WWI Digest 2876 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: ot Southern Cross by "Ray Boorman" 2) Re: A photographer's dilemma (joke) by Ernest Thomas 3) Fat Boob!!! by JVT7532@aol.com 4) The 'Formally Svelt' Herman's D-VII, was;PD Decals - we shall see by Ernest Thomas 5) Re: Fat Boob!!! by Ernest Thomas 6) RE: A photographer's dilemma (joke) by Shane Weier 7) Re: PD Decals - we shall see by KarrArt@aol.com 8) Re: PD Decals - we shall see by "DAVID BURKE" 9) Re: PD Decals - we shall see by "DAVID BURKE" 10) RE: PD Decals - we shall see by "Ray Boorman" 11) RE: Richtofen's cowl by "Gaston Graf" 12) The Gontermann Story was RE: Richtofen's cowl by "Gaston Graf" 13) Air En Q was RE: ot Southern Cross by Crawford Neil 14) Re: PD Decals - we shall see by "Hans Trauner" 15) Fat Fokker by "Sandy Adam" 16) RE: Fat Fokker by "dfernet0" 17) Another Hermann trivia WAS: PD Decals - we shall see by "dfernet0" 18) OT content SAMI-nov, AerMo-Dec by Crawford Neil 19) Re: PD Decals - we shall see by "John & Allison Cyganowski" 20) Re: ot Southern Cross by "D Charles" 21) Re: ot Southern Cross, and Vimy by "D Charles" 22) wing decals by "dfernet0" 23) RE: Fat Fokker by "Gaston Graf" 24) =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_Von_Greim=B4s_a/c_-_was:_Goering/PD?= by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= 25) RE: Another Hermann trivia WAS: PD Decals - we shall see by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:50:01 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: ot Southern Cross Message-ID: Dave, I hate to dispute your post but Frog packaged the entire V bomber force and sold them as such. All in 1/96 scale there was a Vulcan, Valiant and Victor for about 10 Shillings each in the mid sixties. I built the Vulcan one christmas at about age 8. Looked great at the time no paint and lots of glue;)... Sheesh I just thought, that was my big Christmas Present of that year. lol roll forward to now and you should see the size and ahem cost of my sons Christmas list. Boy I wish I had kept some of the models I had as a kid. I had the Vimy and Southern Cross Notice I got the Vimy in there to keep this post near OT Ray -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of David C. Fletcher Ray Boorman wrote: The Britannia and the VC-10 (the one with the fibreoptic lighting...) were 1/96th. The V-bombers I know of in this scale were Lindberg. "Anyway the Southern Cross is most definately 1/72 scale..." And quite a nice kit. I built it back in the 'first issue' days. The remains are still in the parts box. In my case, movers have been far worse kit-wreckers than my wife... Dave Fletcher ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 22:59:39 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: A photographer's dilemma (joke) Message-ID: <3A2F193A.6A6B5C23@bellsouth.net> TomTheAeronut@aol.com wrote: > Which lens would you use? That's an easy one. ZOOM! And on an unrelated journalistic note, I spent half an hour on the phone today with a fact checker from Reader's Digest discussing an article I'm gonna be quoted in for the march issue. I really feel like I'm somebody now. E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:04:23 EST From: JVT7532@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Fat Boob!!! Message-ID: In a message dated 12/6/2000 11:46:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu writes: << reckon that I'll do Hermann 'Fatso' Goering's all-caucasian special. I wonder how much extra weight that fat boob incurred when he told his crew to paint the whole plane white. >> Now that's not very nice DB, would you face him at 5,000' in a S.P.A.D? You might have lost a few tail feathers if you said that to his face. Best regards, Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 23:10:23 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: The 'Formally Svelt' Herman's D-VII, was;PD Decals - we shall see Message-ID: <3A2F1BBE.44CF85D8@bellsouth.net> You can say what you want about the man, but his white bread D-VII is just one more bit of proof that Fokkers look good in just about anything. And best of all, no endless debates on that scheme. E. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 23:12:24 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Fat Boob!!! Message-ID: <3A2F1C37.C1D12513@bellsouth.net> But I like fat boobs. E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:16:44 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: A photographer's dilemma (joke) Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7101748920@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> TC > > Which lens would you use? > > Easy - 800mm. You can fetch a real whack to their knuckles that's bound to break their grip Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:35:04 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: PD Decals - we shall see Message-ID: In a message dated 12/6/00 7:17:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, stevenperry@juno.com writes: << His Fokker probably incurred a definite weight penalty as it likely took more than one coat of white to cover the darker Lozenge. (printed loz saved weight as well as manhours). >> I've read in a lot of sources that this Fokker was done at the factory and was covered with plain, non-lozenge fabric- if so, then it wouldn't take such heavy painting to cover it. Then again, maybe this is just another piece of lore without any basis other than constant repetition. RK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:59:58 -0600 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: PD Decals - we shall see Message-ID: <002801c06013$11442e60$28e779a5@com> > He wasn't that fat in those days... Many others outweighed him. > > Lee M. > Okay! Okay! My Bad!! I admit: Herman the German was skinny as Richard Simmons, and used to work out on an earlier version of the stairmaster. He was cut and buff, just like David Hasslehoff (the true 'Boy From Brazil) in his cute little Speedo. I just tend to remember him as the older bloated jackass than as a younger, less than remarkable fighter pilot with very disputable claims (especially considering the German system of confirmation his claims are highly inconsistent with Allied loss records in the sectors where Goering operated; wonder if anyone ever looked at his claims vs. German losses in those sectors!). Heck, now I'm wondering whether to do the 'Swabians' instead. Any good available renderings of it (I have plenty of D.VIIs anyway - I'll do both)? So anyway, my bad for mentioning him in his ot days. Hell, like I'd HATE to insult the memory of Herman Goering!! ;-) DB ...yet the all-white D.VII DOES look purty sharp tho'... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:13:45 -0600 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: PD Decals - we shall see Message-ID: <003001c06014$dbec9020$28e779a5@com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 11:40 PM Subject: Re: PD Decals - we shall see > In a message dated 12/6/00 7:17:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, > stevenperry@juno.com writes: > > << His Fokker probably incurred a definite weight penalty as it likely took > more than one coat of white to cover the darker Lozenge. (printed loz > saved weight as well as manhours). >> > > I've read in a lot of sources that this Fokker was done at the factory and > was covered with plain, non-lozenge fabric- if so, then it wouldn't take such > heavy painting to cover it. Then again, maybe this is just another piece of > lore without any basis other than constant repetition. > RK The only Fokker D.VII's that I'm aware of that appeared in CDL - CDL/streaked OD were the really early ones. I mean, I could be wrong. But Goering's white plane was a higher serial block, IIRC. I would vote that it was loz that was painted. HG never approached the status of a MvR, and at that time in the War, I seriously question the possibility that a factory would devote the time to put a non-standard covering on a combat aircraft merely at the request of a pilot - though that pilot was commanding the most famous unit in the German air service. Unless of course it was an older, refitted airframe that had the older skin on it. Ahh, what do I know? I wasn't there! I was planning to use the A/G 4-color/Reversed loz in the interior - with a very fine mist of light gray on it to represent bleed-through of the paint on the doped fabric. Boy, do I love them D.VII's! DB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:42:08 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: PD Decals - we shall see Message-ID: There is a close up picture of DVII F5125/18 in the back of the JG 1 Colour and Markings book. Its on page 63. The aircraft looks brand spanking new. Even has weight tables. So I dont think its over painted in any way. On the previous page is another DVII that Herman used supposedly red and white "DVII F4253/18". This one has obviously been overpainted "no Weight tables"......... Don't know if that helps. Anyway all this DVII stuff had me looking in the DVII Specials. There is a picture and some drawings of Robert Griem beside his Jasta 34b DVII. Rear of the fuselage is silver with two red stripes. After building his Jasta 34b Albatros DV for the cookup, I have to build this one. Has anyone got any more information on markings of other aircraft flown by Greim with Jasta 34b. I know Jasta 34b had some Pfalz DIII's and flew Triplanes... Ray -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of KarrArt@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: PD Decals - we shall see In a message dated 12/6/00 7:17:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, stevenperry@juno.com writes: << His Fokker probably incurred a definite weight penalty as it likely took more than one coat of white to cover the darker Lozenge. (printed loz saved weight as well as manhours). >> I've read in a lot of sources that this Fokker was done at the factory and was covered with plain, non-lozenge fabric- if so, then it wouldn't take such heavy painting to cover it. Then again, maybe this is just another piece of lore without any basis other than constant repetition. RK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:04:19 +0100 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: RE: Richtofen's cowl Message-ID: Oh thanks - that info is worth to add to my article about Wolffs last fight. Ehmmm....where can I get that article from? Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of > Bob Pearson > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 2:47 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Richtofen's cowl > > > Wolff was downed by Norman Miers MacGregor of Naval Ten. .. see > the article > by Sharon in OTF 13/3 for more info on the fight. > > Bob > > > > > Gaston, I thought Wolf was killed by aileron failure, not shot down > > > Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:24:37 +0100 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: The Gontermann Story was RE: Richtofen's cowl Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of > Lyle Lamboley > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 1:35 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Richtofen's cowl > > > It was Gontermann. > Lyle > > > Gaston, I thought Wolf was killed by aileron failure, not shot down. > > Merrill > > Folks, I guess you are interested to read the details about Gontermann so I copy and paste my whole story here for the list to read. But if you want to see the pictures of the wreck of Gontermanns Dr.1 you still have to take a look at my website, ACES section ;o). happy landings - wherever this may be Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Broken Wings The tragical death of Heinrich Gontermann. Heinrich Gontermann was born in 1896 as the son of a peasant family from Westphalia. At the begin of the war he was a rider of an Ulan regiment. By the end of 1917 he was transferred to the air service, following his ardent wish to finally become a combat pilot. Gontermann made his first contact with Fokker Singleseaters in June 1916. >From Tergnier he wrote to his parents: "In the past time I was throwing bombs at the observation school and practiced machine gun firing. Hope to make my first flight on Fokker in one of the next days." In April 1917, as Gontermann became the leader of Jagdstaffel 15, he belonged already to the well known German aces. He thoroughly dealed with fighting techniques and studied the enemy airplane types. He also showed a special talent in aerobatics and counted as being the best marksman among the flyers. He was a specialist for the attack from the dead angle, where he approached his opponent as close as possible before he pressed the trigger of his guns. Some enemies he disabled with only 5 shots. Gontermann scored 39 aerial victories, of those 18 was enemy balloons. He shot down balloons in rows, two on either the 9th and the 17th of August. On August 18th he got even four balloons plus an airplane. On leaflets thrown by the British he was called "specialist in balloons" and among the Germans he was known as "Die große Ballon-Kanone (the big balloon gun)". Note: The designation "ACE" was first introduced by the Allied. Successful German pilots was designated as "Kanone (gun)". Gontermann was counting as being formal and standoffish. All to often he let the superior hang out, allowing only his own opinion to count, whereby he only had few friends. After his 36th victory he showed clear signs of overstress, for what he was send on leave for one month for relaxation. He only came back to the front on September 24th. As the pre-serial models of the Fokker Dr.1 - the Fokker F.I - arrived at the front he was still in a weak psychological condition. He appeared to be nervous and he was sleeping badly. He also showed weakness in leadership. On September 29th, he barely returned from an aerial fight with 27 holes in his plane. While he was on leave, Gontermann made an official trip to the Fokker factories in Schwerin, where he chose a Triplane for himself. From the front he wrote to the homelands on October 12th: "My Triplane is now ready to fly. Waiting only for good weather for flying, which is missing here since eight days". On the 17th of the month he reported about a sickness, keeping him away from flying: "I have a touch of dysentery..... I'm grounded until the 22nd of the month". But he just couldn't await it to finally fly his new airplane although he refused to believe that his condition of health was still serious. In his next letter he reported: "Now I'm up on my legs for the first time again. It's going well and I think about test flying my Triplane within six days". In his last received letter he wrote about his first test flight in his Triplane: "The day before yesterday I was flying my fantastic Triplane - but at quite a bad weather. I hope the crate will prove it's worth better on the front than the one of Richthofen where the dear Wolff was shot down with, and Voss, who was shot down with the Triplane as well. However, I will reach out with all of my calmness and with all of my care". He seemed to sense that the introduction of the Fokker Dr.1 didn't stand under a good star. With one of his following flights a series of disastrous accidents happened, leading finally to the grounding of all planes of that type. On October, 29 a certain Lieutenant von Karnap arrived at Jasta 15 which was stationed at the front of Aisne, close to Marne. He provided a detailed description of the personality of Gontermann as well as of the circumstances of his crash. "In his appearance of his tall and slim body, which was build very regular and strong, he left only the best impression. He looked a little pale but his great vitality and his bright freshness was striking. He wore the short fur-lined flyer jacket and under its collar one could see the wonderful blue of the Pour-le -Mérite shining through. Von Karnap also reported about the unassuming nature of Gontermann. He didn't smoke and was very easy going with alcohol. All those present stood completely under the impression of his charming personality. After a visit by the chief of staff of the neighbor army, Gontermann appeared at the airfield of La Neuville at about 04.00 o'clock the afternoon of October 30 to see off his visitor. Von Karnapp reported: "At the airfield stood - ready for takeoff - the machine of the squadron leader (Gontermann). It was a new type, which came only days ago from the homeland. At the same time one flight of the squadron prepared for takeoff to the front with the wing. Gontermann prepared for flying too. He pulled the thick and warm flyer overall over his uniform and put on his goggles. Then he put an anti-frost salve onto his face to protect him against the great cold at high altitudes because <<< I am a careful flyer >>> he said. Then he climbed into his new machine - calm, sure and radiant of happiness. After a few moments only he started and very soon he had climbed to a remarkable height. He seemed to feel great joy in showing his spectators what a fighter pilots of our days knows of diving, circling, and looping. For all of us it was a great pleasure to watch the airplane gliding in the bright sun and to follow all of its maneuvers with ones eyes. But suddenly we saw how pieces of canvas detached from the machine, how it became unstable, how it rolled... and dove straight down to crash on the ground. Being a layman I first believed it was just another maneuver of the great flyer but a dreadful scream of the gentlemen next to me opened my eyes. The fall of the machine was inevitable, despite of all efforts of the flyer. Breathless, with the smashing feeling of human faint in such cases, we saw the airplane crashing to the ground in a mighty bang. We hurried to the place, and found the celebrated hero laying in his blood inside of his machine. Gontermann was still alive as they pulled him off the wreck but he suffered from worst wounds he received as he got smashed against the locks of his guns at the impact. He died despite of an emergency surgery. Like a paralyzing blow this accident hit the squadron. The commander of the air units of the seventh army, Hauptmann Stahr, officially informed about the death of Heinrich Gontermann but without mentioning the real circumstances of the accident. "Gontermann left us, unbeaten, by a bad blow." After the report of Leutnant Arnzen, leader of the technical Staff of Jasta 15 and eyewitness of the event, the accident happened on performance of aerobatics, where the wing structure broke apart with the Triplane going out of control. At an altitude of 700m (about 2121ft) Gontermann flew two loops, then entering a dive into a hard left turn. He gave left aileron and left rudder. Both wingtips became instable. At an altitude of 300m (about 909ft), the right aileron broke with a cracking noise, then the upper wing broke apart. Gontermann was unable to recover from the vertical dive, despite of applying full elevator. The right aileron was first to break in flight, the wing followed. Arnzen also gave a detailed description of the wrecked Triplane. After his statement all of the control panels was still intact, except but for the broken aileron. The right aileron was broken in its middle, it's suspension bent about 20 degrees but it was impossible to say if it got bend already in the air or on impact of the aircraft on the ground. All ribs and wingtips was supposed to be gone already in the air. The box spar of the upper wing however got damaged only on the impact on the ground. Arnzen explained the gone ribs with both wingtips being put under a to high pressure. Due to the dive into a hard left turn, the wingtips was exposed to such a high pressure they could not withstand. At the same time the aileron suspension must have collapsed. Also cracks happened inside of the whole wing construction. After Arnzen neither a failure nor overstress of the material was the reason for the accident, but a constructional flaw . He proposed several modifications to reinforce the whole wing construction. Other, similar crashes followed the crash of Heinrich Gontermann. Only one day later, on October 31, Leutnant Günther Pastor from Jasta 11 crashed in his Dr.1 121/17 as parts of his upper wing broke off. He did not survive. Construction flaws could also have been the reason for the crash of Vize-Feldwebel Josef Lautenschläger from Jasta 11, who died in the wreck of his Dr.1 113/17 on October 29. It was said he got killed by friendly fire because German troops confound his Dr.1 with a Sopwith Triplane but the damage shown on his wrecked aircraft lead to the opinion that the true reason for his crash was construction flaws again. Following these accidents the Fokker Triplane got grounded for investigation of the circumstances. Manfred von Richthofen eye witnessed the crash of Leutnant Pastor. He and the Chief of his Technical Staff, Leutnant Konstantin Krefft, ordered to check all available Triplanes immediately. They found CONSTRUCTION FLAWS! Reason was a hasted production and poor inspection tests. Richthofen gave his report to the commission of investigation from Adlershof, which arrived at the front together with Anthony Fokker. The question was: Was the new cantilever wings fully developed or was a careless assembly responsible for the crashes? The new struts stabilized the wings in the area of the box spar but obviously the whole wing construction was not rigid enough. The rear part of the ribs and the weak ailerons which was mounted on a weak spar did not resist the high stress occurring in extreme flight maneuvers such as a dive into a tight turn. The upper wing of the Triplane had to carry about 57% of the pressure working on the whole wing construction. But the main reason for the crashes was not only to be found in such construction flaws. Richthofen together with Krefft arranged for having the canvas removed of the top wing of that Triplane which had flown the most hours. Moisture - a natural consequence of exposure to the weather - had caused damage inside of the wing. One discovered instable joints at the rear end of the wing as well as warped wood and loosen ribs. Similar damage could be found at the examination of a second Triplane where the lower wing was about to dissolve. The wings for the Triplane got assembled at the Schweriner Perzina-Piano Werke. On assembly of the wings the wood was only poorly threatened with a wood preserver or it was not threatened at all because one did not expect the aircraft to have a long life. For the ability to operate from right behind the frontline the units often transferred to a different airfield. As a result the aircraft was often left without fixed hangars and therefore exposed to the weather. Only after discovering the damage caused by moisture a greater number of wooden hangars got requested by Manfred von Richthofen. Anthony Fokker was in a bad situation now. Nobody believed his apologies as he said production was only forced after the wish of higher authorities. In fact he had written a letter to his business director Friedrich Wilhelm Seekatz where he mentioned that it became possible now to double the production through simplification and efficiency measures. On November 6th, Fokker received first instructions to enhance the wing construction of the Triplanes. Several reinforcements got installed, the wooden construction received an overall painting of wood preserver and the canvas received a waterproof treatment. Stress tests was made, finally satisfying the officials. The final report about the modifications was dated November 28, 1917. After that day the grounding order got lifted for the Fokker Dr.1. and the type proved well to be a reliable partner in battle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Copyright© by Gaston Graf, 1999 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:26:59 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Air En Q was RE: ot Southern Cross Message-ID: As usual I can't rely on my memory, it was Air Enthusiast Quarterly no.15 that had the Spad article. No.12 had a very good article about early Vickers Gunbuses. I general, any early Air Enthusiast Quarterly is worth it's weight in gold. It's still a pretty good magazine. /Neil -----Original Message----- From: Crawford Neil Sent: den 6 december 2000 14:03 To: 'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu' Subject: RE: ot Southern Cross Just to make this OT, I think that's the same issue as the equally good article about the Spad VII. Thank you for your information on the Fokker, it's definitely on my build list. /Neil -----Original Message----- From: Volker Häusler [mailto:haeusler@tm.net.my] Sent: den 6 december 2000 13:36 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: ot Southern Cross IIRC, the Fokker F VII is quite accurate not only dimensionaly, but also from the contours. The only GROSSLY overscale items were the two (standing) pilots (1/62, I guess) - but from the design they were also phantastic (especially the guy with his hands behind the back). Are they still in the CHematic issue? If you accept the scale innacuracy, they are great (in every sense) for a real scale ot diorama. BTW, the beg, steal or borrow article on the F VII in my eyes can be found in Air Enthusiast 12 ("Fokkers Lucky Seven"). There also was another one on the F VII in the SCW, which was also very good reading. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:33:20 +0100 From: "Hans Trauner" To: Subject: Re: PD Decals - we shall see Message-ID: <005801c06028$5b3481e0$32a272d4@custom-pc> In my opinion the white Fokker was delivered white. The paintwork is very neat and competely opaque. Additionally the stenciling is complete inkl. weight listings. Hans ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:26:35 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: "AAA - WW1 Group" Subject: Fat Fokker Message-ID: <003f01c0602f$edcdf0c0$1ce8b094@sandyada> >His Fokker probably incurred a definite weight penalty as it likely took more than one coat of white to cover the darker Lozenge. (printed loz saved weight as well as manhours). I could well be wrong, but from memory I thought the Fat One's DVII was a Factory-Special presented to him. ie not white paint over loz, in the field - but factory-covered in plain fabric and then white painted/varnished before delivery. If this is so, unlikely to be much weight penalty. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 06:50:14 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Fat Fokker Message-ID: <006b01c06033$194932c0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> IIRC Hermann's plane also had a non-standard cockpit cutout, check the pictures on the JG1 special. D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 06:58:03 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: Another Hermann trivia WAS: PD Decals - we shall see Message-ID: <00b901c06034$30abb860$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> > Back then, Herman the German was actually quite lithe - didn't put on weight > till after his bout with drugs in the 20s putting up with the pain from when > he was shot during the Beer Hall Putsch. Another quite odd fact is that uniform that HG wore in his picture on the Casino at Metz (smoking a cigarrette in a phony pose). I've never seen another frock like his, all white. Another non-regulation item? In wartime the german army dress uniform should have been light gray with dark facings, but he weras a sort of white "waiter's jacket" in that picture, and I've seen no other photo of any german officer with the same type of outfit. Wich was the original unit that HG came from? D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:06:34 +0100 From: Crawford Neil To: "WW1 list (E-mail)" Subject: OT content SAMI-nov, AerMo-Dec Message-ID: I have complained about the lack of Hobby-Shops in western Sweden, but we do have something rather unusual, a second-hand aircraft book-shop. I meet a friend there every other month, I can't afford it more often, and swap magazines, buy books and talk, he's easy to talk to, being an ex-Vampire/J29 pilot. Also to give you some perspective on craziness, he's built something like 130 F4 Phantoms, about 70 of them in 1/48! This time I bought Janes All the world a/c from 1938 reprint for about 36 dollars, is that a good price? Also is the one from 1919 easily available? OT content in this months magazine harvest: Scale Aviation something (SAMI Nov-00) has the Spad VII as main feature by Richard Caruhana. Nothing new for me, except possibly the profile of a Spa38 machine that I didn't quite recognize, it is slightly oddly painted, but who knows, I'm no expert. The text is well written, I couldn't find anything wrong with it, and drawings that look fine. So this author has now greatly improved his ranking on my list. A must if you like Spad's and don't have the Aircam book, and Air Enthusiast Quarterly no.15. I take it for granted that everyone has the datafile;-) Aeroplane Monthly Dec-00 An article about the first(probably/posibly) flights in Australia by Harry Houdini in a Voisin. A report about the Bergamo Ansaldo Balilla. Two first flights at Shuttleworth, the Sothern Martlet and Bristol M1C. Pilot Andy Sephton reported it very good in pitch and roll,, not so good in roll, stability adequate, and a 15mph higher stall than expected. Comment from me: Isn't 15mph higher stall rather a lot? /Neil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 05:05:56 -0500 From: "John & Allison Cyganowski" To: Subject: Re: PD Decals - we shall see Message-ID: <002801c06035$4b82a440$4737183f@cyrixp166> Apparently they did it for Richthofen's 425/17 & perhaps 477/17. Regards, Cyg. > I seriously question the possibility that a factory > would devote the time to put a non-standard covering on a combat aircraft > merely at the request of a pilot - though that pilot was commanding the most > famous unit in the German air service. Unless of course it was an older, > refitted airframe that had the older skin on it. Ahh, what do I know? I > wasn't there! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:03:41 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Re: ot Southern Cross Message-ID: <000001c06036$b651f9a0$0b2ad7d2@charls> >IIRC, the Fokker F VII is quite accurate not only dimensionaly, but also >from the contours. The only GROSSLY overscale items were the two (standing) >pilots (1/62, I guess) - but from the design they were also phantastic >(especially the guy with his hands behind the back). Are they still in the >CHematic issue? 4 Figures come with the kit. All big. Going on Charles Kingsford-Smith's actual height one of the figures must be about 1/58 scale! David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:05:08 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Re: ot Southern Cross, and Vimy Message-ID: <000101c06036$b7894120$0b2ad7d2@charls> I built the Vulcan one >christmas at about age 8. Looked great at the time no paint and lots of >glue;)... Sheesh I just thought, that was my big Christmas Present of that >year. lol roll forward to now and you should see the size and ahem cost of >my sons Christmas list. Ditto. Same here except it was the Valiant. Must have been about 1961. Ditto for sons too. >Boy I wish I had kept some of the models I had as a kid. I had the Vimy and >Southern Cross Both of these are still available: The Southern Cross From Chematic and the Vimy comes in the Maquette Vickers 66 kit. David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 07:19:46 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: "WW1 modeling Mail List" Subject: wing decals Message-ID: <00d501c06037$3994e160$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Me again... I'm about to decal the albatros wing, and the white square background overlaps the aileron cranks. How do you apply decals? Cut the square applying each part to the wing and the separate aileron or put the decal as a whole and after it's dry you cut by the groove? I don't want to do a mess of it. D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:33:02 +0100 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: RE: Fat Fokker Message-ID: There is also a portrait of Göring available at my website, showing him at his Fokker D.VII. One can see some minor details of the guns (note the telescopic gunsight) as well as an instrument which is probably the altimeter. The aircraft probably was painted red and white, but I have no further info on this. You can find that picture at the translation of Udets book "Ace of the Iron Cross". Go to ACES --> ERNST UDET --> chapter 8, "The End". happy modeling Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of > dfernet0 > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 10:56 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: Fat Fokker > > > IIRC Hermann's plane also had a non-standard cockpit cutout, check the > pictures on the JG1 special. > D. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 06:22:17 +0700 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_Von_Greim=B4s_a/c_-_was:_Goering/PD?= Message-ID: Somebody (Ray?) asked for additional information on von Greim´s aircraft today (unfortunately, I was in rapid fire mood when hitting the delete button - so the original message is gone). Beside the Albatros D Va and the Fokker D VII already mentioned in the original mail, there are at least 2 additional aircraft he flew: 1. Albatros D III 643/17 a/c with offset radiator, 3 colour camouflage, dark stained fuselage, dark (black?) disk on the fuselage sides and turtleback 2. Fokker Dr I 521/17 Aircraft with silver (Jasta colour) tail and Greims twin red bands. Photos in Imries triplane book and the WS Dr I Special (there´s also a colour sideview in there). The Jasta history was described by Dr. Gustav Bock in C&C (US) 16/4. photos as well. I don´t know a photo of a Pfalz Greim might have flown, but Jasta 34 anyway operated a mix of Albatros and Pfalz and was never (?) fully equipped with Pfalz. Oh yes: After the war, Greim flew a Rumpler D I which was most probably also overpainted in silver (overall), had his two red stripes and the name "Rumpler" on top of these. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 06:37:33 +0700 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Volker_H=E4usler?= To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Another Hermann trivia WAS: PD Decals - we shall see Message-ID: Diego wanted to know: "Another quite odd fact is that uniform that HG wore in his picture on the Casino at Metz (smoking a cigarrette in a phony pose). I've never seen another frock like his, all white. Another non-regulation item? In wartime the german army dress uniform should have been light gray with dark facings, but he weras a sort of white "waiter's jacket" in that picture, and I've seen no other photo of any german officer with the same type of outfit. Wich was the original unit that HG came from?" Goering came from the Badisches Infanterieregiment Prinz Wilhelm Nr. 112. No idea wether there´s any connection. He definitely liked somewhat "unusal" colors for his uniform also in the later, less famous part of his career. And yes, for a german uniform this seems unusual. In A-H, Linke-Crawford was quite famous for his white trousers. Volker ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2876 **********************