WWI Digest 3280 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Eagle Srike lozenge decals by REwing@aol.com 2) newspaper article by REwing@aol.com 3) RE: A-Model katalog by Volker Haeusler 4) RE: BE.2a by Volker Haeusler 5) Magazine alert by REwing@aol.com 6) News from Roden by Volker Haeusler 7) Re: BE.2a by "Steven M.Perry" 8) How many E-Groups members does it take to change a ligh... by REwing@aol.com 9) Re: Jasta 11 Red by NodalPoint@aol.com 10) Re: Emhar MkIV photos by VMA324Vagabonds@aol.com 11) Re: Jasta 11 Red by Todd Hayes 12) Cam's Models by Andreikor@aol.com 13) Happy Easter all! by Andreikor@aol.com 14) RE: Jasta 11 Red by "Jay M. Thompson" 15) Re: newspaper article by "Allen H Besser" 16) RE: Jasta 11 Red by j@prendergast.tc 17) RE: The errors in the book : "Knights of the Air - Canadian Pilots in the Fir... by "Gaston Graf" 18) RE: Jasta 11 Red by "Gaston Graf" 19) Synchronizers (was Re: The errors in the book : "Knights of the by "Bob Pearson" 20) Re: Jasta 11 Red by LEONARDPeterL@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:52:41 EDT From: REwing@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Eagle Srike lozenge decals Message-ID: <84.145d2a3d.280a58e9@aol.com> Otis Goodin says, "In case any of you haven't tried the new Eagle Strike lozenge decals I urge you to give 'em a look. Several list members (Bob Laskodi, Steve Hustad and yours truly) were involved in the development of these and are even given credits in the instruction sheet. Eagle Strike is an offshoot of Aeromaster so the quality is excellent. They even sell rib tapes separately so you don't have to sorry about running out." And I'll say this...These decals look absolutely great!! I have two packages of the four color and just purchased the five color. Nice to know that Otis, Bob, and Steve were in on these, because they look just right! Now I need to get out an all lozenged plane to try them on. Nice work guys!! -Rick- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:22:13 EDT From: REwing@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: newspaper article Message-ID: --part1_d7.51750c5.280a5fd5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following article appeared in the Saturday, April 14, 2001 issue of "The Sacramento Bee": WWI munitions fears spark evacuations Vimy, France - Up to 15,000 people were being evacuated from their homes in northern France on Friday because of fears that a stockpile of World War I munitions could explode or leak toxic chemicals, including mustard gas. Police and firefighters were going door to door, telling people to leave their homes within 24 hours. Those being evacuated live within a two-mile radius from a depot in the northern town of Vimy, where officials found signs of cracking in some munitions containers at the storage site over the last few days. The Vimy depot is the main storage facility for a World War I bomb-hunting team in nearby Arras, which receives thousands of calls each year to collect stray weapons. The site holds 157 tons of munitions, according to local government officials. The officials said the stockpile contains shells of mustard gas, used in World War I because of the irritating and blistering effects. Another chemical believed present is phosgene - it also was used as a poison gas. If anyone is interested in the full article, I will mail you a copy. Thought it was a little interesting. -Rick- List Librarian --part1_d7.51750c5.280a5fd5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    The following article appeared in the Saturday, April 14, 2001 issue of
"The Sacramento Bee":

WWI munitions fears spark evacuations

    Vimy, France - Up to 15,000 people were being evacuated from their homes
in northern France on Friday because of fears that a stockpile of World War I
munitions could explode or leak toxic chemicals, including mustard gas.
    Police and firefighters were going door to door, telling people to leave
their homes within 24 hours.  Those being evacuated live within a two-mile
radius from a depot in the northern town of Vimy, where officials found signs
of cracking in some munitions containers at the storage site over the last
few days.
   <snip>
   The Vimy depot is the main storage facility for a World War I
bomb-hunting team in nearby Arras, which receives thousands of calls each
year to collect stray weapons.  The site holds 157 tons of munitions,
according to local government officials.
    The officials said the stockpile contains shells of mustard gas, used in
World War I because of the irritating and blistering effects.  Another
chemical believed present is phosgene - it also was used as a poison gas.  

   If anyone is interested in the full article, I will mail you a copy.  
Thought it was a little interesting.

-Rick-
List Librarian

--part1_d7.51750c5.280a5fd5_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:14:35 +0700 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: A-Model katalog Message-ID: WOW! They´re also bringing the (ot) IS 1 and IS 2 "folding wing" fighters and the Anaconda! great stuff! Volker -----Original Message----- From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of Matt Bittner Sent: 15 April 2001 07:41 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A-Model katalog On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:44:29 -0400 (EDT), Knut Erik Hagen wrote: > You may find the OT pages from A-Models catalogue on: > www.flankerman.fsnet.co.uk/amodel_p4.htm If you're interested in seeing the whole 2001 catalog: http://www.flankerman.fsnet.co.uk/amodel.htm. A lot of awesome VVS "thingies", especially the Yak-4 and "Pegasas". I just received a Yak-2 and am looking that over now. Sweet! Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:14:33 +0700 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: BE.2a Message-ID: Steve, there is a 72 and 48 scale drawing of the BE 2/2a in the WS WW I Warplanes vol 2. Measured from the front, the interplane struts are shown as 24 mm long. Are you doing the Phoenix vac? Volker -----Original Message----- From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of Steven M.Perry Sent: 15 April 2001 04:14 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: BE.2a Does anyone have a set of 1/72 drawings for a BE.2a? I need the length of the mainplane struts. TIA sp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:28:43 EDT From: REwing@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Magazine alert Message-ID: --part1_c4.12b2cc49.280a615b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following article can be found in the June 2001 issue of Military History. Taking Aim From the Trenches by Craig Roberts "Serving with the Canadian army during World War I, American sniper Herbert W. McBride killed more enemy soldiers than most infantry companies." -Rick- List Librarian --part1_c4.12b2cc49.280a615b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 The following article can be found in the June 2001 issue of Military
History.

Taking Aim From the Trenches
by Craig Roberts
"Serving with the Canadian army during World War I, American sniper Herbert
W. McBride killed more enemy soldiers than most infantry companies."

-Rick-
List Librarian

--part1_c4.12b2cc49.280a615b_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:27:25 +0700 From: Volker Haeusler To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: News from Roden Message-ID: Just had a look at http://www.rodenplant.com/HTML/frame.htm again. Nothing really new, but they now include a total of 6 Fokker D VII covers, including 5 in colour. That might indicate the D VII is coming soon after the He 111 A they now promise for May. Interesting subjects with Degelows stag, Neckel´s b&w striped Jasta 6 machine, Greims Jasta 34 bird, beside the more usual Udet, Goering and Berthold machines. The covers again show the substantial improvement in accuray over the earlier Toko schemes - look for example for the Berthold machine with the streaked segment between the red and blue areas. Oh yes, the Gotha G IV is now also shown in color! Volker ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:40:19 -0400 From: "Steven M.Perry" To: Subject: Re: BE.2a Message-ID: <000b01c0c555$6a425d00$bef0aec7@default> > > Are you doing the Phoenix vac? > > Volker Re-doing. It's one BvB got. sp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:41:57 EDT From: REwing@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: How many E-Groups members does it take to change a ligh... Message-ID: <28.13ff6092.280a6475@aol.com> Though this probably belongs more on Rec.Models.Scale, I had to share it with you all. Happy that our list is this bad!! -Rick- How many E-group members does it take to change a light bulb? > > a.. 1,343 > b.. 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that > the light bulb has been changed; > c.. 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and > how the light bulb could have been changed differently; > d.. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs; > e.. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about > changing light bulbs; > f.. 53 to flame the spell checkers; > g.. 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames; > h.. 6 to argue over whether it`s "lightbulb" or "light bulb"; > i.. another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive; > j.. 156 to write to the list administrator about the light bulb > discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list; > k.. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to > please take this email exchange to litebulb-l; > l.. 203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and > illuminati-l about changing light bulbs be stopped; > m.. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use > light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail list; > n.. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is > superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs > work best for this technique and what brands are faulty; > o.. 27 to post URL`s where one can see examples of different light > bulbs; > p.. 14 to post that the URL`s were posted incorrectly and to post > the corrected URL`s; > q.. 3 to post about links they found from the URL`s that are > relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list; > r.. 33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all > headers and footers and then add "Me too"; > s.. 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because > they cannot handle the light bulb controversy; > t.. 19 to quote the "Me too`s" to say "Me three"; > u.. 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ; > v.. 44 to ask what is "FAQ"; > w.. 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago on "that other list"?" > x.. 143 to ask "what's 'the other list'?" > y.. 853 to pose the question -- "Should light bulbs be changed?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:51:35 EDT From: NodalPoint@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Jasta 11 Red Message-ID: Thanks to all for the help with my question. Todd mentioned the color plate in the Harleyford vonRichthofen book as being painted to match a sample of fabric from MVR's tripe. I hadn't heard that before, but it was actually what I've been using as a guide because it seems to look most similar to the fabric sample that I saw. Maybe it mentions that somewhere in the book, hard to find stuff in those Harleyfords sometimes! The red does seem to be a dried blood color and that's how I would best describe it. What has happened to the fabric samples over time, I don't know. Perhaps it has gotten a bit darker, etc. For the 1/72 Albatros I'm working, on I'm going to lighten it a bit anyway. Steve << From: Todd Hayes The color of the cover of the Harleyford "Richthofen" book was taken from a sample of fabric from 425/17. >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:59:52 EDT From: VMA324Vagabonds@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Emhar MkIV photos Message-ID: <3f.139bc752.280a68a8@aol.com> Looks Great Cam, one question though, did you seal the pastels or leave them till last after you sealed and dull coated? Thanks for sharing. Best regards, Jon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:10:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Jasta 11 Red Message-ID: <20010415031058.6147.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com> Try page 144, 2nd column, 1st paragraph opposite MvR's flying boot. "Presented by the widow of the late Air Vice-Marshall Sir Francis Mellersh, K.B.E., A.F.C." My copy is from 1964. Todd --- NodalPoint@aol.com wrote: > > Thanks to all for the help with my question. > > Todd mentioned the color plate in the Harleyford > vonRichthofen book as being > painted to match a sample of fabric from MVR's > tripe. I hadn't heard that > before, but it was actually what I've been using as > a guide because it seems > to look most similar to the fabric sample that I > saw. Maybe it mentions that > somewhere in the book, hard to find stuff in those > Harleyfords sometimes! > > The red does seem to be a dried blood color and > that's how I would best > describe it. What has happened to the fabric samples > over time, I don't know. > Perhaps it has gotten a bit darker, etc. For the > 1/72 Albatros I'm working, > on I'm going to lighten it a bit anyway. > > Steve > > << From: Todd Hayes > > The color of the cover of the Harleyford > "Richthofen" > book was taken from a sample of fabric from 425/17. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:20:48 EDT From: Andreikor@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Cam's Models Message-ID: Nice job on the tin can, Cam... in fact, they all look great! Cheers, Andrei ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:22:21 EDT From: Andreikor@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Happy Easter all! Message-ID: <6b.12c38fe9.280a6ded@aol.com> A Blessed and Happy Easter to all... take a moment to thank God for our good fortunes and good friends :) Cheers, Andrei ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:54:10 -0500 From: "Jay M. Thompson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Jasta 11 Red Message-ID: That's interesting info- Dan-San seemed to believe that the black bits were intentional, and integral part of the finish. He thought it was carbon black added specifically to darken and increase the opacity of the finish, but then again he had only that one piece. On the other hand, knowing Dan-San, I've never known him to assert anything that he hasn't corroborated (at least to his satisfaction) through more than one source. As to its color accuracy, Dan-San's piece had been kept out of the light for its entire life, except for brief periods for photography and reference, so I'd say the dried blood metaphor is accurate for at least part of the airframe. I'd recommend anyone interested in the WWI aviation correspond or better yet converse with Dan-San if you get the opportunity. He's a wonderful guy, and his knowledge is frighteningly encyclopedic. A relatively innocent question about how lozenge fabric was applied resulted in me (very happily) listening to him for an hour explain in detail how lozenge fabric was stitched to the wings, including descriptions of the thread, the needles, the stitching pattern, and of course a ten minute exposition on the differences in application procedure between Fokker, OAW, and Albatros... -----Original Message----- From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of KarrArt@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 8:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Jasta 11 Red In a message dated 4/14/01 12:33:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jan.vihonen@helsinki.fi writes: << Excepting perhaps MvR's own plane of which there are samples existing, as has already been stated. >> bits from Toelle's analysis of DSA's MvR triplane sample: "The red colorant is vermillion(mercuric sulphide)....extended with barytes(barium sulphate). Black particulate, thought to be unburned soot from the fuel or lubricant is embedded in some specimens which results in a noticable variation of the red color. Both the black and baryte particles are large compared to the thickness of the coating. This produces a rough surface which further darkens the perceived color. The vermillion pigment is very finely ground and is bright red when viewed at a magnification which allows one to neglect the visual effect of the soot.............. The examined specimens do not appear to be damaged, faded, yellowed or otherwise distressed in any way which would abnormally affect the observed color, except for the embedded soot and for a shift in the refractive index of the paint vehicle due to age......... underlying the red coating is a layer of slightly-yellowed cloudy clear dope..... the general appearance is like rough pigskin- a strawberry jam color- with lumps of black coal...... The black material varied widely in apparant size...probably composed of undispersed material. This suggests that the black was not present in the original paint...... the colorant is not.......organic lithol red....alizarin red...iron oxide....red lead....chrome orange...chrome yellow...cadmium red "the black particulate is only present along the bottom of the fuselage(samples he's seen..RK)" There's a lot more in depth stuff in the article, from WW I Aero no167, but, at least real vermillion is named as the basic pigment, with some engine crud embedded in in it. Next time anyone's in an art suplly store, look at a tube of "vermillion"- I don't know if the stuff on the market these days is really mercury-based anymore, but the tubes I've seen really do look like the old stuff. RK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:33:15 -0400 From: "Allen H Besser" To: Subject: Re: newspaper article Message-ID: <008d01c0c565$31d22bc0$3ac4393f@compaq-computer> Yes, sounds very interesting. I talk about such topics with friends who hold WWI in MUCH higher regard than the general public (who don't realize it really didn't end until about 10 years ago). Would be nice if you could e-mail me the whole article. TIA, Al Besser -----Original Message----- From: REwing@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Saturday, April 14, 2001 10:27 PM Subject: newspaper article > >--part1_d7.51750c5.280a5fd5_boundary >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > The following article appeared in the Saturday, April 14, 2001 issue of >"The Sacramento Bee": >WWI munitions fears spark evacuations > > Vimy, France - Up to 15,000 people were being evacuated from their homes >in northern France on Friday because of fears that a stockpile of World War I >munitions could explode or leak toxic chemicals, including mustard gas. > Police and firefighters were going door to door, telling people to leave >their homes within 24 hours. Those being evacuated live within a two-mile >radius from a depot in the northern town of Vimy, where officials found signs >of cracking in some munitions containers at the storage site over the last >few days. > > The Vimy depot is the main storage facility for a World War I >bomb-hunting team in nearby Arras, which receives thousands of calls each >year to collect stray weapons. The site holds 157 tons of munitions, >according to local government officials. > The officials said the stockpile contains shells of mustard gas, used in >World War I because of the irritating and blistering effects. Another >chemical believed present is phosgene - it also was used as a poison gas. > > If anyone is interested in the full article, I will mail you a copy. >Thought it was a little interesting. > >-Rick- >List Librarian > > >--part1_d7.51750c5.280a5fd5_boundary >Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >    The following article appeared in the Saturday, April 14, 2001 issue of >
"The Sacramento Bee": >

WWI munitions fears spark evacuations >
>

    Vimy, France - Up to 15,000 people were being evacuated from their homes >
in northern France on Friday because of fears that a stockpile of World War I >
munitions could explode or leak toxic chemicals, including mustard gas. >
    Police and firefighters were going door to door, telling people to leave >
their homes within 24 hours.  Those being evacuated live within a two-mile >
radius from a depot in the northern town of Vimy, where officials found signs >
of cracking in some munitions containers at the storage site over the last >
few days. >
   <snip> >
   The Vimy depot is the main storage facility for a World War I >
bomb-hunting team in nearby Arras, which receives thousands of calls each >
year to collect stray weapons.  The site holds 157 tons of munitions, >
according to local government officials. >
    The officials said the stockpile contains shells of mustard gas, used in >
World War I because of the irritating and blistering effects.  Another >
chemical believed present is phosgene - it also was used as a poison gas.   >
>
   If anyone is interested in the full article, I will mail you a copy.   >
Thought it was a little interesting. >
>

-Rick- >
List Librarian >

> >--part1_d7.51750c5.280a5fd5_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 2001 08:36:19 -0000 From: j@prendergast.tc To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: RE: Jasta 11 Red Message-ID: <20010415083619.5802.qmail@www1.nameplanet.com> On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 02:56:12 -0400 (EDT) "Gaston Graf" wrote: >I never did any research on the color of MvRs Dr.1 but this explanation >sounds logical to me, when I look at the pictures of his aircraft where the >overall red appears very dark. It certainly was not as bright as the red of >a firetruck but still red enough for not being brown. That gives me the idea >it maybe was as red as the color of my car, which is called "Imperial Red" - >a dark red, almost like blood. > > Gaston Graf >(ggraf@vo.lu) >Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: >http://www.jastaboelcke.de > >> >> >Couldn't agree more re the red being the colour of dried blood. I have a sample of the real thing that came originally from a guy who was from Gunner Ridgeway's unit. It is only about 1 inch square and under artificial light it is far darker than the cloth covering of the Harborough book. Perhaps this is the effect of oil varnish darkening the shade over the past 83 years. Probably would have been a helluva lot brighter when first applied. Now it would be close to either Methuen 11F5 or 6. The inside is natural fabric. Jim P > I was talking to Dan-San Abbott about this, and he also had a >> piece (sold it >> semi-recently) of fabric from MVR's 425/17. He said if I wanted >> to match the >> color, get a white sheet of paper, stick my finger with a pin, and let a >> couple drops fall on the paper. Then let it dry. He said the color was >> basically identical to that. Technically, as I recall, he >> explained that it >> was so dark because the dope was clear with a red dye, to which a >> significant amount of carbon black had been added, such that you could see >> the black particles clearly under a magnifying lens. >> >> Anyway, that Dan's 2 cents, and I tend to trust him;-) I don't >> know whether >> that's an accurate match for the red used by Jasta 11. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of >> NodalPoint@aol.com >> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:23 PM >> To: Multiple recipients of list >> Subject: Jasta 11 Red >> >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm curious to what paints people are using to model the red markings on >> Jasta 11 aircraft. >> >> The only examples I've seen is supposed fabric from MvR's tripe in an >> acrylic >> cube at several museums. That appeared to me to be almost maroon. >> Very dark >> in color. >> >> I'm sure this is open to a lot of interpetation but some opinions would be >> great. I usually use Model Master acrylics and am wondering what >> people mix >> to come up with that shade. >> >> I just saw something called Boyd Red, which I believe is a brand >> of Testors >> enamel, that seems close to the preserved fabric I have seen. >> >> Thanks, >> Steve -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:46:03 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: RE: The errors in the book : "Knights of the Air - Canadian Pilots in the Fir... Message-ID: Can you please tell me the sources where you got that info from? All that I know is that Lübbe has somewhat stolen die idea from Schneider but Schneider was unable to sue him because Lübbe and the Fokker Company profited from the protection by the German army leaders. But I would be highly interested to learn more about the backbround story of the interruptor gear. The interruptor was the first idea, where a cam pushed a rod that blocked the trigger of the machinegun but later there was some kind of a synchronizer gear developed. IIrc the Allies introduced a hydraulical gear developed by a Romanian engineer, but again I have no detailed info on that. Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > << Heinrich L=FCbbe who did it > for him after a patent of Franz Schneider already presented in 1912 >> > > Actually, Schneider was a grumpy old fart, and his gear had > nothing to do=20 > with the Fokker company gear. One was a synchronizer and one was an=20 > interupter (I can't remember which was which). The only thing in > common was=20 > that both were mechanical systems. His patent showed a totally > non-practical= > =20 > device with very few details. Schneider had somewhat of a > reputation for=20 > being a credit hog. > RK > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:57:34 +0200 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: RE: Jasta 11 Red Message-ID: Altough I believe every word of the experts who say that the color of the samples is very dark it sounds also logical to me that it was still red as it was fresh. Wouldn't eye wittness' have talked about the Dr.1 being DARK red or red brown if it were that dark it is now described as? But all that I know is that MvRs aircraft usually was described as being BRIGHT red. That's for me the main question when I think about building the model. Therefore it sounds more logical to me that the original color was a dark red resembling much of fresh blood, but not a brownish red of dried blood (gore?). Is there a difference for the English speaking folks between dried blood and gore? I wonder. I think the question about the color of MvRs aircraft is as controversial as the question regarding the person who fired the fatal bullet. Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of > j@prendergast.tc > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 10:41 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: Jasta 11 Red > > > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 02:56:12 -0400 (EDT) "Gaston Graf" > wrote: > >I never did any research on the color of MvRs Dr.1 but this explanation > >sounds logical to me, when I look at the pictures of his > aircraft where the > >overall red appears very dark. It certainly was not as bright as > the red of > >a firetruck but still red enough for not being brown. That gives > me the idea > >it maybe was as red as the color of my car, which is called > "Imperial Red" - > >a dark red, almost like blood. > > > > Gaston Graf > >(ggraf@vo.lu) > >Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: > >http://www.jastaboelcke.de > > > >> > >> > >Couldn't agree more re the red being the colour of dried blood. > I have a > sample of the real thing that came originally from a guy who was > from Gunner > Ridgeway's unit. It is only about 1 inch square and under > artificial light it > is far darker than the cloth covering of the Harborough book. > Perhaps this is > the effect of oil varnish darkening the shade over the past 83 > years. Probably > would have been a helluva lot brighter when first applied. Now it > would be close > to either Methuen 11F5 or 6. The inside is natural fabric. > > Jim P > > I was > talking to Dan-San > Abbott about this, and he also had a > >> piece (sold it > >> semi-recently) of fabric from MVR's 425/17. He said if I wanted > >> to match the > >> color, get a white sheet of paper, stick my finger with a pin, > and let a > >> couple drops fall on the paper. Then let it dry. He said the color was > >> basically identical to that. Technically, as I recall, he > >> explained that it > >> was so dark because the dope was clear with a red dye, to which a > >> significant amount of carbon black had been added, such that > you could see > >> the black particles clearly under a magnifying lens. > >> > >> Anyway, that Dan's 2 cents, and I tend to trust him;-) I don't > >> know whether > >> that's an accurate match for the red used by Jasta 11. > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: wwi@wwi-models.org [mailto:wwi@wwi-models.org]On Behalf Of > >> NodalPoint@aol.com > >> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:23 PM > >> To: Multiple recipients of list > >> Subject: Jasta 11 Red > >> > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I'm curious to what paints people are using to model the red > markings on > >> Jasta 11 aircraft. > >> > >> The only examples I've seen is supposed fabric from MvR's tripe in an > >> acrylic > >> cube at several museums. That appeared to me to be almost maroon. > >> Very dark > >> in color. > >> > >> I'm sure this is open to a lot of interpetation but some > opinions would be > >> great. I usually use Model Master acrylics and am wondering what > >> people mix > >> to come up with that shade. > >> > >> I just saw something called Boyd Red, which I believe is a brand > >> of Testors > >> enamel, that seems close to the preserved fabric I have seen. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Steve > > > -- > Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 02:01:33 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Synchronizers (was Re: The errors in the book : "Knights of the Message-ID: <200104150054.f3F0sPc92604@mail.rapidnet.net> WW1 Aero published an excellent multi-part series on the various interrupter/synchronizer designs. Its been a couple of years since my subscription lapsed and I never got around to adding WW1 Aero to my index of WW1 journals, so someone else will have to give the particulars on issue number. The Roumanian was Constantinesco, his synchronizing gear was known as the C.C. gear. All of this is covered in the WW1 Aero series. It has detailed explanations as well as drawings of all the ideas tried. Bob ---------- >From: "Gaston Graf" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: RE: The errors in the book : "Knights of the Air - Canadian Pilots in the Fir... >Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2001, 1:51 am > > Can you please tell me the sources where you got that info from? All that I > know is that Lübbe has somewhat stolen die idea from Schneider but Schneider > was unable to sue him because Lübbe and the Fokker Company profited from the > protection by the German army leaders. But I would be highly interested to > learn more about the background story of the interruptor gear. The > interruptor was the first idea, where a cam pushed a rod that blocked the > trigger of the machinegun but later there was some kind of a synchronizer > gear developed. IIrc the Allies introduced a hydraulical gear developed by a > Romanian engineer, but again I have no detailed info on that. > > Gaston Graf > (ggraf@vo.lu) > Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: > http://www.jastaboelcke.de > >> RK >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 05:23:08 EDT From: LEONARDPeterL@aol.com To: wwi@wwi-models.org Subject: Re: Jasta 11 Red Message-ID: <92.1330eb08.280ac27c@aol.com> Some years ago I did carry out a small scale experiment (Jeez! How anal does this make me?) having seen a similar fabric sample close up at Hendon, which appeared dark and very much as described in the previous posts. I prepared a piece of fabric about 2ft square, fixed it to a frame and doped it streaky green according the method outlined in the various articles I am sure we have all seen. I also included a small area of black and white to see the effect on the national markings. Finally the whole thing was given a very thin coat of red. To my eye the whole effect was very like the Hendon sample ( which BTW looked like a piece of airleron fabric) and I was quite pleased with myself. The object though was to see what it would look like at a distance . From about 50 yards, there was a marked difference, Scarlet is the only word for it. This was a decidedly unscientific experiment. The dopes and pigments used were nothing like the original. But I was as faithful to the colours and shades as I could be. Even so I reach no conclusion except that I certainly would not deride anyone from either the "Scarlet Triplane" or "Blood Red Fokker" schools of thought. no help at all Peter L ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3280 **********************