WWI Digest 3716 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: largest quantity built by "Michael Kendix" 2) RE: new toys: Junkers anf fokker by Volker Haeusler 3) RE: largest quantity built by Volker Haeusler 4) Re: I'll try again..... by LEONARDPeterL@aol.com 5) Re: Future/Kleer/Shine Magic by "Michael Kendix" 6) RE: largest quantity built by "Michael Kendix" 7) RE: largest quantity built by Volker Haeusler 8) Re: Future/Kleer/Shine Magic by Nigel Cheffers-Heard 9) Have Collection; Will Travel by Dennis Ugulano 10) RE: largest quantity built by Volker Haeusler 11) Re: Poison Gas by Mark Miller 12) Re: Voss Cowl and let the flaming begin. by "Mark Shannon" 13) RE: largest quantity built by Volker Haeusler 14) Re: Shine Magic by "Laskodi" 15) Solvent alcohols (was Future/Shine Magic/Klear) by "Mark Shannon" 16) Belgian Nieuport Question by "Muth and Zulick" 17) Fwd: [tcah] How Columbus must have felt.... by MAnde72343@aol.com 18) RE: largest quantity built by "Grzegorz Mazurowski" 19) Announcements by Allan Wright 20) Re: Belgian Nieuports by "Mark Shannon" 21) Re: Poison Gas by "Dale Sebring" 22) RE: largest quantity built by Volker Haeusler 23) Re: Belgian Nieuport Question by "mdf@mars.ark.com" 24) RE: largest quantity built by "mdf@mars.ark.com" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:31:23 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: largest quantity built Message-ID: Neil: I wasn't really asking for "votes":). Can you say how many? For example, there were about 34,000 Il-2's made, of various types. Michael >From: Crawford Neil >Reply-To: wwi@wwi-models.org >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WWI] RE: largest quantity built >Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:27:23 -0400 (EDT) > >OK just trying;-), but I'll still vote for the Spad 7, and the Cessna 172 >in >the other category. >/Neil C. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Kendix [mailto:mkendix@hotmail.com] > > Sent: den 13 september 2001 15:19 > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: [WWI] RE: largest quantity built > > > > > > Sorry:). No, I would count different SPADs (13, 16, 11, 7) > > as different. > > For example, I wouldn't aggregate all Ilyushins or Sopwiths. > > Fokker D.VII > > would be an example of a single "aeroplane". > > > > Michael > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:32:46 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: new toys: Junkers anf fokker Message-ID: Neil said: "I read here, a while back, that you press alu-foil onto one of the good surfaces, then you paint the back-side of the foil with epoxy (I think). You can then peel it off and add where necessary. Something like that. I think I would use milliput or CA instead of epoxy. I tink it was Hans or Volker who knew how to do this. /Neil C." Yep, that was me. But no epoxy: USe either white glue (thinned down with wate - thatīs what I used in the first instance) or standard gloss or matt lacquer. However, I see a small problem in this instance: The surface of the warbirds/Rareplanes Junkers is *so fine* that it will be difficult to replicate that. As for the cockpit sidewalls, I used some *very* thin plasticard that I scribed with the required number of parallel lines in my D I (which actually is in the galleries). looks quite convincing from the outside to me. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:34:15 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: largest quantity built Message-ID: Michael, you had "a couple of questions. 1. Which on topic aeroplane was built in the largest quantity? I would count all types as one; e.g all Fokker D.VII's, all Sopwith Strutters, all Albatros D.III's etc. 2. Which off-topic aeroplane was built in the largest quantity? Shtormovik (Il-2)? Michael" First one: I think the SPAD XIII (with around 8.500 a/c build) achieved the highest production figure for a WW I aircraft - Iīm quite sure that I read that somewhere, but canīt remember where. Second one: Yes, the Il 2 (36 136 a/c) is the aircraft with the highest production ever (before the fall of the Soviet Union, numbers as high as 55.000 had been claimed, but they are not correct). Second highest should be the Bf% with around 33000 examples (including later Czech and Spanish production). As for biplanes, the highest number build comes with the Polikarpov Po-2/U-2 (build from 1928 to 1955 (!), numbers between 32000 and 33600 (including Polish manufacture), if the last figure is true, it might just beat the 109.... Volker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:34:01 EDT From: LEONARDPeterL@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: I'll try again..... Message-ID: <130.17b741f.28d20fc9@aol.com> In a message dated 13/09/01 14:23:37 GMT Daylight Time, aew@mustang.sr.unh.edu writes: << If we're going to flame each other, I'd rather we do it over the color of Voss' cowling. >> Don't get me started on THAT one! Someone said' I think it was the mayor of NY, that the best thing we can do to show these people what we are made of is to go about our daily lives as near to normal as possible in the circumstances. Easy for me to say, it's not my country which has been attacked, but listen to Al, Webmaster par excelence and a good friend to us all. cheers Peter L ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:38:42 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Future/Kleer/Shine Magic Message-ID: >From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard > >Use IPA and Distilled water, it thins acrylic paints much more >predictably than with tap water. Right, I use just isopropyl alcohol from the bottle, which is 70% alcohol. >Incidentally, Tamiya "acrylics" are in fact latex based. So the whole > >chemistry of these paints is a bit hit and miss, since the actual > >constitution is not published. Of all the paints I've tried to brush, Tamiya was the most hopeless. Just what does one use for thinner to airbrush them, aside from their own "Tamiya thnnier". I'm sure I smell alcohol in those paints, so is that a decent thinner? >As for brushing Future, use single strokes with the widest, most >expensive brush you can afford, preferably sable mixture. The better >the brush, the easier it is to get brilliant results. There is >obviously a balance here between expensive brushes and airbrushing. >You have to decide that. >Wash the brush immediately, and remember that a lot of Future soaks >up the bristles inside the ferrule. So when you think you have washed >it enough, wash it that much again. I have a large dedicated brush with light coloured bristles. Immediately I've finished brushing, it goes under the hot tap with soap. it's lasted a while. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:40:29 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: largest quantity built Message-ID: Volker: Much obliged. Thanks Michael >From: Volker Haeusler > >First one: I think the SPAD XIII (with around 8.500 a/c build) achieved the >highest production figure for a WW I aircraft - Iīm quite sure that I read >that somewhere, but canīt remember where. > >Second one: > >Yes, the Il 2 (36 136 a/c) is the aircraft with the highest production ever >(before the fall of the Soviet Union, numbers as high as 55.000 had been >claimed, but they are not correct). Second highest should be the Bf% with >around 33000 examples (including later Czech and Spanish production). > >As for biplanes, the highest number build comes with the Polikarpov >Po-2/U-2 >(build from 1928 to 1955 (!), numbers between 32000 and 33600 (including >Polish manufacture), if the last figure is true, it might just beat the >109.... > >Volker > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:48:24 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: largest quantity built Message-ID: Neil also mentioned " and the Cessna 172 in the other category." and that might be true, but Iīm not aware of how many of these ahave actually been build. BTW, The Il 2 (an Po 2) claim comes from Gunstonīs "Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft 1875 -1995", which is a wonderful book well worth having. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:49:28 +0000 From: Nigel Cheffers-Heard To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Future/Kleer/Shine Magic Message-ID: >Of all the paints I've tried to brush, Tamiya was the most hopeless. Just >what does one use for thinner to airbrush them, aside from their own "Tamiya >thnnier". I'm sure I smell alcohol in those paints, so is that a decent >thinner? Tamiya thinner is about 70% Propan-2-ol (also called Isopropyl Alcohol) and the rest water, with a dash of wetting agent. So you can make your own with IPA and Distilled water. The real problem with tap water is it has a relatively large amount of air dissolved in it, and the Tamiya paint reacts with it to start setting off in the thinned down mixture. This gives the effect of thinned mixtures setting FASTER than unthinned. Strange. If you have to use tap water, boil it and cool it. Works much better that way, and you can even use the excess to make a pot of tea while you contemplate your next move and the rest cools... If you want to add wetting agent (I've never felt the need to) you can buy it in photographic shops that sell processing chemicals. One DROP in a litre is loads. N -- Nigel Cheffers-Heard photography + design tel: +44 (0)1392 87 58 57 fax: +44 (0)1392 87 74 97 mobile: 0771 261 4514 nigelch@cheffers.co.uk www.cheffers.co.uk Laburnums, Bridge Hill Topsham, Exeter EX3 0QQ, UK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:42:38 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Have Collection; Will Travel Message-ID: <200109130842_MC3-DFAC-1B5A@compuserve.com> Everyone, A few weeks back I asked for suggestions on how to display a collection of models. I received some excellent ideas and will now have the opportunity to use these suggestions. On Sunday, Oct, 14, the Silver Wings Chapter of the IPMS will hold their annual contest in Elk Grove, Calif. (30 miles south of Sacramento). I have been invited to bring all 110 WW1 kits for display at the contest. A very great privilege in my opinion. I have attended their contest for over 15 years and some of us have watched our children go from strollers to very good model builders. The also recognize that WW1 actually took place and always have a "biwing" category. So, if you are in the area, come on over and let's meet. Details about the contest are available from me or Rick, our librarian. Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://ronnieuggie.com/uggie/dju.htm Page Revised 9/08/01 "Each modeler will rise to their own level of masochism." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:00:29 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: largest quantity built Message-ID: Having a look in the net, I found: http://www.airspacemag.com/ASM/Mag/Index/1996/FM/bten.html where they claim "nearly 37000 Cessna 172īs being build, with production reopening soon", so it might be VERY close. They also claim "more than 36000 An-2īs" over there, but that seems to be wrong, as Gunston (also looking on Polish and Chinese license production) arrives at only half that number - but that still would make the AN-2 the "airliner" (well, kind off...) build in the largest number... Volker ------------------------------ Date: 13 Sep 2001 06:59:41 -0700 From: Mark Miller To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Poison Gas Message-ID: <20010913135941.20063.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> On Thu, 13 September 2001, Allan Wright wrote: > (btw the CIA knew what was up before it happened as they were already intercepting much the groups communications - and the airliner that missed its target was shot down - but both stories have since been suppressed. In addition F-117's may have already hit Afghanistan...) > > Mike, I do believe you're talking out your ass here. OK then Damn right he is I personaly think that this is a bull**** But - beyond that- if the Government did suppress it they didn't need to bother. We are entering some very difficult times now. and we need to be ready to make some painful choices. I think the American public understands this. If they could shoot down that airliner - they should have - I doubt any of the poor souls who were onboard would have disagreed. And we WISH it was US forces bombing Afganistan. And as for "drivel" F*** YOU PAL Pick any three major Buildings In whatever nation you are from - level them to the ground and place 1000's of dead people under them and see how you feel. I think the Americans on this list have been relativly moderate in response to this situation - Sure - we're venting, nobody "realy" wants to turn the middleast into a glowing radioactive pile of rubble. And you can be sure the American Government will do there best to keep Innocents safe - as recent history proves. But we all know that despite any effort - innocent people will die, they always do. The days of the "kinder gentler" America are OVER. consider this I have three sons - and am terrified that they might have to fight a war, but I would ... understand I NEVER thought I would feel this way. Mark Miller Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:01:58 -0500 From: "Mark Shannon" To: Subject: Re: Voss Cowl and let the flaming begin. Message-ID: I think that the cowl on Voss's plane was a grey color very similar to what would be called RLM 02 later. The panels painted in this color are from the nose back along the 160 hp Mercedes in-line engine to a point just in front of the machine gun breeches. This color has some amazing properties, as it appears very olive green relative to a neutral gray, yet appears tannish next to a purer yellow-green range color, and slate gray next to the contrasting yellowish varnished wood just under these cowl panels. If taken in contrast with the other colors of the plane, as a whole, it looks like a typical dingy gray, but if the plane is set next to a silbergrau Pfalz, for example, it looks like it has a green cowl. Of course, the bright red spinner tones down this effect. I don't know where anyone could get the idea that the cowl of Voss's plane was yellow, and what is this face design people keep mentioning? The only markings besides the national crosses are the white tail and white chord-wise bands on the wings, and the three hearts on each side and the fuselage turtledeck behind the cockpit, along with the swastika in a laurel wreath marking that overlaps the white surround of the fuselage crosses. What's the big deal? ;{) .Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:11:31 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: largest quantity built Message-ID: and finally, at http://members.aol.com/brianludd/buzz/93/1293.htm they claim: THE WORLD'S MOST PRODUCED AIRCRAFT Ilyushin IL-2 and Il-10 Sturmovik 41,400 Yakovlev Yak -1, -3, -7 and -9 37,000 Messerschmitt Me 109 33,000 Cessna 172 27,200 Lavochkin La-5, -7 26,000 Supermarine Spitfire 22,890 North American AT-6/SNJ 21,000 Focke-Wulf Fw 190 20,200 Polikarpov Po-2 20,000 Consolidated-Vultee B-24 17,403 Cessna 182 17,300 Republic P-47 15,660 North American P-51 15,586 Curtiss P-36/P-40 15,100 Junkers Ju 88 14,700 Hawker Hurricane 14,231 Piper J-3 Cub 14,125 Douglas DC-3/C-47/RD-4 13,300 Boeing B-17 12,731 Chance-Vought F4U 12,571 where - the Il 2 number obviously is to high (including the Il-10) - the Yakīs include more than one aircraft - the Po/U-2 figures were not really known at that time, it seems - they did not get far enough down to show an OT aircraft... Volker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:16:22 -0700 From: "Laskodi" To: "WWI List Post" Subject: Re: Shine Magic Message-ID: <001501c13c5e$ac223580$263819d0@f4hn201> Warning to our overseas modeling friends. The international equivalents of Future from the USA are not exactly the same. Shine Magic for example does not possess all the same outstanding qualities as Future! And yes, SM is a bit cloudy in the bottle unlike Future which is clear. They can all be used with success, but Future (from the USA) is by far superior. If you have friends that travel to the US just have them bring back a bottle, it will last you forever! HTH --------Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:30:12 -0500 From: "Mark Shannon" To: Subject: Solvent alcohols (was Future/Shine Magic/Klear) Message-ID: Just to clarify. Isopropyl alcohol, isopropanol, 2-propyl alcohol, 2-propanol, all describe the same compound. In the US it is easily available in two forms - Rubbing Alcohol which is a 70% solution of the alcohol with distilled water, and 99% Isopropyl. If you want something like what was described as Tamiya Thinner (which I cannot confirm the description), then just use a bottle of the Rubbing Alcohol and add a single drop of a pure liquid soap like Ivory to the bottle (maybe a little more) and dedicate the bottle to thinner. Denatured Alcohol is a different animal. It is Ethyl Alcohol (ethanol, grain alcohol, sometimes just called alcohol because it is the one you drink), that has had methanol (methyl alcohol, wood alcohol) added to render it non-drinkable. Both are toxic if drunk. The Methyl Alcohol in the Denatured alcohol will first cause blindness at relatively low ingestions (Unscrupulous dealers have sold cheap 'brand name' whiskey in areas of shortage like war zones that were bottles refilled with denatured alcohol after the real 'good stuff' was decanted off. This appears to be the story in Estonia in just the last week - a tragic scandal that was just starting to be big news when the events of Tuesday occurred). Higher doses cause liver and kidney failure, and death within a short time. Isopropanol is a little less toxic, mainly because the body doesn't know what to do with it since it is 'branched'. The effects on the body are similar to those of chronic heavy drinking, just at much lower doses and over a shorter time. n-Butyl Alcohol is another common paint solvent. It's smell is distinctive and somewhat overpowering - sickly sweet and institutional cleaner type, hard to describe but not forgotten once experienced. I think Tamiya paints use this in their base formulations, as they are different from other acrylic types. I think that the dilute level of n-Butanol in the paint is what gives them their distinctive smell. (Dilute smells and pure smells can be very different in perception - cooking onions and garlic both give off a dilute level of the same compound used to odorize natural gas.) .Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:30:55 -0400 From: "Muth and Zulick" To: Subject: Belgian Nieuport Question Message-ID: <005001c13c69$155047e0$0100005a@ptd.net> Well, having almost finished an offtopic airplane, I"m ready to dive back into 1/48. Next up is the Eduard Nieuport 11. I want to do the plane in Belgian markings. There a nice photo of it in Nieuport Aces showing 2 color camo with the underneath color on the wings outlining the top. My questions are as follows: 1. Clear Doped Linen, Light Blue or Silver for the underneath wing and outline? 2. Dark Green and Light Green for the camo or Dark Green and Brown? 3. Finally, the Lewis gun rests on a semi-circle on the top wing, I stink at stretching sprue...anyone know of a way to easily make one of these or have a spare from some kit? Thanks Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:28:04 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Fwd: [tcah] How Columbus must have felt.... Message-ID: <3b.1a229deb.28d22a84@aol.com> --part1_3b.1a229deb.28d22a84_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I apologize for the ot content, I had vowed to keep all future postings OT, but I thought this note, from my local club, and by fellow modeler Bob Steinbrunn, would interest some of you. Merrill --part1_3b.1a229deb.28d22a84_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-ye01.mx.aol.com (rly-ye01.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.198]) by air-ye04.mail.aol.com (v80.26) with ESMTP id MAILINYE42-0913104614; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:46:14 -0400 Received: from n4.groups.yahoo.com (n4.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.54]) by rly-ye01.mx.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYE11-0913104539; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:45:39 -0400 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2668273-455-1000392290-Mande72343=aol.com@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.52] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2001 14:44:50 -0000 X-Sender: BSteinIPMS@aol.com X-Apparently-To: tcah@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 13 Sep 2001 14:44:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 88725 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2001 14:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Sep 2001 14:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d09.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.41) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Sep 2001 14:43:04 -0000 Received: from BSteinIPMS@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id 3.cb.1607c9cc (3868) for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: tcah@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list tcah@yahoogroups.com; contact tcah-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list tcah@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:38:38 EDT Reply-To: tcah@yahoogroups.com Subject: [tcah] How Columbus must have felt.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been asked to expand on my post of yesterday, so here 'tis: During these tragic and trying days all civil aircraft have been grounded with the exception of those providing Emergency Medical Services. This usually means helicopters, and this means me. I fly an Agusta A-109 high-speed, twin-turbine, retractable landing gear, fully-instrumented, autopilot and flight director-equipped, filled-with-more-computers-than-I-know-what-to-do-with medical helicopter. This is one of four Agustas my hospital in Minneapolis provides to those in need over a five-state area. During this no-fly period, we are allowed to continue to fly but need a special authorization from Minneapolis Air Route Traffic Control Center, the long-range radar facility. We have to provide detailed information on routes, times, altitudes, aircraft call sign, transponder code, crew names and Social Security numbers, and several other items. We are required to remain in radio and radar contact for the entire time of flight. I had an emergency flight Tuesday night at midnight, and after phoning in and receiving my authorization, we launched into clear night skies. The Minneapolis downtown is very striking and beautiful at night: tall glass buildings, a mixture of modern and period architecture, and a veritable sea of lights everywhere. Everywhere, that is, except in the sky. Normally I spend most of my time scanning for other air traffic in this busy terminal area, and under normal circumstances there are two parallel lines of landing lights, sometimes 20 miles long, lining up for the parallel runways 30 Left and 30 Right at Minneapolis International Airport. Not so Tuesday night. The sky was absolutely empty. In 35 years of flying I have *never* seen such an empty sky, not even over the Central Highlands of Vietnam. It was both spooky and eerie, and very disconcerting. Upon examining my feelings I realized with a start that I was in my "combat pilot" mindset, something I haven't found necessary for the last 30 years. I was somewhat saddened by this realization, but knew it was a realistic appraisal of where we *all* are now that life for all of us has changed forever. The sky was totally empty, devoid of another discernable aircraft, and I wondered if this was how Columbus felt in the middle of the Atlantic in 1492. Alone. All alone. Then I realized we were not alone: an F-16 "Fighting Falcon" from the Duluth Air National Guard had intercepted us for a visual identification. This fighter had been tracking us on his "look-down, shoot-down" weapons systems and now was ascertaining that we were, indeed, who we electronically said we were. He was "flying dark": carrying no position lights or strobe lights, and was calmly doing his job at 0030 hours while the rest of Minneapolis slept. Attributed to Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto (but perhaps more in the line of folklore) immediately after the Japanese strike at Pearl Harbor is the following quote: "I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve". To the extremists who are responsible for this hideous carnage I would say this: Take care, all of you: America is pissed. --Bob Steinbrunn (who is *very* pissed in) Minneapolis Member, Nautical Research Guild Tin Can Sailors Twin City Aero Historians IPMS/USA #3345 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! Click Here! ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: tcah-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --part1_3b.1a229deb.28d22a84_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:50:57 +0200 From: "Grzegorz Mazurowski" To: Subject: RE: largest quantity built Message-ID: <013301c13c6b$e32981c0$0200a8c0@x.pl> > THE WORLD'S MOST PRODUCED AIRCRAFT > > Ilyushin IL-2 and Il-10 Sturmovik 41,400 Number is true if we count 2 and 10. Really 6170 Il-10 (including Czech built ones) and 36 163 Il-2 were built. (Z. Krala, Samoloty Il, Warsaw 1991) > Yakovlev Yak -1, -3, -7 and -9 37,000 > Messerschmitt Me 109 33,000 > Supermarine Spitfire 22,890 This is more complicated, because we have to define what is 'type' of airplane. Really, Yak-1 differed less from Yak-3, 7 and even 9 , than Bf 109 E from G (not counting B or K), also we can write the same about Mk.I and Mk.IX Spitfires (not counting later versions). I don't have my opinion here. > Douglas DC-3/C-47/RD-4 13,300 That nuber looks like including 3000 Soviet build under designation Li-2, which is correct. Antonov An-2 was built in over 17 000 examples, 5000 in Soviet, 2000 in China and 10 000 in Poland (really!). It was very extensively used in less habited parts of Russia, China, Mongolia etc. as real 'air-bus', mostly to carry workers from cities to various mines. Many Polish pilots worked in Russia on such 'airlines' and one of them told me that An-2 looked like old country bus, with even dogs, chicks, geese and goats on board, and typicall Russian 'babushkas' (not wooden dolls, but real 'grandmas'). BACK OT: SPAD 13 was ORDERED in 8500 quantity, but only about 7400 were produced before cancellations of orders after armistice. Precise numbers of delivered 13s are known only for two companies producing that plane, SPAD and ACM. Bernard, Bleriot, Borel, Kellner, Levasseur, Nieuport and SAFCA gives only numbers of ORDERED planes. (source: T.Goworek book) What about D.H. 9/9a? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:52:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Allan Wright To: wwi Subject: Announcements Message-ID: <200109131552.LAA34062@mustang.sr.unh.edu> Hi Modelers, Two things: 1) The list will have a short 20-30 min interruption in service this afternoon for an OS upgrade to the server. 2) I will be on vacation this afternoon and tomorrow. I'll be back on Monday. PLEASE PLAY NICE! I would love to come back to work on Monday to a mailbox full of markings, rigging and decals, and not to more politics and religion. Peace, Allan =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | Without love life's just a long fight - Southside University of New Hampshire +-------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@wwi-models.org Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://www.wwi-models.org =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:04:47 -0500 From: "Mark Shannon" To: Subject: Re: Belgian Nieuports Message-ID: I would suggest that the light blue or CDL undersides. I am not sure that the edges were certain to be in underside color, however. I think it would look nice with CDL undersides and light blue in a wider 'rib tape' type separation. I do not think this is ruled out by the known information, but I am not the world's authority on Nieuports. I do not think the Aluminum dopes came in until later - about the introduction of the Ni. 17 Similarly with the two topside camo colors. I used Humbrol 88 and 66 for the colors on my Ni. 17, others have used different selections. I cannot tell that any of them look more 'right' than the others. I am not sure there is any unanimity on this subject. As for the circular support, I would buy some of the thin brass wire or a spool of 32-34 gauge beading wire and bend that around a pen barrel or the like to make this. IIRC from the pictures, this is about a ―" (10-12 mm) metal half-hoop on these? HTH. .Mark. Mike Muth asked: > Well, having almost finished an offtopic airplane, I"m ready to dive >back into 1/48. Next up is the Eduard Nieuport 11. I want to do the plane >in Belgian markings. There a nice photo of it in Nieuport Aces showing 2 >color camo with the underneath color on the wings outlining the top. My >questions are as follows: 1. Clear Doped Linen, Light Blue or Silver for the underneath wing and outline? 2. Dark Green and Light Green for the camo or Dark Green and Brown? 3. Finally, the Lewis gun rests on a semi-circle on the top wing, I stink at stretching sprue...anyone know of a way to easily make one of these or have a spare from some kit? Thanks Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:52:57 -0600 From: "Dale Sebring" To: Subject: Re: Poison Gas Message-ID: <001101c13c6c$345f9b60$a1a58dd0@main> > Mike, I do believe you're talking out your ass here. Thank you Allan! Dale ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:36:59 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: largest quantity built Message-ID: Grzegorz, to your remarks: "Antonov An-2 was built in over 17 000 examples, 5000 in Soviet, 2000 in China and 10 000 in Poland (really!)." Again citing Gunston ("The Osprey...") the total actually should be 18565 aircraft, including 11950 in Poland (of which 10427 made it back to the Soviet Union, making this also the most widely exported aircraft, Iīd guess) and nearly 1200 build in China. "BACK OT: SPAD 13 was ORDERED in 8500 quantity, but only about 7400 were produced before cancellations of orders after armistice. Precise numbers of delivered 13s are known only for two companies producing that plane, SPAD and ACM. Bernard, Bleriot, Borel, Kellner, Levasseur, Nieuport and SAFCA gives only numbers of ORDERED planes. (source: T.Goworek book)" The FMP French aircraft book names 8472 as the number. Jack M Bruce in the 2 part Spad XIII article in Air International (SPAD Story) also quotes this number as "suspect"; other figures quoted in different publications range from 7.300 to 8.400. The true figure seems to be unknown, and must be assumed to be between these borders. "What about D.H. 9/9a?" havenīt looked ion the exact figures, but from DF 72 it would seem around 3600 DH 9 were build. Until the end of 1918, the RAF received 885 DH 9A, so (with production tapering of by then) the total can not been anywhere in the region of the SPAD. Volker _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:55:15 -0400 From: "mdf@mars.ark.com" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Belgian Nieuport Question Message-ID: <3BA0E4F3.35E71BBD@mars.ark.com> I would venture toward the colours being brown/green/light blue and it would probably be easier to use fine wire for the gun mount (assuming you'll be including the dip in the middle). Mike F. Muth and Zulick wrote: > > Well, having almost finished an offtopic airplane, I"m ready to dive > back into 1/48. Next up is the Eduard Nieuport 11. I want to do the plane in > Belgian markings. There a nice photo of it in Nieuport Aces showing 2 color > camo with the underneath color on the wings outlining the top. My questions > are as follows: > 1. Clear Doped Linen, Light Blue or Silver for the underneath wing and > outline? > 2. Dark Green and Light Green for the camo or Dark Green and Brown? > 3. Finally, the Lewis gun rests on a semi-circle on the top wing, I stink > at stretching sprue...anyone know of a way to easily make one of these or > have a spare from some kit? > Thanks > Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:04:55 -0400 From: "mdf@mars.ark.com" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: largest quantity built Message-ID: <3BA0E737.C4B26D55@mars.ark.com> What about the Avro 504 - it was in continuous use from 1914 until the eve of WW2... and by lots of different counties. I've not seen any production figures though. Mike Volker Haeusler wrote: > > Grzegorz, > > to your remarks: > > "Antonov An-2 was built in over 17 000 examples, 5000 in Soviet, 2000 in > China and 10 000 in Poland (really!)." > > Again citing Gunston ("The Osprey...") the total actually should be 18565 > aircraft, including 11950 in Poland (of which 10427 made it back to the > Soviet Union, making this also the most widely exported aircraft, Iīd guess) > and nearly 1200 build in China. > > "BACK OT: > SPAD 13 was ORDERED in 8500 quantity, but only about 7400 were produced > before cancellations of orders after armistice. Precise numbers of delivered > 13s are known only for two companies producing that plane, SPAD and ACM. > Bernard, Bleriot, Borel, Kellner, Levasseur, Nieuport and SAFCA gives only > numbers of ORDERED planes. (source: T.Goworek book)" > > The FMP French aircraft book names 8472 as the number. Jack M Bruce in the 2 > part Spad XIII article in Air International (SPAD Story) also quotes this > number as "suspect"; other figures quoted in different publications range > from 7.300 to 8.400. The true figure seems to be unknown, and must be > assumed to be between these borders. > > "What about D.H. 9/9a?" > > havenīt looked ion the exact figures, but from DF 72 it would seem around > 3600 DH 9 were build. Until the end of 1918, the RAF received 885 DH 9A, so > (with production tapering of by then) the total can not been anywhere in the > region of the SPAD. > > Volker > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3716 **********************