WWI Digest 2996

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) wood simulation again
	by "TOM PLESHA" <APPMAN@worldnet.att.net>
  2) Re: wood simulation again
	by "Francisca e Pedro Soares" <pnsoares@mail.telepac.pt>
  3) RE: Rumpler Internal Designations
	by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= <haeusler@tm.net.my>
  4) Re: most important
	by "Neil Crawford" <neil.crawford@swipnet.se>
  5) RE: Latest Windsock, What's on the bench
	by "Neil Crawford" <neil.crawford@swipnet.se>
  6) Re: ot heads-up
	by Jan Vihonen <jan.vihonen@helsinki.fi>
  7) Re: most important
	by "DAVID BURKE" <dora9@sprynet.com>
  8) Re: What's on the Bench?
	by Allan Wright <aew>
  9) Re: What's on the Bench?
	by Allan Wright <aew>
 10) Re: Giant Cookup
	by Steve Cox <steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk>
 11) Re: Cuxhaven raid
	by Steve Cox <steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk>
 12) Re: Giant Cookup
	by Steve Cox <steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk>
 13) Re: New VAMP Order
	by "Dale Sebring" <alleluja@ida.net>
 14) Fw: [On30conspiracy] NEW WEB PAGE
	by Russell W Niles <r_niles1@juno.com>
 15) RE: Simulating woodgarin
	by "Nigel Rayner" <nigel@rosnar.demon.co.uk>
 16) Re: wood simulation again
	by Lee <lemen@x25.net>
 17) Re: Wood simulation
	by KarrArt@aol.com
 18) Re: ot heads-up
	by MAnde72343@aol.com
 19) RE: Most Important?
	by Mark Miller <albatros1212@altavista.com>
 20) RE: Price of Toko/Roden, was Thanks Neil and Steven
	by Shane Weier <sdw@qld.mim.com.au>
 21) RE: Price of Toko/Roden, was Thanks Neil and Steven
	by Shane Weier <sdw@qld.mim.com.au>
 22) Re: New VAMP Order
	by Todd Hayes <thayes_52601@yahoo.com>
 23) RE: Roden Gotha G-V announcement
	by Shane Weier <sdw@qld.mim.com.au>
 24) Re: New VAMP Order
	by "Dale Sebring" <alleluja@ida.net>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:12:10 -0500
From: "TOM PLESHA" <APPMAN@worldnet.att.net>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: wood simulation again
Message-ID: <003901c083b4$25c9ada0$6a404c0c@tom>

Hi-
One suggestion was to use a bit of soap in the Tamiya paint- it did not
change the result.
I will continue trying suggestions, etc. and post successful results.
Tom


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:41:12 -0000
From: "Francisca e Pedro Soares" <pnsoares@mail.telepac.pt>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: wood simulation again
Message-ID: <005801c083b8$3416bb60$54a337d4@pc1>

Tamya paints in my most humble opinion are absolutely impossible to brush
paint, and they are not much betteer when shot from an airbrush either. I
never could make anything of them.

Probably my fault but they are the reason I never made the switch to
acrylics...

Pedro
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM PLESHA <APPMAN@worldnet.att.net>
To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 2:15 PM
Subject: wood simulation again


> Hi-
> One suggestion was to use a bit of soap in the Tamiya paint- it did not
> change the result.
> I will continue trying suggestions, etc. and post successful results.
> Tom
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:00:50 +0700
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= <haeusler@tm.net.my>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: RE: Rumpler Internal Designations
Message-ID: <PIEDKPMPLLECGIPNNGNPGEFJCEAA.haeusler@tm.net.my>

AFAIK, the Rumpler designations changed in 1917.

First phase up to 1916:

First Number: year
Letter: Main design (no connection to the engine, eg 4A13 has a Mecedes
engine, 4A14 a Benz)A=biplane, B = Biplane seaplane, C = Monoplane, D ?, E=
Flying Boat, F= Monoplane Seaplane
second number: individual design in above class

eg: 5A2 = first Landplane Biplane design of 1915 (= Ru C I), 5A15 = 15th
landplane design of 1915 (=Ru G I)
Second phase 1917/1918:

Letter changes to official designation, ie D for fighters (7D1 to 7D7, 8D1),
C for recce/army coop a/c (eg 7C1), the last numbers now not necessarily
showing subtypes only (eg, 7D6 totally different from 7D7).

As I was unsubbed for a day or so (due to a "system upgrading" of my
provider, I guess, I don´t know wether this information was already posted
before.

Volker

-----Original Message-----
From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of
Graham Nash
Sent: 21 January 2001 21:02
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: RE: Rumpler Internal Designations


Thank for the response Lance :-).

So far, all I can tell you is that the first number (4,5,6,7,8) defines the
year (of design?)
to whit:   1914=4, 1915=5, 1916=6 etc.

I thought that the Letter refered to the German Military system, B=2 seater,
D=1 seater, but the 7A type was not a monoplane, so you suggestion of A (for
Argus?), B (for Benz), D for (Daimler/Mercedes) makes a lot of sense.

The final letter may then just refer to the number of designs that year.

Any more ideas anyone?

Uncle Sniffy


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:06:01 +0100
From: "Neil Crawford" <neil.crawford@swipnet.se>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: most important
Message-ID: <000801c083bb$abf72e00$07e897d4@default>

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You were'nt rambling too badly, I thought very much the same as you till
I read "The speed seekers" by Thomas G. Foxworth. That guy =
(unfortunately
passed away)  really explains how it all hangs together, completely =
fascinating.
One of the other interesting things in that book is that he mentions =
some of the
Zeppelin research done just after the turn of the century, that was when =
aluminium=20
alloys began to arrive. Big problems was cost and risk of corrosion, as =
the price=20
came down it became more practical to build from aluminium. That book =
has also
given me a better understanding of the "which country was first" debate, =
it's usually
nonsense because all research and development is so intertwined, that's =
its often
impossible to say who invented what. I can't reccomend this book enough, =
but I
must warn you, it might get you interested in racing, which could be =
detrimental
to this list;-)
/Neil

Hey Neil and Eli,

    It's obvious to me that you guys have the skinny and I'm blowing =
like a
gale.  So before I go off listing things in an attempt to look like I =
know
what the hell I'm rambling about, can you suggest some good reading =
material
on A/C development?  Not that I want to remove an easy target, but I =
like to
have more of an idea what I'm talking about!


Thanks!


DB



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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You were'nt rambling too badly, I =
thought very much=20
the same as you till</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I read "The speed seekers" by Thomas G. =
Foxworth.=20
That guy (unfortunately</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>passed away)&nbsp; really explains how =
it all hangs=20
together, completely fascinating.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One of the other interesting things in =
that book is=20
that he mentions some&nbsp;of the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Zeppelin&nbsp;research done just after =
the turn of=20
the century, that was when aluminium </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>alloys began to arrive. Big problems =
was cost and=20
risk of corrosion, as the price </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>came down it became&nbsp;more practical =
to build=20
from aluminium.&nbsp;That book has also</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>given me a better understanding of the =
"which=20
country was first" debate, it's usually</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nonsense because all research and =
development=20
is&nbsp;so intertwined, that's its often</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>impossible to say who invented what. I =
can't=20
reccomend this book enough, but I</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>must warn you, it might get you =
interested in=20
racing, which could be detrimental</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>to this list;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>/Neil</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey Neil and Eli,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It's obvious to me =
that you guys=20
have the skinny and I'm blowing like a<BR>gale.&nbsp; So before I go off =
listing=20
things in an attempt to look like I know<BR>what the hell I'm rambling =
about,=20
can you suggest some good reading material<BR>on A/C development?&nbsp; =
Not that=20
I want to remove an easy target, but I like to<BR>have more of an idea =
what I'm=20
talking about!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>DB</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:15:51 +0100
From: "Neil Crawford" <neil.crawford@swipnet.se>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: RE: Latest Windsock, What's on the bench
Message-ID: <001301c083bd$0b0c7fc0$07e897d4@default>

I think it's a plot, I'm planning on unsubscribing, so he put's in a picture
of mine to make me change my mind. How the hell did he know!
/Neil

Nigel wrote very kindly:
>Also, there is a single pic of a really nice Spad XI by the list's Neil
>Crawford. Excellent piece of work, well done Neil.




------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:01:51 +0200
From: Jan Vihonen <jan.vihonen@helsinki.fi>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: ot heads-up
Message-ID: <3A6AEBCF.9D79FFEF@helsinki.fi>

Tom,

> For those of you who might be considering purchase of the newest product from
> Mr. Gannon, a heads-up.  

Are you talking about BM, Pegasus or Silverbird kit?

Jan



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:36:20 -0600
From: "DAVID BURKE" <dora9@sprynet.com>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: most important
Message-ID: <002701c083bf$fe1a42e0$47e479a5@com>

I can't reccomend this book enough, =
> but I
> must warn you, it might get you interested in racing, which could be =
> detrimental
> to this list;-)
> /Neil
>

Thanks for the info - I'll try and find a copy.  As to interest in racing:
what true red-blooded American aviation nut doesn't go all a-quiver when he
sees a Gee Bee or a Travelaire Mystery ship?  I just love the stuff that was
created between 1903 and 1930 or so!  That similar 'evolutionary explosion'
that saw streamlining and that cool Art Deco look in airplanes.  Compound
curves, rounded wheel pants - Ooooh!

    Oh, and also that myriad of cool WWI planes too!

                                                                        DB


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:52:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Allan Wright <aew>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: What's on the Bench?
Message-ID: <200101211552.KAA25143@pease1.sr.unh.edu>

For me currently on the bench is a Halberstade D-V by merlin. I've got
the parts as sanded as they're going to be, and partially asselbled.
It's got one color on it and I'm just waiting to get something on 
the bench that needs paint as well to make it worth firing up the
airbrush.

Also in progress (though on the bench might be streching the truth
a bit) are 2 ESCI Nieuport 17s and a Pegasus Bristol Bullet.

Al

===============================================================================
Allan Wright Jr.            |      "I Played the Fool" - Southside Johnny
University of New Hampshire +--------------------------------------------------
Research Computing Center   | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu 
Internet: aew@unh.edu       | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 11:00:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Allan Wright <aew>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: What's on the Bench?
Message-ID: <200101211600.LAA25217@pease1.sr.unh.edu>

Did the pinewood car have a yellow cowl or green? (ducks)

Also did you go for factory streaked finish or field applied lozenge?

> Well we just finished this years Pinewood Derby car so it's back to the
> Eduard Fokker DVI, have fuselage done and decalled, top wing finished andwas
> out of town several days so I took the four bottom wing thick top/bottom
> halves and scrapped on them for three evenings (maid is probably still
> wondering what all that mess was).  Loz. decal the two wings this weekend
> and hopefully get it assembled in Feb.  The the Eduard Roland is back up
> have the fuselage formers opened up just need some better weather in which
> to paint.
> Charlie


===============================================================================
Allan Wright Jr.            |      "I Played the Fool" - Southside Johnny
University of New Hampshire +--------------------------------------------------
Research Computing Center   | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu 
Internet: aew@unh.edu       | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:07:39 +0000
From: Steve Cox <steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Giant Cookup
Message-ID: <B68FC4DC.4040%steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk>

I agree. I finished my models for the Giant Cook-up 10 years ago.

Regards 
Steve



 
> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:28:14 -0800
> From: "Bob Pearson" <bpearson@rapidnet.net>
> To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
> Subject: Re: Giant Cookup
> Message-ID: <200101200041.QAA05916@mail.rapidnet.net>
> 
> Why worry about a'cook-up' . if you like it, build it
> 
> Bob


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:07:43 +0000
From: Steve Cox <steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Cuxhaven raid
Message-ID: <B68FD30A.4042%steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk>

Friedrich, I have found the info below from the book Royal Navy Aircraft
Serials and Units

-74 delivered to Grain 19/1/1914, acceptance test 23/1/1914. not listed as
ever having been on Ark Royal, was at Grain on 29/12/1914

-135 delivered  to HMS Riviera 9/9/1914, lost in Cuxhaven raid due to engine
failure. not listed as ever having been on Ark Royal.

-166 Delivered to Grain 26/8/1915

HTH
Steve

nb 
===========================================
steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk/steveshome.html
  If I didn't spend so much time on line
    ‹‹ I'd get some models finished
            ================


> 
> Date: 18 Jan 01 16:55:39 MET
> From: Friedrich Kappes <FriedKappes@netscape.net>
> To: <British-Navy@egroups.com>, <aeroplanes@egroups.com>,
> Subject: RD Layman, The Cuxhaven Raid
> Message-ID: <20010118155540.12973.qmail@www0l.netaddress.usa.net>
> 
> RD Layman, The Cuxhaven Raid, London: Conway Maritime Press, 1985.
> Somebody owning this book? Could this person send me the info on aircraft
> mentioned there, if there´s something on:
> Short 38: line drawing
> - 74: entry into service, armament (p.e. aboard Ark Royal)
> - Folder: armament (p.e. aboard Hermes of 1913)
> - 135: entry into service, armament (p.e. aboard Ark Royal)
> - 166: entry into service
> - N2B, seaplane, 2 seats: any remarks please
> - Shirl, torpedobomber, wheels with emergency floats, 1 seat: any remarks on
> her?
> Sopwith 807: armament (p.e. aboard Ark Royal)
> Thank you
> 
> Friedrich
> The FriedrichFiles
> 
> http://sites.netscape.net/friedkappes
> Lots of nice links, pictures (photos, drawings, ...), book reviews, literature
> aids, a dictionary,...
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at
> http://home.netscape.com/webmail
> 
> ---------------------


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:07:43 +0000
From: Steve Cox <steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Giant Cookup
Message-ID: <B68FCD42.4041%steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk>

Len, the R.II actually had four engines, coupled to drive the propeller. But
it did look like a single engined a/c. If there is nothing in the picture to
give away the size you'd think it was an ordinary three bay C class machine.
But as you say it was huge - the propeller measured 23 feet - almost the
wingspan of the Nieuport 11

Regards 
Steve

nb 
===========================================
steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk/steveshome.html
  If I didn't spend so much time on line
    ‹‹ I'd get some models finished
            ================
 
> Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:11:57 -0000
> From: "Len Smith" <lensmith@clara.net>
> To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Subject: Re: Giant Cookup
> Message-ID: <003c01c082ca$a5e7a400$1b867ed4@mesh>
> 
> 
> Mark,
> 
> My knowledge of Germaniac Aircraft is minimal to non-existant, but I vaguely
> recall an article in Windsock on a Linke-Hofmann R.II, a SINGLE engined
> aircraft with a span of roughly 130ish feet.  This might provide some
> listees with a rest from the multitude of 0/100s,0/400s, DH3s and10s,
> Blackburn Kangaroos and GP Seaplanes, Vimys and Felixstowes which I am sure
> they are already planning to build.  No doubt some of the more adventurous
> will be looking at the FMP French book and its selection of Bleriots,
> Voisins and Caudrons.   The possibilities are almost endless.
> 
> Regards   Len.
> lensmith@clara.net
> http://home.clara.net/lensmith


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:01:12 -0700
From: "Dale Sebring" <alleluja@ida.net>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: New VAMP Order
Message-ID: <001f01c083cb$c2f045a0$d7b58dd0@main>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Hayes" <thayes_52601@yahoo.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: New VAMP Order


> That we are Alvie.  Lubos still lists the Bristol and
> Ansaldo too.  They're $25.5 ea. Not including
> shipping.  I can't give a shipping charge yet, but
> with yours I estimate it will be about $1.75 each from
> Lubos to me and about $5 for both together from me to
> you.  The first VAMP order should get to me next week
> and I'll send them out right away.
>
> Todd


Hi Todd, would it be possible to get a !/48 Bristol M1C with your Lubos
order?

Best regards,
Dale


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:11:19 -0800
From: Russell W Niles <r_niles1@juno.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Fw: [On30conspiracy] NEW WEB PAGE
Message-ID: <20010121.092501.-208009.0.r_niles1@juno.com>

Hi Gang:
I have launched a new web page devoted to On30 kitbashing ideas and how
to
write ups. It's still in the formative stages and contains a few photos
of
my projects. More info and helpful links will be added over time.
Jim favre
Dalton, MA
http://hometown.aol.com/on30modeler/index.html
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:12:13 -0000
From: "Nigel Rayner" <nigel@rosnar.demon.co.uk>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: RE: Simulating woodgarin
Message-ID: <000001c083d5$ae297880$983bedc1@w1o0t3>

Tom asked:
> Can anyone help with some info on Tamiya Paint.  For the Pup I'm
> attempting
> to paint the woodwork/framing etc.  I used a base coat of Poly Sand, light
> dry brush MM burnt sienna, then attempted to begin top coating with Tamiya
> Clear Red.  For whatever reason the Tamiya won't flow well?

Tom, as others have suggested, just thin the paint with a little water until
it flows ok (I haven't tried soap). I use this for all wood effects and have
no problems with it. I would recommend clear orange and clear yellow rather
than red. There is a good section on woodgrain finishes (various methods) on
the Albatros cookup page. Also, check out my Eduard Albatros - the woodgrain
on this is finished with Tamiya (and there's a brief description of how it's
done).

Chers,

Nigel



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:14:12 -0600
From: Lee <lemen@x25.net>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: wood simulation again
Message-ID: <3A6B26F4.2060100@x25.net>

With some of the comments I woould guess thatr Tamiya paints may need a 
"wetting agent" like they use in Film processing.  A little drop might 
do it if you really want to brush it on.  Kodak made a thing like that 
and I am sure others did as well.  Just a thought since that is an agent 
in soap products also.  Never used the stuff but it is the chemistry 
that makes the difference and "a little drop'll do ya.

Lee M.

Francisca e Pedro Soares wrote:

> Tamya paints in my most humble opinion are absolutely impossible to brush
> paint, and they are not much betteer when shot from an airbrush either. I
> never could make anything of them.
> 
> Probably my fault but they are the reason I never made the switch to
> acrylics...
> 
> Pedro
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: TOM PLESHA <APPMAN@worldnet.att.net>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 2:15 PM
> Subject: wood simulation again
> 
> 
>> Hi-
>> One suggestion was to use a bit of soap in the Tamiya paint- it did not
>> change the result.
>> I will continue trying suggestions, etc. and post successful results.
>> Tom
>> 
>> 


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:29:39 EST
From: KarrArt@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Wood simulation
Message-ID: <5d.6278889.279c8493@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/21/01 5:00:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
hans.trauner@nefkom.net writes:

<<  What's about your U.S. wonder Future? Has anybody
 tried to tint it orange or brown?
 
 H. >>

Yep- I make up batches to represent various substances- dope, varnish, 
etc..... 2/3 of a film canister of Future with just a drop or two of any 
appropriate acrylic color.....seasoned to taste. Sprays well, brushes well.
RK

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:41:04 EST
From: MAnde72343@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: ot heads-up
Message-ID: <33.f9764d7.279c8740@aol.com>


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I have both, the DML is superior in almost every way, although the BM engine 
is nice.
Merrill 



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I have both, the DML is superior in almost every way, although the BM engine 
<BR>is nice.
<BR>Merrill 
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: 21 Jan 2001 13:15:03 -0800
From: Mark Miller <albatros1212@altavista.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: RE: Most Important?
Message-ID: <20010121211503.11566.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net>

On Thu, 18 January 2001, Crawford Neil wrote:

> 
> It's a myth that warfare benefits new technology. If you look at 
> aviation the major strides were made between 1903-1912 when the
> basic conceptions were worked out. Then between 1919 and 1926,
> all the advances in engine-cooling, variable propellors,
> retractable undercarriages and all-metal monocoque construction
> were made. During the thirties the jet engine  and radar were developed
> , and then after WW2 supersonic flight was achieved. Naturally there
> are some thing invented during wartime, but mostly the concentration 
> is on refinement and production during that time. If you don't believe
> me look at the Supermarine S4 from 1926, that lacked very little.
> I look forward to the discussion on this one!
> /Neil


Hi all
I must admit this question of the influence of war on the technological advancement of the airplane bugged me. How could this be so? Everyone "knows" that the airplane was a product of war. I don't consider myself to be a slave to conventional wisdom but it just didn't seem right.
So I looked through some books (and actually read the text as opposed to just looking at the pictures) and I'll be damned but your right.  The question was about technological advancement of the airplane and it does appear that airplane design benefited very little from WW1. In fact if you look at aerodynamics it seems that the state of the art went backwards.  The Deperdusion was a far more advanced design, in this respect, than was typical of WW1 AC. But I think this is deceptive, the deperdusion was designed with one purpose - speed, and as such was in no way a viable airplane for any other purpose. I think one of the biggest contributors to this technological stagnation was the need for durability, and in 1914-18 this meant biplanes and biplanes mean drag.  Perhaps the best illustration of this is the fact that Bechereau, the designer of the Depurdussion went on to design the SPAD 13, which is a prime examples of a rugged yet aerodynamically sloppy WW1 era fighter. 
All right - then why did performance improve?
Well it would seem this is entirely the result of drastic improvements in engine design. Pre-war planes were typically powered by 90 hp engines - by the end of WW1 300-400 hp was common. So a 250% increase in power resulted in only 75% increase in speed.  So performance improved but not nearly as much as one might think it should have.

In any case, one has to agree that war did little to advance the art of aircraft design and my thanks to Eli and Neil for clarifying this, I must admit I was misinformed

But….
 I think this all hides a larger truth - and that 's what is bugging me.
And that is that war, or the threat of it, made aviation.
I admit this is not the same thing, but I do think these two subjects have become somewhat confused - at least it did in my mind

I ran across this in the book "Milestones of Aviation" - and I think Richard K. Smith makes the point pretty well:

"More concerned with production than contributing to improvements in airplane design, World War 1 contributed less to the airplane than it did to aviation. It took aviation out of the hands of inventors, tinkerers, and sportsman and created the foundations of an industry. It trained thousands of young men in design, manufacture, operations, and maintenance, and established aviation as a vital aspect of national security."

cool thread, always nice to find out what you don't know
Mark Miller 






Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:35:15 +1000
From: Shane Weier <sdw@qld.mim.com.au>
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: RE: Price of Toko/Roden, was Thanks Neil and Steven
Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7101748A7F@mimhexch1.mim.com.au>

Pedro says:

> Just received a messae from NKR and Earl now lists the Gotha 
> at 32 AUD.

Ah, yes, that's more like it. A$42 seemed a bit over the top.

 

Shane























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intended only for the use of the addressee(s).
If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to
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**********************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:40:37 +1000
From: Shane Weier <sdw@qld.mim.com.au>
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: RE: Price of Toko/Roden, was Thanks Neil and Steven
Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7101748A80@mimhexch1.mim.com.au>

Jan says:



> 
> > Gotha
> > should be in the same price as He.111 - about $18.
> 

> Cripes, my next cruise will be to Poland. ;-)

You might as well. The price for the kit in Australia equates to just under
US$18 too, but I fear that the on cost of cruising here might be a *little*
much :-)

Shane











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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is
intended only for the use of the addressee(s).
If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:43:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Hayes <thayes_52601@yahoo.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: New VAMP Order
Message-ID: <20010121214317.35073.qmail@web9010.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Dale,

No problem.  With shipping the total is $32.  Make the
check out to Betty Hayes.  My address is:

Todd Hayes
2910 Market
Burlington, IA.
52601
--- Dale Sebring <alleluja@ida.net> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd Hayes" <thayes_52601@yahoo.com>
> To: "Multiple recipients of list"
> <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 11:13 PM
> Subject: Re: New VAMP Order
> 
> 
> > That we are Alvie.  Lubos still lists the Bristol
> and
> > Ansaldo too.  They're $25.5 ea. Not including
> > shipping.  I can't give a shipping charge yet, but
> > with yours I estimate it will be about $1.75 each
> from
> > Lubos to me and about $5 for both together from me
> to
> > you.  The first VAMP order should get to me next
> week
> > and I'll send them out right away.
> >
> > Todd
> 
> 
> Hi Todd, would it be possible to get a !/48 Bristol
> M1C with your Lubos
> order?
> 
> Best regards,
> Dale
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. 
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:50:37 +1000
From: Shane Weier <sdw@qld.mim.com.au>
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: RE: Roden Gotha G-V announcement
Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7101748A81@mimhexch1.mim.com.au>

John says:


> Well, talk about luck.  Here I was all set to start as my 
> next project my
> old Cramer Craft vac form 1/72 kit of the G-V. I guess I am 
> luckier than
> you Shane.  I didn't even get it started.  Maybe I'll be a 
> masochist and do
> this as the lozenge covered G-Va with the biplane tail, 
> unless Roden is
> going to include that option!!! 

I think we should all remember that when these kits were upcoming *Toko*
kits there were intended to be FOUR versions and I don't suppose anything
but the name has changed.

If I were you (or any list member) and thinking of buying several of the
first kit as fodder for conversions, I might rethink and wait for the others
to arrive

Shane













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intended only for the use of the addressee(s).
If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to
forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the 
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 15:20:12 -0700
From: "Dale Sebring" <alleluja@ida.net>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: New VAMP Order
Message-ID: <006301c083f8$5319c620$a1a58dd0@main>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd Hayes" <thayes_52601@yahoo.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: New VAMP Order


> Hi Dale,
> 
> No problem.  With shipping the total is $32.  Make the
> check out to Betty Hayes.  My address is:
> 
> Todd Hayes
> 2910 Market
> Burlington, IA.
> 52601



Thanks Todd, I'll send check tomarrow.
Regards,
Dale

> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Todd Hayes" <thayes_52601@yahoo.com>
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list"
> > <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 11:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: New VAMP Order
> > 
> > 
> > > That we are Alvie.  Lubos still lists the Bristol
> > and
> > > Ansaldo too.  They're $25.5 ea. Not including
> > > shipping.  I can't give a shipping charge yet, but
> > > with yours I estimate it will be about $1.75 each
> > from
> > > Lubos to me and about $5 for both together from me
> > to
> > > you.  The first VAMP order should get to me next
> > week
> > > and I'll send them out right away.
> > >
> > > Todd
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Todd, would it be possible to get a !/48 Bristol
> > M1C with your Lubos
> > order?
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Dale
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. 
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
> 


------------------------------

End of WWI Digest 2996
**********************