WWI Digest 3006 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? by TomTheAeronut@aol.com 2) RE: Do you have the airplane reflex? by Crawford Neil 3) Do you have the airplane reflex? by cfrieden@calpoly.edu 4) RE: And Proud of It!! by Crawford Neil 5) Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? by LEONARDPeterL@aol.com 6) Friedridactyl progress and gratitude by "Bucky" 7) Re: Pfalz D.IIIa Fuselage ?'s by "Matt Bittner" 8) Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? by "aa8." 9) RE: Friedridactyl progress and gratitude by Crawford Neil 10) Re: Sgt. Shaffers Morane Saulnier AI by "Matt Bittner" 11) Re: Alps printers by "Matt Bittner" 12) Re: Thoughts. ... by "Steven M.Perry" 13) RE: Do you have the airplane reflex? by Crawford Neil 14) Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? by "Steven M.Perry" 15) Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? by "Steven M.Perry" 16) Re: Eduad Opinions??? by "John & Allison Cyganowski" 17) Austro Hungarian navy flying boats by "aa8." 18) RE: Kits for kids - Camel- Brown? by Crawford Neil 19) RE: Painting Real WWI A/C by Crawford Neil 20) Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? by "aa8." 21) Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? by Scottfking@aol.com 22) Sopwith and proposed Giant cookup by Shane & Lorna Jenkins 23) RE: Kits for kids - Camel- Brown? by "Gaston Graf" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:48:34 EST From: TomTheAeronut@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? Message-ID: In a message dated 1/24/01 1:14:14 AM EST, ethomas6@bellsouth.net writes: << Hi all, I was wondering how any of y'all just automatically look up when you hear any kind of aircraft flying over head? I know I do it at least 95% of the time. Maybe more. And while I'm been making mental note of how often I look up, I've also been noticing how seldom other people look up. And it's kinda disturbing when I'm in a crowd, and I'll hear an airplane. And I look up, but know one else will. And if I don't spot it immediately, and I have to scan for it, someone else may notice me looking up, and they'll say, "It's just an airplane". As if it were just a rock, or a stump in the woods, or any other common, everyday, non-acheivement. As if the ability to design, and build an airplane, to fly an airplane, The ability to solve the mysteries of the physical world that make flight possible, as if all these things were as common as the reflex of the heart beat, or respiration. Or looking to the sky. How dare they say, "just an airplane"? >> E: You're so totally entirely right. My mother used to love to tell people that the first word I ever said was "o-pane", as I pointed up at the P-38 that flew over us in Observatory Park in Denver, on its way into landing (I have since surmised) at Lowry Army Air Forces Base (later Lowry AFB, where I saw a lot of airplanes I will never forget, foremost among them a B-36 and an F-104, while growing up). To this day, I look up when I hear an airplane (I livve a 5 minute drive from Burbank Airport), and even if it's "only" a Gulfstream IV, or a Boeing 737 aluminum time tube, or a Cessna 150, I watch them. And in my neighborhood, (a poor neighborhood of immigrants - whattaya think is going to ber 5 minutes from a modern airport), nobody looks up. Except there's this kid who lives down on the first floor (of the 2-story apartment building I live in) who looks up. His Spanish is better than his English (but getting better now that we got rid of bilingual mis-education), and the other day we were both out back when an airplane flew over, and he noticed I looked too, and asked me what it was. We had an "airplane talk" till his mom came out to get him away from the "dangerous Gringo" - if I get the chance, I'll be sure to "infect" him. :-) There's an old bumper sticker we used to have 25 years ago when we were fighting the morons who wanted to kill our airport (there should be a law: you buy a house within 3 miles of an airport, you have to sign "I was warned an airport was in the vicinity and bought here anyway, thereby forfeiting my right to be a moron anytime in the future and all my legal rights.") The bumper sticker said: AIRPLANE PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR. I can remember going to Sac Exec at 0500 on a summer morning to pull "Boeing 747 Junior" (our Stearman) out of the hangar for pre-flight. Turn her on, taxi to the runway, wait for the blue lights to come off ("official sunrise"), it's pink over the Sierra. Feed in power, down the runway, lift off - once outside of the airport area, turn off the radio, the cold air washing over the windshield like a good shower, up to 3,500 ft, and into the sunlight for my own private sunrise. Look down at the city below, still in darkness, and fell sorry for the doofusai below. A split-ess, level out over the Sacramento River, and roar downriver at treetop height over all the houseboats. The only response is people up early enough to wave. Had I dont that in my 1947 Bonanza (old enough to be an "antique") I would *still* be sitting in the FAA office answering the buzzing complaints. A biplane *belongs* there. :-) So, when an airplane flies over and you look up, look down quick and find the others who are looking up. When they realize you're looking at them, give 'em a big smile. You're looking at the other "homo sapiens" among all the "homo saps". "Airplane People Are Better." It's still true. Cheers, Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:58:54 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Do you have the airplane reflex? Message-ID: See what I mean, when Tom's good he's really good! /Neil > > You're so totally entirely right. My mother used to love to > tell people that > the first word I ever said was "o-pane", as I pointed up at > the P-38 that > flew over us in Observatory Park in Denver, on its way into > landing (I have > since surmised) at Lowry Army Air Forces Base (later Lowry > AFB, where I saw a > lot of airplanes I will never forget, foremost among them a > B-36 and an > F-104, while growing up). To this day, I look up when I hear > an airplane (I > livve a 5 minute drive from Burbank Airport), and even if > it's "only" a > Gulfstream IV, or a Boeing 737 aluminum time tube, or a > Cessna 150, I watch > them. And in my neighborhood, (a poor neighborhood of > immigrants - whattaya > think is going to ber 5 minutes from a modern airport), > nobody looks up. > Except there's this kid who lives down on the first floor (of > the 2-story > apartment building I live in) who looks up. His Spanish is > better than his > English (but getting better now that we got rid of bilingual > mis-education), > and the other day we were both out back when an airplane flew > over, and he > noticed I looked too, and asked me what it was. We had an > "airplane talk" > till his mom came out to get him away from the "dangerous > Gringo" - if I get > the chance, I'll be sure to "infect" him. :-) > > There's an old bumper sticker we used to have 25 years ago > when we were > fighting the morons who wanted to kill our airport (there > should be a law: > you buy a house within 3 miles of an airport, you have to > sign "I was warned > an airport was in the vicinity and bought here anyway, > thereby forfeiting my > right to be a moron anytime in the future and all my legal > rights.") The > bumper sticker said: AIRPLANE PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR. > > I can remember going to Sac Exec at 0500 on a summer morning > to pull "Boeing > 747 Junior" (our Stearman) out of the hangar for pre-flight. > Turn her on, > taxi to the runway, wait for the blue lights to come off ("official > sunrise"), it's pink over the Sierra. Feed in power, down > the runway, lift > off - once outside of the airport area, turn off the radio, > the cold air > washing over the windshield like a good shower, up to 3,500 > ft, and into the > sunlight for my own private sunrise. Look down at the city > below, still in > darkness, and fell sorry for the doofusai below. > > A split-ess, level out over the Sacramento River, and roar > downriver at > treetop height over all the houseboats. The only response is > people up early > enough to wave. Had I dont that in my 1947 Bonanza (old > enough to be an > "antique") I would *still* be sitting in the FAA office > answering the buzzing > complaints. A biplane *belongs* there. :-) > > So, when an airplane flies over and you look up, look down > quick and find the > others who are looking up. When they realize you're looking > at them, give > 'em a big smile. You're looking at the other "homo sapiens" > among all the > "homo saps". > > "Airplane People Are Better." It's still true. > > Cheers, > > Tom > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:01:01 -0800 From: cfrieden@calpoly.edu Subject: Do you have the airplane reflex? Message-ID: Hi E., I know what you mean. Even if it is “just an airplane” I have to look. It may be a weird thing to do, but there are always those moments when you see something really cool and everyone else misses it. Just last year I heard an aircraft droning by, and lo and behold it was the Planes of Fame Zero! That really made my day. On a related note, I went to a high school that was located under the approach path for NAS Moffett Field. I would often zone out while listening to an aircraft passing by overhead. I guess that was more interesting than some of those lectures. And then there was the time when I looked up and there was Air Force One on final. Even if it is just a run of the mill Cessna it is worth the effort to look. Chris Friedenbach ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:27:40 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: And Proud of It!! Message-ID: He's not really swearing, he means Albatross. Strictly speaking we could probably do a lot more blaspheming if we just gave modern(er) stuff their old name. I'm building a Sopwith Sea Fury, I like Admirality Department Spitfires, or should that be a Wight Spitfire? Albatross 190's and Brandenburg 111's would be OK. And if I've got the convolutions of the US industry right, then a Thomas-Morse F16 would be almost OT! /Neil > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Boorman [mailto:Ray_Boorman@telus.net] > Sent: den 24 januari 2001 05:22 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: And Proud of It!! > > > Dont swear!! > > ;) > > Cyg posted > > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of > > John & Allison Cyganowski > > Focke-Wulf. > > > > Cyg. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:06:45 EST From: LEONARDPeterL@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? Message-ID: <8a.172eacf.279ff525@aol.com> When stationed at RAF Coltishall and living out in the village I'd run into the street and bloody near get run over every time I'd hear a Merlin or a Grifon. Now I live on the circuit for Manchester airport and Woodford aerodrome I still look up, but only for piston engines. Well, a chap has to have standards don't y'know! cheers Peter L ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:25:42 +0900 From: "Bucky" To: Subject: Friedridactyl progress and gratitude Message-ID: <002701c085e7$a0282920$184207d3@compaqcomputer> Thanks, everyone, for all the help you've sent my re: the Friedridactyl. I'm fairly overwhelmed with gratitude. I think I've got enough info now to take it the rest of the way (famous last words -- I CAN HEAR YOU CHUCKLING RIGHT NOW, RK!!), so just keeping my fingers crossed, hoping I can carve up all those damn struts without losing (the rest of) my marbles and get everything aligned. Last big hurdles are: 1) the aforementioned struts; 2) seating the engine nacelles; 3) the twin tail assembly; and 4) soldering up the landing gear (I've decided to go with rod-cored, squashed brass pipe -- it worked well for me with the Hansa-Brandenburg W.29 last year). Will keep you posted. Here's hoping the ALPS will hold up its part of the deal. Bucky p.s. Intrigued by all the Be2 buzz going around these days. And, jeez, even Tom C likes it? That does it. I'm e-mailing Hannant's IMMEDIATELY. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:29:15 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Pfalz D.IIIa Fuselage ?'s Message-ID: <200101240929.BAA03318@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net> For those scratching the formers in the Pfalz D.III/a fuselage, I was given a tip by Steve Hustad. Do the formers in plastic strip, laying one over the other until the desired "height" or "thickness" is obtained. I did this when I built the Roland D.II and it works great, the Pfalz D.III/a being based in part on the Roland D.II/a. FWIW... Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:26:05 -0000 From: "aa8." To: Subject: Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? Message-ID: <007b01c085e7$cc2fd400$33253c3e@tinypc> Speaking of RAF Coltishall. I grew up not a million miles from there. When I was four years old I was terrified of aircraft. In those days 'Colt' was the home of the Lightning OTU--very noisy! When they flew over I used to hide under the coffee table in the lounge. Then one year (I was four or five) my dad took to me to the Coltishall open day (time to kill or cure). Never has a transformation been so complete. I was hooked, no addicted to aviation in one day. My boyhood was filled with a sky full of aircraft. Hunters, Canberra's, Lightning's, Shackletons from Marham. Hercules, Andover's and Argosy's dropping stuff on the Battle area. The local Yank contingent with F100's and F4's at Lakenheath and Bentwaters. Anyone who has lived in Norfolk will tell the sky is very rarely empty. World War aviation came later for me but this is where it all started. Apologies for being so far off topic but my neck grew with a permanent backward bend to facilitate watching aircraft. Andy Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:10 AM Subject: Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? > When stationed at RAF Coltishall and living out in the village I'd run into > the street and bloody near get run over every time I'd hear a Merlin or a > Grifon. Now I live on the circuit for Manchester airport and Woodford > aerodrome I still look up, but only for piston engines. Well, a chap has to > have standards don't y'know! > > cheers > > Peter L > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:35:21 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Friedridactyl progress and gratitude Message-ID: Don't! We want you to keep plugging away at the Freidrichshafen.-) /Neil > -----Original Message----- > From: Bucky [mailto:bucky@tokai.or.jp] > Sent: den 24 januari 2001 10:34 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Friedridactyl progress and gratitude > > > Thanks, everyone, for all the help you've sent my re: the > Friedridactyl. I'm > fairly overwhelmed with gratitude. > > I think I've got enough info now to take it the rest of the > way (famous last > words -- I CAN HEAR YOU CHUCKLING RIGHT NOW, RK!!), so just keeping my > fingers crossed, hoping I can carve up all those damn struts > without losing > (the rest of) my marbles and get everything aligned. > > Last big hurdles are: 1) the aforementioned struts; 2) > seating the engine > nacelles; 3) the twin tail assembly; and 4) soldering up the > landing gear > (I've decided to go with rod-cored, squashed brass pipe -- it > worked well > for me with the Hansa-Brandenburg W.29 last year). > > Will keep you posted. > > Here's hoping the ALPS will hold up its part of the deal. > > Bucky > > p.s. Intrigued by all the Be2 buzz going around these days. > And, jeez, even > Tom C likes it? That does it. I'm e-mailing Hannant's IMMEDIATELY. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:41:38 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Sgt. Shaffers Morane Saulnier AI Message-ID: <200101240941.BAA21081@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:40:26 -0500 (EST), diaphus wrote: > Quick question: What color were the wheel hubs for this plane? The CSM > instruction sheet shows them as French blue. I've got a xerox of the > Datafile page which suggests a light non-blue color. Would it be aluminum > like the wing and fuselage undersides or something else? Underside aluminum. However, be aware if you build the CSM kit out of the box you won't be building an accurate machine for Shaffer. He flew the Type 27C.1, which was a single gun machine, while the kit out of the box represents either a two gun 29C.1, or a trainer 30C.1. Unfortunately this area has alluded me since becoming interested in - and building the CM 1/72nd kit of - the MoS Type AI. I don't *think* it's as easy as filling in the two gun locations and sitting the single gun on top. I *think* the "hump" was left and the single gun was buried in it. However, like I said, I still have to see a clear enough picture of this area to truly make it out. Sorry to throw rain on your parade... Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:45:45 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Alps printers Message-ID: <200101240945.BAA25868@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:36:17 -0500 (EST), Allan Wright wrote: > Alas it seems that Alps has gone under. I scowered the internet looking for > anyone who still had some old stock left but all I found is one person > selling a used one on Ebay. > > Anyone who knows of a retail source for an MD-1000 please let me know! Didn't another company buy either the left over stock, or the rights to make them? Not sure who, though... Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:03:34 -0500 From: "Steven M.Perry" To: Subject: Re: Thoughts. ... Message-ID: <001f01c085ec$ea7535e0$28f0aec7@default> > Shane, > > I've asked before (not you personally) but what IS > vegemite?!! > > Todd It's a mind altering substance. Under it's influence one looses the ability to distinguish between Olive and Yellow sp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:06:45 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Do you have the airplane reflex? Message-ID: I even run to the nearest window, people here think I'm completely nuts. I think my two best experiences are both from England. The first was when one of the CASA 2.111's from the Battle of Britain film flew over our school, so low that you could see every detail. We cycled over to Bovingdon , and IIRC saw a whole row of planes, but my memory of that is much hazier, I could be mistaken, the one over school is still vivid though. The other memory is from about 15 yrs ago, we were driving from Harwich (or Immingham) up to Edinburgh, for a holiday in Scotland (recommended), we had stopped to fill petrol in Lincolnshire, I think it must have been nr. Scunthorpe, I didn't realise where I was, until I suddenly heard an enormous noise, I can't claim that I recognized at as Merlins, I turned round and there was a Lancaster coming straight at me, I think he was retracting his undercarriage as he passed over our heads, he probably wasn't as low as it felt, but it sure was wonderful. Odd place to put a petrol station though! Best OT memory is of Michael Carlsson dancing in the breeze with his Bleriot XI at an airshow here a few yrs ago. It looked so fragile, in fact darn right dangerous, but lovely to see, you could see him working the stick to ward off the very slight breeze, I'm not sure if I really saw him working the stick, but it left that impression. /Neil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:20:54 -0500 From: "Steven M.Perry" To: Subject: Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? Message-ID: <003901c085ef$562028c0$28f0aec7@default> > Hi all, > I was wondering how any of y'all just automatically look up when you > hear any kind of aircraft flying over head? Look up? Shoot, I'll walk away from a group, still talking, but looking up so I can see see the plane as it appears from behind an obscuring building or tree. At work they don't understand it, but they are used to me doing it. In fact, I sometimes get wierd looks when aerial engine noise doesn't evoke this response in me. On these occasions I will respond to the odd look with: "It's only a helo". I used to have a bumper sticker. Yellow with diagonal black stripes around the border, a picture of someone hanging their head out a car window looking up and text saying: "CAUTION, airplane watcher" sp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:51:45 -0500 From: "Steven M.Perry" To: Subject: Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? Message-ID: <007401c085f3$a54ce100$28f0aec7@default> > > There's an old bumper sticker we used to have 25 years ago when we were > fighting the morons who wanted to kill our airport (there should be a law: > you buy a house within 3 miles of an airport, you have to sign "I was warned > an airport was in the vicinity and bought here anyway, thereby forfeiting my > right to be a moron anytime in the future and all my legal rights.") The > bumper sticker said: AIRPLANE PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR. Have to agree with TC here. IMNSHO, ALL technology, from the first flake of flint chipped off a rock to the present, has had but one purpose, to evelate mankind to the point of powered, fixed wing flight. Everything else is just a spin-off. As for where stupid people buy homes, if you think it's bad about airports, (the grass strip I learned to fly from is no longer there thanks to these morons), try explaining the error of their ways to some jerk who has just bought a 100,000 dollar house immediately downwind of a wastewater plant. They don't take it well ;-) sp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:56:55 -0500 From: "John & Allison Cyganowski" To: Subject: Re: Eduad Opinions??? Message-ID: <00f301c085f4$5e642630$4e37183f@cyrixp166> Profi - Professional Cyg. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven M.Perry To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Eduad Opinions??? > How did they come up with the name Profipack? Being used to US marketing > hype, I'd expect a name like Extra or Deluxe printed on the box. Profipack > sounds more like something to entice the distributors, not the end > customers. Perhaps a poor translation into English? Is anyone familiar > enough with the Czech language to comment on this? > > A bored mind in Fla wants to know. (Yes Tom, in spite of appeaances to the > contrary we do have minds in Florida ;-) > sp > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:58:19 -0000 From: "aa8." To: Subject: Austro Hungarian navy flying boats Message-ID: <000701c085f4$b50211a0$11033c3e@tinypc> Dear List I am after information on Austro Hungarian navy flying boats. I have on order both the Joystick Phoenix A boat and Sierra's HB W.18. According to my ancient Harleyford Marine Aircraft Volume The two boats were closely related, but it isn't too clear on how. Can anyone out there help me fill in this grey area? Also I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has built either the Sierra kit or the Joystick kit with their thoughts on what they are like. This is a bit of a whim project that just popped up, so I don't have much reference material Regards Andy Jones ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:10:52 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Kits for kids - Camel- Brown? Message-ID: I wrote it this way to make a better story for the kids, but by all means Steve can take that part out, but then there wouldn't be much else, just the technical bit, which was too much anyway. I tried to be non-commital, because I really haven't a clue myself. But I think you are a bit unfair saying that Brown and MvR weren't connected, surely they were in the same dogfight, and if anyone made MvR break his own golden rule and fly too low, it was Brown (and May). I haven't heard any definite judgement one way or the other yet, I thought they were still argueing about it, so I thought it was safe to give the more romantic version, as long as I gave the other version too. Up to you Steve, take it out if you like. /Neil > -----Original Message----- > From: D Charles [mailto:charls@bit.net.au] > Sent: den 24 januari 2001 07:10 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Kits for kids - Camel- Brown? > > > Neil, > Let's not perpetuate the myth. There is no doubt. > The only question is which person on the ground pulled the trigger. > Brown and MvR are not connected. > > Nice link to USA with the AV8B at the end. > David > > >Possibly the Camel pilot who became most famous was Roy > Brown, he was a > >flight > >commander in the RFC, very experienced, and rather tired of > the war, still > >doing the best > >he could. One day he was on patrol when his squadron got > embroiled in a big > >dogfight > >with one of the crack german Jastas, he saw one of his > youngsters called > >May, going > >down with a red Fokker triplane on its tail, and gave chase. This > distracted > >the Fokker > >pilot enough to let May escape, then Roy Brown chased the > Fokker right down > >to low level > >just above the trenches, finally he got in some good shots > and the Fokker > >crashed. > >It turned out that the pilot of the red Fokker who was > killed, was the red > >baron himself > >Manfred von Richthofen, the greatest ace of the first world war. This > battle > >has been > >discussed ever since, many people say that he was shot down > by australian > >soldiers in > >the trenches, but in any case it was Roy Brown who drove him > down to that > >dangerous low level. > >I guess we will never know the truth. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:24:22 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Painting Real WWI A/C Message-ID: I've seen a lovely picture of the Spad paintshop, full of pots of paint, and people weilding paintbrushes. /Neil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:18:48 -0000 From: "aa8." To: Subject: Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? Message-ID: <002501c085f7$88b73be0$11033c3e@tinypc> Despite what I said about my Norfolk boyhood earlier my all time best aviation memories all come from Shuttleworth. I first went there when I was seven and been a regular ever since. The best three are watching the LVG C.VI fly right over me early one morning and seeing it's perfect plan from below. or watching the Avro 504K being wheeled from it's hangar and noticing how the breeze shook the airframe giving it a feeling of lightness that us modellers strive for but rarely manage to impart to our models (well at least I don't). or having the 1912 Blackburn monoplane fly past so close on a perfect summer evening (very few and far between) that you can smell the Castrol 'R' from the 50hp Gnome exhaust. I live 20 minutes from the collection. When we bought our house it was strictly a decision based on finance and professional needs, but one wonders if the sub-conscious wasn't at work thinking only 20 minutes away!! regards Andy Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: Crawford Neil To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: Do you have the airplane reflex? > I even run to the nearest window, people here think I'm > completely nuts. I think my two best experiences are both > from England. The first was when one of the CASA 2.111's > from the Battle of Britain film flew over our school, so > low that you could see every detail. We cycled over to Bovingdon > , and IIRC saw a whole row of planes, but my memory of that is > much hazier, I could be mistaken, the one over school is still > vivid though. The other memory is from about 15 yrs ago, we were > driving from Harwich (or Immingham) up to Edinburgh, for a holiday > in Scotland (recommended), we had stopped to fill petrol in Lincolnshire, > I think it must have been nr. Scunthorpe, I didn't realise where I was, > until I suddenly heard an enormous noise, I can't claim that I recognized > at as Merlins, I turned round and there was a Lancaster coming straight > at me, I think he was retracting his undercarriage as he passed over our > heads, he probably wasn't as low as it felt, but it sure was wonderful. > Odd place to put a petrol station though! > > Best OT memory is of Michael Carlsson dancing in the breeze with his > Bleriot XI at an airshow here a few yrs ago. It looked so fragile, > in fact darn right dangerous, but lovely to see, you could see him > working the stick to ward off the very slight breeze, I'm not > sure if I really saw him working the stick, but it left that impression. > /Neil > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:04:37 EST From: Scottfking@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Do you have the airplane reflex? Message-ID: In a message dated 1/24/01 1:14:14 AM EST, ethomas6@bellsouth.net writes: << I was wondering how any of y'all just automatically look up when you hear any kind of aircraft flying over head? >> Usually, and especially when I hear piston engine(s). Skippy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:49:32 -0800 From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins To: WW1 posts Subject: Sopwith and proposed Giant cookup Message-ID: <3A6FBE6C.E5E36293@tac.com.au> Hi, Over the last year or so the list has changed from what it was when we first joined. Where once there was a pervasive feeling of camaraderie and good will on the list, this seems to be ever more elusive. The events of the past few days have only served to confirm this belief. We regret that sometimes we have also been part of the problem when in trying to put forward a differing point of view we have posted in response to a thread which seems to be dragging a great list down. This being the case we are unsubscribing. We find we cannot ignore people's attempts to bring venom and hysteria into this list and rather than see it go downhill altogether we'll remove two "bones of contention" This means we can now no longer participate in the current Sopwith cookup or the proposed ongoing Giants cookup. Our regrets at this but this seems to be the best move for all at this time. Regards, Shane & Lorna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:24:41 +0100 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: RE: Kits for kids - Camel- Brown? Message-ID: Folks, you can read a translation of the FALSE story of Browns victory over MvR at my site if you don't already have. For details regarding the man who pulled the trigger on the ground please visit my friend John Woods website at www.anzacs.net. He has a lot of info about dealing with that questoin. btw: John offers a nice reprint of a dedicated Sanke Card of MvR for a good price. Check his website! Latest news regarding MvRs way through Belgium: Yesterday I posted info about the steeple he had climbed in Arlon. Had news today from the former director of a local newpaper, sending me a copy of an article from the French magazine ICARE. After that article there was no franctireurs existing and the Huns chased only a phantom. The people shooting from a house in the forest of Virton was in fact lost Belgian soldiers. MvR himself seem to have done everything possible to save these guys from excution. The escaped with bullets whistling around their ears. Will consult the archives of a Belgian and a Luxemburgish newspaper asap. No news on the location where MvR unloaded his unit from the train yet. Also no reply yet from the cities or Arlon and Virton. stay tuned ;o) Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of > Crawford Neil > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 12:18 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: Kits for kids - Camel- Brown? > > > I wrote it this way to make a better story for the kids, but > by all means Steve can take that part out, but then there wouldn't > be much else, just the technical bit, which was too much anyway. > > I tried to be non-commital, because I really haven't a clue myself. But > I think you are a bit unfair saying that Brown and MvR weren't > connected, surely they were in the same dogfight, and if anyone made MvR > break his own golden rule and fly too low, it was Brown (and May). > > I haven't heard any definite judgement one way or the other yet, I > thought they were still argueing about it, so I thought it was safe to > give the more romantic version, as long as I gave the other version too. > > Up to you Steve, take it out if you like. > /Neil > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: D Charles [mailto:charls@bit.net.au] > > Sent: den 24 januari 2001 07:10 > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: Re: Kits for kids - Camel- Brown? > > > > > > Neil, > > Let's not perpetuate the myth. There is no doubt. > > The only question is which person on the ground pulled the trigger. > > Brown and MvR are not connected. > > > > Nice link to USA with the AV8B at the end. > > David > > > > >Possibly the Camel pilot who became most famous was Roy > > Brown, he was a > > >flight > > >commander in the RFC, very experienced, and rather tired of > > the war, still > > >doing the best > > >he could. One day he was on patrol when his squadron got > > embroiled in a big > > >dogfight > > >with one of the crack german Jastas, he saw one of his > > youngsters called > > >May, going > > >down with a red Fokker triplane on its tail, and gave chase. This > > distracted > > >the Fokker > > >pilot enough to let May escape, then Roy Brown chased the > > Fokker right down > > >to low level > > >just above the trenches, finally he got in some good shots > > and the Fokker > > >crashed. > > >It turned out that the pilot of the red Fokker who was > > killed, was the red > > >baron himself > > >Manfred von Richthofen, the greatest ace of the first world war. This > > battle > > >has been > > >discussed ever since, many people say that he was shot down > > by australian > > >soldiers in > > >the trenches, but in any case it was Roy Brown who drove him > > down to that > > >dangerous low level. > > >I guess we will never know the truth. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 3006 **********************