WWI Digest 3475 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: A birthday dream by Volker Haeusler 2) Re: Americal/Gryphon?? by John_Impenna@hyperion.com 3) RE: Steve's ethical/legal question... my opinion by Volker Haeusler 4) Some OT magazine alert: Albatros D II by Volker Haeusler 5) Re: Some OT magazine alert: Albatros D II by Matt Bittner 6) RE: Steve's ethical/legal question... my opinion by Crawford Neil 7) Re: Rhinebeck Get Together by John_Impenna@hyperion.com 8) RE: ot porthole request by Crawford Neil 9) von Schleich Markings by John_Impenna@hyperion.com 10) RE: The Union Flag by "Ray Boorman" 11) RE: Steve's ethical/legal question... my opinion by "Michael Kendix" 12) Re: Steve's ethical/legal question... my opinion by "Steven Perry" 13) Heaven... I'm in heaven... by "Marcio Antonio Campos" 14) Re: Some OT magazine alert: Albatros D II by "Steven Perry" 15) Some thoughts on the US Nats by Matt Bittner 16) Re: Heaven... I'm in heaven... by Matt Bittner 17) Re: Union Flags and "Handedness" by "Lance Krieg" 18) Re: Is there a list group meeting planned for Nats? by "Lance Krieg" 19) Re: Gavia's Bristol & Union Jacks by "Ray Boorman" 20) Re: 'Flag' vs. 'Jack' by "Ray Boorman" 21) Re: 'Flag' vs. 'Jack' by xtv16@dial.pipex.com 22) Re: Steve's ethical/legal question... my opinion by john@huggins-leahey.com (John Huggins) 23) Other Lists by NodalPoint@aol.com 24) Re: Is there a list group meeting planned for Nats? by Karen Rychlewski 25) Union Flag vs. Jack by Andreikor@aol.com 26) Re: Heaven... I'm in heaven... by Karen Rychlewski 27) How did we miss Mark? by Andreikor@aol.com 28) RE: OT Battlefield Archeology sites + UNESCO Heritage Sites by Myles Miller 29) Re: Is there a list group meeting planned for Nats? by ERIC HIGHT 30) Re: Is there a list group meeting planned for Nats? by Matt Bittner 31) Re: Is there a list group meeting planned for Nats? by Eli Geher 32) Holidays by "a.casirati@cornali-trasporti.it" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 07:17:01 +0700 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: A birthday dream Message-ID: Hola Diego, Finally my ISP is working again... Missed out that party because of high temperatures over here preventing any take offs. So a rather late Happy Birthday Diego - great piece of writing that was. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:29:45 -0400 From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Americal/Gryphon?? Message-ID: Hi Mike, My inquiry was answered last nite as the sheets I ordered were waiting for me!!!! Never fails. Inquire about something and it arrives that day. Great way to speed up deliveries!! I had completely forgotten about the floods in Houston. Glen's note to me sounds like they are okay. Thanks to all for the info. It was great meeting you and your family at Rhinebeck...My wife and I had a great time.. Regards, John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 07:36:47 +0700 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Steve's ethical/legal question... my opinion Message-ID: On Steve´s question: I remember I was quite surprised at university how little protection is actually offered for industrial products (in Europe at least), when it comes to copying. Seems basically little chance to prevent somebody copying (for example) an E class Mercedes as long as he does not copy the star or certain patented parts... It seems that even (or even more) today there is little legal possibilities even for big manufacturers copying others - see especially the (improved) copies of certain ot Hasegawa, Heller etc kits by Academy. Too, as already mentioned on the list before, a number of OT garage manufacturers went to copy others - first Meikraft, 12squared and Wings the Czechmaster resins, and now a certain Czech resin manufacturer Pegasus, Sierra, Skybirds 86, Skuld/Veterans etc. Not to mention the recent A-Model Avro 504... There´s little doubt about the ethical part of the question; legally, there seems to be little against it. When it comes to modifying existing kits to produce new ones, I do not see even ethical concerns - look at all those early Fokker D VI kits using modified parts from the Revell Dr I and D VII as masters, or the Revell Albatros D III fiuselage used as a basis for many D I/II kits. Here the creativity of the designer of the new kit clearly prevails, and the donor kit only acted as a means to ease the workload - but there is no *copying* involved, as the end product clearly and substantially differs from the original. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 07:59:51 +0700 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Some OT magazine alert: Albatros D II Message-ID: I am slowly looking through the treasures I got during my last trip to Germany. I am quite surprised by the quality of one *extremely nice* "Flugzeug Profile" that I actually bought on the airport because I saw one interesting photo in it: It is "Flugzeug Profile" no 38 on the Alöbatros D II, written by Rudolf Hoefling, published by Flugzeug Publikations GmbH. I did not like their earlier stuff, but that one is great: Nearly *100* photos of the Albatros D II (both the German and the AH versions, quite a lot of them unpublished (or so I think at least). Also 17 color profiles of different Albatros D II with some very interesting markings. Photos mainly come from Joerg Mueckler, and include (for example) that second Jasta 9 lineup photo I had already heard about but never seen that shows not only the "crossed swords" of Vzfw. Junge but also the checkerboard marking of the Staffelfuehrer Kurt Student. Really a good book, even though the text is in German. Plus the price is quite good at less than US $ 10.- Volker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:06:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Bittner To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Some OT magazine alert: Albatros D II Message-ID: <20010626140601.24245.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> Sounds cool! Any idea where we can find this? Anybody know if there's a US distributor? Or if not, maybe our German members are willing to trade or buy for us? Matt Bittner --- Volker Haeusler wrote: > I am slowly looking through the treasures I got during my last > trip to > Germany. > > I am quite surprised by the quality of one *extremely nice* > "Flugzeug > Profile" that I actually bought on the airport because I saw > one interesting > photo in it: > > It is "Flugzeug Profile" no 38 on the Alöbatros D II, written > by Rudolf > Hoefling, published by Flugzeug Publikations GmbH. I did not > like their > earlier stuff, but that one is great: Nearly *100* photos of > the Albatros D > II (both the German and the AH versions, quite a lot of them > unpublished (or > so I think at least). Also 17 color profiles of different > Albatros D II with > some very interesting markings. Photos mainly come from Joerg > Mueckler, and > include (for example) that second Jasta 9 lineup photo I had > already heard > about but never seen that shows not only the "crossed swords" > of Vzfw. Junge > but also the checkerboard marking of the Staffelfuehrer Kurt > Student. Really > a good book, even though the text is in German. Plus the price > is quite good > at less than US $ 10.- > > Volker > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:06:08 +0200 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: Steve's ethical/legal question... my opinion Message-ID: Copying makes the world go round! If the early aircraft maufacturers hadn't copied each other, we would still be at the level of Santos-Dumont. At the same time if Curtiss had been allowed to copy the Wright wing-warping the evolution of aircraft would have been delayed, he was forced to invent something new, (the aileron) which turned out better. In fact he probably copied the aileron from Bleriot who had tried it without success, gave up and copied the Wright wing warping instead! It's an interesting subject, I always think it silly when I'm told that the Tu144 is a copy of Concorde, it was just the right configuration developed in the same time period, obviously the designers were influenced by each other, but copying no. Most modern cars are copies of Mercedes E-class, just as much as the E-class is a copy of generations of cars that have gone before. At Volvo we have a department called Competitor analysis, where we look at our competitors, just the same as they do to us, if we see a good design, we try and do something similar (without infringing any patents), the problem is that our designers prefer to make their own mistakes , so we probably do too little copying. I think too many restrictions on copying is counter-productive, it can be an honour to be copied, OTOH sheer piracy must not be allowed, it's a very fine balance. /Neil Volker wrote: > I remember I was quite surprised at university how little > protection is > actually offered for industrial products (in Europe at > least), when it comes > to copying. Seems basically little chance to prevent somebody > copying (for > example) an E class Mercedes as long as he does not copy the > star or certain > patented parts... > > It seems that even (or even more) today there is little legal > possibilities > even for big manufacturers copying others - see especially > the (improved) > copies of certain ot Hasegawa, Heller etc kits by Academy. > Too, as already > mentioned on the list before, a number of OT garage > manufacturers went to > copy others - first Meikraft, 12squared and Wings the > Czechmaster resins, > and now a certain Czech resin manufacturer Pegasus, Sierra, > Skybirds 86, > Skuld/Veterans etc. Not to mention the recent A-Model Avro 504... > > There´s little doubt about the ethical part of the question; > legally, there > seems to be little against it. > > When it comes to modifying existing kits to produce new ones, > I do not see > even ethical concerns - look at all those early Fokker D VI kits using > modified parts from the Revell Dr I and D VII as masters, or > the Revell > Albatros D III fiuselage used as a basis for many D I/II > kits. Here the > creativity of the designer of the new kit clearly prevails, > and the donor > kit only acted as a means to ease the workload - but there is > no *copying* > involved, as the end product clearly and substantially > differs from the > original. > > Volker > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:10:00 -0400 From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Rhinebeck Get Together Message-ID: Hi Mark, Sorry we missed you...Next time we should send around the List "button" jpg and print it out and put in an ID badge holder..That way we can spot each other. We are plannig on Sept 30...We'll pick a place and time to meet before the show so we can all get together. Regards, John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:14:17 +0200 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@wwi-models.org'" Subject: RE: ot porthole request Message-ID: Have you looked over at Jim Landons site, I think he makes instruments for the Salmson something like this. /Neil > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Pearson [mailto:bpearson@rapidnet.net] > Sent: den 25 juni 2001 23:55 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: ot porthole request > > > As this is by far and away the best group of modelers I know > of, I'll pick > your brains on my current stumper which is basically ot > ..although I guess > it could also apply to a large scale Aviatik D.I where the > control panel is > illuminated by the porthole over it (whew .. made it OT). > > On my 1/72 Flower I have just scratchbuilt the engine room > skylight (60 > pieces so far as opposed to the kit's ONE part). . anyhow I > need to add > something for the scuttles on each of the little hatches. I > was going to > drill out some thin styrene and then use a hole punch to cut this out > leaving a thin circle to glue down to the hatch cover. > However this is too > large. . I have been unable to find anything else to use and > don't really > want to break down and use the GLS scuttle set (1/72 wingnuts > included) as > then I would have to go back and get really anal on the parts > I have already > done (ie: 126 piece hedgehog sans bombs). > > Any thoughts? I need something about 4mm in diameter that I > can hollow the > centre out to add the glass (future or epoxy). > > Please reply offlist to > corvette@smmlonline.com > > Regards, > Bob Pearson > > PS if anyone here is interested in Flowers and other escort > ships, I have > started a small mailing list devoted to them. Send a message > to the above > address and I shall add you to it > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:19:15 -0400 From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: von Schleich Markings Message-ID: Hi Folks, Since the list is much busier today, I'm gonna try this one again. I'm looking for the Aeromaster, I believe, von Schleich DV markings(blue & white checkered circle w/rampant horse) in 1/48 scale. If anyone has these, or knows what sheet they are on(I was told it is oop), I would buy or trade. TIA!! Regards, John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:17:36 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: The Union Flag Message-ID: <3B389980.000003.51871@ray.bconnected.net> Ah you're just jealous because any idiot can get your flag right. (VBG and running for cover) -------Original Message------- From: geoff-smith@ntlworld.com Drives me nuts when even Brits can't be bothered to get it right. Regards, Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:21:58 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Steve's ethical/legal question... my opinion Message-ID: >From: Crawford Neil > >I think too many restrictions on copying is counter-productive, >it can be an honour to be copied, OTOH sheer piracy must not >be allowed, it's a very fine balance. Neil: This is essentially the issue - one of balance. Too much copying means people have no incentive to innovate and in the long term, the stream of new products dries up. If you have a moral question about using someone else's kit or whatever to make a conversion or a new kit, the best way to proceed is to ask them. So, for example, suppose I wanted to make a conversion of Eric Hight's SE5 to an SE4. Maybe it would help ERic sell more SE5's but I think I'd like to ask him first. What if he was considering issuing an SE4 himself? As for legal issues, I have no idea about that. Speaking if such matters, has anyone heard from SRAM? I spoke to someone at U.S. Customs (a lawyer who takes the bus with me) and the US authorities take a fairly dim view of such activities, tending to bar pirated goods from entering the country. he gave me the name of a contact should I wish to pursue the matter. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:24:42 -0400 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Steve's ethical/legal question... my opinion Message-ID: <005c01c0fe4b$be131da0$59b65c18@tampabay.rr.com> > On Steve´s question: > that master after improving/correcting/detailing the kit pieces, is this a > fair use if the intent is to sell kits. I do not mean knockoff copies, > rather a mix of modified kit parts and scratchbuilt ones making up the > master.> Thanks to all who have responded. I was thinking in terms that no kit part used in the master would be a direct copy. All kit parts used would be modified in some way. By changing and or improving the kit parts as well as using scratched parts, work was done and in theory, value was added. So one would be entitled to profit from the sale of kits made from such a master. I suppose that theory gets stronger the more highly modified the kit parts are. I perceive the ethical threshold being that no kit part used in a master be directly recognizable as such in the final kit. sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:27:09 -0300 From: "Marcio Antonio Campos" To: Subject: Heaven... I'm in heaven... Message-ID: <000f01c0fe4c$16427e80$401ba8c0@office.br.starmedia.com> There was a package waiting for me at home... One Pegasus Albatros W.4 (and the mini-datafile on this plane), Eastern Express Siemens-Schuckhert D.III-D.IV and Aviatik D.I, and for my Jasta 18 project, the Eduard Albatros D.Va and Fokker Dr.I and two Revell Fokker D.VII (I still must get two more). Also the Blue Rider Jasta 18 decal sheet and other decals with Slovenian markings. I guess now I must have more than 10 OT kits waiting for me. With best regards Marcio Antonio Campos Redator do GuiaSP StarMedia do Brasil marcio.campos@starmedia.net http://www.guiasp.com.br http://www.guiarj.com.br http://www.nacidade.com.br ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:27:20 -0400 From: "Steven Perry" To: Subject: Re: Some OT magazine alert: Albatros D II Message-ID: <006901c0fe4c$1c217c20$59b65c18@tampabay.rr.com> Photos mainly come from Joerg Mueckler, and > include (for example) that second Jasta 9 lineup photo I had already heard > about but never seen that shows not only the "crossed swords" of Vzfw. Junge > but also the checkerboard marking of the Staffelfuehrer Kurt Student. Could this be part of what Glen Merrill was referring to when he mentioned a re-work of the Jasta 5 sheet? sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:30:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Bittner To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Some thoughts on the US Nats Message-ID: <20010626143030.27766.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> Just wanted to let people know that Greg VanWyngarden's seminar - on German markings, etc. - is a definite. What I haven't heard is a date and time. I plan on attending at least two seminars - Greg's, and the one for IPMS web developers (I hope to talk about PHP and dynamic web sites, for those interested :-). Other than that I'm pretty flexible. I don't know about the others, but I'm pretty excited and looking forward to next week at the Nats. There is going to be a huge turnout, and may even surpass Columbus in '97 for the largest attended. Matt Bittner __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:34:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Bittner To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Heaven... I'm in heaven... Message-ID: <20010626143424.33725.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marcio Antonio Campos wrote: > Revell Fokker D.VII (I still must get two more). I wouldn't, and pick up the new Roden kits instead. Assuming they're accurate, of course, which they should be... Matt Bittner __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:41:22 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: Union Flags and "Handedness" Message-ID: Well, a facinating thread, and thanks to those who have shed further light. I pulled out every book I had on early British planes and there is no doubt that Shane's description of of the hoist versus fly orientation is widely practiced on the fuselage/tails. So the nose of the plane is the hoist, which means that starboard markings are a mirror image of the normal flag illustrations. And, as Shane also pointed out, the "upside-down" theory doesn't work, which I should have noticed before I volunteered it. Sorry. Examples that clearly fall into the "handed" category are Gunbuses, RE 5s and every Bristol Scout I could find. But underwing flags, which might have been field-painted, are fewer and harder to see. Some of these appear to me to have the red St. .Patrick's saltire centered on the white St. Andrew's, ala a certain American battleflag of recent disrepute. And I could get no sense of whether or not the handedness, if practiced, would apply to the wings, with the fuselage serving as the flag staff. Thanks to Andre, for I would have NEVER noticed this... Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:49:39 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: Is there a list group meeting planned for Nats? Message-ID: Thursday works fine for me, if the judging is Friday. Like Tom, I'll be showing us sometime Wednesday and staying there at the convention hotel. Meeting at Eric's is probably the best, as he is ALWAYS present (except when he's out smoking) and can help us hook up. But I'm not going out in Chicago with him dressed in his Luftwaffe uniform, even if that gun IS loaded! I volunteered to buy the pizza, and unless we invite the entire congregation, the offer still holds... Lance ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:12:36 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: Gavia's Bristol & Union Jacks Message-ID: <3B3827D4.000003.24001@ray.bconnected.net> Yah, got me. Actually the act was passed in 1800 and became law in 1801. At which point changes were made to the flag. However if you are modelling a ship, you have to be careful the Royal Navy didn't adopt the new flag immediately because of visibility problems even at the time of Trafalgar the old flag was still in use as far as I know. Ray -------Original Message------- From: Bob Pearson Date: Monday, June 25, 2001 10:37:27 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Gavia's Bristol & Union Jacks Ray says ... > Oh and for any Napoleonic types, Union flags before 1805 look different, > they're missing a cross. Thought that was 1801. . when Ireland came into the union Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:11:27 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: 'Flag' vs. 'Jack' Message-ID: <3B38980F.000001.51871@ray.bconnected.net> Union Flag is called a Union Jack because it is only flown from the Jack Staff (little flag pole on the sharp part of a ship, for us non nautical types) on Royal naval ships. I was also under the impression that the Union Jack was only flown under very specific circumstances from RN ships. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:02:54 +0000 From: xtv16@dial.pipex.com To: Subject: Re: 'Flag' vs. 'Jack' Message-ID: <993571374.3b38b22ea3950@netmail.pipex.net> I'm away from home at present, so cannot check, but IIRC the flag at the front is the 'jack', at the back is the ensign. Technically a UK merchant ship should fly the 'civil Jack, a Union flag with a white border The correct flying of the Union flag with the broad white stripe uppermost next to the flagpole is to show the supremacy of Scotland over Ireland (red stripe), as Scotland is the senior partner in the Union. When Scotland & England merged, the flag was designed by English Heralds with no reference to Scotland, thus the St Georges cross having 'supremacy' over the St Andrews one - completely wrong of course,as a Union they should have had equal prominence. Fascinating business flags, there was an article in one of the Sunday papers about all this. ot, any ship pre 1802 should have the original flags without the St Patricks cross. ot quick quiz - anyone know why the Hawaian state flag has a Union flag in it ? David (Who is now worried that his Bristol Scout may not have handed flags) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:50:22 -0600 From: john@huggins-leahey.com (John Huggins) To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Steve's ethical/legal question... my opinion Message-ID: > > On SteveĽs question: >> > that master after improving/correcting/detailing the kit pieces, is this a >> fair use if the intent is to sell kits. I do not mean knockoff copies, >> rather a mix of modified kit parts and scratchbuilt ones making up the >> master.> > >Thanks to all who have responded. > >I was thinking in terms that no kit part used in the master would be a >direct copy. All kit parts used would be modified in some way. > I think the legal folks define the process as the part is not a copy if there is a significant change made. From a prior life, I think this equates to about 10 percent or more. If you add bezels to an instrument panel, seat belts to a seat, or louvers to a panel, etc., then it is not a copy, but a modified part. John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:02:26 EDT From: NodalPoint@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Other Lists Message-ID: <79.16b0767d.286a0c12@aol.com> I know some of the folks on this list are interested in other model subjects in addition to WWI A/C. I'm wondering if there are any other mailing lists such as this for other subjects. I am also interested in WWII armor and would love to find a list for that topic. If it exists, I'd love to hear about it. Since this is ot, feel free to contact me off-list. Thanks, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:23:17 -0400 From: Karen Rychlewski To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Is there a list group meeting planned for Nats? Message-ID: <3B38B6F4.241A0385@earthlink.net> John Huggins wrote: > Dame Karen, > Any thoughts about changing the dinner to Thursday night. Some of > the list members may be judging on Friday and would miss out on the > get together. John, I have no problem with Thursday night either; I just thought that some folks might not be arriving until Friday. We could even schedule it for 8:30ish so Eric and other vendors could join us. And Michael's question is a good one: what's being judged on Friday. Lance wrote: > But I'm not going out in Chicago with him [Eric] dressed in his Luftwaffe > uniform, even if that gun IS loaded! > Probably a good idea: lots of Polish and Italians in the area who undoubtedly wouldn't appreciate the outfit Dame Karen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:36:40 EDT From: Andreikor@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Union Flag vs. Jack Message-ID: <114.d42528.286a1418@aol.com> Mark wrote: << Ahoy, to answer the question about whether it was correct to call it Union Flag or Union Jack, it goes back to a little naval terminology. >> Many thanks for the clarification, Mark! Cheers, Andrei ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:41:43 -0400 From: Karen Rychlewski To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Heaven... I'm in heaven... Message-ID: <3B38BB46.40311EF8@earthlink.net> See what you folks have done--this poor guy is in the terminal stage of AMS. Slovenian markings!! Next you'll have him painting five-color lozenge... :-) Dame Karen (who is listening to men drilling holes in her basement to install central air conditioning, and staying up much too late in a desperate attempt to finish the ot Polish armored car for Chicago) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:40:38 EDT From: Andreikor@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: How did we miss Mark? Message-ID: Mark wrote: << Hey guys I was there - but couldn't figure out where everybody was we arrived a little late, so I wasn't sure where to look >> Sorry we didn't see you there, Mark... you didn't notice a bunch of guys with roundels painted on their bellies??? Maybe you can make it back on Sept. 30? Cheers, Andrei ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:42:13 -0700 From: Myles Miller To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: OT Battlefield Archeology sites + UNESCO Heritage Sites Message-ID: <4.1.20010626090907.009f1300@mail> >>From: Karen Rychlewski >>Myles, thanks for the heads-up on this site. It is truly fascinating. Karen and listmembers: Agreed. The photos of the crane lifting out the battered and rusted but relatively well-preserved Mark IV tank are outstanding, as are the discussions of ongoing archeological studies of trench systems and burials. >>Scanning through the site, I happened across a link to the UNESCO World >>Heritage committee and the question "Shouldn't some part of the Western Front >>be a World Heritage site?" Darned good question, I thought! >>Even as we speak, the WH committee is meeting in Paris to discuss new sites. >>How can the ordinary person express a recommendation to this committee? >>Karen Looking over the UNESCO website http://www.unesco.org/whc/ , it seems that this involves some type of fomalized "State Party" entity that nominates important cultural and natural sites. So, I imagine it would take some grass roots efforts in the host countries (Belgium, France) to get their respective "State Parties" to consider a nomination of one or more sections of the Western Front. There is a comprehensive list of World Heritage Sites on the website ( http://www.unesco.org/whc/heritage.htm ) . I found no battle sites among the several hundred listed sites. With a little searching, you can also find a discussion of the "criteria for inclusion" of cultural properties in the World Heritage list. Having dealt with the nomination of historic and archeological sites to the National Register of Historic Places in the US, I can state that it may take a bit of creative tweaking to make the "Western Front" meet the criteria for inclusion. However - it could be done. Some more information can be obtained here: Inquiries should be sent to : UNESCO World Heritage Centre 7 Place de Fontenoy 75352 Paris 07 SP, France wh-info@unesco.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:57:31 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Is there a list group meeting planned for Nats? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010626095041.01c13b80@pop.amug.org> john, i would have no problems with that. i have tables in the upstairs vending room and will be arriving on wed afternoon or at least that is the plan. if it is anything like last year there will be a crowd around the table. my pleasure to help. lance, i ain't going out in public with the luft. uniform either i don't own enough guns or nads for that. inside the hotel in not in the public!! but remember that i am armed and thoroughly derelic!!!! i am looking forward to meeting all the faces i haven't seen and the one i have!! even you matt :) see ya in chicago!!!! eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:16:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Bittner To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Is there a list group meeting planned for Nats? Message-ID: <20010626171645.31131.qmail@web11702.mail.yahoo.com> --- ERIC HIGHT wrote: > even you matt :) Um, gee, thanks, I think. :-) Now the real test comes in avoiding the cameras... ;-) Too bad I really don't have the vampire's invisibility... Matt Bittner __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:21:29 -0500 From: Eli Geher To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Is there a list group meeting planned for Nats? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010626121607.021541c0@mail.hiwaay.net> At 12:27 PM 6/26/01 -0400, you wrote: >And Michael's question is a good one: what's being judged on Friday. The model contest is being judged Friday night. If you're planning on slipping a winner in on Saturday afternoon, just before the doors close, you're due for a surprise! Saturday is for spectators only. We started this last year at Dallas and it was regarded as very successful. Eli Geher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 19:21:49 +0200 From: "a.casirati@cornali-trasporti.it" To: "Wwi Modeling List (Posta elettronica)" Subject: Holidays Message-ID: <43EB244779F3D411966E0060082C59E906F012@SERVER1> Dear Listees, just a couple of lines to tell you all that I will leave for a seaside holiday on Saturday the 30th and will be back in the office on the 18th July. I will therefore go unsubbed on Friday the 29th. All the very best to you all, Alberto Casirati ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3475 **********************