WWI Digest 2485 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: I'm back by "DAVID BURKE" 2) DH2 internal cockpit views by "P. Howard" 3) Re: I'm back by KarrArt@aol.com 4) Re: the nats by KarrArt@aol.com 5) Re: IPMS-Dallas Day 4 by KarrArt@aol.com 6) Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats by KarrArt@aol.com 7) Re: IPMS-Dallas Day 4 by Lee Mensinger 8) RE: IPMS-Dallas Day 4 by Shane Weier 9) Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats by Albatrosdv@aol.com 10) Re: IPMS-Dallas Day 4 by Lee Mensinger 11) Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats by huggins1@swbell.net (John Huggins) 12) Re: Candice Sopwith Pup Project by "David C. Fletcher" 13) Re: Matt & Allan by Allan Wright 14) Bristol Scout by "Alberto Casirati" 15) Re: Bristol Scout by "Bob Pearson" 16) Answer to your judging problems by David Solosy 17) aeroclub models by Witold Kozakiewicz 18) Re: Award clarification by Witold Kozakiewicz 19) Re: Answer to your judging problems by "Matt Bittner" 20) Judging & future nats./was: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats by "Michael Kendix" 21) Re: I'm back by Ernest Thomas 22) Roland C.II by "Matt Bittner" 23) Re: Roland C.II by "Bob Pearson" 24) Re: Bristol Scout by "cameron rile" 25) Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats by Lee Mensinger 26) Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats by Brian.Nicklas@nasm1.si.edu 27) Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats by "Lance Krieg" 28) Re: Bristol Scout by "cameron rile" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:10:50 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: I'm back Message-ID: <001001bff5ee$5347cfe0$6689aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Uhh, I think you want to talk to your agents. This ain't up to me... DB -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Thomas To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Monday, July 24, 2000 10:10 PM Subject: Re: I'm back > > >DAVID BURKE wrote: >> >> How your SPAD warnt entered. > >WHAT??? Why not? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:40:00 -0500 From: "P. Howard" To: "WWI Post" Subject: DH2 internal cockpit views Message-ID: <004901bff5f2$65bae0a0$699d8ece@phoward> Last week I asked if anyone knew of any cockpit photos of the DH2 facing aft. I got a quick reply that what I needed was in the Squadron In Action book, but unfortunately what I need is not there. I need a photo of the control stick and the seat arrangement facing aft. If anyone can tell me where I might find this find this info, I'd be greatly appreciative. Thanks, Paul H ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:44:26 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: I'm back Message-ID: In a message dated 7/24/00 6:09:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ethomas6@bellsouth.net writes: << Howdy All, Well, I've built all the models I needed to build for the deadlines they needed to be built by and I'm back on the list. >> I grunt in your honor.....which I suppose beats sneezing in your soup Welcome back you wascally wabbit! RK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:44:27 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: the nats Message-ID: To every one who has reported on the Nats (gnats?)...Thanks! It's been neat reading all about the good times I missed. RK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:44:30 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: IPMS-Dallas Day 4 Message-ID: In a message dated 7/24/00 9:10:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, iceman1@hiwaay.net writes: << The Grand Award for the convention went to a collection of 5 early Curtiss aero motors in 1/72 scale. The only on-topic one was the OX-5. >> Ther was also a Hispano-Suiza engine in that microbic collection....amazing stuff. RK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:44:30 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats Message-ID: In a message dated 7/24/00 5:01:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Albatrosdv@aol.com writes: << A further point: I remember the first time I met RK, at the ValleyCon V show, back in 1995. He didn't know that much about how to compete with the Muddlers, so he took his scratchbuilt 1/32 B.E.2c and plopped it in the back row of the "vacuform and scratchbuilt" category. >> That was my very first contest! Jeez, It took me long enough to enter one of those things...after all, I'd been modeling (let's make that "building models") for over thirty years at that point. RK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:21:45 -0500 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: IPMS-Dallas Day 4 Message-ID: <397D23E9.8BA9ACE7@x25.net> I wonder if the Grand Award Curtiss engines were made by Bob Davies? He had some really good ones a couple months back. Lee M KarrArt@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/24/00 9:10:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > iceman1@hiwaay.net writes: > > << > The Grand Award for the convention went to a collection of 5 early Curtiss > aero > motors in 1/72 scale. The only on-topic one was the OX-5. >> > > Ther was also a Hispano-Suiza engine in that microbic collection....amazing > stuff. > RK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:25:15 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: IPMS-Dallas Day 4 Message-ID: <7186131CB805D411A60E0090272F7C7115D423@mimhexch1.mim.com.au> Lee, > I wonder if the Grand Award Curtiss engines were made by Bob > Davies? He had > some really good ones a couple months back. > Yes, and there's talk on r.m.s (In other words idle speculation) that he's building multiples of one of them for a scratchbuilt aircraft model requiring four. Given that there are supposedly 500+ pieces in one of them, he's got a lot of work to do... Pics of the entry are at http://www.chromaconcepts.com/nats_update/page1.htm Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. E-Mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 01:50:17 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats Message-ID: <92.7c5b4cd.26ae8499@aol.com> In a message dated 7/24/00 8:00:15 PM EST, huggins1@swbell.net writes: << I do resent the tone of the message. Been judging for a long time and I did not judge that category, but if you had asked the judges (they all signed the category marker) they would have been able to explain why it went that way. >> I have seen waaaaaaaaay too many prizes go to modelers who completely *failed* at "basics first" as regards things like fogged canopies, silvered decals, etc., etc., etc., models with pristine workmanship that were totally *wrong* because no research was done (that, to me is a Big Basic), to ever take IPMS "judging" seriously. The one thing those "winners" seemed to have going for them was "geography first," i.e., they were "locals." The day two out of the box AMT A-20s take first and second (nice decal jobs) over RK's 1/32 scratchbuilt Gotha G.IV in "aircraft muilti engine 1/48 and larger" and *both* A-20s come from the local club putting on the show, there was no "basics first" going on there, and that was not judging that can be respected. I have never visited that club's show again. I am not going to revisit this particular judging swamp further. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 01:07:36 -0500 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: IPMS-Dallas Day 4 Message-ID: <397D2EA8.2E021F3B@x25.net> I saw one with over 600 pieces. He is a good friend of mine but he lives almost 100 miles away so it is not a daily meeting or even close to that often. His work just shy of unbelievable since people would not want to believe till they see them and then it is overwhelming.. Lee M. Shane Weier wrote: > Lee, > > > I wonder if the Grand Award Curtiss engines were made by Bob > > Davies? He had > > some really good ones a couple months back. > > > > Yes, and there's talk on r.m.s (In other words idle speculation) that he's > building multiples of one of them for a scratchbuilt aircraft model > requiring four. > > Given that there are supposedly 500+ pieces in one of them, he's got a lot > of work to do... > > Pics of the entry are at > > http://www.chromaconcepts.com/nats_update/page1.htm > > Shane > > ************************************************************** > The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential > and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). > If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution > or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are > requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems > to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. > E-Mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. > ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 02:24:30 -0500 From: huggins1@swbell.net (John Huggins) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats Message-ID: >Tom, >Lance was much more graceful regarding the unfortunate outcome of the >judging than you are being right now. It is my opinion that his W12 was the best model on the table and I have told him so. >snip > > I judged at the Nats this year and I can tell you that when all of the >models are good, some categories take hours to judge. One of the categories >I judged in (1/51 and smaller Conversions) took us an hour and fifteen >minutes, and there were several categories that took longer by far. I hardly >think that this type of patience and care reflects someone blindly muddling >through the motions because they can't model any more... > >Your casual comments belittle a lot of hard work done by people who have >spent years volunteering their time without appreciation. > >Paul H I agree completely. The category I judged had 25 models in it and it took an hour and 45 minutes to judge. Someone mentioned colors and research in an earlier post. If it is not mentioned on the entry slip that goes with the model, it is normally not that big a factor. When you get to the level of workmanship involved at the nationals, if those things were considered, all of the judges would have to be experts on each and every item entered and we would have to have a huge reference library and about a month to consider all the entries properly. We have to revert to the basics. We have to look at basic model construction first, which includes alignment of parts. Then we look at the finish and the decals, all starting with the basics first. At that level of competition I have seen excellent models disqualified for something as minor as a finger print on the leading edge of the wing. The other guys didn't have it, and that was the difference. Until you can talk to the judges who judged the category, all you can do is guess. I didn't see the model that close, but it could have been something like a small glue smudge of a missed touch up blemish on a strut. All in all, there were more than 1600 excellent models in Dallas last week. We were in the company of the best modelers in the world, and almost all of us who did win feel honored and those of us who did not place honor the work of those who did. We all have to accept the fact that in that type of competition, on any given day, someone is going to take you to the cleaners, and the next time, you may take him to the cleaners. We have to respect the room and those who were in it. If you haven't taken the time to become a national judge, don't make comments till you have. If you have and you don't like some aspect of the judging, take it up with the Judging committee and either get it changed or accept the reason it is being done. For what it is worth, I personally feel that I should have done better than I did, but I didn't and there is Chicago next year and then VA. Beach the following year. I will have to correct the errors from this year and hope to do better next year. For what it is worth, the models that got beat this year were winners in past local and regional events. There were just some better models there this year. John ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 23:21:50 -0700 From: "David C. Fletcher" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Candice Sopwith Pup Project Message-ID: <397A8EFE.E0A7758D@mars.ark.com> "Candice" wrote: "...if I can't accomplish this one I can never hope to build my own airplane in this lifetime. And I have my eyes on a Zodiac CH-601 kit plane for myself..." Ah! Canadian content! The CH-601 is from north of the 49th parallel. and "Doug Jones" wrote: "...instead of building a fully detailed model you should just go ahead and do that 1:1 project!" My personal airframe is a 1:1 scale two-seater (it's "ot", so visit my website for details...) and is really a large scale model substituting spruce for balsa longerons and birch and mahogany plywood for sheet balsa. The concepts and techniques are very similar. To be honest, when I see someone expend 2,000 hours on a model (and several thousand dollars in the case of an RC model) I routinely ask, "why don't you take the next step and fly in it instead of vicariously staring from the ground?" To bring this "OT", there is a full scale 1 1/2 Strutter for sale in Ontario that needs an engine to fly - then you can have the best of the WWI and the building worlds! Anyone have a Warner Scarab radial in the garage???... Dave Fletcher -- Visit us at our Home Page: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 03:45:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Allan Wright To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Matt & Allan Message-ID: <200007250745.DAA07394@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Gads...with Allan being "away" for awhile, I guess I'll take them. > However, please only send during the day on a weekday. I get the best > bandwidth that way. ;-) Yes, Matt is right, I have been home with a bad back, only logging on to check my mail when I can, doing anything except laying on the floor is extremely difficult. Sorry folks, Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | "I Played the Fool" - Southside Johnny University of New Hampshire +-------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:18:23 +0200 From: "Alberto Casirati" To: Subject: Bristol Scout Message-ID: <00a701bff610$e6d08c80$320106c0@acasirat> I am gathering references for a future project: Libramodels vacuum-formed kit of the Bristol Scout. I would like to paint it in a colourful scheme, but my references are scant in this respect. Any suggestion ? Thank you very much in advance. Alberto Casirati ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 01:19:29 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Bristol Scout Message-ID: <200007250828.BAA13199@mail.rapidnet.net> Chris B-R did a few profiles of various Bristol Scouts. These can be found at http://members.xoom.com/profileart The Datafile has some interesting ones flown by instructors on HE as well. Bob ---------- >From: "Alberto Casirati" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Bristol Scout >Date: Tue, Jul 25, 2000, 1:16 am > > I am gathering references for a future project: Libramodels vacuum-formed > kit of the Bristol Scout. > I would like to paint it in a colourful scheme, but my references are scant > in this respect. Any suggestion ? > > Thank you very much in advance. > > Alberto Casirati ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:29:25 +0800 From: David Solosy To: "WW1 List (E-mail)" Subject: Answer to your judging problems Message-ID: <56EBF0EF4A03D4118C6F00902776597F0A9C2C@s26pss4.pssc.wa.gov.au> Hey you north Americans!  I have the remedy to your judging problems. Have a big competition and show which is WW1 only. Invite me and Shane Weir and other 'foreigners' to be judges. Then you could all compete with no conflicts of interest.Give me a bed and a Guinness or two (or a nice Californian red for that matter) and I'll judge till I drop. :-)   Oh, if it were that easy. The tyranny of distance and the cost of airfares are prohibitive. :-(   Seriously, has anyone ever mooted having a WW1 only comp in your country?   Signing off from fantasy land - er, Oz...   David S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:35:35 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: WWI Subject: aeroclub models Message-ID: <397D6D77.7132EF1C@bgamld.bg.am.lodz.pl> Hi I got catalogue from Aeroclub. There are some very interesting OT models: I wander when would they be available, especially Be.12 FE-8 and DH-5 1/48 AERO 72 KITS. Production is carried out using our own system of low-cost tooling, and every effort will be made to ensure that a high class product reaches the modeller, within the limitations of the process. These injection moulded, limited production kits are complete with metal parts and decals. Some kits include vac-form parts where noted. K024. BRISTOL SCOUT D. Decals for several RAF a/c. £8.50 K029. FOKKER D.VIII/E.V. Decals for Jasta 6, Bernes 1918. £8.50 K030. FOKKER D.VI. Decals for Jasta 80B. £8.50 K038. ROYAL AIRCRAFT FACTORY FE-8. TBA. AEROCLUB MODELS 1/48 SCALE KITS. These kits all have a scale plan, small parts in white-metal and decals. They are either vac-formed or a combination of injection and vac-form. A few kits also include resin parts. K416. BRISTOL F2B FIGHTER. Injection Moulded with alternative tails and three decal options. £24.50 K417. FE.2b. Injection Moulded with Brass Wire and assembly jig for Tail-Booms. Decals for two RAF machines. £23.75 K418. ROYAL AIRCRAFT FACTORY RE.8. Injection Moulded with Decals for three RAF and one Belgian machine. K436. DH-5. Injection Moulded. Details TBA. TBA K437. DH-9. Injection Moulded. Details TBA. TBA K443. ROYAL AIRCRAFT FACTORY FE-8. Details TBA. TBA K444. ROYAL AIRCRAFT FACTORY BE2c. Details TBA. TBA K445. ROYAL AIRCRAFT FACTORY BE2e. Details TBA. TBA K446. ROYAL AIRCRAFT FACTORY BE12a. Details TBA. TBA K447. ROYAL AIRCRAFT FACTORY BE12b. Details TBA. TBA -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:55:44 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Award clarification Message-ID: <397D7230.B5E34E55@bgamld.bg.am.lodz.pl> Matt, Congratulations, you really deserve it. -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 07:27:30 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Answer to your judging problems Message-ID: <200007251227.FAA11791@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net> On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:40:10 -0400 (EDT), David Solosy wrote: > Seriously, has anyone ever mooted having a WW1 only comp in your country? Every two (or is it four?) years, at the OtF convention. Granted, it could be bigger... :-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 05:35:31 PDT From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Judging & future nats./was: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats Message-ID: <20000725123532.52653.qmail@hotmail.com> John Huggins wrote: >there is Chicago next year and then VA. Beach the following year. So, it is true then, the 2002 Nationals are in Virginia Beach? Regarding competitions' judging. This is a partly random process. Not in the sense that judges are completely arbitrary but there is necessarily some subjectivity involved that cannot be observed directly by those not judging (you cannot se inside the judges' minds). For example, how do you compare 2 small finger prints with one slightly larger one? This being the case, even the best models are unlikely to win every time. There is also a non-random component to the judging and this means that the best models will win most of the time. As Anatoly Karpov said, "The only one who never loses is the one who doesn't play!" If I go to the Nationals, I hope to enter something but if the whole trip's "success" depends on getting a prize, I'm probably going to be disappointed. I just figure I'd get the chance to meet folks I've never seen before and have a good time at the bar. That's about the best you can hope for in my position; anything more would be icing on the cake. Actually, at $6 a can, I think I'd have to be carrying stuff up to my room from the local supermarket. Michael ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 07:38:02 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: I'm back Message-ID: <397D8A2A.54793965@bellsouth.net> DAVID BURKE wrote: > > Uhh, I think you want to talk to your agents. This ain't up to me... Ah Buggers! What fresh hell is this? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:30:29 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Roland C.II Message-ID: <200007251330.GAA04790@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I was asked a question about the C.II and wanted to get the list's thoughts. The person was questioning the mauve on some of the camo'ed C.II's, and thought it should be red-brown instead. Thoughts? Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 06:37:49 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Roland C.II Message-ID: <200007251347.GAA18009@mail.rapidnet.net> yup, some of them were red-brown .. I have at least one in that colouring on my CD Bob ---------- >From: "Matt Bittner" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Roland C.II >Date: Tue, Jul 25, 2000, 6:35 am > > I was asked a question about the C.II and wanted to get the list's > thoughts. > > The person was questioning the mauve on some of the camo'ed C.II's, and > thought it should be red-brown instead. > > Thoughts? > > > Matt Bittner > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:51:21 -0500 From: "cameron rile" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Bristol Scout Message-ID: <9E72F146F1264D115AC40005B80A2E33@cameron.prontomail.com>
Alberto,

>I am gathering references for a future project: Libramodels vacuum-formed
>kit of the Bristol Scout.
>I would like to paint it in a colourful scheme, but my references are scant
>in this respect. Any suggestion ?

1 Sqdn Australian Flying Corps flew four (IIRC) in Syria during 1916. They didnt last long with
the squadron as the engines didnt handle the heat well and they were even more
underpowered than usual. Most notable though, Wackett used one for his interupter gear
experiments. The Bristols were all over CDL, so not colourful :(

The Central Flying School in Australia also had a Bristol Scout. Not flashy looking but has a
good story attached to it as students werent allowed to fly it as it was too fast and dangerous
( this is in 1917! ) and too much of a jump from the Boxkites, Farmans and BE's. It apparently
was only flown a couple of times before Avro's and Pups arrived in late 1918. Again not
colourful, it was PC10/CDL with CFS (7 or 9?) written on the side.

If you are interested, Ill send you what I have on those aircraft. But they are better for talking
points and oddities than eye catching schemes.



cam
AFC - http://members.xoom.com/PointCook/index.htm








______________________________________________________________
Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com

------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:02:21 -0500 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats Message-ID: <397D9DED.60460F9E@x25.net> --------------308BDB7D4A60D435ADCE2B50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have enlarged and underlined precisely why I will not Judge at any contest. It may be a wrong decision but it is how I feel. I make models for my owninjoyment and I have taken many to the events. I do not enter the contests. I hope those who attend enjoy seeing the models but I do not and never have gone into this hobby as a form of combat where there must be a winner and therefore a loser. My sympathy goes to Lance Kreig and I am sure he wished he had won and it sounds as if he should have. That is the chance one takes when the judges of all things don't know everything about all things, and, give an opinion anyway.. I will not be one of them. I admit my weakness. Lee > agree completely. The category I judged had 25 models in it and it > took an hour and 45 minutes to judge. Someone mentioned colors and > research in an earlier post. If it is not mentioned on the entry slip > that goes with the model, it is normally not that big a factor. When > you get to the level of workmanship involved at the nationals, if > those things were considered, all of the judges would have to be > experts on each and every item entered and we would have to have a > huge reference library and about a month to consider all the entries > properly. We have to revert to the basics. We have to look at basic > model construction first, which includes alignment of parts. Then we > look at the finish and the decals, all starting with the basics first. > > At that level of competition I have seen excellent models > disqualified for something as minor as a finger print on the leading > edge of the wing. The other guys didn't have it, and that was the > difference. Until you can talk to the judges who judged the category, > all you can do is guess. I didn't see the model that close, but it > could have been something like a small glue smudge of a missed touch > up blemish on a strut. > > All in all, there were more than 1600 excellent models in Dallas last > week. We were in the company of the best modelers in the world, and > almost all of us who did win feel honored and those of us who did not > place honor the work of those who did. > > We all have to accept the fact that in that type of competition, on > any given day, someone is going to take you to the cleaners, and the > next time, you may take him to the cleaners. We have to respect the > room and those who were in it. If you haven't taken the time to > become a national judge, don't make comments till you have. If you > have and you don't like some aspect of the judging, take it up with > the Judging committee and either get it changed or accept the reason > it is being done. > > For what it is worth, I personally feel that I should have done > better than I did, but I didn't and there is Chicago next year and > then VA. Beach the following year. I will have to correct the errors > from this year and hope to do better next year. For what it is worth, > the models that got beat this year were winners in past local and > regional events. There were just some better models there this year. > > John --------------308BDB7D4A60D435ADCE2B50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have enlarged and underlined precisely why I will not Judge at any contest.  It may be a wrong decision but it is how I feel.  I make models for my owninjoyment and I have taken many to the events.  I do not enter the contests.

I hope those  who attend enjoy seeing the models but I do not and never have gone into this hobby as a form of combat where there must be a winner and therefore a loser.

My sympathy goes to Lance Kreig and I am sure he wished he had won and it sounds as if he should have.  That is the chance one takes when the judges of all things don't know everything about all things, and, give an opinion anyway..  I will not be one of them.  I admit my weakness.

Lee

 agree completely. The category I judged had 25 models in it and it
took an hour and 45 minutes to judge. Someone mentioned colors and
research in an earlier post. If it is not mentioned on the entry slip
that goes with the model, it is normally not that big a factor. When
you get to the level of workmanship involved at the nationals, if
those things were considered, all of the judges would have to be
experts on each and every item entered and we would have to have a
huge reference library and about a month to consider all the entries
properly.  We have to revert to the basics. We have to look at basic
model construction first, which includes alignment of parts. Then we
look at the finish and the decals, all starting with the basics first.

At that level of competition I have seen excellent models
disqualified for something as minor as a finger print on the leading
edge of the wing. The other guys didn't have it, and that was the
difference. Until you can talk to the judges who judged the category,
all you can do is guess. I didn't see the model that close, but it
could have been something like a small glue smudge of a missed touch
up blemish on a strut.

All in all, there were more than 1600 excellent models in Dallas last
week.  We were in the company of the best modelers in the world, and
almost all of us who did win feel honored and those of us who did not
place honor the work  of those who did.

We all have to accept the fact that in that type of competition, on
any given day, someone is going to take you to the cleaners, and the
next time, you may take him to the cleaners. We have to respect the
room and those who were in it. If you haven't taken the time to
become a national judge, don't make comments till you have.  If you
have and you don't like some aspect of the judging, take it up with
the Judging committee and either get it changed or accept the reason
it is being done.

For what it is worth, I personally feel that I should have done
better than I did, but I didn't and there is Chicago next year and
then VA. Beach the following year.  I will have to correct the errors
from this year and hope to do better next year. For what it is worth,
the models that got beat this year were winners in past local and
regional events. There were just some better models there this year.

John

--------------308BDB7D4A60D435ADCE2B50-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:00:06 -0400 From: Brian.Nicklas@nasm1.si.edu To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats Message-ID: I'm tired of people slamming judging. I've seen a lot of people attend, not enter a category they are some knowledge of, and yet they will not judge. They have to get to the vendor room, they have to meet up with "x" or whatever. I've judged, and haven't missed anything, even MET NEW FRIENDS while judging. The only thing I don't do any more is go on tours, unless it's real special, because that's when I've missed stuff. Learning to judge, and pulling an apprentice period is easy - they even run a intro seminar. Goodness knows that most modellers are not limited in one area, look how talented we are. So if you are at a contest, and you are not entered in an area where you are comfortable with the subject, track down the head judge (he is just a modeler like you) and offer your help. I offered once and ended up judging juniors - which had a whole range of entries, from WWI to dinosaurs - and I had a great time, some of those juniors are damn good! Yes, sometimes it doesn't seem fair, judges are not perfect, they are human - they are your friends and fellows after all. I have yet to meet a judge with an agenda other than to be fair. That's why I like the ability to stand with the models you have judged to answer questions afterward. If you think you were slighted, find out why. There might be something that you overlooked. When you get four fantastic models, sometimes it is the most subtle things that make you number four. I am amazed at the work of the guys on the WWI List, so remember where you are judged best, not least. Please continue to support IPMS, the IPMS Nationals, your local contests and judges - even give it a try if you've never done it, or have not judged in a while. Rant mode off. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:55:07 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS!!!- DB's take on the Nats Message-ID: Please, gang, let this matter drop. To judge a national contest is an overwhelming job, and there was ample competition in every direction. Recall that our own Paul Howard took both first AND second in the self-same category, and we should be saluting his accomplishment rather than pillorying the process by which it was achieved. Anyone who competes had best face the possibility of losing. I need to work harder to correct the flaws that I always knew were there. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:08:20 -0500 From: "cameron rile" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Bristol Scout Message-ID: <08F2F146F1264D115AC40005B80A2E33@cameron.prontomail.com> Sorry last one came through as html, prontomail trires to enforce it by default and I occasionly forget to check it off. Alberto, >I am gathering references for a future project: Libramodels vacuum-formed >kit of the Bristol Scout.
>I would like to paint it in a colourful scheme, but my references are scant
>in this respect. Any suggestion 1 Sqdn Australian Flying Corps flew four (IIRC) in Syria during 1916. They didnt last long with the squadron as the engines didnt handle the heat well and they were even more underpowered than usual. Most notable though, Wackett used one for his interupter gear experiments. The Bristols were all over CDL, so not colourful :( The Central Flying School in Australia also had a Bristol Scout. Not flashy looking but has a good story attached to it as students werent allowed to fly it as it was too fast and dangerous ( this is in 1917! ) and too much of a jump from the Boxkites, Farmans and BE's. It apparently was only flown a couple of times before Avro's and Pups arrived in late 1918. Again not colourful, it was PC10/CDL with CFS (7 or 9?) written on the side. If you are interested, Ill send you what I have on those aircraft. But they are better for talking points and oddities than eye catching schemes. cam http://members.xoom.com/PointCook/index.htm ______________________________________________________________ Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2485 **********************