WWI Digest 2995 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Guys, clue me in! by Eli Geher 2) Re: A/G list by "DAVID BURKE" 3) Re: Eduard 1/72nd D.V help by Marc Flake 4) Re: A/G list by "John & Allison Cyganowski" 5) Re: NEW LOZENGE DECALS!!! by "TOM PLESHA" 6) Wood simulation by "TOM PLESHA" 7) Re: Spare kits to trade by "Dale Sebring" 8) Re: Spad G.1 by Zulis@aol.com 9) Re: Wood simulation by Ernest Thomas 10) Re: New VAMP Order by "David Calhoun" 11) Re: New VAMP Order by Todd Hayes 12) Re: Spad G.1 by Todd Hayes 13) New VAMP Order by Todd Hayes 14) Kits for Kids Update by "Steven M.Perry" 15) Re: New VAMP Order by "Michael S. Alvarado" 16) Re: New VAMP Order by "Michael S. Alvarado" 17) Re: New VAMP Order by Todd Hayes 18) New VAMP Order by Todd Hayes 19) RE: Wood simulation by "Gaston Graf" 20) ot CRASH by "Gaston Graf" 21) Re: ot heads-up by "Sandy Adam" 22) Re: What's on the Bench? by "D Charles" 23) Junkers book by "D Charles" 24) RE: Eduard Bittner scale DV by "Nigel Rayner" 25) Re: Roden Gotha G-V announcement by Witold Kozakiewicz 26) Re: Wood simulation by "Hans Trauner" 27) Re: ot heads-up by "John & Allison Cyganowski" 28) RE: Rumpler Internal Designations by "Graham Nash" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:03:45 -0600 From: Eli Geher To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Guys, clue me in! Message-ID: <3A6A3571.3AD15780@hiwaay.net> DAVID BURKE wrote: > So before I go off listing things in an attempt to look like I know > what the hell I'm rambling about, can you suggest some good reading material > on A/C development? The following items come to mind. Periodicals: . W.W.I Aero magazine which also covers a lot of pre-war subjects. . American Aviation Historical Society Journal Books: . Invention of the Airplane by C. H. Gibbs-Smith . The Bishop's Boys by Thomas Crouch ; A good biography of the Wright brothers . How We Invented the Airplane by Orville Wright . Curtiss - The Hammondsport Years by Louis Casey . Jane's Historical Aircraft from 1902 to 1916 (reprint) . Jane's all the world's Aircraft (reprint) . Hugo Junkers and His Aircraft by Gunter Schmitt . The Fokker and Sopwith books from the old Harleyford series. With apologies to all who think I've included garbage or omitted gold. Some of the above material is useful for modeling but most of it isn't. Eli ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:31:44 -0600 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: A/G list Message-ID: <001001c0834a$2137d6a0$1090aec7@com> Thanks! DB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Kendix" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 7:07 PM Subject: Re: A/G list > >From: Ernest Thomas > >DAVID BURKE wrote: > > > > > Who was it that was working on an online list for Americal/Gryphon? > > > >I think it's already on the list site. > >E. > > AFAOK, they are not on the unh site. Go to: > > http://home.sprintmail.com/~tbittners/AG/ > > > Michael > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:59:27 -0600 From: Marc Flake To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Eduard 1/72nd D.V help Message-ID: <3A6A427F.343C@airmail.net> Matt: I built three of these and the machine guns were among the last pieces to be affixed. I used long thin tweezers with a slight bend at the tip. Marc (Who's getting the scanner warmed up for the rest of the pictures of my Y2K OT projects.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:12:01 -0500 From: "John & Allison Cyganowski" To: Subject: Re: A/G list Message-ID: <001801c0834f$8bb98460$bc37183f@cyrixp166> I have most of the Americal list in an Excel spreadsheet. If somebody needs this, let me know. Regards, John Cyg. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Kendix To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 8:07 PM Subject: Re: A/G list > >From: Ernest Thomas > >DAVID BURKE wrote: > > > > > Who was it that was working on an online list for Americal/Gryphon? > > > >I think it's already on the list site. > >E. > > AFAOK, they are not on the unh site. Go to: > > http://home.sprintmail.com/~tbittners/AG/ > > > Michael > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:31:48 -0500 From: "TOM PLESHA" To: Subject: Re: NEW LOZENGE DECALS!!! Message-ID: <000b01c08352$4ea58080$e0414c0c@tom> Hi Todd- I have a multiple sets I think they are great. I also have multiple sets of CSM 5 color and the naval loz. I also ordered multiple sets of the Eagle Strike but have not received them yet. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Hayes" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 7:09 PM Subject: Re: NEW LOZENGE DECALS!!! > Hi Tom, > > Pretty nice? I think I know the answer. > > Todd > > > --- TOM PLESHA wrote: > > Ditto for CSM decals > > Tom P > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Todd Hayes" > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 6:43 PM > > Subject: Re: NEW LOZENGE DECALS!!! > > > > > > > Dave, > > > > > > So try some of the new CSM 4-color loz! > > > > > > Todd > > > > > > --- DAVID BURKE wrote: > > > > Hi Gang!! > > > > > > > > I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but > > > > Eagle Strike Productions > > > > has just released 4-color loz decals- upper and > > > > lower - in BOTH 1/72 and > > > > 1/48 scales! The colors are dark and muted > > (like I > > > > like them) and they are > > > > presented in bolts, like A/G decals. They look > > like > > > > a cross between A/G > > > > with the printing look of CSM. > > > > > > > > Also available are rib tapes. These looked > > > > good, but I still prefer to > > > > do my own. > > > > > > > > > > Thought > > > > you might like to know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DB > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great > > prices. > > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:38:14 -0500 From: "TOM PLESHA" To: Subject: Wood simulation Message-ID: <002901c08353$34892020$e0414c0c@tom> Can anyone help with some info on Tamiya Paint. For the Pup I'm attempting to paint the woodwork/framing etc. I used a base coat of Poly Sand, light dry brush MM burnt sienna, then attempted to begin top coating with Tamiya Clear Red. For whatever reason the Tamiya won't flow well? Thanks Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:51:48 -0700 From: "Dale Sebring" To: Subject: Re: Spare kits to trade Message-ID: <000d01c08355$1a6d3f80$7ab58dd0@main> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven M.Perry" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: Spare kits to trade > I have an extra Toko HB-29 and a Pegasus DH-4 to trade. Also several > Toko/Eastern Express Nie.11s. Looking for old 1/72 vacs or Merlins. > > LMK > sp Hi Steve, did you receive my email about this querry? Dale ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:14:32 EST From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Spad G.1 Message-ID: <74.709ba51.279bae18@aol.com> lensmith@clara.net writes: << In the event of jams or running out of ammunition some extremely high quality gymnastics would be required from the pilot. >> Or very very quick hands..... DZ :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:17:07 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Wood simulation Message-ID: <3A6A54B2.10AA9129@bellsouth.net> TOM PLESHA wrote: > Can anyone help with some info on Tamiya Paint.(snips) For whatever reason > the Tamiya won't flow well? Add a tiny bit of dish soap. Or any kind of soap, really. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:23:00 -0800 From: "David Calhoun" To: Subject: Re: New VAMP Order Message-ID: <008501c08372$9b5197a0$93f13ccc@oemcomputer> Hi Todd, Put me down for the Spad A.4. Dave Calhoun 10 Lake Drive Enfield, CT 06082 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Hayes" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 4:06 PM Subject: New VAMP Order > I'm putting in another order to Lubos. This time I'm > sending for one each of the Spin Spad kits. If anyone > wishes they may piggyback. > > Todd > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:33:40 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New VAMP Order Message-ID: <20010121043340.34901.qmail@web9006.mail.yahoo.com> Dave, Will do but I'm not sure how much shipping per kit from Lubos will be yet. It depends on the number of kits ordered. I didn't realize on the first order that shipping from him caps at $15. So the first order was $15 for 15 kits!! $3.50 will cover the cost from me to you. The extra will be used to cover any additional costs for shipping from me to you and the others. And in case you didn't catch it, the first order is on its way to me. Should be here next week. I'll send them off immediately. The Spad is $21 for the kit ($42 from Roll Models). Todd Todd --- David Calhoun wrote: > Hi Todd, > Put me down for the Spad A.4. > Dave Calhoun > 10 Lake Drive > Enfield, CT 06082 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Todd Hayes" > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 4:06 PM > Subject: New VAMP Order > > > > I'm putting in another order to Lubos. This time > I'm > > sending for one each of the Spin Spad kits. If > anyone > > wishes they may piggyback. > > > > Todd > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great > prices. > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:35:18 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Spad G.1 Message-ID: <20010121043518.95257.qmail@web9009.mail.yahoo.com> Like light speed!!? Todd --- Zulis@aol.com wrote: > lensmith@clara.net writes: > > << In the event of > jams or running out of ammunition some extremely > high quality gymnastics > would be required from the pilot. >> > > Or very very quick hands..... > > DZ :-) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:44:09 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: New VAMP Order Message-ID: <20010121044409.35763.qmail@web9006.mail.yahoo.com> I'm setting the cut-off for additions to the order at Jan., 26 (next Friday). All scales welcome (except 1:32. They take too long to get). Todd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:47:44 -0500 From: "Steven M.Perry" To: Subject: Kits for Kids Update Message-ID: <00e101c08365$4c3a5240$06f1aec7@default> I received the last kit today. I have a couple of more writeups to take care of and I will be shipping the box out this coming week. There are 10 kits Aurora Albatros - Jack Gartner Testors Spad - Dave Zulis Testors Spad & Nieuport - Dave Calhoun Monogram SE.5a, Fok D.VII, Camel & Smer SVA 5 - Tom Solinski Smer Camel & Fok D.VII - myself In addition 5 bottles of Testors Liquid Glue and 5 packs of emory boards - Rob 10 Tubes of Testors glue - Brent Theobald $10 USD for postage - Dave Zulis Fokker D.VII writeup - Lyle Lambly Spad writeup - Niel Crawford SVA writeup - Alberto Casarati Nieuport writeup - myself "Why I Build Models" writeup & short description of the list - E. Anyone still want in on the act, I could use a short writeup on the Albatros & the SE.5. Couple of paragraphs about the plane and a couple about someone who flew one. LMK. After giving all sides of the issue some thought, I think that the best way to handle any questions about building the kits or about WWI aviation in general would be for the teacher to send them to me. I will post them to the list and collect the various answers and relay them back to her. This leaves her in charge and yet allows everyone on the List who has expressed a willingness to answer questions for the kids an opportunity to do so. I would hope we might get some photos back one day, but I don't want to ask them for any as I don't want to put pressure on them. I imagine most of these kits will end up loking like your typical "Make & Take" products replete with glue spooges and crooked decals. IIRC, as a kid, my models were exactly as described above, but that didn't affect their ability to take my imagination on flights of fantasy and start a learning process that continues to this day. And that's the object of the exercise here, isn't it? Finally, I will add a great big HAVE FUN! from all of us on the List. Y'all are the greatest! sp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:18:07 -0500 From: "Michael S. Alvarado" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New VAMP Order Message-ID: <3A6A710E.5810FB52@bellatlantic.net> Todd, Put me down for one each SPAD (we're talking the A2 and A4 right?) Alvie Todd Hayes wrote: > I'm putting in another order to Lubos. This time I'm > sending for one each of the Spin Spad kits. If anyone > wishes they may piggyback. > > Todd > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:20:04 -0500 From: "Michael S. Alvarado" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New VAMP Order Message-ID: <3A6A7184.84A37F32@bellatlantic.net> Todd, I don't know if this got sent previously but me down for one of each (we are talking about the SPIN SPAD A2 and A4 right?) Alvie Todd Hayes wrote: > I'm putting in another order to Lubos. This time I'm > sending for one each of the Spin Spad kits. If anyone > wishes they may piggyback. > > Todd > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:09:35 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New VAMP Order Message-ID: <20010121060935.89777.qmail@web9010.mail.yahoo.com> That we are Alvie. Lubos still lists the Bristol and Ansaldo too. They're $25.5 ea. Not including shipping. I can't give a shipping charge yet, but with yours I estimate it will be about $1.75 each from Lubos to me and about $5 for both together from me to you. The first VAMP order should get to me next week and I'll send them out right away. Todd --- "Michael S. Alvarado" wrote: > Todd, > > I don't know if this got sent previously but me down > for one of > each (we are talking about the SPIN SPAD A2 and A4 > right?) > > Alvie > > Todd Hayes wrote: > > > I'm putting in another order to Lubos. This time > I'm > > sending for one each of the Spin Spad kits. If > anyone > > wishes they may piggyback. > > > > Todd > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great > prices. > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:36:14 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: New VAMP Order Message-ID: <20010121063614.96676.qmail@web9010.mail.yahoo.com> So far I have enough kit requests to set shipping charges. $1.50 per kit from Lubos plus $3.50 from me to you for one kit. $5.00 for two kits. $1.00 for each additional kit. VAMP's site is at w3.inshop.cz/vamp Check for what you want and let me know the price or I'll look it up and let you know. Todd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:10:40 +0100 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: RE: Wood simulation Message-ID: Tom, to simulate wood I use a combination of artist oils and enamels. First underpaint the parts using and enamel flat sandbrown like those from Humbrol or Revell. Let it dry and paint the wood structure using burnd sienna oil paint. The sand brown will shine through the reddish burnd sienna, giving it a realistic look of wood. I have heard from other people who use a combination of sand brown and redbrown felt-tip pento paind small wooden parts such as struts of props. With the pen they paint the wooden structure. happy modeling Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of > TOM PLESHA > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 3:40 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Wood simulation > > > Can anyone help with some info on Tamiya Paint. For the Pup I'm > attempting > to paint the woodwork/framing etc. I used a base coat of Poly Sand, light > dry brush MM burnt sienna, then attempted to begin top coating with Tamiya > Clear Red. For whatever reason the Tamiya won't flow well? > Thanks > Tom > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:10:41 +0100 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: ot CRASH Message-ID: Folks, some on this list are interested into WWII aircraft as well so I would like to inform you people that there was a fantastic book released in Luxembourg about all the crashes of Allied and German aircraft on the territory of the Grand-Duchy in WWII. The books title is CRASH. It got written by Mr John Derneden who lives only 10 min from my house. Mr. Derneden is a seargent-officer of the Luxemburgish Army. In some cases Mr. Derneden was able to solve the secret about the fate of some pilots. Unfortunately his book is only in German but he is thinking about doing an English version of it and I will maybe assist him with that. So I would like to ask you people about your interest in such book. Would you buy a book which deals with crash sites in the Grand-Duchy of Luxembourg if it is written in English? I should maybe point out that the book contains all data Mr. Derneden could find about the aircraft and pilot. Included are pictures of the crash site as well as official casualty reports of the US forces. And remember that a big part of the Battle of the Bulge played on Luxemburgish territory in 1944/45. The Vol. II of "Crash" will include a report about the crash site of one of the most famouse P-51s - THE BIG BEAUTIFUL DOLL - which crashed in Dellen in Luxembourg Vol. II will also include many other reports indeed. Before I close I would like to make a suggestion to the list masters: Why not opening an WWII list as well so the list members of this list - who are also interested into WWII - would not always need to misuse the WWI list to talk about the other war? sincerely Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:01:30 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WW1 Group" Subject: Re: ot heads-up Message-ID: <004201c083a1$ff5e0920$0fe8b094@sandyada> >The production quality makes the very first BM kit, >the Junkers D.I, look like state of the art Hasegawa I think you mean the very second BM kit, the Junkers D.I (kit BM102), don't you. The very first was the Fokker Dr1, kit BM101. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:10:29 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Re: What's on the Bench? Message-ID: <02ad01c083a3$f83f9bc0$222ad7d2@charls> Finishing off a 1/48 DHC 4 Caribou (it's rather large) whilst a crashed DH5 sits in the corner waiting for its top wing to be replaced. David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:15:42 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Junkers book Message-ID: <02ae01c083a3$f939da40$222ad7d2@charls> Eli, Is this one in English oder Deutsch? David >Books: > >. Hugo Junkers and His Aircraft by Gunter Schmitt > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:18:38 -0000 From: "Nigel Rayner" To: Subject: RE: Eduard Bittner scale DV Message-ID: <000001c083a4$48b26560$983bedc1@w1o0t3> Matt asked: > For those who have built the Eduard 1/72nd D.V. Is it possible to add > the guns *after* the fuselage halves are together? I really don't want > to put them on until then. Yes it is. That's what I did (I used CSM photoetch/resin replacements). The placement is "vague," but I just glued them on where they looked right. I think it's best to add them after the fuselage is closed becuse you really can get the alignment right. Also, it means I didn't have to mask them off when varnishing the fuselage (I use spray from a can). And c'mon, get that cookup entry done. We look forward to seeing it. Cheers, Nigel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:36:39 +0100 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Roden Gotha G-V announcement Message-ID: <3A6AD7D7.6C7BBB49@bg.am.lodz.pl> Brian Nicklas napisał(a): > > I think I will wait on the Roden Gothas for the G.V myself. I will do tha same. I wanted to buy first G.II which would show in my shop, but now I wait for G.V and then choose one I will buy. -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:58:49 +0100 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: Wood simulation Message-ID: <004801c083a9$e6595620$cca072d4@custom-pc> >...then attempted to begin top coating with Tamiya >Clear Red. For whatever reason the Tamiya won't flow well? I made the same experience. I tried thinning down Tamiya, works better, take minutes to dry, but years to harden. So I stopped using Tamiya for this purpose. Gunze works a little better for me, but is also not the best solution I can imagine. What's about your U.S. wonder Future? Has anybody tried to tint it orange or brown? H. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 08:33:26 -0500 From: "John & Allison Cyganowski" To: Subject: Re: ot heads-up Message-ID: <006d01c083ae$bcf3b410$f437183f@cyrixp166> Hi Sandy, I saw the Dr.1 for sale at a show once but I did not but it. Today I would probably snap it up. How was that kit in terms of quality? Is it better to stick to the DML Dr.1? Regards, Cyg. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 7:06 AM Subject: Re: ot heads-up > >The production quality makes the very first BM kit, > >the Junkers D.I, look like state of the art Hasegawa > > I think you mean the very second BM kit, the Junkers D.I (kit BM102), don't > you. The very first was the Fokker Dr1, kit BM101. > Sandy > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:59:36 -0000 From: "Graham Nash" To: Subject: RE: Rumpler Internal Designations Message-ID: Thank for the response Lance :-). So far, all I can tell you is that the first number (4,5,6,7,8) defines the year (of design?) to whit: 1914=4, 1915=5, 1916=6 etc. I thought that the Letter refered to the German Military system, B=2 seater, D=1 seater, but the 7A type was not a monoplane, so you suggestion of A (for Argus?), B (for Benz), D for (Daimler/Mercedes) makes a lot of sense. The final letter may then just refer to the number of designs that year. Any more ideas anyone? Uncle Sniffy -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of Lance Krieg Sent: 17 January 2001 16:17 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Rumpler Internal Designations Grahham asks: "... how Rumpler's internal designation system worked?" I tried to figure this out last night, and could find no documentation in the Thetford and Gray tome on German planes. I also tried to make logical deductions from their various experimentals, but was pretty well baffled: the sytem used a numeral, a letter, and then (sometimes) another numeral, like so: 7A2. But the progression of a test airplane might be 7A, 7B, 7B1, 8B. I would guess that one designator was the airframe, and another the powerplant, but I'm damned if I know how it worked. I'll check my World War I Aero index, which is the only other place I can think of that might have some of this information. Sorry, Lance ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2995 **********************