WWI Digest 3704 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Hello by CAUhlir@aol.com 2) Re: Hello by "Ross Moorhouse" 3) Staaken E 4. by Julian Stargardt 4) Re: Staaken E 4. by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 5) Re: TRI by Crawford Neil 6) Re: new virtual DVa stuff by Witold Kozakiewicz 7) beating up the Romans was RE: Past Lives? by "Gaston Graf" 8) Re: Hello by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 9) Re: Hello by Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au 10) Re: TRI by David Fleming 11) Re: Hello by "Ross Moorhouse" 12) Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by "D Charles" 13) Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by "Ross Moorhouse" 14) Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by "Steven Perry" 15) Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by "Ross Moorhouse" 16) Re: Staaken E 4. by Volker Haeusler 17) Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by "Steven Perry" 18) Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by "Ross Moorhouse" 19) Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by Tim Linnell 20) Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by "Steven Perry" 21) Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by "Ross Moorhouse" 22) Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by "Steven Perry" 23) RE: beating up the Romans was RE: Past Lives? by "dfernet0" 24) RE: Staaken E 4. by "dfernet0" 25) Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia by "Ross Moorhouse" 26) 1/72 Nieuport 17 -'Wedge' of plastic card ? by David Fleming 27) The last Belgian "Poilu" by "Gaston Graf" 28) RE: Esci Nieuport N17 and other 1/72 kits by "dfernet0" 29) RE: 1/72 Nieuport 17 -'Wedge' of plastic card ? by "dfernet0" 30) RE: new virtual DVa stuff by "dfernet0" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 02:29:32 EDT From: CAUhlir@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Hello Message-ID: ahhh.. 11:30 pm in California and secure in knowing the Aussies of the list are guarding the wares. Candice ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:32:55 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Hello Message-ID: <013701c13a8b$98636340$66e2223f@umber> It would be good to see some arty for the BBQ. I haven't seen that set in years in shops up here. Did see a set of the Airfix American infantry to other day in a local hoppyshop. This had the MPC brand name on it I believe. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:23 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Hello | | Yes this is true Ross...particularly when the telephone at work wakes me | up! Otherwise it must be the dingo poo diet which keeps us hyper active! : | ) | | Actually I'm trying to save my energy to attach the rigging to my Albatross | tonight. I'm also thinking about what WW1 armour/land vehicle to do for the | BBQ...It'll depend on what's available here in Melbourne...probably the | Emhar Mk IV or the Ford armoured car, though I was wondering if the old | Airfix Royal Horse Artillery set was still available.... | | Regards | | Neil | | | | | "Ross Moorhouse" | | Sent by: cc: | wwi@wwi-models.or Subject: [WWI] Re: Hello | g | | | 11/09/2001 04:07 | PM | Please respond to | wwi | | | | | | | The USA sleeps .. ;) Not like us Aussies hey Neil :) | | Ross | | | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: | To: "Multiple recipients of list" | Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:02 PM | Subject: [WWI] Hello | | | | ahhhh, things have gone very quiet in Listland....is the world | | sleeping?..... : ) | | | | | | | | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:47:39 +0800 From: Julian Stargardt To: wwi@mustang.sr.unh.edu Subject: Staaken E 4. Message-ID: <200109110647.OAA16754@imsp211.netvigator.com> Dear Sir / Madam, Re: Staaken E 4. I hope you'll forgive me writing to you out of the blue ! I came across your discussion of the model kit of the E 4. and you mention that the original was never built, actually it was. Haddow & Grosz's classic "German Giants" features some excellent photos of the plane under construction and completed as well as a lot of technical detail - see pages 289 - 292 of the 1969 edition of "German Giants". This plane was in its own way as revolutionary as the Wright brothers' planes. It was the first all metal fully enclosed four engined monoplane. The grand-daddy of all later commercial heavy lift aircraft. It was constructed after the armistice in 1919 under allied supervision at the Zeppelin works at Staaken. Grosz & Haddow say "Naturally, Allied engineers attached to the Commission followed the assembly progress with a high degree of interest". They go on: "The E.4/20, completed 30 september 1920, performed a number of exceedingly promising flights with test pilot Carl Kuring at the controls. During one flight made under optimum conditions the aircraft was clocked at 225km.h., an unheard of speed for an aircraft of that size." What they don't say is that was also faster than amost all allied fighters of the day. Amazing when one considers that the aircraft was powered by four engines rated only at a maximum of 250 h.p. each. No doubt it's remarkable performance was due to its revolutionary aerofoil fully enclosed fuselage and high wing loading of 80kg/sq.m. What I find astonishing is that the plane was designed along the principles of a modern airliner, centre aisle with full wash room / w/c; separate post store for air mail, baggage room, enclosed, cockpit in the nose, radio-telegraphy room at the rear etc. It would be fascinating to find out who the engineers were who observed the plane's construction and to whom the plans and reports of its success were later made known. That way one could trace its impact on later aeronautical developments. I strongly suspect E.4/20 is the "missing link" in the design evolution of modern all metal aircraft. Sadly it was so far in advance of anything contemplated by the Allies that it was scrapped in 1922 on the orders of the Inter-Allied Control Commission, who feared that it could be converted for use as a high speed heavy bomber. Apologies for writing out of the blue. With kind regards. Julian Stargardt, Hong Kong ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:00:30 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Staaken E 4. Message-ID: Julian; Dont apologise, contribute more! Everyone is welcome here on the list who is interested in WW1 (and immediate post world war one) topics. Do you know of any web links regarding the Staaken E.4? Neil E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:01:31 +0200 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: Re: TRI Message-ID: Without really knowing very much about it, I've heard that TRI isn't good for your health. That's the advantage of ethyl-acetate it's (relatively) harmless. /Neil C. > > Hi! > I see I'm joking too much. Of course TRI is Trichloroetylene ;-) > G. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:03:39 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: new virtual DVa stuff Message-ID: <3B9DB74B.AA6D80DA@bg.am.lodz.pl> Mark Miller napisał(a): > > Hi > Brett over at Hyperscale just put up some new work. > It's an AVI file, but it's not realy a "movie". Mark, it is very very good job. I use your virtual Albatros as reference for building mine. And it is another OT stuff on Hyperscale - maybe this will help to promote OT production. -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:05:07 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: beating up the Romans was RE: Past Lives? Message-ID: Not to forget that Diego and I once had much fun beating up the ugly Romans at a time we still lived in that little Celtic village in Northern France... That time the Roman world was trembling of fear when somebody whispered our names "Asterix & Obelix".... Still today the world is trembling when somebody whispers our names... "Gasterix & Diegosterix".... trembling of laughter.... huh - looks like something went wrong with the reincarnation machine... WHERE'S MY POWER DRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINK !?!?!?!?! Gasterix ;o) > > > Peter wrote: > http://www.rittmeister.org/> > > Thanks Peter... that's rich! And I understand Shirley Maclaine > was actually > Hermann Goring previously... verrrry interrrresting! > > Cheers, > Andrei :) > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:16:36 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Hello Message-ID: Ross; Yes some artillery would be good. I have an interest in RFA/RHA as I have been transcribing (when I get time) the handwritten WW1 memoirs of a horse driver who was in the RFA. The memoir covers his experiences in recruitment and training, Loos, the Somme, and I think Cambrai, though I'm not up to that part yet. I was thinking, if the pieces were available, there is good diorama material about an incident he experienced at Loos. It depends what artillery pieces are available - I'll have to check the BBQ site for info on this I guess. Regards Neil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:31:47 +1000 From: Neil.Eddy@dhs.vic.gov.au To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Hello Message-ID: Our "Film Noir" motto: "The List Never Sleeps" Off home now to Digest mode Neil E. CAUhlir@aol.c om To: Multiple recipients of list Sent by: wwi@wwi-model cc: s.org Subject: [WWI] Re: Hello 11/09/2001 04:32 PM Please respond to wwi ahhh.. 11:30 pm in California and secure in knowing the Aussies of the list are guarding the wares. Candice ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:20:21 +0100 From: David Fleming To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: TRI Message-ID: <3B9DC945.A7206A01@dial.pipex.com> Grzegorz Mazurowski wrote: > Hi! > I see I'm joking too much. Of course TRI is Trichloroetylene ;-) > G. > I think we are getting the measure of your humour ! Keeps us all on our toes !! LOL dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:40:44 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Hello Message-ID: <003301c13a9d$7394e9a0$58c8223f@umber> Neil, That would make a great read once its transcribed. Are you going to get it published ? There are some sites on the "Kit List" that have arty models.. Cheers Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:18 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Hello | | Ross; | | Yes some artillery would be good. I have an interest in RFA/RHA as I have | been transcribing (when I get time) the handwritten WW1 memoirs of a horse | driver who was in the RFA. The memoir covers his experiences in | recruitment and training, Loos, the Somme, and I think Cambrai, though I'm | not up to that part yet. I was thinking, if the pieces were available, | there is good diorama material about an incident he experienced at Loos. It | depends what artillery pieces are available - I'll have to check the BBQ | site for info on this I guess. | | Regards | | Neil | | | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:49:52 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <005501c13a9e$b9d0d7c0$df29d7d2@Charls> Ross, et al, In Australia it's currently called SHINE MAGIC. It's a Johnsons' floor polish. I buy it at the local supermarket. You may need to look around. David > Well considering I am the one that does the shopping in this house and we > have a Supermarket right across the road I should be able to get this stuff. > I have seen it raved about on AFV, Aircraft forums and in magazines but its > always been called "Future". So cheers all for the correct ;^) for down ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:14:41 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <004701c13aa2$31acb680$58c8223f@umber> Charles, This is a real D!OH question, but how is it applied to a model? Cheers Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Charles" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:50 PM Subject: [WWI] Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia | Ross, et al, | | In Australia it's currently called SHINE MAGIC. It's a Johnsons' floor | polish. I buy | it at the local supermarket. You may need to look around. | | David | | | | > Well considering I am the one that does the shopping in this house and we | > have a Supermarket right across the road I should be able to get this | stuff. | > I have seen it raved about on AFV, Aircraft forums and in magazines but | its | > always been called "Future". So cheers all for the correct ;^) for down | | | | | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:19:25 -0400 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <004301c13aa2$d9ceb480$59b65c18@tampabay.rr.com> > This is a real D!OH question, but how is it applied to a model? Same as paint, some prefer to spray it, others brush it on. sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:23:40 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <005701c13aa3$73427520$58c8223f@umber> So it doesn't need thinner or anything??? Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Perry" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:18 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia | | > This is a real D!OH question, but how is it applied to a model? | | Same as paint, some prefer to spray it, others brush it on. | sp | | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:05:12 +0800 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Staaken E 4. Message-ID: <005101c13aa0$dddfe1e0$236e160a@CSP00> Neil asked: > > Julian; > > Dont apologise, contribute more! Everyone is welcome here on the list who > is interested in WW1 (and immediate post world war one) topics. Do you know > of any web links regarding the Staaken E.4? > There are only two webpages on the E 4/20 I'm aware of: http://www.blauermax.de/staaken.htm http://avia.russian.ee/air/germany/zeppelin_e-4.html As already mentioned by Julian, the best treatment is in "German Giants", with some additions in the later editions of that book. Another excellent piece on the Staaken E 4/20 (with siome additional photos of structural details) can be found in a 1921 edition of the "Zeitschrift des Vereins Deutscher Ingenieure". This article was done by the designer (Rohrbach) himself, who describes the design in detail. I am not aware what started the E 4/20 discussion, so this might have been mentioned already, but there is a vac model of the E 4/20 in 72 scale by Classic Plane. This was one of Detlef Schorsch's first kits, and it is rather soft on detail (mine also got some "bumps" on the wings), but it should basically be buildable. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:30:51 -0400 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <004b01c13aa4$728bd9e0$59b65c18@tampabay.rr.com> > So it doesn't need thinner or anything??? No it goes on straight, However I use Future to thin artists acrylics, it imparts it's almost magical leveling properties to the paint. Can bre thinned or cleaned up with alcohol or windex. sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:36:04 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <006301c13aa5$2e57b7c0$58c8223f@umber> Ok one more question. I would have to use either alcohol or windex to clean a brush that has got Future on it?? Thanks to for the answers. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Perry" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:31 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia | | > So it doesn't need thinner or anything??? | | No it goes on straight, However I use Future to thin artists acrylics, it | imparts it's almost magical leveling properties to the paint. | | Can bre thinned or cleaned up with alcohol or windex. | sp | | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:35:05 +0100 From: Tim Linnell To: Subject: Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <010EF7D56E81D311AF850090273C43FE033E71B8@eden.recorders.eurotherm.co.uk> But isn't a bit dangerous coming home from the shops with cleaning products? My own observations suggest that that's what stops my wife having enough time for modelmaking.... Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Perry [mailto:sperry03@tampabay.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:31 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WWI] Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia > > > > > So it doesn't need thinner or anything??? > > No it goes on straight, However I use Future to thin artists > acrylics, it > imparts it's almost magical leveling properties to the paint. > > Can bre thinned or cleaned up with alcohol or windex. > sp > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:46:22 -0400 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <005701c13aa6$9d6c7f00$59b65c18@tampabay.rr.com> > Ok one more question. I would have to use either alcohol or windex to clean > a brush that has got Future on it?? Thanks to for the answers. When wet, brushes can be cleaned in water, windex or alcohol. If it dries out, Lacquer thinner will break it up. hth sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:51:45 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <007501c13aa7$5f80a3a0$58c8223f@umber> Thanks heaps Steve, But one more question, what did you have for breakfast?? ;^) Cheers mate Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Perry" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:46 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia | | > Ok one more question. I would have to use either alcohol or windex to | clean | > a brush that has got Future on it?? Thanks to for the answers. | | When wet, brushes can be cleaned in water, windex or alcohol. If it dries | out, Lacquer thinner will break it up. | hth | sp | | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:56:22 -0400 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <006101c13aa8$038be0e0$59b65c18@tampabay.rr.com> > Thanks heaps Steve, > > But one more question, what did you have for breakfast?? ;^) Grits boy, grits! sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:06:36 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: beating up the Romans was RE: Past Lives? Message-ID: <007901c13aa9$71bed3a0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> LOL! Ces romains sont fous! Maybe Steve the Alchemist was Panoramix... ask him, Gaston! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gaston Graf To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:06 AM Subject: [WWI] beating up the Romans was RE: Past Lives? > Not to forget that Diego and I once had much fun beating up the ugly Romans > at a time we still lived in that little Celtic village in Northern France... > That time the Roman world was trembling of fear when somebody whispered our > names "Asterix & Obelix".... Still today the world is trembling when > somebody whispers our names... "Gasterix & Diegosterix".... trembling of > laughter.... huh - looks like something went wrong with the reincarnation > machine... > > WHERE'S MY POWER DRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINK !?!?!?!?! > > Gasterix ;o) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:20:44 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Cc: "ww1 list" Subject: RE: Staaken E 4. Message-ID: <014401c13aab$6acb1fc0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Hi Julian! I don't know if you are subscribed to the WW1list, if so, welcome aboard, if not, you may have not seen the answers to your interesting post so far. Let us know about you D. from Argentina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:17:37 +1000 From: "Ross Moorhouse" To: Subject: Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia Message-ID: <008f01c13aaa$fc6c6ca0$58c8223f@umber> What no Gobber Peas. ;) I had better stop this before it gets all off topic too much. ;) Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Perry" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: [WWI] Re: Johnsons' Floor polish in Australia | | | | > Thanks heaps Steve, | > | > But one more question, what did you have for breakfast?? ;^) | | Grits boy, grits! | sp | | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:35:33 +0100 From: David Fleming To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: 1/72 Nieuport 17 -'Wedge' of plastic card ? Message-ID: <3B9DE8F5.96FE70EA@dial.pipex.com> Having won a Revell Nie 17 on ebay, I decided to resurrect my RFC/RNAS Nie project. My first question - how do you add the 'wedge' of plastic card to under the fuselage ? It tapers in an interesting 2 directional way . Ray R even shows a nice drawing on the Scale Models articles, but I'm blown if I can work out how to shape a wedge like that. Tempted to add a slab of card to under the fuse and sand/plane it to shape - is that the best way ? Dave BTW Matt, at least one WON'T have British roundels on the fuselage, so even you can like it ! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:43:59 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: The last Belgian "Poilu" Message-ID: >From todays issue of the "Luxemburger Wort": The last Belgian survivor of World War One - Paul Ooghe - passed away last Saturday at the age of 102 in the region of Bussels. He died three months after the 106 year old Michiel Coghe who was the dean of the Belgian Poilus. Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:56:42 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Esci Nieuport N17 and other 1/72 kits Message-ID: <022901c13ab0$710b36e0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Gaston! > found some 1/72 thingies > that seems to be suited for a nine year old to get into modeling. For some of us, those thingies keep us busy until later in life, Gaston ;-) > Esci N17 today. Neat little kit, but how accurate is it? Fairly. > Is it worth extra detailing or is it just good enough for beginners? Yes, it's worth adding better details but is also OK for a beginner. Plus it is french. > I also found the Airfix Dr.1 that was sold as Voss' kite - (hey the box > shows it with a vegimite green cowl) plus the Albatros DVa of MvR The Airfix Dr. 1 doesn't look like a scaled down real Fokker at all... however is a good practice ground for techniques and a nice toy once finished. The D.Va is a good kit and with a little work can be converted in a nice model. both kits are displayed on my model gallery at Allan's site. > no pression on me to build a most > accurate model but just having fun assembling a kit. That's cool, really! Ain't this hobby great? D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:03:01 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: 1/72 Nieuport 17 -'Wedge' of plastic card ? Message-ID: <024901c13ab1$530148a0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Dave! > My first question - how do you add the 'wedge' of plastic card to under > the fuselage ? It tapers in an interesting 2 directional way . Ray R > even shows a nice drawing on the Scale Models articles, but I'm blown if > I can work out how to shape a wedge like that. But how?... I don't understand. > Tempted to add a slab of card to under the fuse and sand/plane it to > shape - is that the best way ? I think it is, or at least what I would do. HTH D. BTW where's the second question??? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:06:07 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: new virtual DVa stuff Message-ID: <025d01c13ab1$c1fb9f80$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Mark! > I'm sure everyone is getting pretty tired of the Albatros stuff I'm not! Keep doing new renderings. > I know I am - but I'm not done yet. Sweeeeeeet! > I've just finished the remaining structural elements so I MUST render out some Final images which show the whole thing. I'm trying to create a large image with multiple laters so I can make a phantom view. Duuuuuuude! > I'm in the mood to model so I'm working on the LeRhone, such perfect geometry for digital modeling. It's progressing at a rapid rate so I might be able to post some images by the end of the week. > then on to the N17 :-) Sweeeeeeeeeeet! D. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3704 **********************