WWI Digest 2524 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: A Whiff of Grape by "DAVID BURKE" 2) The BIG Ortho question by "DAVID BURKE" 3) ot - but very cool! by "DAVID BURKE" 4) Flight Journal - Pfalz story by "DAVID BURKE" 5) How Many Models? by K129000@aol.com 6) Re: ot - but very cool! by K129000@aol.com 7) Re: ot - but very cool! by smperry@mindspring.com 8) RE: ot - but very cool! by "dfernet0" 9) Albatros three-color by "Mark Shannon" 10) Re: Albatros 3 colour wings by Peter Leonard 11) Re: Albatros 3 colour wings by Albatrosdv@aol.com 12) way ot but really interesting by Albatrosdv@aol.com 13) Re: Spider Training by Albatrosdv@aol.com 14) Re: ot - but very cool! by MAnde72343@aol.com 15) Osprey Books & Wing Attachment by pugs99@att.net 16) Re: ot - but very cool! by "Bob Pearson" 17) Re: Comments/recommendations re. Optivisor?? by huggins1@swbell.net (John Huggins) 18) Re: ot - but very cool! by "DAVID BURKE" 19) Nats question by "Matt Bittner" 20) Re: Albatros 3 colour wings by David Fleming 21) Cook up termonolgy by "Matt Bittner" 22) Re: ot - but very cool! by "Dale Sebring" 23) Re: ot - but very cool! by David Fleming 24) Re: ot - but very cool! by David Fleming 25) Re: 'Earlybirds' 1/72 Vacs by "Len Smith" 26) Re: ot - but very cool! by "Bob Pearson" 27) Re: ot - but very cool! by K129000@aol.com 28) l'Oiseau Blanc by K129000@aol.com 29) Re: Nugeseur was:ot - but very cool! (Actually he was OT and cool too) by smperry@mindspring.com 30) Re: Nats question by smperry@mindspring.com 31) Re: l'Oiseau Blanc by smperry@mindspring.com 32) Re: ot - but very cool! by Albatrosdv@aol.com 33) Re: ot - but very cool! by Albatrosdv@aol.com 34) Re: l'Oiseau Blanc by MAnde72343@aol.com 35) Re: ot - but very cool! by MAnde72343@aol.com 36) RE: Albatros 3 colour wings by "Tomasz Gronczewski" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 11:20:52 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: A Whiff of Grape Message-ID: <003d01c00154$ad96dd80$469baec7@com> Stop off en route and say 'hi' to Zorba for me - he owes me money (and dancing lessons!) DB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Leonard" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 5:46 AM Subject: A Whiff of Grape > > > I'm unsubbing for a couple of weeks while in Cyprus visiting my inlaws and my > grape vines (not necessarily in that order). There is only one model shop I know > of on the island so please sympathise and I'll see you all in a fortnight. > > yassas > > Petros L > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 11:23:51 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: The BIG Ortho question Message-ID: <004d01c00156$18aed4a0$469baec7@com> Hey Gang, There are you out there who are much more experienced than I. So tell me: was ALL of the film useed during WWI Ortho film? DB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 11:28:54 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <004e01c00156$19783f20$469baec7@com> Guys, I was looking at the news on the telly and saw something that I had heard rumblings about, but never thought that I'd ever see: they raised the sunken CSS Hunley from the Atlantic!! For those of you who don't know, the C.S.S. Hunley was an early human-powered submarine. It used a sort of mine on a boom which was attached to the bow of the boat. It went down in 1864 following a successful attack on a Union ship. It had a 9-man crew and it went down with all hands. Recently, TBS did a movie about her. Why is this so cool? Well, if this thing survived down there, imagine just what kind of OT goodies lie buried undersea and underground! Wow! DB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 11:31:20 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Flight Journal - Pfalz story Message-ID: <004f01c00156$1a4ad160$469baec7@com> Hey Gang! Pick up the latest issue of Flight Journal! There's a story about the Pfalz company with cool pics of Pfalz D.III, several of a D.XII, including a fuselage half under construction. And on the last page, there's a pic of some guy's barn FULL of old aero engines, props, etc. A gold mine! DB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 12:34:25 EDT From: K129000@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: How Many Models? Message-ID: <12.af6282.26c19091@aol.com> Hello, I was just curious, how many models have the people on this list built? I mean indivudually, not collectively as a whole. Does the average person have over 50, 100 etc?? The university I goto has a collection of 1000 (my estimate) tiny model aircraft on display in our small library. They are all to the same scale and are part of a collection of over 5000 total. The scale is something like 1 and 5/16in equals 100ft, or something to that effect. The LZ airship is only 2ft long, to put it in perspective. There is a nice WW1 section that I would like to get some photos of, and post on the web. It seems to have everything. Morane-Saulnier type-Ns, Nugeseur's Niueport, complete with a tiny black heart on its 1in-long fusulage. The models are hand crafted by the same person, out of balsa wood. Perhaps someday i could take out a digitial camera and post some pictures of them to the web. K-129 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 12:36:04 EDT From: K129000@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: In a message dated 00-08-08 12:33:04 EDT, you write: << Why is this so cool? Well, if this thing survived down there, imagine just what kind of OT goodies lie buried undersea and underground! Wow! >> I believe there is an effort to locate Charles Nugeseur's aircraft under the atlantic. He was lost during a crossing attept after the war. K-129 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 12:42:33 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <005d01c00157$a729f060$0a0356d1@default> they raised the > sunken CSS Hunley from the Atlantic The best part is that they will bury the remains of the crew with full Confederate Military Honors. sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 13:35:49 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <006d01c00156$b978f0a0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> > Why is this so cool? Well, if this thing survived down there, imagine > just what kind of OT goodies lie buried undersea and underground! Wow! The Lusitania, for instance. D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 11:45:57 -0500 From: "Mark Shannon" To: Subject: Albatros three-color Message-ID: There are some photos taken from square behind the aircraft where the wings and tail upper surfaces are clear and relatively under the same illumination. On at least one of these (which is in the Squadron/Signal "Albatros Fighters in Action") the upper wings appear to have three shades of camouflage on them in four(?) bands. While the photo cannot identify the colors, it is rather clearly showing a distinctly three shade combination. Unfortunately, none of the information indicates where in time or space the aircraft was constructed, delivered, and photographed. I don't have the wide variety of Albatros references, and none on the roughly contemporary Halberstadts, but the one photo is revealing, and others probably exist of the same marking for there to be a 'new standard' for Albatros D.III camo. .Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 18:24:26 +0100 From: Peter Leonard To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Albatros 3 colour wings Message-ID: <3990424A.E454E406@cwcom.net> afaik there is one report on one captured a/c which mentions the three colour scheme. All else appears to be built on that and the same black and white photos which for years were interpreted as two colour are now re-interpreted as three. You may gather I am a sceptic on this one cheers Peter L David Fleming wrote: > David Fleming wrote: > > C'mon folks-help a returning ot modeller- > > I, of course, meant OT modeller !! (Or did I - which is which my head hurts > !!) > > Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 13:29:43 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Albatros 3 colour wings Message-ID: In a message dated 8/8/00 10:53:12 AM EST, dfernet0@rosario.gov.ar writes: << IIRC, early Halberstadt and Roland fighters would also have had similar schemes. I don't know about two-seaters or bombers. >> The information I am looking at regarding the Halberstadts is that the camo was either nonexistant (i.e., CDL overall) or a variety of the streaky camo, or (appears to be more common) green/brown uppers with CDL lowers, and the camo is applied spanwise on wings and tail. I think this latter is what I will do on mine. TC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 13:37:53 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: way ot but really interesting Message-ID: The URL below has shots of the raising of C.S.S. "Hunley" this morning in Charleston harbor. First submarine to successfully sink its target (and it did not sink in the explosion, as was commonly thought for many years). http://www.wcsc.com/hunley/gallery.htm Page 2 has the more interesting shots. Cheers, TC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 13:40:09 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Spider Training Message-ID: In a message dated 8/8/00 11:22:19 AM EST, dora9@sprynet.com writes: << NO. Figger it out for your own self! There are some things a man will do himself only ONCE in his lifetime, and never do again, nor re-live the trauma. You want supplications and cusswords? Well, I am polite, so I always said 'please' first, and then insulted the components all the way back to their dinosaur ancestors; whose decaying and fermenting flesh the petroleum was rendered from in the first place. As for the metallic parts, well, I just called them 'stupid'. I insulted the thread and CA too. Me, I congratulated myself on my Godlike persistence and wisdom - and I wondered if creating Adam was so tricky. >> Sounds like you have now completed pusher biplane boot camp and are ready for the Aeroclub F.E.2b, DB. There's only 109" of rigging in that one! :-) TC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 14:22:36 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <6b.81d2c4e.26c1a9ec@aol.com> IIRC didn't they find N& C's plane in Nova Scotia, about ten years ago? Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 18:33:14 +0000 From: pugs99@att.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Osprey Books & Wing Attachment Message-ID: <20000808183316.LBDP14052.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Hi All, I just wanted to say thanks for all of the input and tips. I have ordered the Osprey Books. Apparently they have a Fokker D-VII and Fokker DR.I book in the works with more WWI titles to follow!!! The info on the wing attachments was also much appreciated. It will be nice to actually contribute one of these days and not just be asking questions!!! Thanks again!!! Happy Modeling, John Impenna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 12:02:05 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <200008081912.MAA05973@mail.rapidnet.net> Supposedly they actually landed in some swamp in the US And for the curious does K-129 refer to HMCS Agassiz, or did your parents have some strange naming ideas? regards, Bob (who's parents were rather ordinary in their naming) ---------- >From: K129000@aol.com >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! >Date: Tue, Aug 8, 2000, 9:40 am > > In a message dated 00-08-08 12:33:04 EDT, you write: > > << Why is this so cool? Well, if this thing survived down there, imagine > just what kind of OT goodies lie buried undersea and underground! Wow! > >> > > I believe there is an effort to locate Charles Nugeseur's aircraft under the > atlantic. He was lost during a crossing attept after the war. > > K-129 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 13:44:55 -0500 From: huggins1@swbell.net (John Huggins) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Comments/recommendations re. Optivisor?? Message-ID: I use the visor with the #4 lens, which has a focal length of about 8 to 10 inches and is a 2x magnification. I also have the loop attachment which adds another 2x magnification. I recently picked up the light attachment. At first, I thought this was a toy like device that someone dreamed up and probably would not use after the first day. What a surprise. The thing adds very little weight to the headband, has a bright adjustable light and in short, it does what it is supposed to do. They are advertised in the latest Squadron Supplement, and I would guess available any where the visors are sold. As a side note, there are several cheaper look alike visors out there. Stay with the ones made by Donegon Optical. They are the Cadillacs of the line and use optical ground lenses where the others don't. John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 14:23:19 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <007601c0016e$39649fa0$2f84aec7@com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 11:45 AM Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! > they raised the > > sunken CSS Hunley from the Atlantic > > The best part is that they will bury the remains of the crew with full > Confederate Military Honors. > > sp > Aww Great. Next thing you know, Maxine Watters, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and all of those retards will start bitching about it being 'a celebration of slavery' or some such horse-shash. I ALREADY have a headache. DB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 14:28:37 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Nats question Message-ID: <200008081929.MAA04564@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Okay, I've been trying to figure this one out, along with a few others. What took second at the Nats in 1/72nd bipes? It was *not* Hustad's W.4, although most people I talk to think it was. Any clues out there? Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 20:33:36 +0100 From: David Fleming To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Albatros 3 colour wings Message-ID: <3990608F.DBF3EC51@dial.pipex.com> DAVID BURKE wrote: > Hey David, > > All in all, the only help that you are probably gonna get is in various > > reference books, the instructions to your particular kit, and photos. Aside > from that, you're on your own. > > OF COURSE: you can tell us what type you are doing and what the serial > number is and we can all see what info we have. > That, Mr Burke, is a very valid point !! Actually, since posting this Pm, I discovered more about one of my choices !! I had a copy of Flight from June 28 1917 which showed DI 391/16 in RFC markings (This being by my reckoning one of the pre production DIs). Now I had long suspected this was actually repainted PC10, but could have been in dark red/brown (I reckoned it was too early for the 3 tone). I then, while looking through the SS In Action found a picture of 391/17 in German markings, much different to it's RFC colours, which I now reckon are PC10 uppers, CDL unders (as per early D1s) and Battleship grey metal panels. It even has an RFC style serial !! (Where is that Pegasus sheet?) That's one down !! My other choice is the same but different ! This is the early DII illustrated in SS In Action on page 12, and in Datafile 11 on page 21. RR suggests this is painted PC-10, and it may have been by the time the Datafile pic were taken, but the SS ones certainly suggest a unpainted fuselage. Also, the DF pictures appear to show a cam pattern on the wing. If it is PC10 in the dF, then it's a poor coat. Shades of Fokker Green over CDL ! That would look different ! Streaky PC-10 over varnished ply & green/brown/light green !! Unfortunately, nobody gives an ID for the plane, other than suggesting it may be 'G33', but it's an early DII with the 'ear' radiators. If it is G33, it was captured on 5/5/17 (Or it could be D473/16 (G32) captured on 3/5/17). And for anyone who says I have a sad obsession with captured Albatros, then you're probably right !! At least Pfalz & Fokkers are easier to work out the colours !! Yours obsessively David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 14:36:32 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Cook up termonolgy Message-ID: <200008081937.MAA01502@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Has anyone really looked at the cook up's funny side? I like these two the best: ' An excellent kit from Merlin' - I've been drinking. 'WW1 Enthusiasts will love this' - Yeah, only them, and we know what loonies they are. I hear Graham Chapman on that last one... Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 14:00:11 -0600 From: "Dale Sebring" To: Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <003701c00173$4393cb40$76b58dd0@main> ----- Original Message ----- From: "DAVID BURKE" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 11:45 AM > Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! > > > > they raised the > > > sunken CSS Hunley from the Atlantic > > > > The best part is that they will bury the remains of the crew with full > > Confederate Military Honors. > > > > sp > > > > Aww Great. > > Next thing you know, Maxine Watters, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and all > of those retards will start bitching about it being 'a celebration of > slavery' or some such horse-shash. I ALREADY have a headache. > > > DB > Amen, DB Dale Sebring-I think the newest Dale??? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 20:54:27 +0100 From: David Fleming To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <39906573.E0583B0D@dial.pipex.com> dfernet0 wrote: > > Why is this so cool? Well, if this thing survived down there, imagine > > just what kind of OT goodies lie buried undersea and underground! Wow! > > The Lusitania, for instance. > D. IIRC, the same guy who found the Titanic, Robert Ballard, also did a survey of the Lusitania, with particular rference to the 'arms carrier' theory. His theory, based on an examination of where she was ruptured (Unfortunately she's lying on her side) was that the major explosion after the torpedo hit was due to the Torp explosion being in the almost empty coal bunkers (There is a trail of coal to the wreck). Coal dust is highly explosive in certain conditions, particularly confined ones. This, he reckoned, would have torn a hole almost the length of her hull. There is a book on his Liner expeditions (He also did Olympic & Brittannic, also OT). David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 20:58:19 +0100 From: David Fleming To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <3990665B.A8C2AC77@dial.pipex.com> DAVID BURKE wrote: > > > Why is this so cool? Well, if this thing survived down there, imagine > just what kind of OT goodies lie buried undersea and underground! Wow! > > The Dutch pulled bits of a Gotha out of the polders in the 60s, so there must be more in there ! And who knows what Russia may hold ? We just need to wait until the warbird hunters are finished !! David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 20:17:51 +0100 From: "Len Smith" To: Subject: Re: 'Earlybirds' 1/72 Vacs Message-ID: <000201c00174$c1755460$ae857ed4@mesh> David, The following extract from Windsock Volume 4 No.3 may clarify the position:- "New home for Libramodels. As briefly announced in the Summer issue , Akita have acquired the entire Libramodels range, including the Scaleplanes and Earlybirds collections. The programme for Libramodels, Scaleplanes and Earlybirds (ex Formaplane) products should meet with approval from all WW1 modelling enthusiasts." Also mentioned are the planned future releases of Ilya Mourometz , Nieuports 24, 27 and29, Martinsyde F4, Maurice Farmans 7 and 11 and Ufag C.I. If only.............!!!!! The history of the early British vacform industry still has to be written, it appears to be more complicated than I first thought. Regards Len. lensmith@clara.net http://home.clara.net/lensmith ----- Original Message ----- From: David Fleming To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 2:32 PM Subject: 'Earlybirds' 1/72 Vacs > Whilst looking through an old Scale Models International (March 88), I > found an advert from Libramodels announcing the release of 5 1/72 vacs > under the title of 'Earlybirds'. The kits were: > > Albatros BII (2 marking options) > BE2C (4 marking options) > Handriot HD1 (3 marking options) > Halberstadt CLII (2 marking options) > Nieuport Nie 12 (3 marking options) > > They were listed with decals 7 metal parts. > > Does anyone know if these were released, because I cannot remember > actually seeing them. I know the Libramodels/Scaleplanes moulds went to > ED Models. > > David > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 13:48:11 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <200008082102.OAA09856@mail.rapidnet.net> > There is a book on his Liner expeditions (He also did Olympic & Brittannic, also > OT). And Empress of Ireland (IIRC) which had a higher loss of life than Titanic, yet remains largely unknown Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:00:21 EDT From: K129000@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: In a message dated 00-08-08 15:04:29 EDT, you write: << And for the curious does K-129 refer to HMCS Agassiz, or did your parents have some strange naming ideas? >> My real name is Chris. K-129 is what I use on the Net. It refers to the name of the Soviet submarine raised from the pacific in 1974. The Hull number was K-129 K-129 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:11:56 EDT From: K129000@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: l'Oiseau Blanc Message-ID: <22.9a17b55.26c1d19c@aol.com> http://www.tighar.org/Projects/PMG.html Here is info on the disapearance of CN K-129 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:19:04 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Nugeseur was:ot - but very cool! (Actually he was OT and cool too) Message-ID: <003501c0017e$47facde0$090c56d1@default> > I believe there is an effort to locate Charles Nugeseur's aircraft under the > atlantic. He was lost during a crossing attept after the war. I believe they pretty well determined they (Coli too) made it across and went down in the Maine woods. I read (Aviation History?) some time back that they had interviewed several people living in the area at the time and many heard an aircraft engine in the fog at approximately the correct time. (Aircraft engines were still unusual sounds in the 1920s). Some fellow is supposed to have dug up a corroded chunk of engine & wood from the area. The article said the current evidence was not conclusive, but left the impression that it very well could have been Nungeseur & Coli's plane. I have always kept an ear open to hear more, but haven't run across any further references. I also heard he had his black heart emblem painted on the trans Atlantic plane sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:24:07 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Nats question Message-ID: <004301c0017e$fcfe3880$090c56d1@default> Hi Matt: Did I understand you to say Hustad did a W.4? Are there any photos of this model? I have to know, cause I did one I'm real proud of (Two 1st place awards). I gotta see how it stacks up to the Master. I'm back on a 1:72 project again. Omega Farman F.30bis in resin. (And DB thinks rigging a BM DH.2 is rough ;-) Regards sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:30:47 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: l'Oiseau Blanc Message-ID: <005501c0017f$eafe90c0$090c56d1@default> Dang, I seem to have remembered most of the stuff right. Thanks for the refernce. sp ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: l'Oiseau Blanc > http://www.tighar.org/Projects/PMG.html > > Here is info on the disapearance of CN > > K-129 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:29:49 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: In a message dated 8/8/00 2:26:23 PM EST, dora9@sprynet.com writes: << > > The best part is that they will bury the remains of the crew with full > Confederate Military Honors. > > sp > Aww Great. Next thing you know, Maxine Watters, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and all of those retards will start bitching about it being 'a celebration of slavery' or some such horse-shash. I ALREADY have a headache. DB >> You guys are the ones who fought for the logical inconsistency of the freedom to be slaveowners. Not wanting to re-fight the Civil War here I will say that my Union ancestors would all quite likely approve of this, warriors to warriors. TC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:45:25 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: In a message dated 8/8/00 3:56:05 PM EST, bpearson@rapidnet.net writes: << And Empress of Ireland (IIRC) which had a higher loss of life than Titanic, yet remains largely unknown >> There's a documentary making the rounds on PBS, "Lost Liners," by Ballard, which covers the expeditions to the Lusitania, Britannic and Empress of Ireland - those of us not Canadian don't know of this last one, but it was a very tragic event. TC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:46:31 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: l'Oiseau Blanc Message-ID: <2b.928f5aa.26c1d9b7@aol.com> If the plane did go into a fresh water pond, cold fresh water preserves things pretty well,( they were able to retrieve quite a bit of wood from 18th century shipwrecks in the Great Lakes) so maybe the white bird will be found. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:48:21 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ot - but very cool! Message-ID: <60.5cb81d6.26c1da25@aol.com> Does anyone remember the Hunley model at quayside in FSM a while back? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 23:50:06 +0200 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: RE: Albatros 3 colour wings Message-ID: Hi David, Late Albatros D.Is, Albatros D.IIs and first series of Albatros D.IIIs had three colour camo indeed. The colours were light green, dark green and brown. But various Albatros subsidiaries used various shades. At least two combinations were observed: light (apple?) green + rich dark green + burnt sienna; pale green + olive green + red brown. The latter scheme became predominant togehter with D.IIIs appearance. Initialy there were five bands on the top wing eg. OG/PG/RB/PG/OG but somewhere in the mid production of D.II scouts it was replaced by simpler three bands camo, eg. PG/OG/RB. It is known that three colour scheme was used on early Fokker biplane scouts but it was a result of applying olive and red-brown patches over overall CDL finish rather (eg. Kissenberth's and Gruenzweig's Fokker D.IIs. In April 1917, due to more common green-brown camouflage usage on Allied aircraft German Idflieg ordered to replace red-brown shade with much more violet mauve. Therefore at least re-painted aircraft carried pale-green + olive green + dark mauve camouflage. It is now known that just after April 1917 OAW subsidiary had no mauve in stocks and used two green shades only to camouflage their D.IIIs. Later new simplified two tone light green + dark mauve camouflage might have been implemented but there is no proven evidence of that. HTH Tom ---------R---E---K---L---A---M---A---------- SMS - dobra rada, gdy ma zajete ciagle gada. http://www.eragsm.com.pl/oferta/sms.htm ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2524 **********************