WWI Digest 2880 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: prop logos by Todd Hayes 2) Re: Hermann Goering by Todd Hayes 3) Re: The 'Formally Svelt' Herman's D-VII, was;PD Decals - we shall by "Limon3" 4) Re: Mail? by Lee Mensinger 5) Re: ot forays (was Re: wing decals) by Todd Hayes 6) Re: ot forays (was Re: wing decals) by Todd Hayes 7) Re: prop logos by Lee Mensinger 8) Re: Yes it's ot - by huggins1@swbell.net (John Huggins) 9) An Interesting Product by Todd Hayes 10) RE: PD Decals - now Jasta 34b aircraft. by "Ray Boorman" 11) Re: ot forays - "Shooting War" by TomTheAeronut@aol.com 12) Re: PD Decals - now Jasta 34b aircraft. by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= 13) Re: ot forays - "Shooting War" by "DAVID BURKE" 14) Reading and inspiration for more OT Aircraft. by "Ray Boorman" 15) RE: PD Decals - now Jasta 34b aircraft. by "Ray Boorman" 16) RE: Albatros Axle attachment ? by "Tomasz Gronczewski" 17) Hanriot 'Butterfly' scheme by "Tomasz Gronczewski" 18) RE: Hanriot 'Butterfly' scheme by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= 19) Re: Hermann Goering by "John & Allison Cyganowski" 20) RE: Hanriot 'Butterfly' scheme by Crawford Neil 21) Re: prop logos by Lee Mensinger ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:03:35 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: prop logos Message-ID: <20001208050335.3497.qmail@web9008.mail.yahoo.com> Where did you get the info on the Nie.28 props? According to my Digmayer catalog, the Nie.28 used the Ratmanoff primarily. TH --- Lee Mensinger wrote: > I checked sith the Boss" at Vintage Aviation and he > does not, at present, have > a Ratmanoff picture on hand but we are still > looking.. With seventeen drawers > of stuff in filing cabinets it takes a minute or > two. I sent what I had on the > HD. May find a something by and by but not this > week. > > Lee M. > > David Calhoun wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > > Which Nieuport prop logo do you have? I'm still > in need of the Ratmanoff > > for my N.17. Lee M. sent me an excellent > Levesseur (sic) logo from a > > Nieuport 28, but this is not correct for the N.17. > > Please e-mail me a scan off list if you have the > Ratmanoff logo. > > Thanks, > > Dave Calhoun > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Fletcher" > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 6:14 AM > > Subject: Re: prop logos > > > > > I have collected from various sources the > following logos (with varying > > > levels of quality) if any are of use > > > > > > Beardmore > > > Morane Saulnier (2) > > > Nieuport > > > Voisin > > > Dux > > > Russo-Baltic Wagon Works (Sikorsky) > > > Russian Ski logo > > > Pfalz > > > SSW > > > Fokker > > > Elettro Ferroviarie(Italian blt Nieuports) > > > Darraq > > > Gnome > > > Hispano-Suiza > > > Salmson (2) > > > > > > dfernet0 wrote: > > > > > > > > Mike! > > > > Excellent idea. May I suggest a few more? > > > > Pfalz logo decals > > > > AVRO logo decals > > > > Sopwith logo decals > > > > Fokker logo decals > > > > Albatros logo decals > > > > > > > > The decals from Americals sometimes have these > images, but I always > > displace > > > > them or ruin the smaller items. A full sheet > of logos will be great! > > > > Regards > > > > D. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Mike Franklin > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 7:54 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Prop logos > > > > > > > > > The propellers that I have documented and > completed the artwork are: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Garuda from the NASM Albatross Book > > > > > 2. Nieuport 28 Helice Levasseur Brevete > S.D.G.D. thanks to Lee > > Mensinger > > > > > 3. LVG Niendorf Propellerwerke Luckenwalde > thanks to Steve Cox > > > > > > > > > > I have not yet combed my Datafiles, Profiles > or WW One Aero, but plan > > to > > > > do > > > > > so. If anyone has any others, please > contact me for details on what > > kind > > > > of > > > > > scan I would need. > > > > > > > > > > I am re-drawing all the art in Corel 8, > vector based images for > > maximum > > > > > detail and clarity. > > > > > > > > > > Mike Franklin > > > > > Bellingham, WA USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:11:44 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Hermann Goering Message-ID: <20001208051144.63339.qmail@web9009.mail.yahoo.com> I don't know exactly why Goering became what he did, but there must have been something of the future NAZI in him. Unless there's mental illness involved, people just don't turn into monsters for no apparent reason. As far as his pre-Nazi anti-semitism goes, he was very much in line with views common at the time. TH --- Michael Kendix wrote: > >From: "Lance Krieg" > > >I'm surprised that he elicits such a knee-jerk > reaction from so many > > >people... > > I am not surprised. Goering is known most for his > leading role in the Nazi > Party and for his complicity in their "activities". > > >I would guess that the Hermann Goering of 1918 was > a very different >man > >from what he became. > > Maybe. Did something happen to change his > personality? > > >Not a Goering fan, personally, but he was no > cartoon character. > > Absolutely, Goering was quite real. > > Michael > _____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:27:54 -0800 From: "Limon3" To: Subject: Re: The 'Formally Svelt' Herman's D-VII, was;PD Decals - we shall Message-ID: <012901c060d7$9e2601e0$b2f7303f@f4w2s5> Shane, I couldn't agree more, and will use your formulae on my next all white model. Truly ROTFLMAO. Regards Gabe -----Original Message----- From: Shane Weier To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, December 07, 2000 8:52 PM Subject: RE: The 'Formally Svelt' Herman's D-VII, was;PD Decals - we shall >Gabe, > >> Not so fast there, it may just have been an off-white which showed up >> lighter due to the orthochromagnon film then in use :-} >> > >I doubt it Gabe. It has long been known that white dope photographed with >orthochromagnon film will invariably produce a polka dot pattern with the >dot size precisly 282mm diameter and the distribution logarithmic both >port-starboard and fore-aft. Also (invariably) the dots will appear darker >and the background lighter according to an inverse square of the actual >amount of light falling on the white dope. > >Incidentally, all orthochromagnon film used during WW1 was coated on 3.6mm >thick slate quarried from a cave in southern France, and all samples now >held are of Martinsyde F.100 which have faded to such a degree as to show no >better than stick figures and the animal itself > >Regards > >Shane > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >********************************************************************** >The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is >intended only for the use of the addressee(s). >If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or >copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to >forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the >MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. > >e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au >phone: Australia 1800500646 >********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 23:26:33 -0600 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Mail? Message-ID: <3A307109.2DEB3ACB@x25.net> Glad to hear that the note arrived. I think you will enjoy the text I sent. Lee Sharon Henderson wrote: > Hi Lee! > > Yes, I did -- it arrived today. I've been having the worst luck with mail lately -- seeing messages days after they were sent, seeing replies to messages before the original -- it's very odd!! > > I also got your note about markings on FvW's 109E today. Very strange the way mail servers work! If this address should go belly-up on me, you can find me at: meli@scadian.net. > > More later; I'm in the middle of a rousing good sermon. :-) But I didn't want you to worry. > > Cheers, > Sharon > > >Did you get my note thst the package was on the way? > > > >Lee > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Powered by Microsith Lookout - http://www.microsith.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:23:33 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot forays (was Re: wing decals) Message-ID: <20001208052333.64428.qmail@web9009.mail.yahoo.com> Tom, I'm not sure if it's true, but I heard that he was Jewish. One of many in the Hogan's Heroes cast. Robert Clary (LeBeau), for example, spent time in a death camp when he was a boy. TH --- TomTheAeronut@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/7/00 10:40:26 PM EST, > mkendix@hotmail.com writes: > > << You mean Werner Klemper(sp?) the actor? I saw > him on stage once in > "Cabaret". Excellent show. > >> > > Actually Klemperer. Brother of the late director of > the Austrian state > symphony, member of a family associated with the > arts in Austria for the past > 200 years at least. Maybe it does run in the blood? > > TC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:26:49 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot forays (was Re: wing decals) Message-ID: <20001208052649.64788.qmail@web9009.mail.yahoo.com> John Banner is an interesting person too. I believe he actually served in the Wehrmacht in WW2. TH --- DAVID BURKE wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Kendix" > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 9:43 PM > Subject: Re: ot forays (was Re: wing decals) > > > > >From: Ernest Thomas > > >Bob Pearson wrote: > > > > > > > PPPS Colonel Klink died today > > > > > >Damn! I loved that show. Crazy premise for a > sit-com. > > >E. > > > > You mean Werner Klemper(sp?) the actor? I saw him > on stage once in > > "Cabaret". Excellent show. > > > > Michael > > > > Is John Banner (Schultz!) dead too? > > Jeez, a fond memory of mine is when my Father and I > (he was recently > divorced and raising me by himself) used to watch > the show every evening. I > was about 7 or 8 and when he'd screw up, I'd go: > 'Schultz!' and he'd go > 'Jawhohl, Herr Commandant'. He did a good Schultz. > > > DB > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 00:01:35 -0600 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu, Todd Hayes , lemen@x25.net Subject: Re: prop logos Message-ID: <3A30793F.49A2CA94@x25.net> It is from a photograph of the propellor on a Nieuport 28C which I took during the past year. They used more than one type as well. The aircraft was restored completely in Texas, a short distance from my home, as that used by Quentin Roosevelt and is now in the Champlin Air Museum in Mesa, AZ where it was sent in mid-summer. Lee M. Todd Hayes wrote: > Where did you get the info on the Nie.28 props? > According to my Digmayer catalog, the Nie.28 used the > Ratmanoff primarily. > > TH > > --- Lee Mensinger wrote: > > I checked sith the Boss" at Vintage Aviation and he > > does not, at present, have > > a Ratmanoff picture on hand but we are still > > looking.. With seventeen drawers > > of stuff in filing cabinets it takes a minute or > > two. I sent what I had on the > > HD. May find a something by and by but not this > > week. > > > > Lee M. > > > > David Calhoun wrote: > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > Which Nieuport prop logo do you have? I'm still > > in need of the Ratmanoff > > > for my N.17. Lee M. sent me an excellent > > Levesseur (sic) logo from a > > > Nieuport 28, but this is not correct for the N.17. > > > Please e-mail me a scan off list if you have the > > Ratmanoff logo. > > > Thanks, > > > Dave Calhoun > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mike Fletcher" > > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 6:14 AM > > > Subject: Re: prop logos > > > > > > > I have collected from various sources the > > following logos (with varying > > > > levels of quality) if any are of use > > > > > > > > Beardmore > > > > Morane Saulnier (2) > > > > Nieuport > > > > Voisin > > > > Dux > > > > Russo-Baltic Wagon Works (Sikorsky) > > > > Russian Ski logo > > > > Pfalz > > > > SSW > > > > Fokker > > > > Elettro Ferroviarie(Italian blt Nieuports) > > > > Darraq > > > > Gnome > > > > Hispano-Suiza > > > > Salmson (2) > > > > > > > > dfernet0 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mike! > > > > > Excellent idea. May I suggest a few more? > > > > > Pfalz logo decals > > > > > AVRO logo decals > > > > > Sopwith logo decals > > > > > Fokker logo decals > > > > > Albatros logo decals > > > > > > > > > > The decals from Americals sometimes have these > > images, but I always > > > displace > > > > > them or ruin the smaller items. A full sheet > > of logos will be great! > > > > > Regards > > > > > D. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Mike Franklin > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 7:54 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: Prop logos > > > > > > > > > > > The propellers that I have documented and > > completed the artwork are: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Garuda from the NASM Albatross Book > > > > > > 2. Nieuport 28 Helice Levasseur Brevete > > S.D.G.D. thanks to Lee > > > Mensinger > > > > > > 3. LVG Niendorf Propellerwerke Luckenwalde > > thanks to Steve Cox > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not yet combed my Datafiles, Profiles > > or WW One Aero, but plan > > > to > > > > > do > > > > > > so. If anyone has any others, please > > contact me for details on what > > > kind > > > > > of > > > > > > scan I would need. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am re-drawing all the art in Corel 8, > > vector based images for > > > maximum > > > > > > detail and clarity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Franklin > > > > > > Bellingham, WA USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 00:03:42 -0600 From: huggins1@swbell.net (John Huggins) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Yes it's ot - Message-ID: >snip > To all of the vets of that War, as well as the Great War preceeding it, >I lift my glass. Tyranny shall always be vanquished; yet the price shall >always be dear. And it's up to all of us to spot the trouble before it gets >out of hand. > > Here's to the veterans. > > Here's to the fallen. > > Here's to not having to do it again. David, Thank you. John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 22:08:47 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: An Interesting Product Message-ID: <20001208060847.82913.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Here's a product that may be of interest to others on the list. M. Digmayer also does wooden gunrings for German a/c. As soon as I send off payment to CSM, I'll have one for a Halberstadt CL.II. Should be interesting. Custom order only. TH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 22:44:20 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: PD Decals - now Jasta 34b aircraft. Message-ID: Thanks Gabe, Dale, Volker and others. Especially Bob Pearson who has threatend to take his CD back if I dont darn well check it before asking my dumb questions, sheesh you and Matt Bittner should have a chant "check the site"-"check the cd" ;) My personal Albatros cookup project looks like its going to grow into 4 Jasta 34b aircraft. Greims Jasta 34b Albatros will now be joined by his Fokker DR1 and DVII. Since I dont think Greim flew a Pfalz, so I'll just build the Jasta 34b Pfalz flown by Rudolf Stark. Who needs a another cookup I figure that will be my next years worth of output. If anyone tells me Greim flew a DVIII or Siemens I will spit.... Anyone know where I can find a Rumpler D1? The great thing about this mini project I'm thinking about, is that every single one of these 1/72 aircraft will have been manufactured in the last year. We truly are in a golden age;) Regards Ray ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 02:15:20 EST From: TomTheAeronut@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot forays - "Shooting War" Message-ID: <58.466fb8f.2761e488@aol.com> There were three shots in that show that left me with a feeling that perhaps we aren't the planet's cancer: 1. The Marine feeding the kitten under the tank at Tarawa: the Marines didn't bring cats to Tarawa, neither did the Japanese. But a Japanese Marine had the humanity to tame the cat and get it to trust people, and as a result of what he did, the cat came to the Marine. Hopefully, it lived. 2. The Sailor who made the kapok life jacket for his puppy at Normandy. Someone who knew things were likely to get bad, and tried to help someone who didn't have a clue what was coming. 3. The Marine on Okinawa feeding the orphan who was so scared his legs were shaking. Why did those shots have any meaning? Why did they make me think we aren't the worst thing that ever happened to planet Earth? Because in the midst of crap, those people responded like the kind of people I'd invite into my home for dinner. The kind of people who would make my home better for their presence. Every once in awhile, I remember we're "the bad weather animal": Jumped out of the trees into a 2-million year drought - talk about either morons or eternal optimists. Discovered the afterlife and art in the middle of an ice age. In the midst of terrible crap, we find it in ourselves that the first thought is to do the things that were in those pictures. It's moments like that you think God might not have been wrong creating humans. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 15:23:30 +0800 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= To: Subject: Re: PD Decals - now Jasta 34b aircraft. Message-ID: <006801c060e7$d8f7bc40$7f01010a@jaring.my> Ray asked: > If anyone tells me Greim flew a DVIII or Siemens I will spit.... Anyone know > where I can find a Rumpler D1? > Ray, merlin does/did one. not one of their (anyhow few) good efforts, but at least a good basis for that complex, difficult to build from scratch fuselage. If your usual source can't supply you with this Merlin, ask Tony James or Detlev Schorsch - both seem to still hold a fair stock of most Merlins. BTW, a photo of Greims Ru D I is in the WS Mini Datafile. IIRC, this aircraft was used for some mock dogfights (with Udet?) in Munich after the war. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 01:31:20 -0600 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: ot forays - "Shooting War" Message-ID: <007001c060e8$dd5b4800$828faec7@com> > It's moments like that you think God might not have been wrong creating > humans. > > Tom Cleaver ...And of course, the Christmas Armistice of 1914, on the Western Front. One day where some folks proved that even in the midst of pure insanity, foks can sometimes amaze the world with a shred of decency and civility. Almost makes it worth having come down out of the trees. DB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 23:31:17 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: "wwi" Subject: Reading and inspiration for more OT Aircraft. Message-ID: Is it me or does the more you learn about the aircraft and pilots of the wwi period inspire more models to build. I just listed off the top of my head all the aircraft I want to build in the next little while, or my model pipedreams for the next 5 years. The problem with the list is I havent even scratched the surface. On a different day and after looking through other more of my books I could come up with lots more lists. Sheesh I hope someone cures the aging process;) Heres my list its just a short list. Jasta 34b DVII DR1 and Pfalz to add to the Alabtros DV two Avro 504k's one the a certain white one that terrorised the training squadron co. Barkers Camel and Snipe Swallow, Comic and taper wing Camel The "Battleaxes Battle Plane" DH5 Hawkers DH2 and Bristol Scout Felixstowe Barkers Bristol Fighter Macchi M5 Sopwith Batboat Sopwith Folder Sopwith Dolphin Etrich Taube Linke-Crawfords DIII Hansa Brandenburgs W20-W12, W18 and W29 Sopwith Schneider/Rainbow - Yes I know I'll have to work out how to scratchbuild this one. Dallas's Sopwith Triplane SE5 and a 56 Squadron SE5a Gotha GII, AEG GIV Vickers Vimy and the old faithfull HP 0/400 I'm not even going near Nieuports, though a two seater would be nice. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 23:42:15 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: PD Decals - now Jasta 34b aircraft. Message-ID: Thanks Volker, yes it was with Udet. Greim flew a Fokker DVII against Udets DVIII in mock combat air displays just after wwi, he also flew a Rumpler D1 with his twin bands on the fuselage and Rumpler emblazoned on the fuselage. I think the mini data file is incorrect with its captions . It shows Schliech in Rumpler D289 this could be true, but then below there is another photo of an D1 with Rumpler written on the fuselage with those two dark bands. The caption says Schliech in another Rumpler, with no real proof I think this is really Robert Greim's Rumpler. Ray -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of Volker Häusler Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 11:27 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: PD Decals - now Jasta 34b aircraft. Ray asked: > If anyone tells me Greim flew a DVIII or Siemens I will spit.... Anyone know > where I can find a Rumpler D1? > Ray, merlin does/did one. not one of their (anyhow few) good efforts, but at least a good basis for that complex, difficult to build from scratch fuselage. If your usual source can't supply you with this Merlin, ask Tony James or Detlev Schorsch - both seem to still hold a fair stock of most Merlins. BTW, a photo of Greims Ru D I is in the WS Mini Datafile. IIRC, this aircraft was used for some mock dogfights (with Udet?) in Munich after the war. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 11:11:40 +0100 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: RE: Albatros Axle attachment ? Message-ID: Jon, Sorry for such late reply (hope you haven't already finished the kit :o))). I have something what may be useful in order to understand better German "know how" of the era. I have uploaded some photos of preserved Roland D.VIb at my site. See: http://www.tmg.obywatel.pl/references.htm Although it is not any Albatros, but its undercarriage is very similar to that attached to Albie. HTH Tomasz PS. The site is located in Poland and the best transfer rate should be achieved between GMT 1:00am and GMT 5:00am ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 11:11:38 +0100 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: Hanriot 'Butterfly' scheme Message-ID: Hi all, As long as my first Hanriot is ready and second is drying before shot of Future, I am now proceeding with my third Hd scout. The latter will be done as Belgian Coppens' plane. AFAIK Belgian Hanriots carry typical French five color scheme, misinterpreted by some sources as green/beige/gray/brown/black scheme. I have got Eduard instruction with a camouflage pattern, but I can't figure out which shade of gray should be interpreted as certain French color. Thus I have four questions: - can anybody provide me with color pictures from sides and from above revealing Hanriot 5 color pattern? - did the starboard of the fuselage carry exactly mirror of the pattern of the port board as kit suggests? - I have read Shane's interpretation of French colors and have compared them to Bob's profiles. Bob's tones are more olive and warmer. Who was closer to the real thing. Any clue? - has anybody any photo of Coppens' Hanriot No.17 with modified .045 cal. anti-balloon Vickers gun? TIA Tomasz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 00:22:44 +0700 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Hanriot 'Butterfly' scheme Message-ID: Tomasz, I can´t directly answer your questions: "- can anybody provide me with color pictures from sides and from above revealing Hanriot 5 color pattern? - did the starboard of the fuselage carry exactly mirror of the pattern of the port board as kit suggests? - I have read Shane's interpretation of French colors and have compared them to Bob's profiles. Bob's tones are more olive and warmer. Who was closer to the real thing. Any clue? - has anybody any photo of Coppens' Hanriot No.17 with modified .045 cal. anti-balloon Vickers gun?" But there´s a b&w profile of the Hanriot scheme in the WS Datafile. "Project Butterfly" (in US C&C vol 9-13) has some colour views of a number of a/c, but I did not see the Hanriot in there. However, very good reading also is the French magazine "Avions", no 69 (if you speak french). Nice thing on the Belgian Hanriots. According to that article, HD 1 no 6 (originally one of the few 2 gun HD´s) briefly tested the vickers 11 mm gun. No 17 was equipped with it all the time. No 6 described to be (overall) "bleu roi" ("royal blue"). Proven or only another long-standing myth, I wonder? Then there´s obviously no 24 with the blue/white stripes on the horizopntal tail surfaces (also on the back of the WS Datafile). Volker ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 07:19:01 -0500 From: "John & Allison Cyganowski" To: Subject: Re: Hermann Goering Message-ID: <008b01c06111$0d20b700$ca39183f@cyrixp166> Len Deighton does a thumbnail bio of Goering in the ot book "Fighter". He also gives a bio on another "prize winner" Ehard Milch. Jack Hunter wrote an article for OTF, Vol. 13, N0 3., Fall 1998. Jack served in counter-intelligence during WWII. He worked on/with a Nazi SS type. It was a profoundly disturbing experiance. "The Blue Max" series are drawn from his insights in to the Nazi psyche. Hunter's article & Deighton's book fighter do a very good job of sheading light on what kind of people these Nazis were and of how they got that way. Very insightful. Regards, John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 13:41:41 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Hanriot 'Butterfly' scheme Message-ID: If it's french 5-colour then it doesn't mirror the pattern on both sides, they are different. As to colours I don't think anyone can say for sure. The beige colour seems to vary most, I prefer the darker shades as for instance the FMP book does. It seems to make more sense with darker colours. I think ( or maybe I just didn't read it) that project Butterfly lacks information on paint-shades in the different factories. The different patterns are all there, but I think that different paint mixtures in different factories could well explain why they all seem to vary. To sum up, as usual Dicta Ira! /Neil -----Original Message----- From: Tomasz Gronczewski [mailto:gronczewski@interia.pl] Sent: den 8 december 2000 11:23 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Hanriot 'Butterfly' scheme >snip - did the starboard of the fuselage carry exactly mirror of the pattern of the port board as kit suggests? - I have read Shane's interpretation of French colors and have compared them to Bob's profiles. Bob's tones are more olive and warmer. Who was closer to the real thing. Any clue? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 07:15:02 -0600 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: prop logos Message-ID: <3A30DED6.AB96C69E@x25.net> I forgot to mention. The key word is primarily.... Leaves a lot of room for aircraft used in other countries. Lee M. Todd Hayes wrote: > Where did you get the info on the Nie.28 props? > According to my Digmayer catalog, the Nie.28 used the > Ratmanoff primarily. > > TH > > --- Lee Mensinger wrote: > > I checked sith the Boss" at Vintage Aviation and he > > does not, at present, have > > a Ratmanoff picture on hand but we are still > > looking.. With seventeen drawers > > of stuff in filing cabinets it takes a minute or > > two. I sent what I had on the > > HD. May find a something by and by but not this > > week. > > > > Lee M. > > > > David Calhoun wrote: > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > Which Nieuport prop logo do you have? I'm still > > in need of the Ratmanoff > > > for my N.17. Lee M. sent me an excellent > > Levesseur (sic) logo from a > > > Nieuport 28, but this is not correct for the N.17. > > > Please e-mail me a scan off list if you have the > > Ratmanoff logo. > > > Thanks, > > > Dave Calhoun > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mike Fletcher" > > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 6:14 AM > > > Subject: Re: prop logos > > > > > > > I have collected from various sources the > > following logos (with varying > > > > levels of quality) if any are of use > > > > > > > > Beardmore > > > > Morane Saulnier (2) > > > > Nieuport > > > > Voisin > > > > Dux > > > > Russo-Baltic Wagon Works (Sikorsky) > > > > Russian Ski logo > > > > Pfalz > > > > SSW > > > > Fokker > > > > Elettro Ferroviarie(Italian blt Nieuports) > > > > Darraq > > > > Gnome > > > > Hispano-Suiza > > > > Salmson (2) > > > > > > > > dfernet0 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mike! > > > > > Excellent idea. May I suggest a few more? > > > > > Pfalz logo decals > > > > > AVRO logo decals > > > > > Sopwith logo decals > > > > > Fokker logo decals > > > > > Albatros logo decals > > > > > > > > > > The decals from Americals sometimes have these > > images, but I always > > > displace > > > > > them or ruin the smaller items. A full sheet > > of logos will be great! > > > > > Regards > > > > > D. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Mike Franklin > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 7:54 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: Prop logos > > > > > > > > > > > The propellers that I have documented and > > completed the artwork are: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Garuda from the NASM Albatross Book > > > > > > 2. Nieuport 28 Helice Levasseur Brevete > > S.D.G.D. thanks to Lee > > > Mensinger > > > > > > 3. LVG Niendorf Propellerwerke Luckenwalde > > thanks to Steve Cox > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not yet combed my Datafiles, Profiles > > or WW One Aero, but plan > > > to > > > > > do > > > > > > so. If anyone has any others, please > > contact me for details on what > > > kind > > > > > of > > > > > > scan I would need. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am re-drawing all the art in Corel 8, > > vector based images for > > > maximum > > > > > > detail and clarity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Franklin > > > > > > Bellingham, WA USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2880 **********************