WWI Digest 2863 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Where's Eric of CSM? by ERIC HIGHT 2) Re: louvres, by "Mike Franklin" 3) Linden Hill Imports by Todd Hayes 4) www.rodenplant.com by Kenneth Hagerup 5) RE: Sopwith Atlantic question by "Ray Boorman" 6) FSM Paint Compatibility Article by "John & Allison Cyganowski" 7) Re: Sopwith Atlantic question by Shane & Lorna Jenkins 8) A good (but ot) Saturday by TomTheAeronut@aol.com 9) Large scale WW1 was:Re:Christmas wish list by Russell W Niles 10) Re: A good (but ot) Saturday by "DAVID BURKE" 11) Red and the Frieherr by Stephendigiacomo@aol.com 12) Floquil 303133 Fr. Dk. Blue Grey (~36320) by Stephendigiacomo@aol.com 13) Re: Red and the Frieherr by "Bob Pearson" 14) Re: Red and the Frieherr by "Brad & Merville" 15) Re: Red and the Frieherr by "Dale Beamish" 16) Re: Red and the Frieherr by "John & Allison Cyganowski" 17) Entex SE5a by "John & Allison Cyganowski" 18) Re: Red and the Frieherr by "David Calhoun" 19) Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr by Stephendigiacomo@aol.com 20) RE: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr by "Ray Boorman" 21) Re: Re:LvR's D-III by "Stefen Karver" 22) RE: [RE: [RE: A good source of plans? Ilya Mourometz]] by Shane Weier 23) Re: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr by TomTheAeronut@aol.com 24) Re: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr by TomTheAeronut@aol.com 25) RE: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr by "Ray Boorman" 26) RE: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr by "Ray Boorman" 27) RE: Sopwith Atlantic question by "Ray Boorman" 28) RE: Red and the Frieherr by "Gaston Graf" 29) Re: Sanger Engineering by Peter Leonard 30) FriedrichFiles Vol XXV - Great War´s ships, aicraft and airships by FriedKappes@netscape.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 17:25:53 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Where's Eric of CSM? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20001202172553.00a879c4@pop.amug.org> brent, i am hiding form you!! as todd said i am trying to dig out from being gone. i'll keep your t-shirt idea in mind and i won't even comment on the wet part!! the ai pe has finally arrived and i will be getting that out to those of you that bought them already. thanks for your patience. also for those of you who missed it the pdmodels decals are in. sp, super job on the swallow. very nice especially considering what it went thru. and i am working on the gotha, it is going slowly but surley. later! regards, eric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 16:48:37 -0800 From: "Mike Franklin" To: Subject: Re: louvres, Message-ID: <000e01c05cc2$c6faa620$8fecfc9e@picker> That would be great. Please do so. Mike Franklin Bellingham, WA USA "No man is so hated as he who will drive the speed limit" ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Cox To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 4:16 PM Subject: Re: louvres, > Mike, I have a couple of photos that show the logos on the Shuttleworth LVG > and a BE12 prop. Would you like these, I can email you the jpgs if you wnat > > Regards > Steve > > nb > =========================================== > steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk > http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk/steveshome.html > If I didn't spend so much time on line > << I'd get some models finished > ================ > > > > Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:50:02 -0700 > > From: "Dale Beamish" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Nieuport 17 prop logos > > Message-ID: <022401c05bd0$32d4b5a0$9831b8a1@darcy> > > > >> I have done the art for several German prop logos, and would like to a > > sheet > >> of any of any country that can be documented. Lets put together a list of > >> what's needed and where the art might be available. I will put out a > > sheet > >> in any scale. > >> Mike Franklin > >> Bellingham, WA USA > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 17:31:12 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Linden Hill Imports Message-ID: <20001203013112.26824.qmail@web9010.mail.yahoo.com> Would anyone who has done business with Linden Hill give me their impression of LHI's service? I just ordered an Aeroclub BE2c from them and would like to know if they're very quick on deliveries. TH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:10:04 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Hagerup To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: www.rodenplant.com Message-ID: <381813715.975809404695.JavaMail.root@web731-wra.mail.com> Roden has artwork for some of next year's releases on their web site. http://www.rodenplant.com/ Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 18:10:20 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: Sopwith Atlantic question Message-ID: Shane, I was cheating a bit, but you should have got this one....... lol http://www.frog.kits.freeuk.com/Airfix.htm -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of Shane & Lorna Jenkins Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 4:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Sopwith Atlantic question Ray Boorman wrote: > > Shane, > Ok then what OT subject is said to be the rarest of Airfix models. With only > 100 or so produced. > The model has its basis as an OT aircraft but was released as a Civil ot > version?? Well I would have said the Furgoson Tractor, but that's not what you mean. Nope got me at a loss. Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:16:34 -0500 From: "John & Allison Cyganowski" To: Subject: FSM Paint Compatibility Article Message-ID: <001301c05ccf$1014d400$2b3c183f@cyrixp166> I am afraid I don't have this anymore. It may have been in an issue where Paul Budzik went to town on the Revell B-17F. This one was stolen from me. Regards, John Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 13:28:17 +1100 From: Shane & Lorna Jenkins To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Sopwith Atlantic question Message-ID: <3A29AFC1.9B42F2D1@tac.com.au> Ray Boorman wrote: > > Shane, > I was cheating a bit, but you should have got this one....... lol OK, score one to Ray ;-) I've never heard of this kitting of the 504. It beats the Furgoson & Stingay kit hands down. But since there's a comprehensive article in an early APMA Magazine on converting the Airfix 504 to a QANTAS version, I'd would have to use that article in converting it anyway or the Mistress would belt the hell outa me ;-). Anyway, no fair using the FROG site to get your Airfix trivia - here's me thinking you were referring to the FROG Vimy by mistake ;-). Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:41:32 EST From: TomTheAeronut@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: A good (but ot) Saturday Message-ID: <94.ce5864a.275b0cdc@aol.com> Thoroughly off-topic, but today was "First Saturday" out at The Planes of Fame Air Museum in Chino, where I am a volunteer. Today the topic was Pearl Harbor and the beginning of the war. Among those who spoke was a retired Marine who had been a ship's company Marine on the cruiser U.S.S. San Francisco, who recounted his experience at the Pearl Harbor attack, and later in November 1942, of the Battle of Guadalcanal, in which the San Francisco took a direct hit in the bridge from a 14-inch batttleship shell, killing all there including the Admiral in command of the American task force. This gentleman was the first man up to the bridge afterwards, an event that lives with him forever, as they tried to find any survivors while the flagship of the fleet sped at 30 knots out of control through the Japanese fleet for 20 minutes... It's called "The Battle of Guadalcanal," and it was very interesting to hear a first-hand account, especially of how he was being taken care of the next morning by a doctor from the U.S.S. Juneau who had come over for help, and how both of them watched the Juneau hit by a Japanese submarine torpedo and sunk - you may have heard of this, it's where the five Sullivans brothers were killed in the sinking. I have seen the bridge of the "San Francisco out at Land's End Park in the city of San Francisco - it looks like swiss cheese. The best "testimony" came from Leroy Gillette, formerly USAAC, 17th Pursuit Squadron in the Philippines, who is one of two guys who shot down a Zero while flying a P-35. As he put it, "this guy popped out of the overcast right in front of me and I had the presence of mind to pull the trigger in the midst of my surprise." He was later an "infantryman" at Bataan and was among those who finally surrendered at Corregidor, survived the Bataan Death March and 3 1/2 years as a slave laborer in Japanese coal mines on the home islands. Very soft-spoken and quite affecting. We are really lucky there are so many of these guys in this part of the country, and that we're recording all this. And for those of you mushing through the snow, I was later at 3,500 feet over Chino in the Museum's Cessna 210 in CAVU weather, with the world's only for-real flying Zero hanging fifty feet away as it posed for its close-up. I'll have prints done this week and will post one for all you to take a look at since I am going to update The Aeronut over the holidays (finally). Cheers, Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 19:24:14 -0800 From: Russell W Niles To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Large scale WW1 was:Re:Christmas wish list Message-ID: <20001202.185749.-509589.1.r_niles1@juno.com> In response to all that responded to my wish list of large scale WW1, thanks for the info. I was aware of the Marcos Miniature's stuff, but I am sure that they are no longer available as I have been unable to get to the web site for a couple of yeras. Or at least to the area that had the Pfalz and the Alb. I also belong to the 1/32 sig, and a "young" lady on that site had made some statements about developing large scale (1/32 or 1/28) WW1 vac kits. I have invited her to join the list here, we'll see if she does. In the meantime I'll continue to work in 1/48th, at least as long as the bi-focals allow me to. Russ Russ Niles IPMS 4450 Too close for missiles....switching to guns. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:19:43 -0600 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: A good (but ot) Saturday Message-ID: <006701c05cd7$e2f1df00$4787aec7@com> My sister got married today. I wore a tux. Probably for the last time. Did get a little more done on the SPAD VII. DB Sorta Bummed ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 22:31:53 EST From: Stephendigiacomo@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: Was Freeman Richtofen's triplane the first one which he painted red or had he already done this with an earlier aircraft? I understand that he was the only one allowed to have an all red plane. ~Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 22:45:01 EST From: Stephendigiacomo@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Floquil 303133 Fr. Dk. Blue Grey (~36320) Message-ID: A nifty color if e'er there was. I have a feeling that it will be used on a number of my models. It has a purple quality to it and seems like an irresistable complement to a lilac or mauve. As to historicity I wouldn't know but - dang - it's nice. (What are all dem numbers for?) {Also picked up an old Humbrol Sky Type S HB 5. It too looks very nice next to a purple/mauve/lilac. It's a . . . a . . . white color.} ~Steve diGiacomo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 19:48:16 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: <200012030502.VAA14291@mail.rapidnet.net> Richthofen had other aircraft painted overall red ... Albatros D.III, D.V come to mind right away. Others also used red aircraft ... Dornheim of Js29 hgad an overall red D.III with a white 1. It was just in Jasta 11 that he had the only all red aircraft, others had some other colours so they could tell each other apart Bob ---------- >From: Stephendigiacomo@aol.com > > Was Freeman Richthofen's triplane the first one which he painted red or had he > already done this with an earlier aircraft? > I understand that he was the only one allowed to have an all red plane. > > ~Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 22:53:54 -0500 From: "Brad & Merville" To: Subject: Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: <000c01c05cdc$a8e34100$d6885ad1@The_Grenade.Workgroup> Nope, he previously flew an all red Albatros DV and before that an all red DIII. They let Jean Navarre have an all red Nieuport II. :^) Brad -----Original Message----- From: Stephendigiacomo@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Saturday, December 02, 2000 10:34 PM Subject: Red and the Frieherr >Was Freeman Richtofen's triplane the first one which he painted red or had he >already done this with an earlier aircraft? >I understand that he was the only one allowed to have an all red plane. > >~Steve > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:00:54 -0700 From: "Dale Beamish" To: Subject: Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: <00bb01c05cdd$a7bec8c0$f531b8a1@darcy> > Nope, he previously flew an all red Albatros DV and before that an all red > DIII. > They let Jean Navarre have an all red Nieuport II. :^) > > Brad And Madon had a red Spad XII didn't he? Dale ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:05:03 -0500 From: "John & Allison Cyganowski" To: Subject: Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: <001401c05cde$37979530$a737183f@cyrixp166> Some of his aircraft were partially red, some were't painted red at all, and as others have commented he had the red Albatri. Didn't David Putnam have a red Spad? Grenill-Milne had the red fuselaged SE5a "Schweinhund". Regards, Cyg. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 10:36 PM Subject: Red and the Frieherr > Was Freeman Richtofen's triplane the first one which he painted red or had he > already done this with an earlier aircraft? > I understand that he was the only one allowed to have an all red plane. > > ~Steve > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:06:06 -0500 From: "John & Allison Cyganowski" To: Subject: Entex SE5a Message-ID: <001a01c05cde$5cca70c0$a737183f@cyrixp166> Anybody have the Entex SE5a 1/48 scale kit? What is it like? Any good? Regards, Cyg. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:33:24 -0800 From: "David Calhoun" To: Subject: Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: <00cb01c05cfb$52df81a0$c30c3ccc@oemcomputer> Hi Steve, Richthofen had a few red aircraft before his overall red triplane Dr1 425/17. A D.III with overall red fuselage (overpainted insignia) but wings were left in the 3 color camouflage over light blue. He had 2 diff Alb D.V as seen in Eduard's kit (neither is overall red) and 2 other Fokker Dr1's 152/17 & 161/17, both have red upper wings, tail, top of fuselage, cowl , struts & wheels. It is not known if any red paint ever touched his Fokker F1 102/17. For profiles of all of these aircraft, see Albatros Publications Richthofen by A E Ferko. Dave Calhoun----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 7:36 PM Subject: Red and the Frieherr > Was Freeman Richtofen's triplane the first one which he painted red or had he > already done this with an earlier aircraft? > I understand that he was the only one allowed to have an all red plane. > > ~Steve > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:50:34 EST From: Stephendigiacomo@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: <79.cf4500e.275b2b1a@aol.com> Thanks to Bob, Brad, Dave et al. for answering my query. Pray let me ask just these more and be not wroth with thy ignoramus: I have the Roden F1 and the Eduard Dr. I kits. What was the difference between an FI and a Dr. I? Between the two histories provided with each kit - sorry, I'm just terribly pressed for real sources and references - it is not clear to me when and which planes were involved in the accidents which caused the type to be grounded for a month or so. Did the accidents in question occur from August through September and then later came the grounding in October? Jasta 11 was the "Flying Circus" and was a part of Jagdgeshwader 1 as squadron is to group? In a message dated 12/3/2000 4:32:35 AM, dcalhoun01@snet.net writes: << Hi Steve, Richthofen had a few red aircraft before his overall red triplane Dr1 425/17. A D.III with overall red fuselage (overpainted insignia) but wings were left in the 3 color camouflage over light blue. He had 2 diff Alb D.V as seen in Eduard's kit (neither is overall red) and 2 other Fokker Dr1's 152/17 & 161/17, both have red upper wings, tail, top of fuselage, cowl , struts & wheels. It is not known if any red paint ever touched his Fokker F1 102/17. For profiles of all of these aircraft, see Albatros Publications Richthofen by A E Ferko. >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:16:05 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: Stephen, >I have the Roden F1 and the Eduard Dr. I kits. What was the difference >between an FI and a Dr. I? There were at least 2 and you could say 3 F1's these were if you like the prototypes of the DR1. There were few differences between a F1 and a DR1. The lower wing of a F1 has no wingtip skids. The Cowl is slightly different. The tailplane is purported to have a cuve in the leading edge of the F1 and is straight on the DR1. This one though is in doubt, since it could just be the angle of the few pictures taken. Oh and 102/17 and 103/17 hd a reduced wing area I think. F1 101/17 was a development aicraft I dont think it served operationaly?? F1 102/17 was presented to Richtofen however Kurt Wolff was killed in this aircraft. F1 103/17 Was presented to Verner Voss and this is the aircraft he was killed in whilst taking on half of 56 Squadron. All the aircraft were finished in standard factory finish... Even though legend sometimes has it Voss had a yellow cowl and Wolff had a red one. btw these subjects get rehashed here about every six months to everyone consternation ;) > Between the two histories provided with each kit - sorry, I'm just >terribly pressed for real sources and references - it is not clear to me when >and which planes were involved in the accidents which caused the type to be >grounded for a month or so. Did the accidents in question occur from August >through September and then later came the grounding in October? All the DR1's were grounded during Late October (17??) of 1917 though November 10th. Causes of the accindent came down to wing stuctures weakened by moisture - Bad Varnish??? > Jasta 11 was the "Flying Circus" and was a part of Jagdgeshwader 1 as >squadron is to group? Yup Jasta 4, Jasta 6, Jasta 10 and jasta 11. Formed in June of 1917 btw look on Allans website and get the address for the Aerodrome and some of the other links. A lot of the history and some of your answers are to be found on such sites. Not as good as books etc, but hey better than nothing. hth's Ray ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:39:13 -0500 From: "Stefen Karver" To: Subject: Re: Re:LvR's D-III Message-ID: <004001c05d4f$f638efe0$326dd6d8@stephen> Good morning-- After examining two of the existing photos of LvR's supposed hand-me-down D.III as reprinted in Kilduff's Illustrated Red Baron--and, of course, always assuming that the photo ascriptions are correct as to the pilot--there would appear be no question that the fuselage of Lothar's machine was dark all over, and that appearance has nothing to do whatsoever with the way orthochromatic film is believed by some to render Albatros "straw yellow" varnished ply. Kilduff suggests that LvR's D.III is the third in the well-known photo of the combined line-up of J11 and J4. If this identification is correct, then the quite naturally light appearance of the unpainted areas of T.O. Krefft's ship in the foreground, as well as all of the unpainted J4 machines, contradicts the hypothesis. The photos do bring up another problem, however. What exactly is the evidence for the red band? Two fairly good photos, one being a rather good closeup, show no sign of the band. Elsewhere, LvR notes that his personal color was, of course, yellow. As far as the one in the photos being a hand-me-down from big brother, Kilduff quotes the following from MvR: "For whatever reason, one fine day I hit upon the idea of having my crate painted glaring red. The result was that absolutely everyone knew of my red bird." Richthofen goes on to report, with some satisfaction, the fact that his victims of 24 January were well aware at least of his red aircraft, if not of its pilot. "Glaring" and "red bird" do not suggest to me at least the presence merely of a red band. Perhaps the tonal difference is more apparent on other photos or better reproductions? Regards, Stef ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 10:45 PM Subject: Re:LvR's D-III | Hi Stef, | I am working on this one now in 1/72nd scale. Trying to | turn the old Entex/Eldon D-III I found in my garage into | a silk purse!@#$#.I can't find the exact source at the | moment(think it is at work), but I did read in one of the | sources I am using that there were dark-stained fuselage | D-III's. This is one of the few times I digress from | Dan-San Abbott and other folks regarding this. My Uncle | has been in photography all of his life and is an expert | on film chemistry and when I asked him about this(using | the photo of Lothar in this plane and another | pilot(Baumer???) on a step-ladder)after showing him other | photos of the "yellowish" stained fuse D-III's, he said | that it wouldn't be that dark even on othochromatic film. | He said that while yellow can appear darker than normal, | it wouldn't be that dark. I will locate the passage I | read that describes this darker-stained D-III. The | fuselage band is red. This is also the hand-me-down from | big brother Manfred. | | Regards, | John Impenna ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:31:18 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: [RE: [RE: A good source of plans? Ilya Mourometz]] Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C71621D33@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Friedrich says: > >Plus NKR carries them, and has some awesome prices and > >service (at least to the US) is better than *almost all > other* US hobby > >shops. > > My "problem" is, that I do not live in the US, but in Germany... The funny thing here is that NKR isn't in the US *either*, so the fact that you live in Germany is not a problem! NKR is an internet hobby shop based in Australia Shane ********************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this e-mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted e-mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. e-mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au phone: Australia 1800500646 ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 01:43:00 EST From: TomTheAeronut@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: <25.e3f3574.275b4574@aol.com> In a message dated 12/2/00 11:52:50 PM EST, Stephendigiacomo@aol.com writes: << I have the Roden F1 and the Eduard Dr. I kits. What was the difference between an FI and a Dr. I? >> Big difference is the ailerons and the horizontal stab (diferent shape - curved leading edge, slightly smaller elevators), and the fact only 3 F-1s were made - *all* of which had olive cowls. TC (Ducking but still believing) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 01:45:55 EST From: TomTheAeronut@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: <81.3adbe2f.275b4623@aol.com> In a message dated 12/3/00 0:24:18 AM EST, Ray_Boorman@telus.net writes: << All the DR1's were grounded during Late October (17??) of 1917 though November 10th. Causes of the accindent came down to wing stuctures weakened by moisture - Bad Varnish??? >> Nope - bad glue - they were delaminating. TC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:11:45 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: Darn, I knew there was something I forgot, sheesh brain like swiss cheese ;) Oh the glue delaminated because of moisture buildup in the wing. May have been caused by not enought varnish. Plus bad workmanship and design practices. (Could be Fokkers infamous penny pinching, or is that a Weyl myth) -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of TomTheAeronut@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 10:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr In a message dated 12/2/00 11:52:50 PM EST, Stephendigiacomo@aol.com writes: << I have the Roden F1 and the Eduard Dr. I kits. What was the difference between an FI and a Dr. I? >> Big difference is the ailerons and the horizontal stab (diferent shape - curved leading edge, slightly smaller elevators), and the fact only 3 F-1s were made - *all* of which had olive cowls. TC (Ducking but still believing) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:12:21 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: lol, forgot to read your second post Tom. Ray -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of TomTheAeronut@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 10:51 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Thanks and further historical clarification - Re: Red and the Frieherr In a message dated 12/3/00 0:24:18 AM EST, Ray_Boorman@telus.net writes: << All the DR1's were grounded during Late October (17??) of 1917 though November 10th. Causes of the accindent came down to wing stuctures weakened by moisture - Bad Varnish??? >> Nope - bad glue - they were delaminating. TC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:16:17 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: RE: Sopwith Atlantic question Message-ID: >Shane & Lorna Jenkins posted > But since there's a comprehensive article in an early APMA Magazine on >converting the Airfix 504 to a QANTAS version, I'd would have to use >that article in converting it anyway or the Mistress would belt the hell >outa me ;-). Nope I'm not gonna comment on that one..... ;) > Anyway, no fair using the FROG site to get your Airfix trivia - here's >me thinking you were referring to the FROG Vimy by mistake ;-). Nope just trying to mis-direct you..... Although Frog and Airfix were the most available Kits in England when I was a kid, so I do get who did what confused sometimes. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 10:56:07 +0100 From: "Gaston Graf" To: Subject: RE: Red and the Frieherr Message-ID: Originally Freiherr von Richthofens wish was to camouflage his aircraft in a way the enemy could not spot it until it was to late for him but all of his attempts to camouflage his aircraft did not satisfy him so he decided to give it a color distinguishing it well from other aircraft so his men could identify him easily in a melee. That's why he painted it red, and other painted their kites in different colors. The unit was nicknamed the Flying Circus because it flew the colorful aircraft and travelled from one airfield to the next wherever their help was needed. Gaston Graf (ggraf@vo.lu) Meet the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" at: http://www.jastaboelcke.de > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of > Stephendigiacomo@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 4:36 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Red and the Frieherr > > > Was Freeman Richtofen's triplane the first one which he painted > red or had he > already done this with an earlier aircraft? > I understand that he was the only one allowed to have an all red plane. > > ~Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 11:27:43 +0000 From: Peter Leonard To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Sanger Engineering Message-ID: <3A2A2E2F.B6001DC5@cwcom.net> I didn't know they did any OT stuff, but I have seen some of the 1/48 ot like the Wimpey and the Halifax. It's all a little blank in the detail department, which is probably not such a big deal for 1/24 OT. However, a freind with a product knowledge the size of a planet has suggested that many of the molds owe their origins to various other now defunct companies and that the quality and standard of detail is therefor "variable" cheers Peter L Todd Hayes wrote: > Has anyone seen any of the 1:24 OT vacs by this > company? > > TH > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 3 Dec 00 12:03:19 GMT From: FriedKappes@netscape.net To: Subject: FriedrichFiles Vol XXV - Great War´s ships, aicraft and airships Message-ID: <20001203120321.9960.qmail@cacst118.netaddress.usa.net> Hi fellows! Could somebody supply me with some of these information? Please let me know, if you have facts, sources or other help for me. Do you need background info on certain WW1 craft? I own some books on that (Conway, Gröner,...). Maybe there´s something for you on my homepage. Almirante Lynch (Chilean destroyer ~1913) date of commission, line drawing Amiens (French sloop 1919) line drawing Chiang Hsi (Chinese rivergunboat ~1911) date of commission CMB 40ft and 70ft (Brit. MTBs of WWI) line drawings Cordoba and La Plata (Argentinian destroyer 1912) line drawing Lens III (German harbour launch 1910) speed Marne (French sloop WWI) when was her armement altered? Oppossum, Sunfish, Ranger (Brit. destroyers 1896) line drawing T 1 (German minelayer ~1909, deployed to Chinese colony) date of commission Ansaldo SVAI (Idrovolante): date of commission Borel Typ Bo 11 monoplane: line drawing Levy-Lepen R: date of commission (French flying boat) Short 38: line drawing - 74: date of commission, line drawing, armament - 135: date of commission, line drawing, armament - 166: date of commission, line drawing Sikorsky Ilya Mourometz V: MG locations: line drawing/ photo ANY PICTURE!! Sopwith 807: date of commission, line drawing, armament Vought VE-7S: dates of commission North Sea (NS-) Class: armament Parseval PL 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 11, 13, 19: armament, line drawings Zeppelin LZ 2, 3, 4, 5: line drawings Thank you very much in advance Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://sites.netscape.net/friedkappes Lots of nice links, pictures (photos, drawings, ...), book reviews, literature aids, a dictionary,... ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2863 **********************