WWI Digest 3775 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: What The ?????? (and Jasta 11 Kette commanders) by "Karen & Keith Fainges" 2) RE: SE5a Questions by Shane Weier 3) Re: The Lozenge Deckels Project by Ray Boorman 4) RE: SE5a Questions by Ray Boorman 5) RE: SE5a Questions by Shane Weier 6) RE: New Eagle Strike Decals by "Limon3" 7) Re: The Lozenge Deckels Project by Rory Goodwin 8) Lost Fingers by "Kenneth Zelnick" 9) Re: New Update by john@huggins-leahey.com (John Huggins) 10) Re: New Update by Shane Weier 11) Re: New Update by john@huggins-leahey.com (John Huggins) 12) Looking for BE2c photos by Tim Linnell 13) Re: Looking for BE2c photos by "Bob Pearson" 14) Re: Looking for BE2c photos by Tim Linnell 15) Update tp the AFV BBQ site .... by "Ross Moorhouse" 16) RE: Lost Fingers by "dfernet0" 17) Re: Looking for BE2c photos by David Fleming 18) RE: Lost Fingers by "Gaston Graf" 19) RE: Lost Fingers by "dfernet0" 20) I'm back by Jan Vihonen 21) RE: SE5a Questions by "dfernet0" 22) RE: I'm back by "dfernet0" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 12:35:10 +1000 From: "Karen & Keith Fainges" To: Subject: Re: What The ?????? (and Jasta 11 Kette commanders) Message-ID: Or where is Brazil in the Davis Cup Another Banana Bender Keith Proud to Support the Reds, Strikers, Bulls, Lions and The Broncos - Not in any necessary order -----Original Message----- From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of Shane Weier Sent: Friday, 5 October 2001 8:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WWI] Re: What The ?????? (and Jasta 11 Kette commanders) Marcio says: > What? Sorry, I've been too busy following the sucess of > Gustavo Kuerten Oh. Sorry. Where did he come in the US Open ? ;-) Shane ***************************************************************** ***** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ***************************************************************** ***** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 12:44:37 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: SE5a Questions Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCD5DB@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Neil, > Back at work after two days off with the flu. I've started > work on my Blue > Max SE5a and am in the preparatory/planning stage - My first > questions are > regarding the access/observation cut-out on the right side of > the fuselage > forward of the cockpit (from the pilots perspective). Did this have a > perspex/glass/ clear cover? A clear cover - same stuff as used for the windscreen probably > Secondly, what was revealed through the > cut-out, was it the rear of the engine, or the cockpit > instrument panel? Nothing is *revealed* through it really, since it appears to be dirty and fogged in most cases. *I* think it's there merely to let light in so the pilot could see the instruments which are well underneath the cowl. > Thirdly, was this feature common to all SE5a's? AFAIK > Fourth, Are there any > photographs around showing the view through this port? In the SE-5a Datafile special, and I also have some dozens of photos taken of the machine at AWM. For the cost of your snailmail address I'll send you a duplicate photo or two - no scanner so we get to do it the old fashioned way. > I intend to cut out > and install this panel, so any information my wise and > knowledgeable fellow > Listees have will be gratefully received. I did so on my review kit - but IIRC it isn't mentioned in the review (on the SMO site) because I wasn't supposed to do it other than OoB. I also cut out and detailed the "D" shaped aperture under the engine rear, adding the engine, oil tank and piping plus cross bracing and what not that is revealed within. Also not shown in the review, for the same reason. For those tempted to look - please discount the *colour* the "PC.10" appears, which is due to the scanner operator at SMO, not me :-( Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:55:04 -0700 From: Ray Boorman To: Subject: Re: The Lozenge Deckels Project Message-ID: <20011005025634.UHYS26699.priv-edtnes27-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> Another way to do this is to take a photo of whats included. Its not detailed enough to be called a copy but does show what was included. If you were doing side by side comparisons with a review this could never ever be construed as copyright infringement. They could complain about the review, but hey you sell something to the public you have to let the public have opinions. Ray - Who is kicking himself for listening to Bob and his build ships for a change brainwashing routine ;0) On Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:15:49 -0400 (EDT), Bob Pearson wrote: >Scans of the parts including decals and instructions to my mind are >fair >game for a review as they show exactly what is included. A company >that puts >out a decent product should have no problem with what is shown, as it >increases sales to their product if it is worthy. > >People are forgetting that Jastagate was not about showing the >decals, it >was about including the entire documentation package for the A/G >Jasta 5 >decals. This was akin to putting up an entire book, rather than a >sample >page from a review. If we had reviewed them, we would possibly have >shown >one of the pages to enable the potential buyer to determine for >themselves >whether it is a worthwhile buy rather than spending X amount sight >unseen. > >Bob Pearson >Managing Editor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:57:50 -0700 From: Ray Boorman To: Subject: RE: SE5a Questions Message-ID: <20011005030319.QTCL790.priv-edtnes10-hme0.telusplanet.net@ray> On Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:46:38 -0400 (EDT), Shane Weier wrote: >For those tempted to look - please discount the *colour* the "PC.10" >appears, which is due to the scanner operator at SMO, not me :-( > >Shane Typical trust an Aussie to spread the blame around!!! ;0) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:10:09 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: SE5a Questions Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCD5DD@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Ray, > >For those tempted to look - please discount the *colour* the "PC.10" > >appears, which is due to the scanner operator at SMO, not me :-( > > > > Typical trust an Aussie to spread the blame around!!! ;0) Ha ha. For once I can easily prove it *wasn't* me since the numerous parts of that damned thing are available for distribution to interested parties, courtesy of my clumsiness and the hardness of Ben Flood's brick front stairs. (I used Testors Olive Drab 34087 - which doesn't look much like the scans ! Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:17:37 -0700 From: "Limon3" To: Subject: RE: New Eagle Strike Decals Message-ID: <002101c14d4c$49ff35c0$3113d7ce@i7e2z6> Hi Rick, Thanks for the heads up. I'd be very interested to see what E.S. does for the 2nd Alby set. I got a chance to actually fondle the plastic while waiting for a jury selection call, and the DII is very, very nice. No need to wait for a Profi version with this puppy. Gabe ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Milas To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: [WWI] RE: New Eagle Strike Decals > Hi Gabe, > I believe the reason that the DVII decals are called part 2, is because the > Albatross decals are part 1. Together they form parts 1 and 2 of the Flying > Circus series. Hopefully there will be more. In fact, if I can remember back > to the nationals this summer, I believe there was art work for a second > Albatross set. Glad to here you got the DII. I saw the contents at the hobby > show in Chicago in September. I was impressed. I haven't bought mine yet > since I'm waiting for the profi-pack. However, I like the basic kit so much > I may have to buy one of those too. > Rick Milas > > > >From: "Limon3" > >Reply-To: wwi@wwi-models.org > >To: Multiple recipients of list > >Subject: [WWI] RE: New Eagle Strike Decals > >Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:19:35 -0400 (EDT) > > > >I just got the Alby and DVII Eagle Strike decals, along with the new Alb. > >DII by Eduard. The decals for the DVII look very interesting, including a > >couple of planes that I haven't seen before. As an interesting aside, the > >DVII decals say "part 2," any- > >one seen Part 1? The Alb. DII looks really good, another fine offering > >from > >Eduard. I got mine from Barry at Rosemont, great service. > >Gabe > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Graham Hunter > >To: Multiple recipients of list > >Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 8:22 AM > >Subject: [WWI] RE: New Eagle Strike Decals > > > > > > > According to my local Plastic Pusher Aeromaster are now defunct and > >Eagle > > > Strike is taking over. So I would expect we will see good things from ES > >in > > > the near future. > > > > > > Graham H. > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:29:20 -0700 From: Rory Goodwin To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: The Lozenge Deckels Project Message-ID: <3BBD3720.F8138E82@earthlink.net> Stefen, Thanks for the vote of confidence. However, I was in fact volunteering scans of all my decal sheets for another listmember with more than my passing acquaintance with lozenge and sufficient references & relationships (at museums, etc.) to make a proper go of it. Not trying to weasel out of it, but I just don't have the knowledge or resources of some of the folks on this list. If you want to know about Russian Civil War aviation, I might be able to help. I've also been kicking around the subject of French colors with Jim Landon. Light Green is actually metallic mint green (based on original fabric at the San Diego Aerospace Museum)... stefenk wrote: > Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:37:11 +1000, Shane Weier > in response to Rory Goodwin's offer to undertake a visual lozenge decal > comparative "review" cautioned: > > "Notwithstanding the good intentions displayed here, I'd be inclined to ask > permission of the manufacturers of any currently available decals *before* > putting a scan up. I *know* that a scan will provide nothing usefull to > anyone trying to pirate the manufacturers original work BUT it strikes me as > a courtesy which should be extended anyway." > > I believe that the fair use doctrine applies to the contemplated, > noncommercial project (well worth the effort, BTW) and that there is, > therefore, no legal requirement to obtain permission in advance. Nor > should, I think, the rights of reviewing be in any way infringed by asking > for prior permission to publish such scans. Such a prepublication courtesy > suggests that the manufacturers have the right of veto in this regard, and > they do not. > > Commercial enterprises across the Web--e.g., Hannants, GreatModels, > ModelingMadness, etc.--and traditional periodical publishers such as Scale > Aviation Modelling routinely reproduce decal sheets or profiles, box art, > and sprues. I seriously doubt whether these enterprises routinely ask > permission to reproduce these items. Perhaps someone involved on the List > can advise the procedure in place at Internet Modeler and whether it is > based on legal opinion. > > I think the current comparative review is materially different from the > reproduction of profiles or other aviation art or even of period photographs > from either private collections or other published work since even in a > noncommerical context the mere abilitiy *to view* these images has a > potentially negative effect on the compensation to be derived from the works > involved in either creating or distributing them. > > The courtesy that should--and perhaps must--be extended to the producers of > the decals is, foremost, to have them review the scans for accuracy, fair > presentation of their product with respect to those of competitors, and, > perhaps, an offer to comment on these issues. Second, for the sake both of > manufacturers and the viewers of the comparison, soliciting information on > the sources that were used in making the decals can be elicited. > > Although as Shane suggests a screen-resolution scan should be quite useless > for the purposes of piracy (not the sole conern of copyright infringement), > a strikethrough or some other added flaw can ensure that this is so. > Nonetheless, if an oversensitivy about issues of copyright infringement > makes posting of the project results not feasible on the List host, another > site can be sought. > > In the meantime, I can offer to provide scans of the Eagle Strike suite. > Rory, please contact me off-List for technical requirements. > Regards, > Stefen > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today > Only $9.95 per month! > http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:52:11 -0500 From: "Kenneth Zelnick" To: Subject: Lost Fingers Message-ID: <003301c14d59$7efc8130$482bb4d0@zelnick> D. asked: >Speaking of lost fingers... wich was the WW1 pilot who crashed on his plane >once he was shot on the thumb, so losing control of his craft? I seem to remember reading somewhere that Lufberry's thumb was shot off before he jumped / fell from his airplane. This may have been written in Rickenbacker's _Fighting the Flying Circus_. Of course, I may be (and probably am) confused. Can anybody back me up on this? Ken Zelnick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 00:29:17 -0600 From: john@huggins-leahey.com (John Huggins) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: New Update Message-ID: >John, > >Won't the neighbors get upset when you start the engine on that thing? How >about when you start taxiing it down the street? ;) > >Great job! > >Ken Zelnick They don't complain about the noise or smell of Caster oil because I don't complain about the noise from the Harley Hog, steam railroad (n scale builder) or all the vintage tractor former neighbor who collected Ertl tractors) noises. Actually, I only start it with a muffler installed and on Sunday afternoons when the Cowboys are winning. That way, the noise from the game covers it up. Thanks for the comments. John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:35:15 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: New Update Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7102BCD5E5@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> John says: > > Actually, I only start it with a muffler installed and on Sunday > afternoons when the Cowboys are winning. That ought to save fuel.................... Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 International ++61 7 38338042 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 01:16:28 -0600 From: john@huggins-leahey.com (John Huggins) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: New Update Message-ID: >John says: > >> >> Actually, I only start it with a muffler installed and on Sunday >> afternoons when the Cowboys are winning. > >That ought to save fuel.................... > >Shane I have already saved enough to purchase a Gotha G.IV and by this weekend, I should have enough for a Fokker D.VII or two. JP ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:48:43 +0100 From: Tim Linnell To: Subject: Looking for BE2c photos Message-ID: <010EF7D56E81D311AF850090273C43FE033E7267@eden.recorders.eurotherm.co.uk> Hi All Does anyone know of the existence of any photographs of BE2c 3999 (i.e. the first training aircraft at Cranwell)? Cheers Tim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 00:54:55 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Looking for BE2c photos Message-ID: <3BB130740019F304@mail.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) No, but upon looking in the Sturtivant/Page RNAS volume I see that a S/L Linnell had a bit of an accident in it .. relative? Have you tried contacting Stuart Leslie? If he doesn't know of any photos I can't think who would Regards, Bob Pearson ---------- >From: Tim Linnell >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WWI] Looking for BE2c photos >Date: Fri, Oct 5, 2001, 12:49 am > > Hi All > > Does anyone know of the existence of any photographs of BE2c 3999 (i.e. the > first training aircraft at Cranwell)? > > Cheers > > Tim > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:13:12 +0100 From: Tim Linnell To: Subject: Re: Looking for BE2c photos Message-ID: <010EF7D56E81D311AF850090273C43FE033E726A@eden.recorders.eurotherm.co.uk> Hi Bob Thanks for your note. The Linnell you mention is not a relative - the Linnells in my family studiously avoided active service in either World War! The connection is again Forster Maynard (his mother was a Linnell) as mentioned previously on the WWI list, who flew 3999 into Cranwell in 1915 marking the first landing of any aircraft there. I've an Aeroclub BE2c kit which I want eventually make up in the form something associated with Maynard. An alternative is 2737 which he flew in an anti-zeppelin raid from Cranwell, which I mention on the off chance you know of any related photos. Cheers Tim > No, but upon looking in the Sturtivant/Page RNAS volume I see > that a S/L > Linnell had a bit of an accident in it .. relative? > > Have you tried contacting Stuart Leslie? If he doesn't know > of any photos I > can't think who would > > Regards, > Bob Pearson > > ---------- > >From: Tim Linnell > >To: Multiple recipients of list > >Subject: [WWI] Looking for BE2c photos > >Date: Fri, Oct 5, 2001, 12:49 am > > > > > Hi All > > > > Does anyone know of the existence of any photographs of > BE2c 3999 (i.e. the > > first training aircraft at Cranwell)? > > > > Cheers > > > > Tim > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:17:43 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Update tp the AFV BBQ site .... Message-ID: <000b01c14d76$3a7c7840$4ec8223f@umber> Hi all, Keith Fainges has sent in photos of A7V "Mephisto" German Anti Tank rifle Dallas's medals. These can be seen on the "resources" page at the BBQ site http://www.geocities.com/y_future/ Big thanks to Keith for taking these photos too. :) Cheers Ross ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:12:50 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Lost Fingers Message-ID: <007401c14d86$4a1dade0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Ken Yes, Lufbery seems to ring a bell... maybe other list memeber can confirm this? ( I don't have a copy of Rickenbacker's book). D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth Zelnick To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 1:53 AM Subject: [WWI] Lost Fingers > D. asked: > > >Speaking of lost fingers... wich was the WW1 pilot who crashed on his plane > >once he was shot on the thumb, so losing control of his craft? > > I seem to remember reading somewhere that Lufberry's thumb was shot off > before he jumped / fell from his airplane. This may have been written in > Rickenbacker's _Fighting the Flying Circus_. > > Of course, I may be (and probably am) confused. Can anybody back me up on > this? > > Ken Zelnick > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 11:05:01 +0100 From: David Fleming To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Looking for BE2c photos Message-ID: <3BBD85CD.79B3E5FB@dial.pipex.com> Tim Linnell wrote: > Hi All > > Does anyone know of the existence of any photographs of BE2c 3999 (i.e. the > first training aircraft at Cranwell)? > There is one in Datafile 42, page 16. Overall CDL, union jack rudder marking, and what appear to be roundels on the upper wing. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 12:12:45 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: RE: Lost Fingers Message-ID: I haven't read Eddies book completely because I hate it to read long textes on screen but I remember to have read about Lufberrys thumb at the site that holds "Fighting the Flying Circus". You can find it here: http://www.wtj.com/archives/ Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > > D. asked: > > >Speaking of lost fingers... wich was the WW1 pilot who crashed > on his plane > >once he was shot on the thumb, so losing control of his craft? > > I seem to remember reading somewhere that Lufberry's thumb was shot off > before he jumped / fell from his airplane. This may have been written in > Rickenbacker's _Fighting the Flying Circus_. > > Of course, I may be (and probably am) confused. Can anybody back me up on > this? > > Ken Zelnick > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:29:35 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Lost Fingers Message-ID: <009701c14d88$a11fee80$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Thanks, Gasterix! Finally, I've found it. I quote: "His machine had received a flaming bullet in the fuel tank. The same bullet evidently cut away the thumb of his right hand as it clasped the joystick. The next instant the little craft was but one mass of flame, from which there was no means of escape." Horrible. D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gaston Graf To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 7:14 AM Subject: [WWI] RE: Lost Fingers > I haven't read Eddies book completely because I hate it to read long textes > on screen but I remember to have read about Lufberrys thumb at the site that > holds "Fighting the Flying Circus". You can find it here: > http://www.wtj.com/archives/ > > Gaston Graf > (ggraf@vo.lu) > Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: > http://www.jastaboelcke.de > > > > > D. asked: > > > > >Speaking of lost fingers... wich was the WW1 pilot who crashed > > on his plane > > >once he was shot on the thumb, so losing control of his craft? > > > > I seem to remember reading somewhere that Lufberry's thumb was shot off > > before he jumped / fell from his airplane. This may have been written in > > Rickenbacker's _Fighting the Flying Circus_. > > > > Of course, I may be (and probably am) confused. Can anybody back me up on > > this? > > > > Ken Zelnick > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 13:34:08 +0300 From: Jan Vihonen To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: I'm back Message-ID: <3BBD8CA0.ED518925@helsinki.fi> Dear all. As stated in the subject line, I'm back. Jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:42:37 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: SE5a Questions Message-ID: <009a01c14d8a$9752dbe0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Neil wrote: > My first questions are > regarding the access/observation cut-out on the right side of the fuselage > forward of the cockpit (from the pilots perspective). Did this have a > perspex/glass/ clear cover? Yes. Take a look at: http://memorial.flight.free.fr/SE5A.html and choose "cockpit" or "vue Panoramique" > Secondly, what was revealed through the > cut-out, was it the rear of the engine, or the cockpit instrument panel? As Shane pointed, I guess that it was a way to light the instrument panel. Look at: http://memorial.flight.free.fr/gallery/Se5/cok12.jpg to see how it looked from outside. > Thirdly, was this feature common to all SE5a's? Yes. > Fourth, Are there any > photographs around showing the view through this port? Check all the pictures on the Memorial Flight website, as they are very close to those appearing on the SE5a special. > Neil E. > (Albatros finito!) Pictures! Pictures! D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:47:06 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: I'm back Message-ID: <00a401c14d8b$134eaa80$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Welcome back,Jan! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Vihonen To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 7:37 AM Subject: [WWI] I'm back > Dear all. > > As stated in the subject line, I'm back. > > Jan > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3775 **********************