WWI Digest 2566 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: How to Pay Lubos at Spin?? by fedders 2) Re: Contact!! by Ernest Thomas 3) Progress on Alb D.III by "Leonard Endy" 4) Decal problem - any ideas? by Zulis@aol.com 5) Re: Testimonial For CSM (One Happy Customer!) by ERIC HIGHT 6) Re: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE by "Matthew Bittner" 7) Re: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE by "S Karver" 8) Re: Decal problem - any ideas? by Al Superczynski 9) Re: Congratulations Brad and Merville by KarrArt@aol.com 10) Re: DVII Favorite? by KarrArt@aol.com 11) Re: Photos - where's the BE2e? by Dennis Ugulano 12) Re: How to Pay Lubos at Spin?? by KarrArt@aol.com 13) Japanese Kite Madness by Lyle Lamboley 14) Re: Decal problem - any ideas? by Zulis@aol.com 15) Re: How to Pay Lubos at Spin?? by Albatrosdv@aol.com 16) Re: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE by "P. Howard" 17) RE: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE by "Webmaster Jasta Boelcke" 18) Re: DVII Favorite? by "Limon3" 19) RE: How to Pay Lubos at Spin?? by Brent.A.Theobald@seagate.com 20) Re: DVII Favorite? by Lyle Lamboley 21) Next from Spin Models by Albatrosdv@aol.com 22) Finished!!! by Otisgood@aol.com 23) Re: DVII Favorite? by Otisgood@aol.com 24) Re: DVII Favorite? by Albatrosdv@aol.com 25) Ynt: Profile list by "=?iso-8859-9?B?QvxsZW50IFn9bG1hemVy?=" 26) Re: New Kit Survey by Todd Hayes 27) RE: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE by "Webmaster Jasta Boelcke" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:47:09 -0500 (CDT) From: fedders To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: How to Pay Lubos at Spin?? Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Shane Weier wrote: > Candice.... > > >I also have a 1/48 Handley > > Page I want to do I also have a 1/48 Handley Page kit - from a 75 year old friend who got it as a kid! it is solid like the old Strombeckers peter > > Now how the hell do I do a "quizzically raised eyebrow" emoticon? > > What gives? Do please tell more... > > Shane > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential > and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). > If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution > or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are > requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems > to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. > E-Mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. > ************************************************************** > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:52:08 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Contact!! Message-ID: <399FF098.24FB983F@bellsouth.net> Sandy Adam wrote: > > You'll never guess what we talked about! The absurdity of consensual crimes in a free society? Scottish Indepencence? The skyrocketing price of lingerie? Tell us, please. E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:20:11 -0400 From: "Leonard Endy" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Progress on Alb D.III Message-ID: Just a note to let you all know that I have posted parts III and IV of my Albatros build to my site. http://www2.firstsaga.com/lfendy/Albatros/Alb_Index.htm Final prep being done for painting. Hope to get started today. Cam - you can grab the info direct if you like. Len (Who realized that the cut-off is 30 Sep - not 1 Sep - and quickly went back to procrastinating...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:04:29 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Decal problem - any ideas? Message-ID: <6f.96a1964.26d15b8d@aol.com> Greetings! I have just been struggling with a decal problem and, after a couple of failures, I thought I might ask the list for ideas. I have an old matchbox model which is now ready for decalling. Often, decals come with a separate, thin sheet of onionskin paper or wax paper (I dont know what it is really made of) to protect the decal. Well, this old one has adhered to the decals, and firmly enough that if I try and gently separate them it either shreds itself or damages the decal image. My first thought was that it was probably condensation or moisture that caused this so, if I cut out the decal and dip it in water to apply as usual, the onionskin would just separate as soon as it got wet. Nope - water had no effect on it at all - stuck to the decal like glue, even when the backing paper slipped off. OK - plan two - attach the decal to the model as usual (even with the onionskin still stuck to the decal part) and then let the micro sol melt the onionskin off, or at least break the bond. Hard to believe, but micro sol didnt make an impression on this persistent bond either. Short of warming up the blowtorch, any other ideas on how to separate these? Most of the decals from this sheet I can replace from my spares box, but there are four of them that are unique to this particular plane and those I would like to rescue. TIA, Dave Z ps - while my question is generic (could be OT or ot), for those that are curious, the model is ot with an OT element - I wanted to make a german F-104 with the neat red "R" from the Richtofen Jagdgeschwader. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:15:00 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Testimonial For CSM (One Happy Customer!) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000820091500.008c7f7c@pop.amug.org> bob, thanks and my pleasure. i figured that was the easiest way to answer your questions since you didn't have a data file. on the mg parts as dennis says "Each modeler will rise to their own level of masochism." it is a definate case of dicta ira! it was pleasure talking to you when you ordered. thanks again, it is much appreciated!! sp, thanks for the kind words i am glad you are pleased and hope it was worth the wait. i am looking forward to seeing the pics and review. gaston, welcome and i'll look forward to hearing from you. the ai should be ready soon. there is a small problem with the pe which i hope will be solved on monday. the gotha is coming along and i hope for a release by the end of next month. as to NiAg pe versus brass i think the NiAg is far superior than brass or stainless. actually the NiAg is niether nickle or silver but some kind of brass alloy. i will admit that .006 may be a little thick for 1/72nd but since that is not the main thrust of my line i can live with it. SORRY MATT what is it? bawawawawaw oh well can't please all of the folks all the time!!! on the do. this was the information i was given when the kit was produced. the info coming from peter grosz and marty digmayer. since the release of the mini-df(a year or so after the release of the kit, the do has been out for almost 4 years now) i would say that "our" first assessment was wrong. my guess would be that those pesky streaks are "wrinkles" in the covering reflecting light differently than the surrounding areas. i would tend to agree with shane that they probably were not painted although painting it would make sense from a preservation standpoint. in other words a major case of dicta ira!! just my .02 worth and i'll go away now!! thanks again to all of you for your continued support!! later eric ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:19:14 -0500 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE Message-ID: <200008201618.JAA24116@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 10:38:46 -0400 (EDT), S Karver wrote: > Oops, here's the kite. Please don't post binaries to the list. Some people are subscribed to the list via text-only email. This is a definite no-no. Instead, send them direct to the person, or send a general email to the list saying you have the image, and have all those who want the image email you *direct* (NOT via the list) for a copy. Matt Bittner WW1 Site Co-Editor :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:32:43 -0400 From: "S Karver" To: Subject: Re: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE Message-ID: <200008201653.MAA14851@pease1.sr.unh.edu> I know this. This was a double-oops. We all make mistakes. Regards, S ---------- > From: Matthew Bittner > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE > Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 12:23 PM > > On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 10:38:46 -0400 (EDT), S Karver wrote: > > > Oops, here's the kite. > > Please don't post binaries to the list. Some people are subscribed to > the list via text-only email. This is a definite no-no. Instead, send > them direct to the person, or send a general email to the list saying > you have the image, and have all those who want the image email you > *direct* (NOT via the list) for a copy. > > > Matt Bittner > WW1 Site Co-Editor :-) > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:40:24 -0500 From: Al Superczynski To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Decal problem - any ideas? Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:08:47 -0400 (EDT), Dave wrote: >Often, decals come with a separate, thin sheet of onionskin paper or wax paper (I >dont know what it is really made of) to protect the decal. Well, this old >one has adhered to the decals, and firmly enough that if I try and gently >separate them it either shreds itself or damages the decal image. Have you tried gently steaming it off? Al http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:51:24 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Congratulations Brad and Merville Message-ID: <43.93912f8.26d1749c@aol.com> In a message dated 8/18/00 12:34:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bpearson@rapidnet.net writes: << Just wanted to congratulate Brad Gossen on his impeding nuptuals tomorrow to the very charming Merville Spalburg ... wish I could be there. >> Well shucks....hope it all went well! RK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:51:21 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: DVII Favorite? Message-ID: <3a.9580578.26d17499@aol.com> In a message dated 8/20/00 4:51:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lozenge1@telusplanet.net writes: << O.K. Ladies and Gents What are your favorite DVII schemes? Dale >> The Hell's Angel's movie ships. RK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:51:16 -0400 From: Dennis Ugulano To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Photos - where's the BE2e? Message-ID: <200008201351_MC2-B04C-B226@compuserve.com> Nigel, >> But what I reallywant to see are photos of number 100, your Pegasus BE2e << Your wish is my command. :-) Upon your request, # 100 has been coded and is ready for downloading to the web. Tech support has to handle that part. I can write the code but it will sit here and look at me as I haven't a clue how to get it out to the waiting masses. (ah, ego is a great thing, isn't it?) Anyway, the photos should be loaded today. >> was there an instrument panel in the observer's cockpit? Similar layout to the pilot's panel? << Check the Datafile, there are some instruments on the forward panel but not as many. The only problem of construction was the curved cover for the engine. It doesn't fit well. Dry fit a lot and increase the curve and it should be ok. Dennis Ugulano email: Uggies@compuserve.com http://members.xoom.com/Uggies/dju.htm Page Revised 8/2/00 "Each modeler will rise to their own level of masochism." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:51:20 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: How to Pay Lubos at Spin?? Message-ID: In a message dated 8/20/00 7:50:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pfed@saladin.wustl.edu writes: << I also have a 1/48 Handley Page kit - from a 75 year old friend who got it as a kid! it is solid like the old Strombeckers peter >> Now THAT'S something I'd like to see! RK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:54:15 -0400 From: Lyle Lamboley To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Japanese Kite Madness Message-ID: <20000820.135417.-142325.0.lyle.lamboley@juno.com> Stef, Thank you for all of the nice code you sent us. After studying it completely, I saw the image of the Japanese kite quite clearly. Of course, I have a unique skill in that I am actually a Dalek going incognito on this planet (boy, it's tough typing with tentacles) and can analize things like this quite easily, but I'm afraid our human friends on the list will have a more difficult time of it. Why don't you just include the link (again) and save having to weed through that crap? Regards, Lyle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:02:24 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Decal problem - any ideas? Message-ID: Al writes: << Have you tried gently steaming it off? >> I think that might be next. I am wondering if perhaps that paper does have some wax-type content which "glued" it to the decals (maybe the kit had been left in the sun?). This would explain why water and micro sol had no effect. I think I will try dry heat first - maybe an iron through a cloth. If that doesnt work, will fire up the steam. Thanks for the suggestion, Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:20:28 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: How to Pay Lubos at Spin?? Message-ID: <7e.94043d6.26d17b6c@aol.com> In a message dated 8/20/00 7:48:23 AM EST, sdw@qld.mim.com.au writes: << andice.... >I also have a 1/48 Handley > Page I want to do Now how the hell do I do a "quizzically raised eyebrow" emoticon? What gives? Do please tell more... >> She has a 1/48 resin model of the Vickers Vimy, not the H-P. And the explanation is, "she's blonde".... :-) TC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:30:48 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE Message-ID: <006601c00ad4$c5613300$229d8ece@phoward> Your pictures only add to the credibility that the cowling is a different color. Because of dark exposures in the pictures, the cowling separation from the fuselage was not even visible. After adjusting the Gamma over the entire picture enough to make the separation visible, the are plainly tonal differences between the forward part of the fuselage and the cowling. Digitally speaking, tonal differences that are hard for us to see are easy for a computer, especially since it has no opinion. I have tried to remain a neutral party in this discussion of the Voss F.1 colors, but, based on these tonal differences it is becomming much harder. The computer uses levels of saturation to judge how a black and white image of any type is rendered. Ortho or pan, makes no difference to the computer, only saturation. If you want to see differences in saturation, look at the photos in negative, the differences are even more plain. The cowlings on Fokker aircraft were painted at the factory, not doped, so minor variations in shade I can overlook. Due to the differences in substances applied some leeway has to be expected, but major variances are not so easily explained. As for how dark yellow prints on orthochromatic film, please look at the photos of Jasta 10 aircraft in "Von Richthoven's Flying Circus" by Greg VanWyngarden. Page 34 has pictures of Pfalz D.III 1370/17 which was captured an documented EXTENSIVELY. The Green tail is reproduced in a substantially lighter shade than the Yellow nose and struts! This is not conjecture, this is done off of official RFC records on the aircraft's markings. The yellow is produced in shades approximating those of black. Also, as far as F.1 101/17 and the "solid color" nose you mention on the website, that is bare metal. The cowling and upper deck on that aircraft were left in bare metal in that and several other photos as seen in Alex Imrie's "The Fokker Triplane" pg 18 and 19 show this aircraft with these surfaces unpainted. Another point of interest is the fact that the landing gear struts were finished in a dark color, probably olive or whatever green you want to associate with Fokker, whereas the photos on the website and on pg 22 picture 23 in Imries book clearly show that F.1 103/17 had light colored struts at one time, along with the inside surface of the wheels. The picture below shows the struts and in a dark shade, indicating that they had been painted. Now I ask, is it logical that a mechanic who supposedly doesn't have enough time to paint these items Yellow magically has time to paint them Green? Especially whern he knows he is going to be required to paint them yellow to meet with squadron marking standards at a later time... I don't buy that for a minute. Paint the cowling whatever color you want, but don't try to act like those who say that the cowling was yellow, haven't thought about the situation. Karl Timm was Voss' mechanic and he said it was yellow, and he was there working on the ONLY Triplane in the Jasta. I think if I were him, I'd remember that little detail on a one of a kind plane, flown by a one of a kind pilot... Just my .02 -----Original Message----- From: Webmaster Jasta Boelcke To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 5:13 AM Subject: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE >Dear list members, > >following the discussion about the color of Voss' Triplanes rudder and >cowling I offered Dave Watts to send me his photographs to post them at my >website so he can share them with all of us. The pictures are now online. >Please click on the red DISCUSSION button in the left frame to load the >page. More b/w pictures will be added soon. > >thank you for visiting Jasta Boelcke > >Gaston Graf >Webmaster of the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" >http://www.jastaboelcke.de > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:40:02 +0200 From: "Webmaster Jasta Boelcke" To: Subject: RE: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE Message-ID: Hello Stef! > I think you have done an excellent service to the community by > creating the > (Voss) Discussion > page at your site. I think it is only in this way, providing a shared > resource to which all can > refer, that a real virtual/cyberspace discussion forum can take place. Thank your very much for the reconition! It's a pleasure to participate in the discussions going on on this list. I joined only a few days ago and find this list a wonderful source of information. > I think your the photograph of F1 101/17 will be the turning point in > deciding the issue, since the > question of the finish of the wheel covers begins to be crucial. You seem > to imply in your caption > that the wheels fitted to F1 101/17 are actually 'two-tone concentric.' > This actually does not > show up on my monitor. Can you add to this? Now I'm confused :o(. Doesn't the picture load on your computer? I checked the HTML code and found no error. It sometimes happens that Frontpage adds the local path on my harddrive to the code instead of the diretory path of the web only so I believed this was the case but it isn't so all pics should be loading correctly. But I usually check the code with notepad before uploading the pages. The wheel covers you are referring to appear to be painted in solid color, not in the two-tone concentric. > I would suggest two quick emendations to your introductory statement. > First, why not point your visitors > directly to the World War One Modeling Page site directly? Good idea, but I think I haven't the link. Is it this one perhaps: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ ? If not I would appreciate to get the correct link so I can add it to the page. I added the C&C link because it was there where I discovered the mailing lists. Second, there > is no question in my mind > that these photos--and nearly all of the existing photos of the > period--are > on orthochromatic fil. This > is a matter I hope to post to the List shortly, hopefully today. As part > of the research on ortho that I have > done, I also hope to show that yellow colors are just not rendered as dark > as some folks think. I'm looking forward to get more details on this matter. It's really interesting. Also I thought about interviewing a professional photographer about orthochromatic films. Perhaps he knows more. But I still believe that all of the pre-serial triplanes ahd their cowlings painted in standart colors. My reason leading me to that conclusion simply is the fact that the F1s was build for frontline evaluation before the triplane could enter serial production. I doubt it that they added other personal markings than the dragon face on F1 103/17. > I don't kno whether you caught my posting of a site address where a very > interesting Japanese fighting > kite can be foound. I attach the .jpg I pulled from the site, which I > believe is relevant to the Voss discussion > since I believe conclusions about the paint job cannot be made by looking > only at the photos of the plane itself. > Best regards, No I did not get that URL but I've gotten your email with the jpg - thank you. I've read that Voss took his inpiration for the face on his triplane from the Japanese Yako dragons. > BTW, the images you have posted seem very clear. Are you scanning from > actual photos in your possession? Oh I would be very happy to own just one of the original pictures off course but unfortunately I have to scan them from books and other publications. I usually scan at 600dpi 32bit colors with a CanoScan600 SCSI scanner which is equipped with a Xeon lamp inside. I then edit the pics and remove dirt and scratches. Often there are black or white dots, stains of dirt or crackles. I remove such errors using the very handy clone tool of Corel Photopaint 7. A good example of a dirty picture is the one of F1 101/17 standing in front of that hangar. Note the white dots! On other pics at the discussion page you can see the backpage shining through. On the pics at the discussion page I only applied a sharpness filter and greyscale conversion after resampling. After editing was finished I resample the very big picture to about 10-20% of its original size. I then apply a sharpness filter to sharpen the overall picture before I transform it to greyscale. While the 600dpi original file is saved in bmp format (taking up to 25Mb each) the small webversion is saved as JPG with a very low compression ratio. To the small version I add a white frame. Using MS Image Composer I then add a shadow and a watermark before inserting the pics into my HTML pages. The best quality of pictures that I have are those printed in the original German edition of Ernst Udets book from 1935. Some of them are fullpage pictures and all pictures are printed on a semigloss special paper which did not turn yellow through the years. How yellow the pages really are now you can see on the sample of Otto Bergens handwriting which I posted at the chapter called "homecoming". The photographs in the 1933 edition of Richthofens book and those in the 1932 edition of the Boelcke biography are also of very good quality. It takes a lot of time to edit the scans but the quality of the final picture is really worth the effort. Unfortunately I do not own a good printer so I cannot test how the prints of the 600dpi originals would come out. sincerely Gaston Graf Webmaster of the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" http://www.jastaboelcke.de ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:50:21 -0700 From: "Limon3" To: Subject: Re: DVII Favorite? Message-ID: <004601c00ad7$7eb966e0$ee4e1c3f@f4w2s5> Stark's "Li" Gabe -----Original Message----- From: Dale Beamish To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 6:24 AM Subject: Re: DVII Favorite? > >> > O.K. Ladies and Gents >> > What are your favorite DVII schemes? >> >> Tiger stripped. >> E. > >With or without the American Postal Service Eagle on top? > >Incoming ....... >Dale > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:49:30 -0500 From: Brent.A.Theobald@seagate.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: How to Pay Lubos at Spin?? Message-ID: Howdy fellow Jastafarians! Candice mentioned: >I also have a 1/48 Handley Page I want to do Uh-oh! There's a cookup ideer. 1/48 bombers. I still have the Vimy I'm itching to start. And Eric's Gotha's coming out soon. Later! Brent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:52:35 -0400 From: Lyle Lamboley To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: DVII Favorite? Message-ID: <20000820.145237.-142325.3.lyle.lamboley@juno.com> >O.K. Ladies and Gents >What are your favorite DVII schemes? >Dale Today, it stands at: 1. Buchner 2. Degelow 3. Thom 4. Friederichs 5. Stark 6. Willi von Klugermann ;-) Lyle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:15:37 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Next from Spin Models Message-ID: Just heard that, this fall, the fifth kit from Spin will be out: a 1/48 Morane-Saulnier AI. I can hear the cheers already. TC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:17:40 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Finished!!! Message-ID: <50.9d41ea1.26d188d4@aol.com> My Albatros cookup model of Gerhard Hubrich's DVa in Marine Feld Jasta markings is now finished. I hope to have pictures posted by tomorrow. It turned out somewhat differently than I expected but all in all I'm pretty pleased with it. Thanks to Dale Beamish and Mike Franklin for some cool decals, and also Greg van Wyngarten for some info on colors. Otis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:18:52 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: DVII Favorite? Message-ID: <43.93e2ca1.26d1891c@aol.com> In a message dated 8/20/00 1:56:04 PM Central Daylight Time, lyle.lamboley@juno.com writes: > >O.K. Ladies and Gents > >What are your favorite DVII schemes? > >Dale Willi Gabriel's. otis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:19:43 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: DVII Favorite? Message-ID: In a message dated 8/20/00 1:56:04 PM EST, lyle.lamboley@juno.com writes: << >O.K. Ladies and Gents >What are your favorite DVII schemes? >Dale >> Udet, Berthold, Veltjens, Hantelman, Loerzer, Hippert. TC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 22:45:29 +0300 From: "=?iso-8859-9?B?QvxsZW50IFn9bG1hemVy?=" To: Subject: Ynt: Profile list Message-ID: <005501c00adf$32e495c0$5d0d8ec3@yilmazer> Hi Lee, I believe I could make use of that Profile listing. Please lunch a copy in my direction, landing strip is ready to receive it. Thanks and best wishes ; - ) Bulent Yilmazer Ankara - TURKEY yilmazer@tr-net.net.tr -----Özgün İleti----- Kimden: Lee Mensinger Kime: Multiple recipients of list Tarih: 18 Ağustos 2000 Cuma 02:12 Konu: Profile list > >To anyone that wants it. >I have the complete Profile Listing arranged by Aircraft name. > >I found it to be more useful than arranging by number. > >I will sent a copy to anyone that asks for it. It is in Word and ready to fly. > >5,616 Characters, arranged in two column 6 pages or three column 5 pages. Chose your poison. > >Save to a floppy and it will last for years. > >Lee M. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:06:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Hayes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New Kit Survey Message-ID: <20000820200644.15844.qmail@web9003.mail.yahoo.com> Russ, You want 1:32 WW1 kits? Try VAMP Models. A company called Sram has released three new 1:32 resin kits. Halberstadt CL.IV, Fokker D.VIII, and an Albatros D.II. Todd --- Russell W Niles wrote: > Paul > Sorry I am so late in getting out a reply to this, > but I have been out of > town for the past several days. > As a large scale builder I would like to throw my > vote in for 1/32. > Furthermore, I would vote for the Albatross, or > Eindecker. There are two > Allied power aircraft currently available in that > scale, the Nieuport 17 > and the Camel, and Hobbycraft announced the release > of the Spad in 1/32 > for this year. However nothing from the other side > in 1/32nd. > I do agree with most of the arguments about 1/28th , > BUT there certainly > is more stuff to go along with 1/32nd for diorama > possiblities in 1/32nd. > The other thing is, it must be affordable. All of > our voting doesnt do > any good if the model cost $50.00 to $100.00. Thats > just not affordable > to most of us. > > Russ > > Russ Niles IPMS 4450 > Too close for missiles....switching to guns. > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE > software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 22:24:01 +0200 From: "Webmaster Jasta Boelcke" To: Subject: RE: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA BOELCKE WEBSITE Message-ID: Dear Mr. Howard, thank you very much for your opinion, altough I would appreciate if you would write further comments in a less offending way than you wrote this one. > > > Your pictures only add to the credibility that the cowling is a different > color. Because of dark exposures in the pictures, the cowling separation > from the fuselage was not even visible. After adjusting the > Gamma over the > entire picture enough to make the separation visible, the are > plainly tonal > differences between the forward part of the fuselage and the cowling. > Digitally speaking, tonal differences that are hard for us to see are easy > for a computer, especially since it has no opinion. I wonder in what way you looked at the pictures. You say the separation between cowling and fuselage are not visible? Did you notice the scuffed paint letting the metal shine through on the edge of the cowling, where it was fixed with a ring and two bolts with nuts??? I tried the gamma correction too and what I saw was that the surfaces of cowling and canvas are both giving the color a different finish. While the metal surface of the cowling is smooth it gives the color a smooth, light reflecting surface. Because of the reflected light it is only naturally that the color appears lighter when applying gamma correction. The canvas appears to be darker because of its rough surface. It's surface is reflecting much less light so it appears darker. This can be proved! Does anybody agree on this theory of mine? > > I have tried to remain a neutral party in this discussion of the Voss F.1 > colors, but, based on these tonal differences it is becomming much harder. > The computer uses levels of saturation to judge how a black and > white image > of any type is rendered. Ortho or pan, makes no difference to > the computer, > only saturation. If you want to see differences in saturation, > look at the > photos in negative, the differences are even more plain. Maybe I'm just a blind mole but I cannot see any difference when I compare the F1 pictures... The cowlings on > Fokker aircraft were painted at the factory, not doped, so minor > variations > in shade I can overlook. Due to the differences in substances > applied some > leeway has to be expected, but major variances are not so easily > explained. I know off course that the cowlings was PAINTED, not doped. Also it is just a natural effect that humidity of air, temperature, consistance of paint and perhaps even the skill of the painter did have an influence on the tone of the finished cowling. That's why I stick to the theory that all F1s had factory painted standart cowlings because they look so similar. > As for how dark yellow prints on orthochromatic film, please look at the > photos of Jasta 10 aircraft in "Von Richthoven's Flying Circus" by Greg > VanWyngarden. Page 34 has pictures of Pfalz D.III 1370/17 which was > captured an documented EXTENSIVELY. The Green tail is reproduced in a > substantially lighter shade than the Yellow nose and struts! This is not > conjecture, this is done off of official RFC records on the aircraft's > markings. The yellow is produced in shades approximating those of black. > Taking a look at a known picture of Arthur Rahns Dr.1, which had its tail painted YELLOW + BLACK, one can clearly see that the yellow paint appears in a shade being darker than white but lighter than olive. It is far lighter than any olive cowling! So if only orthchromate films was used during that period of time how does it come that Rahns colors was reproduced correctly? And not only Rahns colors are correct - other Jasta 19 Triplanes show the colors correctly displayed too. Now I am curious to learn under what conditions yellow turned dark. > Also, as far as F.1 101/17 and the "solid color" nose you mention on the > website, that is bare metal. The cowling and upper deck on that aircraft > were left in bare metal in that and several other photos as seen in Alex > Imrie's "The Fokker Triplane" pg 18 and 19 show this aircraft with these > surfaces unpainted. I agree with you on that. I had the impression first that the cowling was bare metal but then I saw that the cowling on the other picture shows excactly the same surface structure so I believed that the cowling appeared that light colored due to reflections of light. Perhaps this cowling was painted later, its structure still shining through on the photograph? Another point of interest is the fact that > the landing > gear struts were finished in a dark color, probably olive or > whatever green > you want to associate with Fokker, It is not ME who associates colors with Fokker - it was recorded how the parts was finished. whereas the photos on the > website and on > pg 22 picture 23 in Imries book clearly show that F.1 103/17 had light > colored struts at one time, along with the inside surface of the wheels. > The picture below shows the struts and in a dark shade, > indicating that they > had been painted. Now I ask, is it logical that a mechanic who supposedly > doesn't have enough time to paint these items Yellow magically has time to > paint them Green? Especially whern he knows he is going to be required to > paint them yellow to meet with squadron marking standards at a > later time... > I don't buy that for a minute. Well, examining more pics of triplanes I noticed that sometimes struts appear to be painted in light color while they in fact are finished gloss. The glossy surface reflects a lot of light, especially when the photographs was taken in bright sunlight which appears to be a light color on the photograph later. Looking at the struts on pics of the same aircraft taken under different conditions, different angles or different light exposure of the film reveals different color shades. Best example are the two pics of Voss' plane that I posted. On the picture where mechanics start the engine the wheel struts appear to be painted in a very light color while on the other picture where the engine is running the same struts appear to be dark. This on an aircraft where both pictures was taken shortly one after the other. How does that come? > Paint the cowling whatever color you want, but don't try to act like those > who say that the cowling was yellow, haven't thought about the situation. Huh! I did NOT support the theory of a yellow cowling but only added my 0.2 to the discussion, trying to explain why it is sounding more logical to me that the cowling was painted just olive, and nothing else. When I compare the difference of the tones of yellow and white on Rahns Dr1 and when I then compare the light colored dragon face with the dark cowling it is sounding unlikely to me that the cowling was painted yellow. This counts for the known pictures of Voss' Triplane that I posted or saw anywhere else but it DOES NOT necessarily mean that I refuse to accept that the cowling was repainted chromate yellow shortly before Voss' last sortie. I am quite sure that they did not make a picture on everytime something changed on the look of an aircraft. If Voss would have returned we would have the evidence of the color of his cowling now. > Karl Timm was Voss' mechanic and he said it was yellow, and he was there > working on the ONLY Triplane in the Jasta. I think if I were him, I'd > remember that little detail on a one of a kind plane, flown by a one of a > kind pilot... I would appreciate if you could please give me your source of information. I have no records on statements given by Voss' mechanics or other. > > Just my .02 Thank you for your opinion! It's a pleasure to discuss this topic with the list members, altough it wasn't ME who started the discussion so there is no need to sound so unfriendly. sincerely Gaston Graf Webmaster of the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" http://www.jastaboelcke.de PS: Checking the book "The Jasta Pilots" for details about the colors of Jasta 10, Voss' triplane is mentionned to have had a chromate yellow cowling. But it is not mentionned WHEN it was painted yellow. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Webmaster Jasta Boelcke > To: Multiple recipients of list > Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 5:13 AM > Subject: Voss's Triplane: RUDDER PICTURES ARE NOW ONLINE AT THE JASTA > BOELCKE WEBSITE > > > >Dear list members, > > > >following the discussion about the color of Voss' Triplanes rudder and > >cowling I offered Dave Watts to send me his photographs to post > them at my > >website so he can share them with all of us. The pictures are now online. > >Please click on the red DISCUSSION button in the left frame to load the > >page. More b/w pictures will be added soon. > > > >thank you for visiting Jasta Boelcke > > > >Gaston Graf > >Webmaster of the Royal Prussian Fighter Squadron 2 "Boelcke" > >http://www.jastaboelcke.de > > > > > > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2566 **********************