WWI Digest 2558 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Rib tapes & Ceramacoat by pugs99@att.net 2) RE: Morane AI cockpits by Shane Weier 3) Re: Rib tapes & Ceramacoat by "Bob Pearson" 4) Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again by Lyle Lamboley 5) Re: Kids and Models by MAnde72343@aol.com 6) Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again by "Tom Solinski" 7) Re: New Kit Survey by Otisgood@aol.com 8) Re: Rib tapes & Ceramacoat by KarrArt@aol.com 9) Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again by Albatrosdv@aol.com 10) Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again by MAnde72343@aol.com 11) Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again by "P. Howard" 12) Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again by MAnde72343@aol.com 13) Re: Kids and Models by K129000@aol.com 14) Naval Camel by MAnde72343@aol.com 15) Re: New Kit Survey by K129000@aol.com 16) Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again by "P. Howard" 17) Camels by MAnde72343@aol.com 18) Re: Albatros C.V/17 images by "S Karver" 19) Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again by Dave Watts 20) Re: Basic Chemistry (Was Future) by KarrArt@aol.com 21) Re: Future and WWI vs WWII vs Jets and other things by KarrArt@aol.com 22) Re: Basic Chemistry by KarrArt@aol.com 23) Re: Future and WWI vs WWII vs Jets by "Michael S. Alvarado" 24) Re: Austrian Fabric. by "David Calhoun" 25) Re: Morane AI cockpits by KarrArt@aol.com 26) Re: Future and WWI vs WWII vs Jets by Albatrosdv@aol.com 27) Re: New Kit Survey by Ernest Thomas 28) Modeling From Scratch by K129000@aol.com 29) Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again by David Fleming 30) Re: Modeling From Scratch by smperry@mindspring.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 02:17:35 +0000 From: pugs99@att.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Rib tapes & Ceramacoat Message-ID: <20000818021740.SMEC13787.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Hi All, A couple of questions: Has anyone tried airbrushing Ceramacoat? I have a couple of craft stores in my area that carry them and as the line of colors is quite extensive, I have been thinking about giving them a try. A suggestion wasd made to try thinning with Future. Second, can anyone help with the width of rib tapes in 1/72 scale and 1/48th? Also, what type of decal or other material do folks use? I have just finished an Eduard D-V and now want to bring a Hawk Nieuport 17!!!! up to standard. I have sanded the wings flat, corrected them and now need to add ribs. Any help is appreciated. Happy Modeling, John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:26:46 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Morane AI cockpits Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7115D4FF@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Dave V > Long time no post --- has everybody been playing nicely since > I've been away? How many Daves do we have now? Camel - meet Dave...... OOOOWWWWWWWWWWW..... ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. E-Mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:26:50 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Rib tapes & Ceramacoat Message-ID: <200008180237.TAA06771@mail.rapidnet.net> > Has anyone tried airbrushing Ceramacoat? I have a couple > of craft stores in my area that carry them and as the > line of colors is quite extensive, I have been thinking > about giving them a try. A suggestion wasd made to try > thinning with Future. Yup .. I've been using them in my models for the last year. ... thinning with Future or water works. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:30:46 -0400 From: Lyle Lamboley To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again Message-ID: <20000817.223049.-251275.6.lyle.lamboley@juno.com> Tom, Please forgive bringing this up again but.... there was a recent post that implied "new material" to support the yellow camp. (For newbies, there is a long running "discussion" of the correct color for Voss' F-I being OD as it came from the factory or yellow, turned dark by ortho film. And the subject occasionally rubs some members' hides quite thin.) Anyway, I'm sitting here looking at a beautiful 5-1/2 X 8 of the aircraft in "Aces High" p114, and I cannot distinguish a shading difference between the face painted cowl and the rest of the aircraft. I lean to the green camp for the following: The aircraft was a prototype undergoing field testing. The aircraft's entire service life was 28 August to 23 September 1917. Except for the face there wasn't a whole lot of time to repaint the aircraft. Lastly if you wanted a face to stand out on a yellow cowl you wouldn't paint it white. Can the individual that hinted at "new data" supporting the yellow cowl please present the data. TIA Tom S OKC If you aren't making waves, you aren't making headway! All correct conclusions to the problems with this ortho film, but here's another ditty to trouble the waters a little more: In Revell's High in the Empty Blue, on pg. 148, he recounts an action between 56th Squadron RFC and Jasta 10 on September 6, 1917. One of the members, 1st Lt. Robert Sloley, said that one of the triplanes (McCudden reported seeing two; these were no doubt the two FIs) was painted yellow and brown. Now, how does one come up with yellow if a plane is in its stock factory colors, which for this one was the olive dope and turquoise on the top and turquoise on the bottom? I know how inaccurate most reports were concerning colors of enemy aircraft, but it certainly is something worth noting (in case this report hasn't been mentioned among this august body). If anyone wants a copy of this page, I can send it to them off list. Lyle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:36:43 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Kids and Models Message-ID: I loved that game too, but when I updated my computer, it wouldn't work; bought RBII, It's too realistic, as an old fart, I don't have the reflexes to play it. Curious, it was the board game "Red Baron," played with 1/72 models, that got me started modeling W.W.I, a bad case of I can do better than that, followed by serious addiction. Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:46:33 -0500 From: "Tom Solinski" To: Subject: Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again Message-ID: <002601c008be$84e54400$12330e18@okc1.ok.home.com> . Now, how does one come up with yellow if a plane is in its > stock factory colors, which for this one was the olive dope and turquoise > on the top and turquoise on the bottom? I know how inaccurate most > reports were concerning colors of enemy aircraft, but it certainly is > something worth noting (in case this report hasn't been mentioned among > this august body). Another point. Again in Aces High, Voss' final flight and fight was at sunset. The sun glinting off of the doped finish could have left a strong impression of yellow. And it appears that this was Voss' practice to hunt alone at twilight to catch the silhouettes of the allied aircraft as they flew westward to home. Tom S ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:45:57 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New Kit Survey Message-ID: <68.68abd65.26cdfd65@aol.com> In a message dated 8/16/00 10:56:28 PM Central Daylight Time, ethomas6@bellsouth.net writes: > What? the E-III, or the affordable? Both! But if I had to choose I'll take the E-III over affordable. I have yet to let a little money stand in the way of a good model (but don't tell my wife). Otis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:45:55 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Rib tapes & Ceramacoat Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/00 7:20:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pugs99@att.net writes: << Has anyone tried airbrushing Ceramacoat? I have a couple of craft stores in my area that carry them and as the line of colors is quite extensive, I have been thinking about giving them a try. A suggestion wasd made to try thinning with Future. >> Yep- it works pretty good, I usually thin with just water, although lately I've been using Future sometimes. I've airbrush models and paintings with Ceramcoat. Head over to: http://members.aol.com/karrart/index.htm You can see a whole slew of thing done with Ceramcoat! RK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:47:29 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again Message-ID: <31.909ed13.26cdfdc1@aol.com> In a message dated 8/17/00 8:47:37 PM EST, tskio4@home.com writes: << The aircraft's entire service life was 28 August to 23 September 1917. = Except for the face there wasn't a whole lot of time to repaint the = aircraft. >> See??? An FAA aviation specialist agrees! People who understand how airplanes are operated and *used* can see this clearly. This is the strongest argument against the yellow cowl business. As I said the last time this came up, no ace who is out to make a name for himself (and Voss was that and more) is going to have his airplane made non-operational for a couple of days just to so a coat of paint can dry - the weather was such you flew when you could because you knew there were at least a couple days you couldn't for every day you could. I am absolutely certain that when his triplanes were being painted red, MvR had alternative triplanes available. Voss didn't have a spare. TC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:49:17 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again Message-ID: <84.9a22969.26cdfe2d@aol.com> Answer: Yellow TAIL, not cowling, as leader of Jasta 10 Voss might have had yellow somewhere on the plane; of course, it could have been CDL underneath? that's 'yellow,' and depending on the light, the angle of sight etc. Dicta Ira, do it the way you think it looks right, all the conjecture at this date is silly, I''ve done Voss Tripe three different ways, and they all looked ok. Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:52:26 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again Message-ID: <000f01c008bf$589e02a0$17928ece@phoward> Tom, The subject came up because of the passing of Bill Bacon, a firm "yellow camp" supporter. I don't build very many aces aircraft, as they are the most common paint schemes and the ones I grow bored with most quickly. I really don't care too much about which side of the color war someone is on, as most people can explain their position quite logically. The only reason this round started is because Bill Bacon was a friend who was passionate about this subject. This was the subject of one of our last conversations, and as such I'm building the model in the yellow scheme as a way to remember him. I know of no "new evidence" being thrown into the fray (though I could easily missed it if it was), so the happiness in the "olive camp" should rightfully be remain undiminished. I only wish the same could be said of our list without Bill. Regards, Paul H -----Original Message----- From: Tom Solinski To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, August 17, 2000 8:47 PM Subject: Sorry, the Voss cowling again >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C0088C.3CC28AC0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Please forgive bringing this up again but.... there was a recent post = >that implied "new material" to support the yellow camp. > >(For newbies, there is a long running "discussion" of the correct color = >for Voss' F-I being OD as it came from the factory or yellow, turned = >dark by ortho film. And the subject occasionally rubs some members' = >hides quite thin.) > >Anyway, I'm sitting here looking at a beautiful 5-1/2 X 8 of the = >aircraft in "Aces High" p114, and I cannot distinguish a shading = >difference between the face painted cowl and the rest of the aircraft. = >I lean to the green camp for the following:=20 >The aircraft was a prototype undergoing field testing. >The aircraft's entire service life was 28 August to 23 September 1917. = >Except for the face there wasn't a whole lot of time to repaint the = >aircraft. >Lastly if you wanted a face to stand out on a yellow cowl you wouldn't = >paint it white. > >Can the individual that hinted at "new data" supporting the yellow cowl = >please present the data. > >TIA >Tom S >OKC >If you aren't making waves, you aren't making headway! > >------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C0088C.3CC28AC0 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
Please forgive bringing this up again = >but.... there=20 >was a recent post that implied "new material" to support the yellow=20 >camp.
>
 
>
(For newbies, there is a long running = >"discussion"=20 >of the correct color for Voss' F-I being OD as it came from the factory = >or=20 >yellow, turned dark by ortho film.   And the subject = >occasionally rubs=20 >some members' hides quite thin.)
>
 
>
Anyway, I'm sitting here looking at a = >beautiful=20 >5-1/2 X 8 of the aircraft in "Aces High" p114, and I cannot distinguish = >a=20 >shading difference between the face painted cowl and the rest of the=20 >aircraft.  I lean to the green camp for the = >following: 
>
The aircraft was  a prototype = >undergoing field=20 >testing.
>
The aircraft's entire service life was = >28 August to=20 >23 September 1917.  Except for the face there wasn't a whole lot of = >time to=20 >repaint the aircraft.
>
Lastly if you wanted a face to stand = >out on a=20 >yellow cowl you wouldn't paint it white.
>
 
>
Can the individual that hinted at "new = >data"=20 >supporting the yellow cowl please present the data.
>
 
>
TIA
>
Tom S
OKC
If you aren't making = >waves, you=20 >aren't making headway!
> >------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C0088C.3CC28AC0-- > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:53:52 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again Message-ID: <97.98d21eb.26cdff40@aol.com> TC, Voss was just coming back from the Hospital, or did you forget? Plenty of time for the unit proud Jasta 10 ground crews to slap on some unit color. Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:06:14 EDT From: K129000@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Kids and Models Message-ID: <18.126a29d.26ce0226@aol.com> In a message dated 00-08-17 22:38:51 EDT, you write: << I loved that game too, but when I updated my computer, it wouldn't work; bought RBII, It's too realistic, as an old fart, I don't have the reflexes to play it. Curious, it was the board game "Red Baron," played with 1/72 models, that got me started modeling W.W.I, a bad case of I can do better than that, followed by serious addiction. Merrill >> I have an old DX2 66mhz at home that will run RB1. I plan to have some fun with that in a few months. I have the mission builder so you can recreate neat senarios. Or do crazy things like take on 20 balloons (all over one artillary position) in a Fokker D.VIII (D.8). I also enjoyed hammering away at lumbering Gothas, in a SPAD XIII, that was fun. They added the Halberstadt D.3 (I think), The Siemens Schukert, and Nieuport 11 with the mission builder. The 11 wasn't done well at all. They just used the cockpit from the -17 (with the synchornized gun). Curiously the back of the box shows a slightly different game than IBM version. Was this a MAC version? I remember seeing the board game version of Red Baron, somewhere in a catelogue once. Board gaming kind of sounds like fun. K-129 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:06:30 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Naval Camel Message-ID: Nice job TC, I had thought to use the spare parts with old Monogram parts myself, but haven't finished Clay's Camel yet, I've been in Albatros land recently. Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:12:55 EDT From: K129000@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New Kit Survey Message-ID: <71.5eacca0.26ce03b7@aol.com> What about a military version of one of the Bleriot monoplanes? The Bleriot XI-3 (11-3) was an interesting beast. I believe the XI-BG stayed in service until 1915. K-129 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:14:02 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: Subject: Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again Message-ID: <002401c008c2$61e2b920$17928ece@phoward> Tom, I've got fifteen years in aircraft maintenance, and I can tell you two unfailing things: No self respecting pilot is going to get into an aircraft that hasn't been thoroughly checked by maintenance, and no self respecting aircraft mechanic would allow the above to happen. Only an idiot would get into a prototype aircraft without a COMPLETE check of everything on the plane, especially the engine. Painting unit colors for recognition while the inspection was going on would probably be a normal function in the squadron, it most certainly is in today's USAF. Personally, I would find it comforting to know that in a fight, I would have the appropriate markings to keep my own comrades from putting a few rounds into the new type bird. Time between aircraft arrival when it was shot down is not a valid reason for saying any specific color is correct. Just because the pilots fly mostly in the daytime doesn't mean someone wasn't working on it at night. There wouldn't have been many "dawn" or "dusk" patrols without maintenance working the planes at night. My .02, Paul H Who still doesn't know who's right... -----Original Message----- From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, August 17, 2000 9:50 PM Subject: Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again >In a message dated 8/17/00 8:47:37 PM EST, tskio4@home.com writes: > ><< The aircraft's entire service life was 28 August to 23 September 1917. = > Except for the face there wasn't a whole lot of time to repaint the = > aircraft. >> > >See??? An FAA aviation specialist agrees! People who understand how >airplanes are operated and *used* can see this clearly. This is the >strongest argument against the yellow cowl business. As I said the last time >this came up, no ace who is out to make a name for himself (and Voss was that >and more) is going to have his airplane made non-operational for a couple of >days just to so a coat of paint can dry - the weather was such you flew when >you could because you knew there were at least a couple days you couldn't for >every day you could. I am absolutely certain that when his triplanes were >being painted red, MvR had alternative triplanes available. Voss didn't have >a spare. > >TC > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:16:55 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Camels Message-ID: <18.12313f2.26ce04a7@aol.com> One of my stalled projects is the BM Camel, I was going to do Hank Clay's 41st Aero Camel, but I have a question and would appreciate some opinions. Clay's camel, in both the Aeromaster and BM literature shows a red cowl and forward fuselage, but the Army Aviation Museum (at good old Mother Rucker) has the plane with a natural metal cowl and fuselage front, I respect the Army guys, I know they try hard to be right, anybody know who is right? Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:08:21 -0400 From: "S Karver" To: Subject: Re: Albatros C.V/17 images Message-ID: <200008180328.XAA23606@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Matthew Bittner, Sunday, August 13, 2000 11:26 AM wrote > These are excellent. Thanks for your solitary appreciation. >However, I would like to save them from disk if > you're agreeable, but PhotoPoint won't let me. I can only believe that aNet-wise citizen such as yourself has by now figured this one out, but in case not, and if others have had problems: In Netscape right-clicking on the opened html page to "View Image" strips out everything except the image, which can then be "Saved As..." an html page. Opened in an image-management application such such as MS Photo Editor will permit resaving as the graphics file of one's preference. Internet Explorer seems to offer saving the html image as the file type of one's choice directly. Hope that helps, Stef Final images in this series soon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:31:10 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again Message-ID: <200008180335.e7I3Zrw36956@ind.cioe.com> Hi all, I haven't caught all of the postings, but the rudder held by the Imperial War Museum is purported to be Voss', and it is painted yellow. Recently, there was another go around with experts placing probe-a-scopes, x-rays, ultraviolet lights, etc., and they could not find any traces of a Fokker werk number at the base of the rudder. It has been suggested that the werk number was "sand blasted" off by the elements therefore obliterating it. It was noted that the rudder had a undercoating of the light blue, which surprises me. I certainly would have thought the rudder would have been finished in CDL, than white, than the application of the cross. I asked Alex Imrie about this very thing two days ago, and he said they believe it to be Voss', but the lack of a werk number is of concern, and he stated that he has yet to have seen a photo of the triplane with a yellow tail, but it is also possible a photographer simply didn't capture it, before the aircraft demise. Best, Dave Watts At 10:55 PM 8/17/00 -0400, you wrote: >Answer: Yellow TAIL, not cowling, as leader of Jasta 10 Voss might have had >yellow somewhere on the plane; of course, it could have been CDL underneath? >that's 'yellow,' and depending on the light, the angle of sight etc. Dicta >Ira, do it the way you think it looks right, all the conjecture at this date >is silly, I''ve done Voss Tripe three different ways, and they all looked ok. >Merrill > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:44:16 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Basic Chemistry (Was Future) Message-ID: <12.1253c67.26ce0b10@aol.com> In a message dated 8/17/00 8:15:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mkendix@hotmail.com writes: << OK, but then when you are spraying, the medium that contains the acryllic paint is not dry and is carcinogenic? In other words, you are inhaling material whilst spraying that is carcinogenic? Michael >> I'm honestly not too worried about the carcinogenic properties of the various modeling substances. Exposure time is rather limited compared to guys who work with these substances day in day out all day for 40 years. I take precautions and I'm careful, but there are other more immediate dangers- some of these things will rot you liver and kidneys before cancer has a chance to get you. Even with acrylics, you still can get the particulates into your lungs. Liquitex artists acrylics that have cadmium (and some other pigments)have a warning not to spray. (I personally HATE spraying large amounts of white- I take a deep breath, spray a little, then go outside for awhile.) But again, exposure time and amount is limited. If I wasn't so sleepy right now, I could cough up the Latin phrase that means "all is poison, only dosage means anything". Just don't go around telling people that "RK says you can drink toluene with lunch!" RK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:44:15 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Future and WWI vs WWII vs Jets and other things Message-ID: <24.95ad768.26ce0b0f@aol.com> In a message dated 8/17/00 3:01:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nigel@rosnar.freeserve.co.uk writes: << And I was skimming through IM last night when I saw the article by Bucky Sheftall (who has some great models in the gallery) on how he used aluminium foil on an F84 (sorry about the ot mention, and sorry for confusing OT/ot earlier!) - see http://www.internetmodeler.com/apr2000/aviation/foiled_f84.htm. This really is amazing. >> Aside from the F-84, Bucky is amazingly on-topic! His website ( I can't recall the address right now)has some fabulous finger-breaking quality WW I stuff. RK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:44:15 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Basic Chemistry Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/00 1:46:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MSHANNON@tnrcc.state.tx.us writes: << This is termed a solution of 'solvated electrons', >> I think I saw those guys in concert once....but that's another story...anyway- thanks for this hardcore stuff. I love it, and it gives me food for thought and also allows me to me to gouge into the brain of a chemist buddy of mine, whos' been a great help over the last 47 years. I can show him something like what you've just written, and a couple of weeks later he'll come back with some kind of "Hmmmm, I've been thinking about paint lately....I wonder if you mixed this with that what would happen...." RK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:49:26 -0400 From: "Michael S. Alvarado" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Future and WWI vs WWII vs Jets Message-ID: <399CB245.1A51DC6C@bellatlantic.net> I've had extremely good results using Testor's metalizers sprayed over Future. The metalizers (especially the non-buffing flavors) have tremendous afinity for Future, so much so that buffable metalizer won't buff (or come off). I first spray a coat of future on the area to be "metalized", let it dry overnight (12-24 hours) then spray Testor's non-buffing aluminum or steel metalizer as a base coat. No need to seal. If ouy want to shine area up, mask normally and spray buffable metalizer or use SNJ powder over the non-buffing base. Buffed metalizer must be sealed with sealer, Glosscoat or more Future however if youndon't want it travel or rub off the basecoat. Anyway it works for me. Got very realistic effects using this technique for Aluminum lacquer finished F3F-1 and -2 fuselages and cowlings (un painted portion) and Testor's aluminum enamel for the aluminum doped wings. Alvie Brent.A.Theobald@seagate.com wrote: > Howdy! > > One of the limitations of Bare Metal Foil is getting it around complex > compound curves. I'm sure someone could get a piece of BMF to wrap around a > cowling as complex as the Fokker, but not me. It would require several > pieces carefully spliced. Paint might be the best answer here. BMF would be > fine for the turned bulkhead behind the engine though. > > Another drawback to BMF I thought of is shelf life. The adhesive does seem > to lose some of its tack if it gets old. I've not had any lift off an old > model. I've just found that BMF won't stick as well one might like to a new > model if the BMF has been sitting around for awhile. It's kinda spendy too. > I figure it might cost $20+ to foil an ot 48th B-58. But she'll look REAL > good. I wish I could find out where Hershey's gets their foil for Hershey's > Kisses. That material would be perfect. The other source is to use the > cheapest brand of kitchen foil you can find. The cheapest will generally be > the thinnest. > > Give BMF a shot. It takes a little practice, but the results are worth it. > > Later! > > Brent > > >> FWIW my favorite is Bare Metal Foil. I don't think it takes too much > more > >> time to foil a model than it does to SnJ it. I include all the prep time > >> for the SnJ into this guesstimation. Plus you can get a true grain in > the > >> foil and its tougher than any paint. Leading and trailing edges can be > >> difficult because of the high stress of handling. The dremel tool swirl > >> trick works best on foil too. I have been converted! I still use SnJ and > >> products like it, but foiling is the way for me. It looks like metal, > >> because it IS metal. > > >Thanks Brent, I wondered how to duplicate the Fokker machined metal > >look-I'll try it on my E-III. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:57:36 -0700 From: "David Calhoun" To: Subject: Re: Austrian Fabric. Message-ID: <00a401c008e1$98cb54a0$31093ccc@oemcomputer> Hi Dale, Mind sending me a scan as well? Thanks, Dave Calhoun -----Original Message----- From: Dale Beamish To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, August 17, 2000 1:03 PM Subject: Re: Austrian Fabric. >David >List member Mike Franklin does a "FANTASTIC" ALPS version!! >I'll send you a scan off list. >Dale > >> Does anyone put out sheets of that lovely swirly hand-printed fabric >> seen on Austrian Albatrossen in 1/48? I am not referring to the >Brumkowski >> Distribution marketed by A/G. I have that. >> >> >> TIA >> >> >> DB >> >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:03:35 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Morane AI cockpits Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/00 4:27:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dave@vga-graphics.com writes: << Hi, All Long time no post --- has everybody been playing nicely since I've been away? How many Daves do we have now? >> Dave V.! Good to have you back....oh yeah, there now 284 Daves on the list, if you count that one guy with three personalities, all named Dave. RK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:06:56 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Future and WWI vs WWII vs Jets Message-ID: Alvie is definitely right about using Future as a base for metallic paints. It seals all kinds of cracks, etc. However, be careful you are not spraying in conditions that allow it to come out too much as droplets - they will dry as such and you will not see them on the plastic surface until after you paint, at which time the undercoat's failings will become *very* apparent. If you don't have that happen, the result is very good. BTW - natural metal left under sunlight without protection has a tendency to go dead flat fast. Never ever did I see a*shiny* NMF on a 1:1, except for a couple of warbirds that had nice thick coatings of clear polyurethane over the polished surface. The only airplane I ever saw that didn't have poly-u over, the guy flew for an hour, landed and taxied fast directly into his hangar, where he then spent three hours polishing. So non-buffed metallic finishes are the realistic ones, while the buffed ones are the kind you only see on a model shelf. (Or when the Thunderbirds had 100 EMs to polish their Huns) TC Hey, Alvie, since you've been doing models of the coolest biplanes ever, shoot me a jpg or two off-list. I just finished the orange resin monstrosity (I bet less than half of them ever get finished). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:14:44 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: New Kit Survey Message-ID: <399CC644.FCCD338A@bellsouth.net> Graham Hunter wrote: > > No offence intended but the SE5a is an ugly plane... My MOTHER! was an SE5a!!! How about a beautiful > Nieuport 28 This would be good. E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:35:08 EDT From: K129000@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Modeling From Scratch Message-ID: Are there any good sites that tell you how to go from plastic card to a nice finished model? Just wondering how it could be done. K-129 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:36:08 +0100 From: David Fleming To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Sorry, the Voss cowling again Message-ID: <399CF577.1097975F@dial.pipex.com> Tom Solinski wrote: > > Lastly if you wanted a face to stand out on a yellow cowl you wouldn't = > paint it white. > That's assuming the face IS white, and not a dark colour which registers on ortho film as lighter, such as blue........... David (Stirring, with tongue firmly in cheek) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 05:07:18 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Modeling From Scratch Message-ID: <002b01c008f3$b6958020$f60156d1@default> > Are there any good sites that tell you how to go from plastic card to a nice > finished model? k; i don' know of any sites, however there is always The Gospel According to St..Harry aka Scale Model Aircraft in Plastic Card by Harry Woodman. Thanks to Peter Leonard's efforts I believe, this book is due for another printing and should be out in a few months. Otherwise, check your library and inquire about inter library loan. You should be able to get a copy. This is one book that is worth any efforts made to aquire a copy. hth sp ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2558 **********************