WWI Digest 3280
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Eagle Srike lozenge decals
by REwing@aol.com
2) newspaper article
by REwing@aol.com
3) RE: A-Model katalog
by Volker Haeusler
4) RE: BE.2a
by Volker Haeusler
5) Magazine alert
by REwing@aol.com
6) News from Roden
by Volker Haeusler
7) Re: BE.2a
by "Steven M.Perry"
8) How many E-Groups members does it take to change a ligh...
by REwing@aol.com
9) Re: Jasta 11 Red
by NodalPoint@aol.com
10) Re: Emhar MkIV photos
by VMA324Vagabonds@aol.com
11) Re: Jasta 11 Red
by Todd Hayes
12) Cam's Models
by Andreikor@aol.com
13) Happy Easter all!
by Andreikor@aol.com
14) RE: Jasta 11 Red
by "Jay M. Thompson"
15) Re: newspaper article
by "Allen H Besser"
16) RE: Jasta 11 Red
by j@prendergast.tc
17) RE: The errors in the book : "Knights of the Air - Canadian Pilots in the Fir...
by "Gaston Graf"
18) RE: Jasta 11 Red
by "Gaston Graf"
19) Synchronizers (was Re: The errors in the book : "Knights of the
by "Bob Pearson"
20) Re: Jasta 11 Red
by LEONARDPeterL@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:52:41 EDT
From: REwing@aol.com
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: Re: Eagle Srike lozenge decals
Message-ID: <84.145d2a3d.280a58e9@aol.com>
Otis Goodin says,
"In case any of you haven't tried the new Eagle Strike lozenge decals I urge
you to give 'em a look. Several list members (Bob Laskodi, Steve Hustad and
yours truly) were involved in the development of these and are even given
credits in the instruction sheet. Eagle Strike is an offshoot of Aeromaster
so the quality is excellent. They even sell rib tapes separately so you
don't have to sorry about running out."
And I'll say this...These decals look absolutely great!! I have two
packages of the four color and just purchased the five color. Nice to know
that Otis, Bob, and Steve were in on these, because they look just right!
Now I need to get out an all lozenged plane to try them on. Nice work guys!!
-Rick-
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:22:13 EDT
From: REwing@aol.com
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: newspaper article
Message-ID:
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The following article appeared in the Saturday, April 14, 2001 issue of
"The Sacramento Bee":
WWI munitions fears spark evacuations
Vimy, France - Up to 15,000 people were being evacuated from their homes
in northern France on Friday because of fears that a stockpile of World War I
munitions could explode or leak toxic chemicals, including mustard gas.
Police and firefighters were going door to door, telling people to leave
their homes within 24 hours. Those being evacuated live within a two-mile
radius from a depot in the northern town of Vimy, where officials found signs
of cracking in some munitions containers at the storage site over the last
few days.
The Vimy depot is the main storage facility for a World War I
bomb-hunting team in nearby Arras, which receives thousands of calls each
year to collect stray weapons. The site holds 157 tons of munitions,
according to local government officials.
The officials said the stockpile contains shells of mustard gas, used in
World War I because of the irritating and blistering effects. Another
chemical believed present is phosgene - it also was used as a poison gas.
If anyone is interested in the full article, I will mail you a copy.
Thought it was a little interesting.
-Rick-
List Librarian
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The following article appeared in the Saturday, April 14, 2001 issue of
"The Sacramento Bee":
WWI munitions fears spark evacuations
Vimy, France - Up to 15,000 people were being evacuated from their homes
in northern France on Friday because of fears that a stockpile of World War I
munitions could explode or leak toxic chemicals, including mustard gas.
Police and firefighters were going door to door, telling people to leave
their homes within 24 hours. Those being evacuated live within a two-mile
radius from a depot in the northern town of Vimy, where officials found signs
of cracking in some munitions containers at the storage site over the last
few days.
<snip>
The Vimy depot is the main storage facility for a World War I
bomb-hunting team in nearby Arras, which receives thousands of calls each
year to collect stray weapons. The site holds 157 tons of munitions,
according to local government officials.
The officials said the stockpile contains shells of mustard gas, used in
World War I because of the irritating and blistering effects. Another
chemical believed present is phosgene - it also was used as a poison gas.
If anyone is interested in the full article, I will mail you a copy.
Thought it was a little interesting.
-Rick-
List Librarian
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:14:35 +0700
From: Volker Haeusler
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: RE: A-Model katalog
Message-ID:
WOW! They´re also bringing the (ot) IS 1 and IS 2 "folding wing" fighters
and the Anaconda! great stuff!
Volker
-----Original Message-----
From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of Matt
Bittner
Sent: 15 April 2001 07:41
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: A-Model katalog
On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:44:29 -0400 (EDT), Knut Erik Hagen wrote:
> You may find the OT pages from A-Models catalogue on:
> www.flankerman.fsnet.co.uk/amodel_p4.htm
If you're interested in seeing the whole 2001 catalog:
http://www.flankerman.fsnet.co.uk/amodel.htm. A lot of awesome VVS
"thingies", especially the Yak-4 and "Pegasas". I just received a
Yak-2 and am looking that over now. Sweet!
Matt Bittner
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:14:33 +0700
From: Volker Haeusler
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: RE: BE.2a
Message-ID:
Steve,
there is a 72 and 48 scale drawing of the BE 2/2a in the WS WW I Warplanes
vol 2. Measured from the front, the interplane struts are shown as 24 mm
long.
Are you doing the Phoenix vac?
Volker
-----Original Message-----
From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of Steven
M.Perry
Sent: 15 April 2001 04:14
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: BE.2a
Does anyone have a set of 1/72 drawings for a BE.2a? I need the length of
the mainplane struts.
TIA
sp
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:28:43 EDT
From: REwing@aol.com
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: Magazine alert
Message-ID:
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The following article can be found in the June 2001 issue of Military
History.
Taking Aim From the Trenches
by Craig Roberts
"Serving with the Canadian army during World War I, American sniper Herbert
W. McBride killed more enemy soldiers than most infantry companies."
-Rick-
List Librarian
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The following article can be found in the June 2001 issue of Military
History.
Taking Aim From the Trenches
by Craig Roberts
"Serving with the Canadian army during World War I, American sniper Herbert
W. McBride killed more enemy soldiers than most infantry companies."
-Rick-
List Librarian
--part1_c4.12b2cc49.280a615b_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:27:25 +0700
From: Volker Haeusler
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: News from Roden
Message-ID:
Just had a look at
http://www.rodenplant.com/HTML/frame.htm
again. Nothing really new, but they now include a total of 6 Fokker D VII
covers, including 5 in colour. That might indicate the D VII is coming soon
after the He 111 A they now promise for May. Interesting subjects with
Degelows stag, Neckel´s b&w striped Jasta 6 machine, Greims Jasta 34 bird,
beside the more usual Udet, Goering and Berthold machines. The covers again
show the substantial improvement in accuray over the earlier Toko schemes -
look for example for the Berthold machine with the streaked segment between
the red and blue areas. Oh yes, the Gotha G IV is now also shown in color!
Volker
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:40:19 -0400
From: "Steven M.Perry"
To:
Subject: Re: BE.2a
Message-ID: <000b01c0c555$6a425d00$bef0aec7@default>
>
> Are you doing the Phoenix vac?
>
> Volker
Re-doing. It's one BvB got.
sp
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:41:57 EDT
From: REwing@aol.com
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: How many E-Groups members does it take to change a ligh...
Message-ID: <28.13ff6092.280a6475@aol.com>
Though this probably belongs more on Rec.Models.Scale, I had to share it
with you all. Happy that our list is this bad!! -Rick-
How many E-group members does it take to change a light bulb?
>
> a.. 1,343
> b.. 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that
> the light bulb has been changed;
> c.. 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and
> how the light bulb could have been changed differently;
> d.. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs;
> e.. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about
> changing light bulbs;
> f.. 53 to flame the spell checkers;
> g.. 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames;
> h.. 6 to argue over whether it`s "lightbulb" or "light bulb";
> i.. another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive;
> j.. 156 to write to the list administrator about the light bulb
> discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list;
> k.. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to
> please take this email exchange to litebulb-l;
> l.. 203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and
> illuminati-l about changing light bulbs be stopped;
> m.. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use
> light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail list;
> n.. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is
> superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs
> work best for this technique and what brands are faulty;
> o.. 27 to post URL`s where one can see examples of different light
> bulbs;
> p.. 14 to post that the URL`s were posted incorrectly and to post
> the corrected URL`s;
> q.. 3 to post about links they found from the URL`s that are
> relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list;
> r.. 33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all
> headers and footers and then add "Me too";
> s.. 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because
> they cannot handle the light bulb controversy;
> t.. 19 to quote the "Me too`s" to say "Me three";
> u.. 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ;
> v.. 44 to ask what is "FAQ";
> w.. 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago on
"that other list"?"
> x.. 143 to ask "what's 'the other list'?"
> y.. 853 to pose the question -- "Should light bulbs be changed?"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:51:35 EDT
From: NodalPoint@aol.com
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: Re: Jasta 11 Red
Message-ID:
Thanks to all for the help with my question.
Todd mentioned the color plate in the Harleyford vonRichthofen book as being
painted to match a sample of fabric from MVR's tripe. I hadn't heard that
before, but it was actually what I've been using as a guide because it seems
to look most similar to the fabric sample that I saw. Maybe it mentions that
somewhere in the book, hard to find stuff in those Harleyfords sometimes!
The red does seem to be a dried blood color and that's how I would best
describe it. What has happened to the fabric samples over time, I don't know.
Perhaps it has gotten a bit darker, etc. For the 1/72 Albatros I'm working,
on I'm going to lighten it a bit anyway.
Steve
<< From: Todd Hayes
The color of the cover of the Harleyford "Richthofen"
book was taken from a sample of fabric from 425/17.
>>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:59:52 EDT
From: VMA324Vagabonds@aol.com
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: Re: Emhar MkIV photos
Message-ID: <3f.139bc752.280a68a8@aol.com>
Looks Great Cam, one question though, did you seal the pastels or leave them
till last after you sealed and dull coated? Thanks for sharing.
Best regards,
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:10:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Hayes
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: Re: Jasta 11 Red
Message-ID: <20010415031058.6147.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com>
Try page 144, 2nd column, 1st paragraph opposite MvR's
flying boot. "Presented by the widow of the late Air
Vice-Marshall Sir Francis Mellersh, K.B.E., A.F.C." My
copy is from 1964.
Todd
--- NodalPoint@aol.com wrote:
>
> Thanks to all for the help with my question.
>
> Todd mentioned the color plate in the Harleyford
> vonRichthofen book as being
> painted to match a sample of fabric from MVR's
> tripe. I hadn't heard that
> before, but it was actually what I've been using as
> a guide because it seems
> to look most similar to the fabric sample that I
> saw. Maybe it mentions that
> somewhere in the book, hard to find stuff in those
> Harleyfords sometimes!
>
> The red does seem to be a dried blood color and
> that's how I would best
> describe it. What has happened to the fabric samples
> over time, I don't know.
> Perhaps it has gotten a bit darker, etc. For the
> 1/72 Albatros I'm working,
> on I'm going to lighten it a bit anyway.
>
> Steve
>
> << From: Todd Hayes
>
> The color of the cover of the Harleyford
> "Richthofen"
> book was taken from a sample of fabric from 425/17.
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:20:48 EDT
From: Andreikor@aol.com
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: Cam's Models
Message-ID:
Nice job on the tin can, Cam... in fact, they all look great!
Cheers,
Andrei
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:22:21 EDT
From: Andreikor@aol.com
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: Happy Easter all!
Message-ID: <6b.12c38fe9.280a6ded@aol.com>
A Blessed and Happy Easter to all...
take a moment to thank God for our good fortunes and good friends :)
Cheers,
Andrei
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:54:10 -0500
From: "Jay M. Thompson"
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: RE: Jasta 11 Red
Message-ID:
That's interesting info- Dan-San seemed to believe that the black bits were
intentional, and integral part of the finish. He thought it was carbon black
added specifically to darken and increase the opacity of the finish, but
then again he had only that one piece. On the other hand, knowing Dan-San,
I've never known him to assert anything that he hasn't corroborated (at
least to his satisfaction) through more than one source.
As to its color accuracy, Dan-San's piece had been kept out of the light for
its entire life, except for brief periods for photography and reference, so
I'd say the dried blood metaphor is accurate for at least part of the
airframe.
I'd recommend anyone interested in the WWI aviation correspond or better yet
converse with Dan-San if you get the opportunity. He's a wonderful guy, and
his knowledge is frighteningly encyclopedic. A relatively innocent question
about how lozenge fabric was applied resulted in me (very happily) listening
to him for an hour explain in detail how lozenge fabric was stitched to the
wings, including descriptions of the thread, the needles, the stitching
pattern, and of course a ten minute exposition on the differences in
application procedure between Fokker, OAW, and Albatros...
-----Original Message-----
From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of
KarrArt@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 8:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Jasta 11 Red
In a message dated 4/14/01 12:33:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jan.vihonen@helsinki.fi writes:
<< Excepting perhaps MvR's own plane of which there are
samples existing, as has already been stated.
>>
bits from Toelle's analysis of DSA's MvR triplane sample:
"The red colorant is vermillion(mercuric sulphide)....extended with
barytes(barium sulphate). Black particulate, thought to be unburned soot
from
the fuel or lubricant is embedded in some specimens which results in a
noticable variation of the red color. Both the black and baryte particles
are
large compared to the thickness of the coating. This produces a rough
surface
which further darkens the perceived color. The vermillion pigment is very
finely ground and is bright red when viewed at a magnification which allows
one to neglect the visual effect of the soot..............
The examined specimens do not appear to be damaged, faded, yellowed or
otherwise distressed in any way which would abnormally affect the observed
color, except for the embedded soot and for a shift in the refractive index
of the paint vehicle due to age.........
underlying the red coating is a layer of slightly-yellowed cloudy clear
dope.....
the general appearance is like rough pigskin- a strawberry jam color- with
lumps of black coal......
The black material varied widely in apparant size...probably composed of
undispersed material. This suggests that the black was not present in the
original paint......
the colorant is not.......organic lithol red....alizarin red...iron
oxide....red lead....chrome orange...chrome yellow...cadmium red
"the black particulate is only present along the bottom of the
fuselage(samples he's seen..RK)"
There's a lot more in depth stuff in the article, from WW I Aero no167, but,
at least real vermillion is named as the basic pigment, with some engine
crud
embedded in in it. Next time anyone's in an art suplly store, look at a tube
of "vermillion"- I don't know if the stuff on the market these days is
really
mercury-based anymore, but the tubes I've seen really do look like the old
stuff.
RK
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:33:15 -0400
From: "Allen H Besser"
To:
Subject: Re: newspaper article
Message-ID: <008d01c0c565$31d22bc0$3ac4393f@compaq-computer>
Yes, sounds very interesting. I talk about such topics with friends who
hold WWI in MUCH higher regard than the general public (who don't
realize it really didn't end until about 10 years ago).
Would be nice if you could e-mail me the whole article.
TIA, Al Besser
-----Original Message-----
From: REwing@aol.com
To: Multiple recipients of list
Date: Saturday, April 14, 2001 10:27 PM
Subject: newspaper article
>
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>
> The following article appeared in the Saturday, April 14, 2001
issue of
>"The Sacramento Bee":
>WWI munitions fears spark evacuations
>
> Vimy, France - Up to 15,000 people were being evacuated from their
homes
>in northern France on Friday because of fears that a stockpile of World
War I
>munitions could explode or leak toxic chemicals, including mustard gas.
> Police and firefighters were going door to door, telling people to
leave
>their homes within 24 hours. Those being evacuated live within a
two-mile
>radius from a depot in the northern town of Vimy, where officials found
signs
>of cracking in some munitions containers at the storage site over the
last
>few days.
>
> The Vimy depot is the main storage facility for a World War I
>bomb-hunting team in nearby Arras, which receives thousands of calls
each
>year to collect stray weapons. The site holds 157 tons of munitions,
>according to local government officials.
> The officials said the stockpile contains shells of mustard gas,
used in
>World War I because of the irritating and blistering effects. Another
>chemical believed present is phosgene - it also was used as a poison
gas.
>
> If anyone is interested in the full article, I will mail you a
copy.
>Thought it was a little interesting.
>
>-Rick-
>List Librarian
>
>
>--part1_d7.51750c5.280a5fd5_boundary
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> The following
article appeared in the Saturday, April 14, 2001 issue of
>
"The Sacramento Bee":
>
WWI munitions fears spark evacuations
>
>
Vimy, France - Up to 15,000
people were being evacuated from their homes
>
in northern France on Friday because of fears that a stockpile of
World War I
>
munitions could explode or leak toxic chemicals, including mustard
gas.
>
Police and firefighters were going door to
door, telling people to leave
>
their homes within 24 hours. Those being evacuated live
within a two-mile
>
radius from a depot in the northern town of Vimy, where officials
found signs
>
of cracking in some munitions containers at the storage site over
the last
>
few days.
>
<snip>
>
The Vimy depot is the main storage facility for
a World War I
>
bomb-hunting team in nearby Arras, which receives thousands of
calls each
>
year to collect stray weapons. The site holds 157 tons of
munitions,
>
according to local government officials.
>
The officials said the stockpile contains
shells of mustard gas, used in
>
World War I because of the irritating and blistering effects.
Another
>
chemical believed present is phosgene - it also was used as a
poison gas.
>
>
If anyone is interested in the full article, I
will mail you a copy.
>
Thought it was a little interesting.
>
>
-Rick-
>
List Librarian
>
>
>--part1_d7.51750c5.280a5fd5_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: 15 Apr 2001 08:36:19 -0000
From: j@prendergast.tc
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: RE: Jasta 11 Red
Message-ID: <20010415083619.5802.qmail@www1.nameplanet.com>
On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 02:56:12 -0400 (EDT) "Gaston Graf" wrote:
>I never did any research on the color of MvRs Dr.1 but this explanation
>sounds logical to me, when I look at the pictures of his aircraft where the
>overall red appears very dark. It certainly was not as bright as the red of
>a firetruck but still red enough for not being brown. That gives me the idea
>it maybe was as red as the color of my car, which is called "Imperial Red" -
>a dark red, almost like blood.
>
> Gaston Graf
>(ggraf@vo.lu)
>Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at:
>http://www.jastaboelcke.de
>
>>
>>
>Couldn't agree more re the red being the colour of dried blood. I have a
sample of the real thing that came originally from a guy who was from Gunner
Ridgeway's unit. It is only about 1 inch square and under artificial light it
is far darker than the cloth covering of the Harborough book. Perhaps this is
the effect of oil varnish darkening the shade over the past 83 years. Probably
would have been a helluva lot brighter when first applied. Now it would be close
to either Methuen 11F5 or 6. The inside is natural fabric.
Jim P
> I was talking to Dan-San
Abbott about this, and he also had a
>> piece (sold it
>> semi-recently) of fabric from MVR's 425/17. He said if I wanted
>> to match the
>> color, get a white sheet of paper, stick my finger with a pin, and let a
>> couple drops fall on the paper. Then let it dry. He said the color was
>> basically identical to that. Technically, as I recall, he
>> explained that it
>> was so dark because the dope was clear with a red dye, to which a
>> significant amount of carbon black had been added, such that you could see
>> the black particles clearly under a magnifying lens.
>>
>> Anyway, that Dan's 2 cents, and I tend to trust him;-) I don't
>> know whether
>> that's an accurate match for the red used by Jasta 11.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of
>> NodalPoint@aol.com
>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:23 PM
>> To: Multiple recipients of list
>> Subject: Jasta 11 Red
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm curious to what paints people are using to model the red markings on
>> Jasta 11 aircraft.
>>
>> The only examples I've seen is supposed fabric from MvR's tripe in an
>> acrylic
>> cube at several museums. That appeared to me to be almost maroon.
>> Very dark
>> in color.
>>
>> I'm sure this is open to a lot of interpetation but some opinions would be
>> great. I usually use Model Master acrylics and am wondering what
>> people mix
>> to come up with that shade.
>>
>> I just saw something called Boyd Red, which I believe is a brand
>> of Testors
>> enamel, that seems close to the preserved fabric I have seen.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve
--
Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:46:03 +0200
From: "Gaston Graf"
To:
Subject: RE: The errors in the book : "Knights of the Air - Canadian Pilots in the Fir...
Message-ID:
Can you please tell me the sources where you got that info from? All that I
know is that Lübbe has somewhat stolen die idea from Schneider but Schneider
was unable to sue him because Lübbe and the Fokker Company profited from the
protection by the German army leaders. But I would be highly interested to
learn more about the backbround story of the interruptor gear. The
interruptor was the first idea, where a cam pushed a rod that blocked the
trigger of the machinegun but later there was some kind of a synchronizer
gear developed. IIrc the Allies introduced a hydraulical gear developed by a
Romanian engineer, but again I have no detailed info on that.
Gaston Graf
(ggraf@vo.lu)
Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at:
http://www.jastaboelcke.de
> << Heinrich L=FCbbe who did it
> for him after a patent of Franz Schneider already presented in 1912 >>
>
> Actually, Schneider was a grumpy old fart, and his gear had
> nothing to do=20
> with the Fokker company gear. One was a synchronizer and one was an=20
> interupter (I can't remember which was which). The only thing in
> common was=20
> that both were mechanical systems. His patent showed a totally
> non-practical=
> =20
> device with very few details. Schneider had somewhat of a
> reputation for=20
> being a credit hog.
> RK
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:57:34 +0200
From: "Gaston Graf"
To:
Subject: RE: Jasta 11 Red
Message-ID:
Altough I believe every word of the experts who say that the color of the
samples is very dark it sounds also logical to me that it was still red as
it was fresh. Wouldn't eye wittness' have talked about the Dr.1 being DARK
red or red brown if it were that dark it is now described as? But all that I
know is that MvRs aircraft usually was described as being BRIGHT red. That's
for me the main question when I think about building the model. Therefore it
sounds more logical to me that the original color was a dark red resembling
much of fresh blood, but not a brownish red of dried blood (gore?). Is there
a difference for the English speaking folks between dried blood and gore? I
wonder.
I think the question about the color of MvRs aircraft is as controversial as
the question regarding the person who fired the fatal bullet.
Gaston Graf
(ggraf@vo.lu)
Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at:
http://www.jastaboelcke.de
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of
> j@prendergast.tc
> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 10:41 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: RE: Jasta 11 Red
>
>
> On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 02:56:12 -0400 (EDT) "Gaston Graf"
> wrote:
> >I never did any research on the color of MvRs Dr.1 but this explanation
> >sounds logical to me, when I look at the pictures of his
> aircraft where the
> >overall red appears very dark. It certainly was not as bright as
> the red of
> >a firetruck but still red enough for not being brown. That gives
> me the idea
> >it maybe was as red as the color of my car, which is called
> "Imperial Red" -
> >a dark red, almost like blood.
> >
> > Gaston Graf
> >(ggraf@vo.lu)
> >Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at:
> >http://www.jastaboelcke.de
> >
> >>
> >>
> >Couldn't agree more re the red being the colour of dried blood.
> I have a
> sample of the real thing that came originally from a guy who was
> from Gunner
> Ridgeway's unit. It is only about 1 inch square and under
> artificial light it
> is far darker than the cloth covering of the Harborough book.
> Perhaps this is
> the effect of oil varnish darkening the shade over the past 83
> years. Probably
> would have been a helluva lot brighter when first applied. Now it
> would be close
> to either Methuen 11F5 or 6. The inside is natural fabric.
>
> Jim P
> > I was
> talking to Dan-San
> Abbott about this, and he also had a
> >> piece (sold it
> >> semi-recently) of fabric from MVR's 425/17. He said if I wanted
> >> to match the
> >> color, get a white sheet of paper, stick my finger with a pin,
> and let a
> >> couple drops fall on the paper. Then let it dry. He said the color was
> >> basically identical to that. Technically, as I recall, he
> >> explained that it
> >> was so dark because the dope was clear with a red dye, to which a
> >> significant amount of carbon black had been added, such that
> you could see
> >> the black particles clearly under a magnifying lens.
> >>
> >> Anyway, that Dan's 2 cents, and I tend to trust him;-) I don't
> >> know whether
> >> that's an accurate match for the red used by Jasta 11.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of
> >> NodalPoint@aol.com
> >> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:23 PM
> >> To: Multiple recipients of list
> >> Subject: Jasta 11 Red
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I'm curious to what paints people are using to model the red
> markings on
> >> Jasta 11 aircraft.
> >>
> >> The only examples I've seen is supposed fabric from MvR's tripe in an
> >> acrylic
> >> cube at several museums. That appeared to me to be almost maroon.
> >> Very dark
> >> in color.
> >>
> >> I'm sure this is open to a lot of interpetation but some
> opinions would be
> >> great. I usually use Model Master acrylics and am wondering what
> >> people mix
> >> to come up with that shade.
> >>
> >> I just saw something called Boyd Red, which I believe is a brand
> >> of Testors
> >> enamel, that seems close to the preserved fabric I have seen.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Steve
>
>
> --
> Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 02:01:33 -0700
From: "Bob Pearson"
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: Synchronizers (was Re: The errors in the book : "Knights of the
Message-ID: <200104150054.f3F0sPc92604@mail.rapidnet.net>
WW1 Aero published an excellent multi-part series on the various
interrupter/synchronizer designs. Its been a couple of years since my
subscription lapsed and I never got around to adding WW1 Aero to my index of
WW1 journals, so someone else will have to give the particulars on issue
number.
The Roumanian was Constantinesco, his synchronizing gear was known as the
C.C. gear. All of this is covered in the WW1 Aero series. It has detailed
explanations as well as drawings of all the ideas tried.
Bob
----------
>From: "Gaston Graf"
>To: Multiple recipients of list
>Subject: RE: The errors in the book : "Knights of the Air - Canadian Pilots in
the Fir...
>Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2001, 1:51 am
>
> Can you please tell me the sources where you got that info from? All that I
> know is that Lübbe has somewhat stolen die idea from Schneider but Schneider
> was unable to sue him because Lübbe and the Fokker Company profited from the
> protection by the German army leaders. But I would be highly interested to
> learn more about the background story of the interruptor gear. The
> interruptor was the first idea, where a cam pushed a rod that blocked the
> trigger of the machinegun but later there was some kind of a synchronizer
> gear developed. IIrc the Allies introduced a hydraulical gear developed by a
> Romanian engineer, but again I have no detailed info on that.
>
> Gaston Graf
> (ggraf@vo.lu)
> Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at:
> http://www.jastaboelcke.de
>
>> RK
>>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 05:23:08 EDT
From: LEONARDPeterL@aol.com
To: wwi@wwi-models.org
Subject: Re: Jasta 11 Red
Message-ID: <92.1330eb08.280ac27c@aol.com>
Some years ago I did carry out a small scale experiment (Jeez! How anal does
this make me?) having seen a similar fabric sample close up at Hendon, which
appeared dark and very much as described in the previous posts.
I prepared a piece of fabric about 2ft square, fixed it to a frame and doped
it streaky green according the method outlined in the various articles I am
sure we have all seen. I also included a small area of black and white to see
the effect on the national markings. Finally the whole thing was given a very
thin coat of red.
To my eye the whole effect was very like the Hendon sample ( which BTW looked
like a piece of airleron fabric) and I was quite pleased with myself. The
object though was to see what it would look like at a distance . From about
50 yards, there was a marked difference, Scarlet is the only word for it.
This was a decidedly unscientific experiment. The dopes and pigments used
were nothing like the original. But I was as faithful to the colours and
shades as I could be. Even so I reach no conclusion except that I certainly
would not deride anyone from either the "Scarlet Triplane" or "Blood Red
Fokker" schools of thought.
no help at all
Peter L
------------------------------
End of WWI Digest 3280
**********************