WWI Digest 2921 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Plastic under the tree? by Witold Kozakiewicz 2) Re: Rigging Size by "Alberto Casirati" 3) Re: Plastic under the tree? by "Lyle Lamboley" 4) Re: Rigging Size by fedders 5) RE: Rear fuselage frames was: 1/48 Hanriots re-released by "dfernet0" 6) RE: Snipe Finished by "dfernet0" 7) Re: Web site and Plastic under the Tree by "Richard Eaton" 8) briefly back..Squasta update by "Muth, Michael R" 9) Back soon for good by "Muth, Michael R" 10) Re: scratch wing issues solved by LEONARDPeterL@aol.com 11) RE: Back soon for good by "dfernet0" 12) RE: Plastic under the tree? by "dfernet0" 13) Chicken lips, plastic lips WAS: scratch wing issues solved by "dfernet0" 14) Re: Chicken lips, plastic lips WAS: scratch wing issues solved by "Michael Kendix" 15) Re: Mercedes Madness by "Edward Swaim" 16) Re: ICM's kits/ was: Plastic under the tree? by TomTheAeronut@aol.com 17) Re: Rear fuselage frames was: 1/48 Hanriots re-released by Morg17ms@aol.com 18) RE: ICM's kits/ was: Plastic under the tree? by "Ray Boorman" 19) RE: Rear fuselage frames was: 1/48 Hanriots re-released by "Ray Boorman" 20) RE: ICM's kits/ was: Plastic under the tree? by "Michael Kendix" 21) RE: Rigging Size by Brent Theobald 22) RE: scratch wing issues solved by Brent Theobald 23) Re: How Limited Are Limited Edition Kits? by Todd Hayes 24) RE: Rear fuselage frames was: 1/48 Hanriots re-released by Todd Hayes 25) Re: How Limited Are Limited Edition Kits? by "Michael Kendix" 26) RE: Mercedes Madness by Brent Theobald 27) Re: What a great Xmas present!!- you forgot something by KarrArt@aol.com 28) Re: Season's greetings - traditions (and what's under the tree) by KarrArt@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 15:12:38 +0100 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Plastic under the tree? Message-ID: <3A48A756.8ED3BFD8@bg.am.lodz.pl> Hi, There were no plastic, but new OT book. Some kind of encyclopedia of planes of WWI. Drawings, pictures, short description of use and technical data of most impotrant French, British, Italian, Russian, Germany and A-H planes. Also some colour profiles. Yesterday night I read all introduction - superb. And just before X-mas i got package from my Australian friend - Osprey Nieuport Aces (trade for book about Polish AF in WWII French Camapain) GRBroman@aol.com napisał(a): > I also got an Arsenal warm up jersey. My two favorite teams? > Arsenal and whom ever is playing Man U ;) > Glen And Shane Weier: > Arsenal fan since age 3 And me. So we have little Gunners FanClub I was very upset after Liverpool match. -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:20:22 +0100 From: "Alberto Casirati" To: Subject: Re: Rigging Size Message-ID: <000f01c06f4f$7fa08660$2e18623e@s> FWIW, I prefer 0.004" dia. stainless steel wire (available from Small Parts, Inc., for example). According to Leo Opdycke, the usual rigging wires diameter in WW1 aircraft is consistent with such a dia. in 1/72nd scale. Alberto Casirati ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:27:31 -0500 From: "Lyle Lamboley" To: Subject: Re: Plastic under the tree? Message-ID: <004901c06f50$5f851d40$9cdfd73f@lylelamb> Hi, No plastic for me this time, but my best friend sent me a Guillow's Fokker D.VIII from his stash of kits in his mother's attic. I don't want to build it since it's pretty rare, but I will head over to Kinko's and make a few copies for scratch purposes. Gee, now I feel like I'm twelve again... Lyle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:34:47 -0600 (CST) From: fedders To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Rigging Size Message-ID: y On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, Rob & Sherry wrote: I have seen plans for a Fokker DVII and a Sopwith Pup. The rigging is generally 2-3 mm (full scale, of course). Scale in 1/72 would be between 0.001 and 0.002 inches! You probably don't wantthe rigging scale - it would be too small to look right. peter > > Could I have the list's opinion on the proper size rigging for 1/72 scale > models? I have read about .006". Is this the correct size for rigging and > control cables? > Thanks > Rob > P.S. One final Merry Christmas to all!!!!!! > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 12:37:23 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Rear fuselage frames was: 1/48 Hanriots re-released Message-ID: <051f01c06f51$be07f300$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Please count me in! There is many projects on my cupboard that will need this improvement. As an aside, please include lenghts of PE "stitches" for dressing fuselages. D. > If anyone wants to get in on this as a side project, I would be more > than willing to pay for these things. Think about all the models that > need this! > > > Matt Bittner > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 12:38:56 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Snipe Finished Message-ID: <054301c06f51$f57cba00$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Great piece of work, Steve! Just imagine a drunk mujik trying to climb in such a neat machine! Shocking! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven M.Perry To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:02 AM Subject: Snipe Finished > Just finished my Soviet Snipe. Photos at: > > http://smperry.home.mindspring.com/snipe.htm > > sp > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:48:38 -0600 From: "Richard Eaton" To: Subject: Re: Web site and Plastic under the Tree Message-ID: <008d01c06f53$c3632fc0$f049a218@austin.rr.com> Just back in town (running from ice storms) and took a peak. Great job on the site Dennis! Well done to tech support. The site loads like a charm. The shots of the W-20 are down right scary. Maybe I'll blow off the dust on my site some time soon........... No Plastic but a much appreciated gift certificate to King's Hobby under my tree! Regards, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Ugulano" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 5:30 PM Subject: Web site > Everyone, > > Tech Support and I have spent the weekend revising the web site to > make it load a little easier. The next major change will come the > sub-dividing the German page into smaller chunks. It's too big right now. > > Anyway, the Hansa Brandenberg W-20 have been revised with digital > shots. > > Dennis Ugulano > email: Uggies@compuserve.com > http://members.nbci.com/Uggies/dju.htm > Page Revised 12/22/00 > "Each modeler will rise to their own level of masochism." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:45:26 -0500 From: "Muth, Michael R" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: briefly back..Squasta update Message-ID: <1B9DE441E252D411AC7F0090274EC1BD27D6F1@EXCHANGE> Hi all. I am still working on getting my home email fixed. In the interim, I remembered a meeting of the Squasta in Williamsburg on my birthday, the 28th. Unfortunately, I ended up with Court hearings, so Sharon, E., et all, sorry I'll be missing you guys. Have some peanut soup for me. Mike Muth nb: Nieuport 17 (1/48) Nothing fancy, hunting horn on fuselage Albatros Dv STROPP in 1/72 Hard rigging this size! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:53:51 -0500 From: "Muth, Michael R" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Back soon for good Message-ID: <1B9DE441E252D411AC7F0090274EC1BD27D6F3@EXCHANGE> Advice from the "experten" is always welcome, of course. Should I be taking pictures of all this? Bucky Hey, what's this???? I'm away a mere two months and somebody already adopted my email name ;-))???!!! Anyway, 2 months off this list is two months too long. Gotta fix the home email. I wish I could say all the time was spent making models, but that would be a lie....wait a minute, I can still do that since it's not the New Year yet and my resolutions don't take effect until then....yeah, that's the ticket! Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:09:48 EST From: LEONARDPeterL@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: scratch wing issues solved Message-ID: In a message dated 26/12/00 14:52:32 GMT Standard Time, bucky@tokai.or.jp writes: << Should I be taking pictures of all this? >> Does a chicken have lips???? Pics please Peter L ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:16:31 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Back soon for good Message-ID: <060801c06f57$35631e20$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Mike wrote: >I wish I could say all the time was spent making models, but that > would be a lie....wait a minute, I can still do that since it's not the New > Year yet and my resolutions don't take effect until then.... Lawyers.... lawyers... D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:24:37 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Plastic under the tree? Message-ID: <065701c06f58$576adc00$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> None but the ones I bought for myself. Santa was very generous with me ;-) Besides I got my first wooden prop from Marty Digmayer from CSM. Excellent! I must if you want to enhance your models, I guess I'll order more on the future. Is there any book specialized on propellers apart from that datafile on british products? I got some good books -none OT- and some clothes wich I have to exchange D. nr: Edmund Hillary's autobiography (one of the new books) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:02:21 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Chicken lips, plastic lips WAS: scratch wing issues solved Message-ID: <079a01c06f5d$9cbf5380$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> In "Chicken Run" yes they have. And they sound like Mel Gibson too. D. OT content: cut some DH6 main parts from the styrene sheet last saturday. Easier than I tought, no injuries to the model nor to me. Now to sand that sucker! It's late for this model but there is any alternative to mark the parts edges apart from a fineliner pen? The ink smudges from the plastic and I can't see the use of having a neat line of white plastic to sand around the edges. A permanent marker would work but it will stain the styrene permanently (wich is no good, right?) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 1:15 PM Subject: Re: scratch wing issues solved > In a message dated 26/12/00 14:52:32 GMT Standard Time, bucky@tokai.or.jp > writes: > > << Should I be taking pictures of all this? >> > > Does a chicken have lips???? Pics please > > Peter L > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:27:32 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Chicken lips, plastic lips WAS: scratch wing issues solved Message-ID: >From: "dfernet0" > OT content: cut some DH6 main parts from the styrene sheet last > >saturday. Easier than I tought, no injuries to the model nor to me. >Now >to sand that sucker! It's late for this model but there is any >alternative >to mark the parts edges apart from a fineliner pen? The >ink smudges from >the plastic and I can't see the use of having a neat >line of white plastic >to sand around the edges. A permanent marker >would work but it will stain >the styrene permanently (wich is no >good, right?) Right, especially if you're going to paint it CDL. You'll end up having to sand off the black guide marks. You should be ably to do it without drawing lines unless it's a really poorly defined mold, though the DH-6 vac I own looks fairly decent. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:35:37 -0600 From: "Edward Swaim" To: Subject: Re: Mercedes Madness Message-ID: <003b01c06f62$ca6a0dc0$0101a8c0@hppav> I'm amazed that you actually have one of these engines. How in the world did you get it? Why wasn't it chopped up for scrap half a century ago? > P.S. If anyone has any questions as to what the hell I'm talking about or > any specifics, I'll be glad to explain any part of it in more detail. I'm > sure most guys are just hitting the delete button on this one anyway. Edward & Anna Swaim 36 Rosemont Drive Little Rock, Arkansas 72204 501-661-9879 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 12:52:51 EST From: TomTheAeronut@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ICM's kits/ was: Plastic under the tree? Message-ID: In a message dated 12/26/00 8:29:08 AM EST, mkendix@hotmail.com writes: << Tom Cleaver! Next time you're misbehaving on the list, you have to watch continual loops of this drivel for 12 hours. >> Now *that* is a threat worth keeping in mind! :-) TC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:12:59 EST From: Morg17ms@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Rear fuselage frames was: 1/48 Hanriots re-released Message-ID: <6c.64ffb26.277a39ab@aol.com> Yes, me too please! I've often thought that with the number of members interested, we (as a list group) could economically design and obtain our own PE and decal sheets, particularly for the small stuff that the commercial interests often ignore - such as logos, 'lift here' stencils etc. Even one sheet split between between a few listees could provide a lifetime's worth of such goodies. Thoughts?? Tom Morgan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:33:25 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: ICM's kits/ was: Plastic under the tree? Message-ID: Ok I admit I don't read every post on this list ;) However back in the spring the MAC EIV and ICM EIV came out. The MAC was more expensive and after a while the opinion was that the ICM was very nice and quite accurate, in fact the ICM model was being raved about and the MAC was to be avoided. Now forward to the past month, I have seen on the list posts stating the ICM EIV is as bad and inaccurate as the MAC? am I reading wrong or is there some confusion over which model is which or is it spotty quality?? Ok so before I get to confused, what happened. Either a model is good or bad. How has the ICM model gone from being the EIV to get - to being bad in just a few months. btw I don't have the EIV I do have some Russian later period models from ICM. Not Tamiya quality but easily build able. I had to watch 102 Dalmatians, its as bad as E said, but kids love it. I fell asleep for half the movie ;) Oh and what's Arsenal??? is that something you do when you sneeze??? Ray - Spurs supporter since childhood, when I lived midway between both teams and obviously had to make some important choices of good and bad taste ;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:39:42 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: Rear fuselage frames was: 1/48 Hanriots re-released Message-ID: With all the posts about homebrew PE frames whizzing around on the list. I thought the following might be usefull. In the Scrathbuilt book John Alcorn created detail sheets for his 1/24th DH9A and sent them to Fotocut for Photoreduction and etching. If this service is still available from Fotocut would this not be a solution to getting good quality PE. -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of Morg17ms@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Rear fuselage frames was: 1/48 Hanriots re-released Yes, me too please! I've often thought that with the number of members interested, we (as a list group) could economically design and obtain our own PE and decal sheets, particularly for the small stuff that the commercial interests often ignore - such as logos, 'lift here' stencils etc. Even one sheet split between between a few listees could provide a lifetime's worth of such goodies. Thoughts?? Tom Morgan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:49:31 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: ICM's kits/ was: Plastic under the tree? Message-ID: >From: "Ray Boorman" >Now forward to the past month, I have seen on the list posts stating >the >ICM EIV is as bad and inaccurate as the MAC? am I reading wrong >or is >there some confusion over which model is which or is it spotty >quality?? My personal view, accuracy aside, is that the ICM Fokker EIV has really over-stated ribs but otherwise isn't bad, especially for the price. The MAC Fokker E.IV didn't look that great in the box and was relatively expensive, so I didn't buy it. The ICM Pfalz E.IV, which I also bought, is of similar quality to the ICM Fokker E.IV in terms of molding etc. but apparently is quite inaccurate. The ICM Fokker E.IV is not terrible but is not as nice as some of the other ICM releases. >I had to watch 102 Dalmatians, its as bad as E said, but kids love >it. I >fell asleep for half the movie ;) Lucky you! My son won't let me fall asleep at the pictures. >Ray - Spurs supporter since childhood, Ditto - following my grandad who first saw them in 1920 when they beat Chelsea 4-0 at the Bridge. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 12:52:37 -0600 From: Brent Theobald To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Rigging Size Message-ID: <4B9386E83999D411997100508BAF206A79EBC6@stamail.telecom.sna.samsung.com> Howdy! I use .003 inch diameter fly fishing thread for 1/72 and .005 inch diameter for 1/48. I figure 1/1 rigging was around .25 inch in diameter. Here's how my thread math's out: .003 x 72 = .216. That makes my rigging slightly underscale, but I rather err on the side of smaller than larger. .005 x 48 = .24. That's close enough for me. I paint it with Testors Model Master Dark Anodonic Grey metalizer paint before rigging. This gives it a darkish mettalic sheen. I like it. Good luck and Happy Holidays! Brent PS: Is this answer on the website somewhere? This question pops up a lot. -----Original Message----- From: Rob & Sherry [mailto:rweiner@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 12:11 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Rigging Size Could I have the list's opinion on the proper size rigging for 1/72 scale models? I have read about .006". Is this the correct size for rigging and control cables? Thanks Rob P.S. One final Merry Christmas to all!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 12:53:31 -0600 From: Brent Theobald To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: scratch wing issues solved Message-ID: <4B9386E83999D411997100508BAF206A79EBC7@stamail.telecom.sna.samsung.com> Howdy! In a word... YES! -----Original Message----- [snippage] Should I be taking pictures of all this? Bucky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:16:20 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: How Limited Are Limited Edition Kits? Message-ID: <20001226191620.9033.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tom, No sneer intended. Even though OT is my preferred subject matter, I still love some of the ot subjects. My list of kit wants includes a 1:48 Me262, FW D9, and as many WW2 Russian a/c as possible. Yaks are beautiful a/c, as are many of the other Russian a/c. I have the Accurate Miniatures Yak and IL kits and the quality is outstanding. I have Spitfires, Hurricanes, Focke-Wulfs, and Messerschmitts among my kits. What I meant with the Silver Cloud series is that Chris Gannon will probably not include OT subjects because they're already covered in the Blue Max and Pegasus lines. Pegasus does include some ot a/c. Have you seen the Gavia Po-2 kits or the MPM Tu-2? How are they? Todd --- TomTheAeronut@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/25/00 10:14:10 PM EST, > thayes_52601@yahoo.com writes: > > << > I'll only buy the "Silver Cloud" kits that are 1:48 > and OT, but I doubt he'll do any WW1 in that scale > outside the Blue Max line. I'd almost bet that > they'll all be post-WW1 and WW2 in mixed scales. > > Todd >> > > They are 1/48, WW2 and post-war pre-jet. Blue Max > is OT 1/48, Pegasus is > 1/72 OT. > > I think the bunch of you should take the sneer out > of your tones when an OT > manufacturer does an ot release. The Eduard P-39 > series is selling like > gangbusters (and very deservedly), and its success > will allow the Nieuport > 11, Camels, S.E.5s, etc., to see the light of day. > Airplane modelers are a > small minority of modelers (car modelers reign > supreme), and cuckoo-birds who > build things with more than one wing that require > 100" of wire to rig are an > even smaller minority. No disrespect - I'm one too, > remember? - but the > entire fraternity world-wide of people who model > biplanes (and I include > pre-1939 on that) probably isn't much more than the > run of a BM limited-run > kit (i.e., 1,500). > > Be thankful they don't just drop the WW1 line for > the financial bust it > really is. The fact they don't is proof that model > companies are run by > modelers, who make decisions accountants would never > allow. I have it on > very good authority that Tamiya was ready to release > the Swordfish three > years earlier, and that the time was spent arguing > with the bean-counters and > the marketing people, until Mr. Tamiya said "We're > making it - I like it." > It's a similar fight that we who try to make movies > that aren't vehicles for > selling toys at McDonald's know only too well. And > the bean-counters at > Tamiya are already calling the Swordfish a > "non-recurring phenomenon," a term > that has been used in Hollywood for thirty years I > know of to explain any > movie that becomes a hit that doesn't have a "II" or > "III" behind it or isn't > made from a comic book or a TV show. > > Tom Cleaver __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:22:47 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Rear fuselage frames was: 1/48 Hanriots re-released Message-ID: <20001226192247.20124.qmail@web9009.mail.yahoo.com> Ray, Definitely Fotocut would be an excellent solution to the problem. Top grade p.e. Another improvement in most rotary engined kits would be the use of vac formed cowlings for scale effect. Todd --- Ray Boorman wrote: > With all the posts about homebrew PE frames whizzing > around on the list. I > thought the following might be usefull. > In the Scrathbuilt book John Alcorn created detail > sheets for his 1/24th > DH9A and sent them to Fotocut for Photoreduction and > etching. If this > service is still available from Fotocut would this > not be a solution to > getting good quality PE. > > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of > Morg17ms@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 10:18 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Rear fuselage frames was: 1/48 Hanriots > re-released > > > Yes, me too please! > I've often thought that with the number of members > interested, we (as a list > group) could economically design and obtain our own > PE and decal sheets, > particularly for the small stuff that the commercial > interests often > ignore - > such as logos, 'lift here' stencils etc. Even one > sheet split between > between a few listees could provide a lifetime's > worth of such goodies. > Thoughts?? > > Tom Morgan > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:25:52 From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: How Limited Are Limited Edition Kits? Message-ID: >From: Todd Hayes >..., I still love some of the ot subjects. >My list of kit wants includes a 1:48 Me[CENSORED!],... Aagh! This sort of language is simply not acceptable. As penance, go and say 3 Hail Mary's, build 3 Hit Kits, and watch 102 Dalmations 3 times. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:28:44 -0600 From: Brent Theobald To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Mercedes Madness Message-ID: <4B9386E83999D411997100508BAF206A79EBC8@stamail.telecom.sna.samsung.com> Howdy Dave, Very interesting post. I would offer a few observations and a theory or two. First, since the internal combustion engine was a relatively new device engineers didn't really know what was going on inside the engine all the time. I deduce this by some of the wierd cam designs I have seen from early automotive engines. These cams were cut without understanding of lift versus duration. They were cut more with a "try it and see" approach. Second, since the engineers were inexperienced with a lot of the problems involved they may have attempted to fix one problem without understanding its effect on the rest of the system. Here's my theory. The engineers tried to add a little oil resivoir for each bearing. One that would be used in a sudden RPM increase. Perhaps the engineers didn't know the oil pressure would fall so dramatically? Here's my other theory: What if the engineers had a few mechanics using "artistic license" out in the shop? I've had a few technicians try to "help" me in the past with disasterous results. I can imagine a mechanic, thinking he knows better, starting to modify engines without discussing it. I agree with your opinion of the galling of the number one bearing being caused by the low oil pressure. If it was fathest from the pump all the other cylinders would suck up the oil before it arrived to number one. Interesting post, Brent -----Original Message----- From: Dave Watts [mailto:davew@wattstrainshop.com] Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 5:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Mercedes Madness I hope everyone had a merry Christmas. This question may seem a bit beyond the resources of most, but possibly someone knows of an old motor guru that is able to "solve this riddle". I recently picked up a friend's Mercedes D.IIIa, for rebuilding/overhaul. The motor is completely original with all matching parts, (other than the carb). Upon inspection of the main bearing, I first thought someone had ruined the bearing with some strange idea, but upon inspection of my old original main bearing and the connecting rod bearings, I concluded this "damage" was actually an intended "modification" by Mercedes. The "modification" I refer to is a widening of the bearings on the sides. Before I go into detail, first let me clarify the standard D.IIIa design. The D.IIIa crankcase is split or divided horizontally into a top and bottom half cover, with each cover containing seven "half" bearing shells to support the crankshaft. That way when you put the two halves together with the crankshaft in the middle, you have the basic crankcase assembled. The design of the main bearings is; two bronze half shells with a babbitt lining. The main bearings are feed oil through the center of the bottom bearing shell. The bearing shells or halves have 45% beveled "pockets" along each side of the bearing shell half. Where the two halves come together it forms a large oil pocket. The important thing about these oil pockets is they do not extend the length of the entire bearing. Say, for example, the bearing is two and a half inches long, the side pocket would be two inches long centered on the side of the bearing. This is normal standard practice for bearings of the period. Today, they did away with these "pockets" and they have the inside of the bearings, a perfect circular surface. Now for the strange "modification". For some good reason, our friends at Mercedes decided to add a special "touch" to the bearings. As you recall, we have the side "pockets". They come down the side of the interior bearing half shell surface about 1/8th of an inch, and do not extend the length of the bearing, so as to form a "pocket". Well, after all of this was done a workman would come back, and hand scrape all of the bearing halves wider. By this I mean, on the sides where the "pockets" extend about an 1/8th inch down, the workman would scrape down about 3/8ths of an inch down on the entire bearing sides at about a 70% angle, right over and including the oil "pockets". Normally, this would be the opposite of what you would want to do with a motor, because you are now giving the oil pressure an easy way to escape from the main bearings and the crankshaft. In principle, you would be lowering the oil pressure to the crankshaft, but you may get more volume of oil to pass through the bearings. The connecting rods have this same widening of the bearings. To further explain the oil system, there is an oil pump, with no pressure relief valve. Each main bearing is fed oil by pipes coming from the oil pump. The oil goes into the main bearing and the main crankshaft journal fills up with oil, and there is a passage going from the main crankshaft journal to the connecting rod journal on the crankshaft. So each main feeds a corresponding con-rod. The oil than passes up a tube on the con-rod to the piston wrist pin, and passes out into the crankcase sump and back to the oil pump. I do not know of any good reason for doing this widening of the bearings, but Mercedes did. I know this is way out there, but I would appreciate any input. My only guess was it had to possibly do with oil viscosity during the winter months, or at altitude, and it allowed easier movement of the oil so the pump wouldn't be over stressed. By the way, all but one of the bearings in my friend's motor appear okay, the number two top half bearing shell is scorched, and the babbitt began to blister. This is exactly what I would guess would happen from the widening of the bearings, the top half of the main bearings would get very little pressure. Especially the front bearings since the oil pump supplies the bearings from the back forward, and the number one bearing may get the least pressure. Thanks for any assistance, Dave Watts ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:35:56 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: What a great Xmas present!!- you forgot something Message-ID: <6d.d4e1e18.277a4d1c@aol.com> In a message dated 12/25/00 11:34:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, Ray_Boorman@telus.net writes: << To keep this OT. I didn't get any plastic but SWMBO did read my list and I got both Scratchbuilt (which I knew I was getting) and Master Scratchbuilders - which I didn't. Darn theirs enough inspiration in these books to get past any AMS blocks, including two splendid OT bombers, now I wonder who built them RK;) >> Blushing prettily............. I guess it's as good a time as any to give a rundown of my holiday loot- no plastic for what must be the first time in 35 years- BUT- Santa dropped off a copy of the new Datafile special on the DH-4. This is going to be indespensible for any project revolving around this ol' work horse. Next on the list- everybody in the family shoved gift certs for Barnes and Noble books in my sweaty but nimble little hands..........oh- and "East West" by the Butterfield Blues Band on CD to replace my ancient vinyl copy (this old thing first came out in 65!) Oh yeah- before I forget- I also got a set of felt ( the type of fabric- I didn't mean they'de been rudely fondled or anything)red and green reindeer antlers (true! and I look really good wearing them!) RK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:36:03 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Season's greetings - traditions (and what's under the tree) Message-ID: <80.4c74120.277a4d23@aol.com> In a message dated 12/24/00 9:51:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, sdw@qld.mim.com.au writes: << Anyway, one last Merry Christmas to you all - my sixth with the list IIRC, and at every one I thank Santa for bringing me your friendship. Shane >> A really great Christmas here in California. Shorts, T shirts and no shoes on the back porch till a couple of hours past sunset when it started to cool down a little.....amusing oursleves shining laser pointers at ice cubes we'd tossed into the pool- weird, eerie glowing blood-filled blister-looking things they were....my brother-in-law with his new video camera- he's one of the few people who knows how not to be annoying with one of these things at a family gathering...bloating on home made ginger snaps...everybody leaves in a good mood, leaving me to lust at my new LoTR Galadriel action figure (guaranteed at least 6 points of articulation!) This helped me to forget the presence of herrings at dinner- two kinds- one from North Hell and one from South Hell....(marry a Scandanavian, learn to co-exist with herring....somehow) RK obigatory on-topic content: the next painting WILL be something from our era. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2921 **********************