WWI Digest 2985 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Received Some Resin by Brent Theobald 2) Giant Cookup by "aa8." 3) RE: Most Important? by Shane Weier 4) RE: Most Important? by Shane Weier 5) RE: Most Important? by Shane Weier 6) HR Models by Todd Hayes 7) RE: Most Important? by Todd Hayes 8) Re: New exciting updates by MAnde72343@aol.com 9) Re: Site Update by MAnde72343@aol.com 10) Duh...ahhh by "Steven M.Perry" 11) Re: Latest OtF by "Bob Pearson" 12) re: Tauro Woodgrain Decals by Todd Hayes 13) 1/48 DVII by NodalPoint@aol.com 14) Re: 1/48 DVII by Todd Hayes 15) RE: 1/48 DVII by Shane Weier 16) RE: 1/48 DVII by Todd Hayes 17) Future Pegasus Releases by "Courtney Allen" 18) Re: 1/48 DVII by "DAVID BURKE" 19) Re: Giant Cookup by Shane & Lorna Jenkins 20) If... - was Most Important A/C by "Sandy Adam" 21) some roumors by Witold Kozakiewicz 22) Re: some roumors by Ernest Thomas 23) RE: some roumors by Crawford Neil 24) Roden Gotha's by "Matt Bittner" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:23:50 -0600 From: Brent Theobald To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Received Some Resin Message-ID: <4B9386E83999D411997100508BAF206A79EC56@stamail.telecom.sna.samsung.com> Howdy! Some resin arrived in the mail yesterday from the lovely Mary Hovden of Roll Models. Now I'm able to compare some HR Resins with RHVP models. Wow! No comparison. They sent me the Vickers FB-19 from RHVP and the Nieuport 24-27 and Pfalz E.V from HR. The Nieuport is embarrasing. They didn't even remove the ejector pin marks or alignment pins from the plastic kit they ripped off. I figure it's the Toko kit. The detail is very heavy too. The Phalz is better. The RHVP kit is a little gem. This is another tiny aircaft. It looks like RHVP copied Pegasus seats though. Judging by these kits I'd say "go for it" for any RHVP kit. I'd be a little afraid of what comes in the HR boxes though. Look for complete reviews online. Later! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:34:17 -0000 From: "aa8." To: Subject: Giant Cookup Message-ID: <004301c080d5$bfcac420$d8183c3e@tinypc> From: aa8. To: Subject: Giant Cook Up Date: 17 January 2001 12:29 I'm writing again after some thought regarding Shanes idea of a 'Giant Cookup'. This could include large aircraft from all combatant countries and could include such aircraft as H.P. 0/400, Vimy, DH10, Muromets, Staaken, Gotha's etc. As I said previously I would like to contribute a Gotha but would stick my neck out for a Staaken if I could get hold of one. There seems to be plenty of interest in larger aircraft from the period. Also is there anyone out there who would be willing or able to sell me the above mentioned Staaken? Also if this cookup hapens, who's going to build the 1/144th scale SSW R.I. (Blue Rider Kit)? All views and opinions gratefully received. Andy Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:10:18 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Most Important? Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7101748A5A@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> DB > BTW, I wasn't the first to mention the F-4, F-104, or F-14. > Instead, I went > BACK towards the very beginning, so if it went ot, at least I > erred in the right direction! ROTFL Now that'w what they like. Inventive dissembling ;-) Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:47:45 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Most Important? Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7101748A5B@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Eli pipes up: (hello mate, nice to see you are still here!) > I couldn't agree more with your position. At the risk of > offending the list, WW1 aviation in itself accomplished > little strategically or tactically. Probably true, except to demonstrate that the airplane could not be ignored as an instrument of warfare, and to define most of the various roles in which they'd be used for the next 80+ years > The reconnaissance > activity was important but the fighter activity was useful > only in so far as it supported or suppressed recon flights. I have to disagree here. As I understand it, that is *still* one ofthe prime roles of fighter aircraft (plus supporting or suppressing bombing, which in fact they also did in WW1) That said, I contend that the fighter aircraft had already defined its role > The least known accomplishment of the period was the > transition from cut and test design to disciplined > engineering of airplanes. I've sometimes argued here that aircraft design in WW1 was *not* always a simple matter of "suck it and see" and had even heard of > Ludwig Prandtl in Germany and > Barnes Wallace > in England but I'm afraid that the pretty well invisible American industry of the time never crossed my conscience so.. > Jerome Hunsicker in the US were true > pioneers in this area. ...I've never heard of Hunsicker. Which brings me to the point. Do you know of any book which deals with the early years of theoretical aircraft design. I'm most interested in the personalities, rather than the mathematical details of their work Shane (I'm an electrical engineer who moved as quickly as possible after uni far into the digital field to avoid mathematics involving numbers more complex than 1 and 0 ! ) ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:51:58 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Most Important? Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7101748A5C@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Michael > Wasn't escort a large area of responsibility for fighters in > the years that > followed; e.g. WW2? True, I think the idea of bomber escort > was either not > thought of or not thought useful at that time. No, escort WAS done, and attempted virtually from the beginning. The difficulty was communications, so it was common for escorts to miss their charges. Also, it was frequently the case on both sides for aircraft of the same type, from the same unit, to be tasked with recce or bombing on the one hand, and with escorting their recce/bombing aircraft on the other. Not terribly successful in every case of course, but it was done. > Not to mention the swing wing aeroplane and scratchbuilding a > working 1/1 > space vehicle with the help of his pet dog. I wonder how many of us will "get it" ? Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:23:17 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: HR Models Message-ID: <20010118002317.9044.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Several HR Models kits have been reviewed in IM. So far, the reviews seem to suggest that kits by this company range in quality from very good to not so good. Since I've seen only the 1:48 PV7, I cannot comment directly on HR Models quality in general, but the PV7 appears to be a fairly good kit that with a little work could be a nice addition to a 1:48 collection. TH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:26:50 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Most Important? Message-ID: <20010118002650.9505.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Shane, Aeroplane Books has an excellent section on Pioneer Aviation. Perhaps you'll find a suitable book there. Todd --- Shane Weier wrote: > Eli pipes up: (hello mate, nice to see you are still > here!) > > > I couldn't agree more with your position. At the > risk of > > offending the list, WW1 aviation in itself > accomplished > > little strategically or tactically. > > Probably true, except to demonstrate that the > airplane could not be ignored > as an instrument of warfare, and to define most of > the various roles in > which they'd be used for the next 80+ years > > The reconnaissance > > activity was important but the fighter activity > was useful > > only in so far as it supported or suppressed recon > flights. > > I have to disagree here. As I understand it, that is > *still* one ofthe prime > roles of fighter aircraft (plus supporting or > suppressing bombing, which in > fact they also did in WW1) That said, I contend that > the fighter aircraft > had already defined its role > > > The least known accomplishment of the period was > the > > transition from cut and test design to disciplined > > engineering of airplanes. > > I've sometimes argued here that aircraft design in > WW1 was *not* always a > simple matter of "suck it and see" and had even > heard of > > > Ludwig Prandtl in Germany > > and > > > Barnes Wallace > > in England > > but I'm afraid that the pretty well invisible > American industry of the time > never crossed my conscience so.. > > > Jerome Hunsicker in the US were true > > pioneers in this area. > > ..I've never heard of Hunsicker. Which brings me to > the point. > > Do you know of any book which deals with the early > years of theoretical > aircraft design. I'm most interested in the > personalities, rather than the > mathematical details of their work > > > Shane > > (I'm an electrical engineer who moved as quickly as > possible after uni far > into the digital field to avoid mathematics > involving numbers more complex > than 1 and 0 ! ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > The information contained in this e-mail is > confidential and is > intended only for the use of the addressee(s). > If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, > distribution or > copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are > requested to > forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to > the > MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. > > e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au > phone: Australia 1800500646 > ********************************************************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:28:56 EST From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New exciting updates Message-ID: --part1_c6.1017d39f.279792c8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having seen most of Steve's planes up close, I can tell you, photos do not do them justice (my stuff oddly, looks better in photos), but Steve Hustad's stuff must be seen first hand, to be really appreciated (and you thought you could feel only a little unworthy) Merrill --part1_c6.1017d39f.279792c8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having seen most of Steve's planes up close, I can tell you, photos do not do
them justice (my stuff oddly, looks better in photos), but Steve Hustad's
stuff must be seen first hand, to be really appreciated (and you thought you
could feel only a little unworthy)
Merrill
--part1_c6.1017d39f.279792c8_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:47:44 EST From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Site Update Message-ID: <96.ed77607.27979730@aol.com> --part1_96.ed77607.27979730_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard a day late, but WOW! You're a braver man than I, and a better modeler too! Merrill --part1_96.ed77607.27979730_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard a day late, but WOW!  You're a braver man than I, and a better
modeler too!
Merrill

--part1_96.ed77607.27979730_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:09:15 -0500 From: "Steven M.Perry" To: Subject: Duh...ahhh Message-ID: <009201c080f3$a9ca7580$58f1aec7@default> Duuh...ahhh did I loan my copy of Aces High to anyone on the List? sp who is glad all his parts came attached, 'cause he'd loose something for sure if they weren't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:26:50 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Latest OtF Message-ID: <200101180355.TAA08812@mail.rapidnet.net> Matt says ... > 15/3 of Over the Front showed up today. There's a lot to get through > in this issue! Luckily only one article on a British subject. :-) > Seriously though, it's one of the better issues. Plus Bob has an ad > for his CD in there, and supplies the excellent (although printed very > dark) color profile of SPAD 7 S.1777 on the back cover. WOW. . is he ever right. . so far every single profile I have had in OTF has been misprinted in some way, but this is the worse by far. ... Take a look at the Vickers gun .. and note the colour .. it should be in black and grays. .. the entire thing has way too much magenta in it/ > One interesting observation I didn't know - there were a couple of SPAD > 7's that took part of the fly-over in which the multi-colored SPAD 13's > flew that a few listee's supplied to IM. Very interesting. You do > learn something new every day. The ones I like are the SPADs with the anemic looking cats on them. .. definately have to profile them for the CD. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:07:28 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: re: Tauro Woodgrain Decals Message-ID: <20010118030728.12828.qmail@web9008.mail.yahoo.com> Has any listee used these decals before? What's your opinion on them? TH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:21:51 EST From: NodalPoint@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: 1/48 DVII Message-ID: <61.a926450.2797bb4f@aol.com> Who makes the Fokker DVII in 1/48? DML right? But are they still producing them? I thought I heard someone say they don't sell that kit anymore. Any opinions on who's DVII kit is best and where I may order from. Thanks, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:59:12 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: 1/48 DVII Message-ID: <20010118035912.43184.qmail@web9009.mail.yahoo.com> Steve, DML made the D.VII and it was by far the best one done. As for where you can get one, all I can say is good luck!! If you find a copy, buy it!!! As good as gold and almost as hard to find. I think I can speak for many, and listees please correct me if I'm wrong, but a reissue would be more than welcome. Todd --- NodalPoint@aol.com wrote: > > Who makes the Fokker DVII in 1/48? > > DML right? But are they still producing them? I > thought I heard someone say > they don't sell that kit anymore. > > Any opinions on who's DVII kit is best and where I > may order from. > > Thanks, > Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:14:12 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: 1/48 DVII Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7101748A67@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Todd says: > > DML made the D.VII and it was by far the best one > done. As for where you can get one, all I can say is > good luck!! If you find a copy, buy it!!! As good as > gold and almost as hard to find. I think I can speak > for many, and listees please correct me if I'm wrong, > but a reissue would be more than welcome. ...and he's right, though it has its faults. IMHO the only changes which make a marked visible difference are 1. To make an enlarged rudder of the correct more rounded proportions - and even *that* is a matter of fractions of millimetres here and there. 2. Flatten the upper wing upper surface (there is also an issue of cross sectional shape here, but in 1/48 I find it hard to be bothered by it) You could fiddle with the fuselage depth a trifle, or the shape of the turtledeck but neither is obvious even when directly compared to photos. Also, the "fault" of having no visible frame structure beneath the fabric is only a fault if the prototype being modelled isn't tightly covered. Frankly I'd rather add that effect myself than be presented with a starving cow body instead of starving cow ribs. Heck - looks like a major list, but it isn't. Straighten the top wing and round out the rudder and anyone who can prove it isn't perfect has too much time on his hands. Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:16:23 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: 1/48 DVII Message-ID: <20010118051623.27487.qmail@web9008.mail.yahoo.com> I find it kind of strange that the D.VII hasn't been reissued since the other DML kits have been. It's sure to be a big seller if they did. I'd buy several and perhaps Barry at Rosemont would reissue the Atlee conversion parts if the kit were readily available again. It will probably be the kit that future D.VII's will be measured against for quite some time. Todd --- Shane Weier wrote: > Todd says: > > > > > DML made the D.VII and it was by far the best one > > done. As for where you can get one, all I can say > is > > good luck!! If you find a copy, buy it!!! As > good as > > gold and almost as hard to find. I think I can > speak > > for many, and listees please correct me if I'm > wrong, > > but a reissue would be more than welcome. > > ..and he's right, though it has its faults. > > IMHO the only changes which make a marked visible > difference are > > 1. To make an enlarged rudder of the correct more > rounded proportions - and > even *that* is a matter of fractions of millimetres > here and there. > 2. Flatten the upper wing upper surface (there is > also an issue of cross > sectional shape here, but in 1/48 I find it hard to > be bothered by it) > > You could fiddle with the fuselage depth a trifle, > or the shape of the > turtledeck but neither is obvious even when directly > compared to photos. > Also, the "fault" of having no visible frame > structure beneath the fabric is > only a fault if the prototype being modelled isn't > tightly covered. Frankly > I'd rather add that effect myself than be presented > with a starving cow body > instead of starving cow ribs. > > Heck - looks like a major list, but it isn't. > Straighten the top wing and > round out the rudder and anyone who can prove it > isn't perfect has too much > time on his hands. > > Shane > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > The information contained in this e-mail is > confidential and is > intended only for the use of the addressee(s). > If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, > distribution or > copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are > requested to > forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to > the > MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. > > e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au > phone: Australia 1800500646 > ********************************************************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:25:10 -0800 From: "Courtney Allen" To: Subject: Future Pegasus Releases Message-ID: <000f01c0810f$077d0420$a74c510c@worldnet.att.net> This info. may have been listed before, but I just received the following list of future kits from Pegasus. 1/72 SPAD XII Halberstadt D.II AIRCO DH5 Vickers Gun Bus Bristol F2b 1/48 Bristol M1C Phonix D-1 L.F.G. Roland D-VIb L.V.G. C.VI Courtney ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 01:19:18 -0600 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: 1/48 DVII Message-ID: <000701c0811e$f9f29300$05e479a5@com> Todd lamented: > I find it kind of strange that the D.VII hasn't been > reissued since the other DML kits have been Yes it has!!!! Have you not seen in the last few weeks where we were talking about the Hasegawa release of it a couple of years back? Mark my words, it WILL be re-released again, probably soon, and probably by DML or Hasegawa. Keep your eyes open! It may also be possible that Italeri might release it as they have done the DML FW-190D-9 and Ta-154 (they replaced the ghastly PE with injected parts). DB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:44:15 -0800 From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Giant Cookup Message-ID: <3A678DDF.8159BEC2@tac.com.au> "aa8." wrote: > > This could include large aircraft from all combatant countries and could > include such aircraft as H.P. 0/400, Vimy, DH10, Muromets, Staaken, Gotha's > etc. Hi andy, You know the old sayings 'great minds" or "fools seldom differ" cause I was thinking along the same lines ;-). Shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:00:24 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WW1 Group" Subject: If... - was Most Important A/C Message-ID: <003201c08137$ad5b4c80$04e8b094@sandyada> >I can't resist ( and don't beat me for my thoughts): If WWI really would >have ended in this way, an untalended post card copier from Austria may have >started a career as an Opera paint shop professional and there would have >been no need to free an russian agitator from his swiss exile. Ah, but on the downside, the insane King Edward the IXth of Great Britain would have been able to launch his joint Indian and African armies on the United States of the Pacific and President Presley would still have choked to death on the john on a sushi burger. (while under air attack from British Zeppelins - there; got it back OT) Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:33:55 +0100 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: WWI Subject: some roumors Message-ID: <3A66E2B3.F9B9F393@bg.am.lodz.pl> Hi, I have heard some news. I do not know it is for sure but Eduard has all DML OT forms including never released Camel. That models probably would be named Eduard-Imperial. Only it is question of time when we shall see Eduard Fokker D.VII and SPAD 13. First will be Camel. There will be also new manufacturer - KOKODEN - Korean part of Tamiya and it will be producing 1914-1935 1/48 airplanes. New century, new surprises -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:21:19 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: some roumors Message-ID: <3A66EDCD.BD8360E1@bellsouth.net> Witold Kozakiewicz wrote: > Hi, > I have heard some news. I do not know it is for sure but Eduard has all > DML OT forms including never released Camel. (snips). > New century, new surprises Happy happy joy joy..... E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:19:40 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: some roumors Message-ID: I suppose you mean DML OT forms in 1/48, Witold? /Neil > -----Original Message----- > From: Witold Kozakiewicz [mailto:witk@bg.am.lodz.pl] > Sent: den 18 januari 2001 13:41 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: some roumors > > > Hi, > I have heard some news. I do not know it is for sure but > Eduard has all > DML OT forms including never released Camel. That models > probably would > be named Eduard-Imperial. Only it is question of time when we > shall see > Eduard Fokker D.VII and SPAD 13. First will be Camel. > There will be also new manufacturer - KOKODEN - Korean part of Tamiya > and it will be producing 1914-1935 1/48 airplanes. > New century, new surprises > > -- > Witold Kozakiewicz > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:21:34 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Roden Gotha's Message-ID: <200101181322.FAA17460@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Squadron is taking advance orders on the Roden Gotha G.II/G.III for (I think) US$25.96. That means the "rest" of the world should have them for about US$20 or so. :-) Excellent. Blurb on the site says "complete cockpit" (yea, right, not for us anal types) and external bombs. So, I wonder how many we'll see at this years Nats? Matt Bittner ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2985 **********************