a8c0@x.pl> Thanks, Marcio! G. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:02:58 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: "wwi lista" Subject: new resin AEG C.IV in 1/72 Message-ID: <000d01c14d9e$0fd0d3c0$0200a8c0@x.pl> Hi all! There is new Polish resin AEG C.IV available, made by Ardpol in 1/72. Ardpol is very good company and their previous models were almost perfect (I have Halberstadt Cl.IV). AEG I haven't seen, only info on Jadar site: http://www.jadar.com.pl/firmy/ardpol/72012/72012.htm Usual disclaimer: no connection, just info etc. Grzegorz _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:20:15 -0400 From: "stefenk" To: "WWI Model List" Subject: Aerial Camera Scan for Hosting Message-ID: <001d01c14da0$7a892940$974df6d1@stefenk> G'day, List members with Web sites-- I know there have been the occasional research inquiry concerning aerial cameras. I have an excellent copyright-free reproductin showing a variety of German aerial cameras types (those of other combatants were very similar), and a couple of interesting shots of a mobile darkroom used for processing recon photos. Anyone who has disk space to host scans of these for the List community, please contact me off-List to advise technical requirements. Regards, Stefen For those interested in this topic: In my recent preliminary reading of an early post-war monograph on this subject, the most surprising thing I learned is that most of these cameras used a shuffle mechanism to change the plates in a magazine ("backs" in the parlance I am familiar with from my photography days) containing some 6 to 12 exposures. There were, though, some cameras that did use roll film, perhaps with a clock-driven mechanism. I should have line drawings of these mechanisms soon. ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 23:33:01 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Hyperscale review of Roden Gotha.. Message-ID: <007401c14da2$429e5d00$abe5223f@umber> http://www.kitreview.com/reviews/gothagivreviewrb_1.htm I havent read it yet. Just saw that the site was updated. Cheers Ross ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 09:43:15 -0400 From: "tsollers" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: The Lozenge Deckels Project Message-ID: <200110051343.f95DhFj22834@mail.bcpl.net> OK folks, I'm a little confused here (doesn't take much these days). What is the difference between a page posting scans of a small portion of various manufactures lozenge decal products for comparison purposes and the great multitude of kit reviews that include scans of decals and box tops? I work in the graphic arts industry and believe me, I have a healthy respect for copyright. However, I believe there is a certain amount of leeway that is allowed for products that are released into the public market place. I believe any reasonable manufacturer understands and indeed encourages the discussion and promotion of the their products in the media. Perhaps one of the answers is not to even take a stand on the products. After all, I was under the impression that the purpose was the allow everyone to employ "Dicta Ira". Just post the available products and all the pertinent info on the manufacturers and availability. Leave the evaluation to discussions on the list. At any rate, here are a few guideline I'd like to suggest: 1. Only reproduce a small segment of the decal sheet. Say no ore than one repeat of the pattern. 2. Credit the manufacturer. List distributors. 3. Clearly state we are not making a profit and have no affiliation to any of the manufacturers. 4. Be sure to include color bars (as previously suggested) to allow viewers to interpret color correctness. Just my two cents worth... Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 09:46:04 -0400 From: "tsollers" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Hyperscale review of Roden Gotha.. Message-ID: <200110051346.f95Dk4j23665@mail.bcpl.net> Now, there's an example of a site review that has reproduced both an entire decal sheet and a box top. Tom ---------- >From: "Ross Moorhouse" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WWI] Hyperscale review of Roden Gotha.. >Date: Fri, Oct 5, 2001, 9:31 AM > > http://www.kitreview.com/reviews/gothagivreviewrb_1.htm I havent read it > yet. Just saw that the site was updated. > > Cheers > > Ross > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:54:15 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: RE:Junkers D.I ... was New upload Message-ID: Diego wonders: "...if there was any type of bulkhead behind the seat," No, there is not, and the rather complicated beam/seat support structure is visible, as is the interior of the rear fuselage. Unfortunately, I was out of film by the time I got to this plane, but my notes state the interior is unpainted and the seat is covered with tan canvas. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 00:02:56 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Aerial Camera Scan for Hosting Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCD5E7@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Stefen notes: > For those interested in this topic: In my recent preliminary > reading of an > early post-war monograph on this subject, the most surprising thing I > learned is that most of these cameras used a shuffle > mechanism to change the > plates in a magazine ("backs" in the parlance I am familiar > with from my > photography days) containing some 6 to 12 exposures. There > were, though, > some cameras that did use roll film, perhaps with a > clock-driven mechanism. > I should have line drawings of these mechanisms soon. This was the subject of a somewhat acrimonious exchange on this list a while back. One member was (shall we say) surprised that plates were used at all, let alone used primarily Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:26:17 EDT From: LEONARDPeterL@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: IPMSUK Nats Message-ID: <12c.594bebf.28ef1d09@aol.com> I can't remember ever feeling less enthuiastic about the Nats. Last year I came away with that "so what?" feeling. The Mannock trophy, the only competition I ever bother entering, wasn't even held and looking at the booking form it doesn't seem to feature this year either. Despite claims by the commitee to the contrary there looked to be fewer traders. Certainly there was a lot of space that wasn't there before and some European regulars were noticable by their absence. Much of it though has to do with the venue. Donnington at least had a purpose besides just being a venue. It's a working race track and it houses the Formula 1 museum. If places have charisma then Donnington has it. People visiting for some other purpose would call in at the Nats in passing. Telford on the otherhand has all the charm and atmosphere of an out of town carpet warehouse, with which it shares many archetectural features. There is no passing trade and nowhere to park if you get there after 10am. Try walking through a howling gale and pelting rain with a 1/48 Caudron clutched to your chest as I did the first year it was there. Think I might stay home this year. cheers (I think) Peter L ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 10:03:20 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: IPMSUK Nats Message-ID: "Think I might stay home this year." Gee, Peter, the UK Nats has always been one of the holy grails of modeling for me, and someday I hope to attend. Sounds like it's losing some of it's luster (er... lustre). I always thought the WWI models were well subscribed; not so much any more? I must confess, though, the mental picture of a hula-skirted man with a Caudron clutched to his bosom, sprinting through a parking lot in the rain, brings a smile to my lips! Lance ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 16:04:09 +0100 From: "Pedro Soares" To: Subject: RE: SE5a Questions Message-ID: <003901c14dae$fc2adbc0$ce7116d5@netcabo.pt> > Yes. Take a look at: http://memorial.flight.free.fr/SE5A.html and choose > "cockpit" or "vue Panoramique" Great pointer. Muchissimas gracias D. Diego. Talk to you tomorrow :-) Um abraço Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:20:12 +1000 From: "Neil Eddy" To: Subject: Memorial Flight SE5a Photos Message-ID: <003e01c14db1$3b13fb80$b38586cb@mannock> Diego; Just out of weekend Lurk to thank you for reminding me of the Memorial Flight SE5a photographs. I had forgotten that I had this site bookmarked a while ago. This is one tasty collection of SE5a photos! I just wish we had such a collection for all OT aircraft. (even French ones :) Also had a lot of fun with the panorama function, enabling me to look at obscure bits such as the flare rack....ooooh...I feel my first dose of AMS coming on.... All the Best Neil E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 11:31:43 -0400 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Finally Finished Message-ID: <000d01c14db2$d6e16e20$61e82341@tampabay.rr.com> Finally finished my HB D.I. I found the struts to be more trouble than a boomer. I think I had more setbacks on this model than any other. I ended up stripping the tail feathers, messing them up a second time and then scratchbuilding them. I started this in late July or August and figured I'd have plenty of time to complete it before the Region 11 contest in Oct. Well just, the contest is tomorrow. Still, it's complete and competative, so I'm glad I shelved the AEG because I'd never have finished that in time. No photos but maybe I can find someone at the contest with a digicam. I've been aching to build this kit since I read St. Harry's review article on it. I'm such a sucker for plywod and CDL. Starstruts OTOH.................. sp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:42:45 -0700 From: "Laskodi" To: "WWI List Post" Subject: MvR's Other Triplanes Message-ID: <000b01c14db4$612ee5c0$443819d0@f4hn201> I am building Manfred von Richthofen's "other" Fokker Dr.I. I have narrowed it down to either 477/17 or 127/17, both of which featured a red top wing, rear fuselage (including rudder), cowl, and wheel coverings. I have conflicting evidence on which aircraft carried the Patee(narrow waist) and Balkankruse (straight) German crosses. The question is, which fuselage carried which style of cross? Also, were the upper wing "Patee" style crosses backed with the large white background ala most Dr.I's? So, what do our list experten think? TIA ---------Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 11:52:18 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: IPMSUK Nats Message-ID: In a message dated 10/5/01 8:07:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lance.krieg@amerus.com writes: << I must confess, though, the mental picture of a hula-skirted man with a Caudron clutched to his bosom, sprinting through a parking lot in the rain, brings a smile to my lips! >> Heck, I think it's going to bring me nightmares! RK....spending the day getting for this weekend's Chino Warbird show, which is ON! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:03:26 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Re: IPMSUK Nats Message-ID: <008d01c14db7$445d3e80$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Lance boggles our minds: << I must confess, though, the mental picture of a hula-skirted man with a Caudron clutched to his bosom, sprinting through a parking lot in the rain, brings a smile to my lips! >> whoa! This and the DH4 fairy are my cartoon projects for the weekend... D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 16:09:03 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: IPMSUK Nats Message-ID: >From: LEONARDPeterL@aol.com > >I can't remember ever feeling less enthuiastic about the Nats. Peter: While the actual building that houses the English Nationals may be souless, I understand the surrounding area - Shropshire is really attractive and contains a great deal of historic significance. I think the earliest stages of the British industrial revolution took place here - Iron Bridge etc. I also understand that there is a good atmosphere at the Nationals themselves, no. FWIW, the location of the U.S. nationals was hardly "Attractive" being stuck out west of Chicago in an extremely bland suburb. The people I met there was what made the thing enjoyable though. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:00:08 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Memorial Flight SE5a Photos Message-ID: <011c01c14dbf$309ef2a0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Neil! You're welcome, mate. However you should worry about that AMS stroke you feel... what? who does PE flare cartridges for the SE5a in 1/72? Gosh I MUST know that too! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Eddy To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 12:21 PM Subject: [WWI] Memorial Flight SE5a Photos > Diego; > > Just out of weekend Lurk to thank you for reminding me of the Memorial > Flight SE5a photographs. I had forgotten that I had this site bookmarked a > while ago. This is one tasty collection of SE5a photos! I just wish we had > such a collection for all OT aircraft. (even French ones :) Also had a lot > of fun with the panorama function, enabling me to look at obscure bits such > as the flare rack....ooooh...I feel my first dose of AMS coming on.... > > All the Best > Neil E. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:01:04 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: SE5a Questions Message-ID: <012201c14dbf$51969580$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Pedro! > Talk to you tomorrow :-) I'll be here waiting! ;-) D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:02:13 +0200 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: MvR's Other Triplanes Message-ID: <000701c14dbf$7a9ebc00$1ca172d4@FRITZweb> Bob, I am certainly not a MvR expert and I'll never be one. But I can tell you the proven dates when MvR used which Triplane, according to his Luftkampfberichte ( lit. Air fight reports). I have taken these data from the german magazine 'Jet & Prop 3/92'. This listing seems to be complete, he does not flew any other triplane in combat. 152/17 description: Red upper wing, red cowling, red wheels, red tail ( his own words!) March 12th 1918, March 13th 1918 , March 18th 1918 477/17 description as above March 24th, 25th, 26th (2x), 27th, April 2nd, 7th (2x) 127/17 description as above March 27th, 28th, April 6th 425/17 painted red April 20th ( 2x) Photos: 152/17, well known. Delivered in standard Eiserne Kreuze on large white squares. Repainted on all positions to the usual white border, but still Eiserne Kreuze. Not proven, if ever repainted to Balkenkreuze. The order to change to Balkenkreuz was issued on March 20th 1918, but Jasta 11 seems to start to repaint that not until middle of April. 477/17 photo is doubtful. In Fokker DrI Aces GvW shows a DrI on page 28, stating to be 477/17. It has repainted, straight Balkenkreuze on all positions, thick proportions. The same photo can be seen in Rimell's DrI Special on page 15, but now it's 486/17. 127/17 not known to me 425/17 well known, see f.e. Dr I Aces, page 28 Eiserne Kreuze, small border. No sign of bad repaintings, very clean. and: DrI Aces, page 32, a new pic for me. GvW says it shows 425/17 also, but the print does not show the Militärnummer. But it's painted in one colour. Crosses are Balkenkreuze, very clean, all positions. No sign of sloppy repaintings, as usual shown. IMHO. considering the dates of the reports, all Triplanes of MvR had Eiserne Kreuze with small borders. All except 425/17 shows signs of repainting the white squares. Only 425/17 had repainted Balkenkreuze. Conclusion: Bob, if you take small bordered Eiserne Kreuze, you can't go wrong. All Triplane had them sometimes in theirs combat careers. Be careful with complete red painted turtledecks. The pic of 152/17 implies that, but Manfred does not mention it. Hans P.S. Ask GvW and the one and only Great DSA. He can't go wrong. > I am building Manfred von Richthofen's "other" Fokker Dr.I. I have narrowed > it down to either 477/17 or 127/17, both of which featured a red top wing, > rear fuselage (including rudder), cowl, and wheel coverings. I have > conflicting evidence on which aircraft carried the Patee(narrow waist) and > Balkankruse (straight) German crosses. The question is, which fuselage > carried which style of cross? Also, were the upper wing "Patee" style > crosses backed with the large white background ala most Dr.I's? So, what do > our list experten think? > TIA > ---------Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:12:46 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: Odp: RE: SE5a Questions Message-ID: <003f01c14dc0$f4e9b0e0$0200a8c0@x.pl> > I'll be here waiting! ;-) > D. Swords or guns? I'll be watching you! G. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:43:46 +0200 From: Ivan Subrt To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: SRAM comments? Message-ID: <01C14DD6.0E33CB20@plzena-22.dialup.vol.cz> Michael, Todd, thanks for propping me a little as I seem to be behind the schedule as ever. In his answer from September 2, 2001 Mr. Michal Benes Sram (sram@centrum.cz) says: "Mr. Subrt, please trust me, that I have discussed all problems in May (with Mr. Pearson) and in February (with Mr. Karr). I have apologized to both of them and Mr. Pearson even offered me a possible co-operation and sources for my work, respectively. Eventually, his reviews in esteemed e-zine Internet Modeler are a proof of our good relations. I do not understand fully, why this discussion developed another month after clarification of the whole issue. Unfortunately, I am not able to work with internet as often as I would need and so I have no time to read list messages and explore the origins of the whole issue. Also my English is not good enough to answer all angry emails, which now prevail over the positive ones in my mailbox." In further paragraphs Mr. Benes describes himself as a WWI German aviation buff, working in a design bureau with many employees being modellers. After seeing some WWII resin kits in the 1/144 scale, they asked him to try some WWI planes. Also he adds some economic details and insists that he is making no profit from his kits, as he has to sell them through a line of dealers and thus receives only a fraction of retail price. His point is that paying for original box art would increase his cost so much that he would not be able to continue. Later Mr. Sram admitts that his acting was faulty and repeats that he considers the copyright issue as solved now as all new box illustrations are reportedly copyright free. He also says he is preparing new kits after three months break and that he hopes they will make all enthusiasts happy. In the end he asks me to convey this clarification to the WWI list. My opinion: It is undisputable that Mr. Sram recognizes his errors in using copyrighted art without the permission of copyright holders now. I wonder if all issues are really settled and I hope we will hear from respective parties on recent situation. We should support Mr. Sram in preparing more kits and in making some reasonable profit, e.g. by selling directly through Internet, and I will be contacting him with this proposition. Those willing to offer ideas, sources or original art for new kits should probably contact him in clear simple English to minimize the risk of misunderstanding and subsequent problems. FWIW Cheers! Ivan Subrt http://www.czechia.com/silverbird "The air is our sea." Czech proverb ---------- Od: Todd Hayes[SMTP:thayes_52601@yahoo.com] Odesláno: 4. října 2001 0:33 Komu: Multiple recipients of list Předmět: [WWI] Re: SRAM comments? / was: AGO C.II Michael, I believe it was Ivan Subrt. Todd --- Michael Kendix wrote: > Speaking of the AGO C.II, someone on the list, > possibly Lubos Vinar, had > mentioned they'd received a correspondence from > SRAM. Has there been any > further development: for example, a translation of > the letter he sent to > Lubos? > > For those who are new to the list or don't recall, > SRAM kits had allegedly > used some other people's artwork, taken from artists > web sites without > permission, on the box art of their kits. These > artists allegedly included > our own Bob Pearson and Robert Karr: people who rely > on their artwork for a > living. > > Yours, too curiously, > > Michael > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3776 **********************