WWI Digest 2427 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Salmson Refs by smperry@mindspring.com 2) Re: Salmson Refs by Brent_A_Theobald@notes.seagate.com 3) Re: Salmson Refs by Lee Mensinger 4) CD by Lee Mensinger 5) Re: HB D.I question by "Leonard Endy" 6) Re: pfalz silbergrau by Otisgood@aol.com 7) Re: Datafile 81 D.I on steroids by "Jack Gartner" 8) Re: Cross & Cockade Vol 13, #3, 1982 by Otisgood@aol.com 9) Re: Cross & Cockade Vol 13, #3, 1982 by Otisgood@aol.com 10) Re: Another one bites the dust by "Jack Gartner" 11) Stropp decals by Otisgood@aol.com 12) Re: HB D.I question by "Jack Gartner" 13) Re: Stropp decals by Matthew Zivich 14) Re: Salmson Refs by skarver@banet.net 15) Re: Favorite two seater by "Jack Gartner" 16) Re: Info needed by "Jack Gartner" 17) Home again - heeeee's baaaack! by "DAVID BURKE" 18) Re: Salmson Refs by MAnde72343@aol.com 19) Re: Home again - heeeee's baaaack! by smperry@mindspring.com 20) Re: Stropp decals by MAnde72343@aol.com 21) Re: HB D.I question by "David Calhoun" 22) Re: Stropp decals by Otisgood@aol.com 23) Re: Info needed by Zulis@aol.com 24) Re: Home again - heeeee's baaaack! by KarrArt@aol.com 25) Re: Cool Model For Sale.... by KarrArt@aol.com 26) Re: Info needed by "Jack Gartner" 27) Re: Info needed by MAnde72343@aol.com 28) Re: Info needed by Witold Kozakiewicz 29) Albatros C.V by MAnde72343@aol.com 30) Re: Info needed by Albatrosdv@aol.com 31) Re: Stropp decals by Witold Kozakiewicz 32) Re: Info needed by Albatrosdv@aol.com 33) Re: Info needed by Albatrosdv@aol.com 34) RE-8's by "Alberto Casirati" 35) RE 8s by "Alberto Casirati" 36) back in the saddle again by "dfernet0" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:27:08 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Salmson Refs Message-ID: <00cd01bfdb17$6ff4ace0$4e0d56d1@default> Jim Landon is scratchbuilding a Salmson for a museum in large scale. Looking at the posted progress, he has dug up some references. http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/Images/Landon/Salmson/ sp who has the Pegasus Salmson and wants a DF on it (and every other plane that ever flew) too. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:31:59 -0500 From: Brent_A_Theobald@notes.seagate.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Salmson Refs Message-ID: I never thought that really applied to me. At any rate I was serious. Build it. Make it look great. Who'll know if it has some inaccuracies in it? It will be the only representation I've seen and I'd wager the only one the general population has seen either. The only references may only be outline drawings and photos. Who knows? Not I. I'll build my 1/48 CzechMaster and take my best guess. Later! Brent PS: I don't have the email address of the list member I purchased the Czech Master kit from with me in Minnesota. The kit arrived safe and sound. It'll look great in American AEF markings. Another kit I can't wait to start! Thank you very much (if you see this). MAnde72343@aol.com@pease1.sr.unh.edu on 06/20/2000 07:08:58 PM Please respond to wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Sent by: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu To: Multiple recipients of list cc: Subject: Re: Salmson Refs Dear Brent, Haven't you ever heard that "no one likes a Smart***"? There has got to be a reference somewhere or where did the kits come from? Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:07:12 -0500 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu, lemen@x25.net Subject: Re: Salmson Refs Message-ID: <3950153F.7F2C8136@x25.net> Maybe they come from the same place as the top wing on a 1/28th Revel Fokker D-VII. Had to say that since I can some times be a wise A--. Lee M. MAnde72343@aol.com wrote: > Dear Brent, Haven't you ever heard that "no one likes a Smart***"? There has > got to be a reference somewhere or where did the kits come from? > Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:11:26 -0500 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: CD Message-ID: <3950163E.1A226E81@x25.net> Matt, did you ever get the CD I sent last week? Lee M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:28:36 -0400 From: "Leonard Endy" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: HB D.I question Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:16:03 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: >Since I have acquired some of the new Pegasus wood decal, I would (or >is that wood? ;-) like to use it on the Toko HB D.I's I'm building. >However, I'm having difficulty figuring out something. Was the entire >fusealge one big piece of wood, or was it broken up like an Albatros? >I'm thinking maybe four big pieces - one piece for the turtldeck; one >piece for each side; and one piece for the bottom. What does the list >think? > > Hi Matt, Looking through the FMP book on the D.I it would appear that the sides are two-piece. One from the tail all the way to just slightly past the rear of the cockpit and the second from there to the front. Turtledecking appears to be the same and also it does appear that it is just one piece bent over the fuselage spine. No clear shots of the underside but two would sound reasonable in that area. I'll try and study the photos a little closer to see if anyhing else turns up. Len (Whose cook-up Alb is moving slowly....grandson is in the house this week...sure is fun to have around but he can tire you out !) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:56:54 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: pfalz silbergrau Message-ID: <6e.61c532.26817ae6@aol.com> In a message dated 6/20/00 6:20:11 PM Central Daylight Time, afwatson@yahoo.com writes: > just picked up Eduard's Pfalz III and I wanted to do > the silbergrau-colored option. Does anyone know what > would be a good match or a good mix for match? I use > Model Master (acrylics or enamels) and Pollyscale > mostly. > Thanks! Using Model Master Acrylics (the new stuff) I mixed about 50% flat aluminum, 30% flat white, and 20% dark or cobalt blue. Otis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:00:03 -0400 From: "Jack Gartner" To: Subject: Re: Datafile 81 D.I on steroids Message-ID: <002c01bfdb24$6c725100$89371c18@tampabay.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 1:14 AM Subject: Re: Datafile 81 D.I on steroids > Jack, still working on a model in the wee hours before a show sound kinda > familiar... > Merrill > I wonder what the record for that is? My best was finishing a model in my motel room and registering it at 5PM with registration closing at 6 (Never again, though!) :-) Jack Gartner IPMS/USA 30538 diaphus@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:58:37 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Cross & Cockade Vol 13, #3, 1982 Message-ID: <5f.6d14347.26817b4d@aol.com> In a message dated 6/20/00 9:39:52 AM Central Daylight Time, lance.krieg@amerus.com writes: > As far as I know, the land planes used by the Kriegsmarine in the Seefrostas > were finished in the standard factory fashion, like the army's. > > Or are you after something else? No, I'm not. I really wanted to see if it gave instructions on painting the mottled camo, and ay details about the green/mauve pattern. THanks. Otis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:59:36 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Cross & Cockade Vol 13, #3, 1982 Message-ID: In a message dated 6/20/00 1:47:17 PM Central Daylight Time, andy.kemp@iname.com writes: > You could try buying a copy from Cross and Cockade :-) > > The web site www.crossandcockade.com has all the details > you'll need ... > I figured one that old wouldn't be available. I wasn't trying to be cheap! OG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:10:57 -0400 From: "Jack Gartner" To: Subject: Re: Another one bites the dust Message-ID: <004101bfdb25$f12e9ce0$89371c18@tampabay.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: D Charles To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 6:18 AM Subject: Another one bites the dust > After months of delay as I painted, rubbed back and repainted many times I > achieved the perfect (ahem) CDL finish on the underside of the 1/28 DH5. > Then I dropped it..... > > sob > > David > OUCH! Reminds me of the ONLY time I foolishly put a finished model in the open back of my pickup for transport to a show so a friend could ride in the cab. At about 65MPH, the vortex in the back sucked the box out. The only time I've seen a static model fly.... The worst part was it was a newly finished 1/48th scale Eduard Fokker Eindekker, hand painted in Turkish markings and it was gorgeous! The one good thing - the box never opened and slid off the highway onto the shoulder. Inside was a completely and almost completely disassembled kit with a fully intact interior. One day, she will rise again... Your comrade in modeling misery, Jack Gartner IPMS/USA 30538 diaphus@tampabay.rr.com PS Now, going to model shows, my friends have a choice - take their own car or ride in the back :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:11:06 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Stropp decals Message-ID: <34.6ca9b4d.26817e3a@aol.com> Today I received my order of 5 sets of Stropp decals from IPMS Spruce Goose. That's great service! I encourage others to order some especially to support the Mike Fritz Memorial WWI modeling award at the IPMS nationals. Otis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:24:30 -0400 From: "Jack Gartner" To: Subject: Re: HB D.I question Message-ID: <007101bfdb27$d5f872a0$89371c18@tampabay.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Bittner To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 12:16 PM Subject: HB D.I question > Since I have acquired some of the new Pegasus wood decal, I would (or > is that wood? ;-) like to use it on the Toko HB D.I's I'm building. > However, I'm having difficulty figuring out something. Was the entire > fusealge one big piece of wood, or was it broken up like an Albatros? > I'm thinking maybe four big pieces - one piece for the turtldeck; one > piece for each side; and one piece for the bottom. What does the list > think? > > > Matt Bittner > Matt, Inside my Eduard DI kit, I tucked away a review of the kit by Harry Woodman. FWIW, here are his comments about the ply fuselage: "If the model chooses to use this item [he is referring to the wood decal sheet Eduard included in the kit] then it should not be applied like wallpaer, all in one piece. Cut it up into panels to resemble the original..." Elsewhere he says, " Small dots applied with a sharp pencil (about HB) can represent tacke heads if desired. Two side view diagrams I have of the D.I show about 12 fuselage panels. They meet the turtledeck at about the level of the cockpit lower egde, but are continued as SEPARATE PANELS. I hope this helps you. Jack Gartner IPMS/USA 30538 diaphus@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:27:41 -0400 From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Stropp decals Message-ID: <3950281C.B3D840D3@svsu.edu> Last week or so someone scanned Stropp decals on the list with tail stripes that appeared way too light in value, about a medium range green. The NASM Stropp's green tail stripes are extremely dark in value. So much so that with a quick glimpse, you'd think they were black. (I tried to scan my photo of this plane for the list on my new scanner, but the jpeg exceeded the acceptable quota and my picture was rejected). :( Matt Z Otisgood@aol.com wrote: > Today I received my order of 5 sets of Stropp decals from IPMS Spruce Goose. > That's great service! I encourage others to order some especially to support > the Mike Fritz Memorial WWI modeling award at the IPMS nationals. > > Otis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:26:22 -0400 From: skarver@banet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Salmson Refs Message-ID: <395027CE.F975B9B@banet.net> Brent_A_Theobald@notes.seagate.com wrote: > IThe only references may only be outline drawings and photos. There is a Richard Anderson set. At least good enough for Jim Landon's museum replica. > Who knows? At least me and Jim Landon. Will the original poster please contact me if you want a copy of these. Lost your email. Regards, Stef ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:40:53 -0400 From: "Jack Gartner" To: Subject: Re: Favorite two seater Message-ID: <009801bfdb2a$20257ba0$89371c18@tampabay.rr.com> I've always loved the Rumpler C.V. As a kid, I had the Guillow wooden kit in partial stages of completion for years. But you know why I liked it? The name - I don't know why but RUMPLER just sounds so cool. Not an argument that would appeal to our more technically minded members, but I don't care. That's my vote and I'm sticking with it! Which reminds me of a two seater I would NOT want to have been in! Check out this excerpt from "The First Air War, 1914-1918" by Lee Kennett about pilots and observers in two seaters: "In the German system, in which the the observer was the senior officer, there were also problems;..." "Occasionally there was a violent rupture: In May 1917, in a duel between French and German two-seater planes that took place on the Allied side of the line, the German plane took hits that disabled its motor. The Frenchmen followed the German plane as it spiraled down, and were astonished to see one of the occupants come flying out at a height of about 200 meters. The German pilot, who remained on board, brought the plane down without serious mishap. Under interrogation he said that the officer-observer, who had been wounded, ordered him to bring the plane down immediately so he could have medical attention. The pilot had refused, believing he could glide back to the German lines. With the motor off the two men became engaged in a violent argument. then the officer leaned forward and began to strangle the pilot, who was forced to abandon the controls, turn around in his cockpit, and grapple with his attacker, finally throwing him from the plane." Talk about insubordination! BTW, the specific plane type was not mentioned. Jack Gartner IPMS/USA 30538 diaphus@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:46:41 -0400 From: "Jack Gartner" To: Subject: Re: Info needed Message-ID: <00bf01bfdb2a$ee764160$89371c18@tampabay.rr.com> > This is the part which bothers me about this whole discovery. Sure, we can > quibble over a mechanic's memory of a specific pilot's cowl colour, but > weren't any of these austrian pilots writing anything down? Where are all > the letters home to their girlfriends, describing what their planes look > like? Surely it wouldnt take long to see if they are talking about grey > airplanes or brown/green ones.... > > DZ > In truth, many pilots and crews paid little attention to those particulars. I remember at my uncle's funeral, who flew B-24's in WWII, I met his co-pilot and asked him about some particulars so I could build my uncle's plane. His reply was, more or less, "I was 19 years old, flying missions that I didn't know if I'd come back from. I didn't pay any attention to anything but flying". Sometimes, when I think about the truth in that, we're lucky to know as much as we do. Jack Gartner IPMS/USA 30538 diaphus@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:42:02 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Home again - heeeee's baaaack! Message-ID: <00ca01bfdb2a$48969240$e098aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Hey Kids, Back from a lovely time in France. Will tell more when jet-lag has worn off. Until then, it's good to be home! DB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:57:14 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Salmson Refs Message-ID: <28.7436b4e.2681890a@aol.com> It's me, at least I think it was, Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:05:36 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Home again - heeeee's baaaack! Message-ID: <013501bfdb2d$92e5acc0$4e0d56d1@default> Welcome back! What'd ya bring us?? sp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:06:24 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Stropp decals Message-ID: Otis, could you repeat the address for those STROPP decals, I printed it out, but lost it (although there's those who would say I lost it years ago) Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:33:06 -0700 From: "David Calhoun" To: Subject: Re: HB D.I question Message-ID: <019f01bfdb47$9f2ab380$dc0c3ccc@oemcomputer> Hi Matt,I was looking at the FMP book on the HB D.1 and it appears that the fuselage was made up of multiple photos, although the panels are not shown in the drawings. On page 14 it shows a detail shor of 28.68 and there is clearly a panel line going down the fuselage side just under the cockpit and in front of the foot step. There are nail heads visible on both sides of the panel.There is also some type of joint between the flat side and the curved upper rear fuselage. On page 24 it shows 28.37 with this same panel line on the opposite side, and another panel line 3-4 feet in front of this one. Looks like different shade of wood on this forward panel. Slightly darker. That's all I can make out - no other clear panel lines throughout the book. Good luck! Dave Calhoun -----Original Message----- From: Matt Bittner To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 9:13 AM Subject: HB D.I question >Since I have acquired some of the new Pegasus wood decal, I would (or >is that wood? ;-) like to use it on the Toko HB D.I's I'm building. >However, I'm having difficulty figuring out something. Was the entire >fusealge one big piece of wood, or was it broken up like an Albatros? >I'm thinking maybe four big pieces - one piece for the turtldeck; one >piece for each side; and one piece for the bottom. What does the list >think? > > >Matt Bittner > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:09:43 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Stropp decals Message-ID: <7e.680cdf9.26818bf7@aol.com> The Stropp set I'm referring to does not have the stripes. You gotta paint 'em yourself. That was a Polish or Czech set I believe, courtesy of Witold in Poland, Otis In a message dated 6/20/00 9:30:46 PM Central Daylight Time, mzivich@svsu.edu writes: > ast week or so someone scanned Stropp decals on the list with tail stripes > that > appeared way too light in value, about a medium range green. The NASM > Stropp's > green tail stripes are extremely dark in value. So much so that with a > quick > glimpse, you'd think they were black. (I tried to scan my photo of this pla ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:22:40 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Info needed Message-ID: <57.7511740.26819d10@aol.com> Jack writes: << In truth, many pilots and crews paid little attention to those particulars. I remember at my uncle's funeral, who flew B-24's in WWII, I met his co-pilot and asked him about some particulars so I could build my uncle's plane. His reply was, more or less, "I was 19 years old, flying missions that I didn't know if I'd come back from. I didn't pay any attention to anything but flying". Sometimes, when I think about the truth in that, we're lucky to know as much as we do. >> To a large extent, and for the later disagreement, I agree with you. However, remember - this was in 1915-1818.... flying an airplane was a near-miracle to civilians. Of course the pilots were not allowed to write military secrets, or details about the mechanics of their planes, but I cant believe they didnt describe the "look" of the thing to friends and family who were starving for info about what they were doing. I remember Lee's simple comment (I believe it was in "No Parachute") when he described his plane, presumably PC-12, as "chocolate-coloured". Seems hard to believe that the written record, scant as it may be, cant tell us if those planes were grey. Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:23:55 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Home again - heeeee's baaaack! Message-ID: <72.625559.26819d5b@aol.com> In a message dated 6/20/00 7:51:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dora9@sprynet.com writes: << Will tell more when jet-lag has worn off. >> To heck with the jet-lag- we want to hear more RIGHT NOW. RK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:23:56 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Cool Model For Sale.... Message-ID: <26.74d515a.26819d5c@aol.com> In a message dated 6/20/00 2:10:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Albatrosdv@aol.com writes: << How many fighter aces flew Salmsons >> at least one American, who's name escapes me right now! RK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:47:14 -0400 From: "Jack Gartner" To: Subject: Re: Info needed Message-ID: <000f01bfdb3b$cafd1400$b6ab8bac@tampabay.rr.com> > Seems hard to believe that the written record, scant as it may be, cant tell > us if those planes were grey. > > Dave Z > Of course, you're assuming that somewhere, those letters have been published! The EXACT description you're looking for could be moldering in someone's attic! :-) Jack Gartner IPMS/USA 30538 diaphus@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:09:46 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Info needed Message-ID: The AH air force was ruthlessly exterminated after the war, with Allied control personnel seeing to the scrapping of every plane, nothing was spared, not even for museums; by late 1919, there was not a single airworthy craft anywhere in Austria, 'successor states' (like Poland), were given or allowed to keep some Austrian aircraft, but the Austrians were not allowed to keep anything that could fly. (And some doubt that the Versailles Treaty led to the Second War) Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:20:52 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Info needed Message-ID: <39505EC4.B3E027EF@bgamld.bg.am.lodz.pl> Chris Anderson napisa³(a): > I don't have the Windsock article in front of me, but I believe it said > that the basis of the two-tone gray theory is from analysis of material > taken from the Berg D.I fuselage in Vienna, using modern processes used by > fine art restoration folks; they claimed the green/tan appearance was due > to aging/chemical change/something like that, actually perhaps because of > the originally clear dope or varnish used over the pigmented dope, rather > then the color itself. Let me know if your friend wants a copy of the > article. > And pictures of 101.37 here http://www.modelarstwo.kk.opole.pl/galerie/seredynski/berg.html -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:29:28 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Albatros C.V Message-ID: I have built six 1/72 vacs, and figured, 'How hard can a 1/48 be?' I figured about twice as much sanding-Wrong! try 5-6 times as much, and of thicker plastic, my shop vac is gouing to die, any second now. But, the forces of modeldom forge on, towards completion, with good news: various Albatros PE sets have usable parts, and a proper prop is coming from Marty Digmayer via Eric at Copper State, plus as an early '17 bird, this one will use the same paint scheme as my D.III, so no extra paint mixtures are necessary. Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:39:27 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Info needed Message-ID: In a message dated 6/20/00 11:26:21 PM EST, Zulis@aol.com writes: << Seems hard to believe that the written record, scant as it may be, cant tell us if those planes were grey. >> I have talked to WW2 pilots who were/are convinced they flew against German fighters that were silver, yellow, red and "bright green" (all at once). Maybe they were, in a twisting fight with the sun flashing at them, in cloudy conditions, with adrenaline pumping at 5 gallons/NYmicro-nano-second. It took me 3 years to finally figure out what happened in the two fights I was in in that "disturbance" 35 years ago. The fact of the matter is, "eye witness testimony" is the *least* reliable information in these situations. I had a guy in the 357th FG *swear* to me how his airplane was painted, yet a color photo taken by Merle Olmstead of the a/c in question showed an airplane that didn't exist on the same planet with what was described, and this pilot flew that airplane for all but three missions of a 250-hour combat tour. The same thing was going on in the great war. "chocolate brown" being a description of PC12???? Maybe PC10, maybe PC12, and maybe an airplane that got rained on by mud that day. (It could have happened) Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:40:34 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Stropp decals Message-ID: <39506362.9EF2256F@bgamld.bg.am.lodz.pl> Otisgood@aol.com napisa³(a): > > The Stropp set I'm referring to does not have the stripes. You gotta paint > 'em yourself. That was a Polish or Czech set I believe, courtesy of Witold in > Poland, It is Czech Propagteam set and it is on my cook-up page. -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:53:06 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Info needed Message-ID: In a message dated 6/21/00 0:12:10 AM EST, MAnde72343@aol.com writes: << (And some doubt that the Versailles Treaty led to the Second War) >> There is no doubt that the Versailles Treaty led to the Second World War, but any fair reading of how the Great War began will clearly demonstrate that the incompetents running an empire that had long ago run out of gas (A-H), depending on another empire headed up by a manic-depressive moron (Kaiser Billy), with incompetent sycophants for government leaders did in fact start the war. How else do you read history that has Britain, in 1890-95, ready to make an alliance with Germany (in complete opposition to their policy of *always* allying against the strongest continental power), only the Germans wouldn't do it because Kaiser Moron thought his English relatives looked down on him, and by 1905, the morons in Germany had managed to scare the English into an entente with their "traditional enemy" France and "the terrible autocracy" of Russia. Further proof that if you want something technical and limited done, ask a German; if you want something important done, ask anyone *but* a German. Unfortunately it took another war for the civilized powers to impose the kind of peace on the Germans that would have a positive effect on them. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 03:04:53 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Info needed Message-ID: In a message dated 6/21/00 0:12:10 AM EST, MAnde72343@aol.com writes: << The AH air force was ruthlessly exterminated after the war, with Allied control personnel seeing to the scrapping of every plane, nothing was spared, not even for museums; >> The only thing the A-H government should have been allowed to be involved in by 1914 was the publication of Strauss Waltzes, the only worthwhile product of the alleged "empire" in its last 50 years. The only moron greater than the Austro-Hungarians was the cuckoo bird Kaiser who gave them a "blank check," didn't tell the government, and went off sailing with his "boyfriends" for the month of July 1914. Hey, I don't make this up, folks! Read "Dreadnought." The world would *definitely* have been a better place if the doctor who screwed up Wilhelm's arm pulling him out of his mother's womb had managed to really screw up and delivered him stillborn; of course, we might not have this site to meet each other on, but I can't help thinking that would be a small price to pay. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:39:47 +0200 From: "Alberto Casirati" To: Subject: RE-8's Message-ID: <001301bfdb53$e0875fc0$320106c0@acasirat> Thanks, Merrill ! Your brought to memory one of the several episodes in which determined RE8 crews effectively fought their single-seater opponents off. Although that machine's performances was not very good (only as far as speed and climb were concerned), many RE8 crews managed to take advantage of the machine's other qualities. As one of the most successful RFC reconnaissance pilots (and RE 8 pilot) said, it was simply a matter of becoming a real team with your observer. AFC crews clearly demonstrated what could be done with the RE8 in combat and got several victories against opposing German fighter formations, even gaining air superiority in their front sector. True, their enemies were not the famed Flying Circus, but if the RE8 was such a bad machine how could they gain that superiority? Some German aces were shot down by RE8 crews. The aeroplane's initial bad reputation, mostly linked to inexperienced pilots' faults, was perpetuated by aviation writers and became a "fact". One of several true history's lies. Alberto Casirati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:50:02 +0200 From: "Alberto Casirati" To: Subject: RE 8s Message-ID: <002501bfdb55$4f3a7f00$320106c0@acasirat> Thanks, Bob ! Just an additional info, for all those RE8 detractors: more than one crew became aces on the Harry Tate. There were at least three ace crews, all in the AFC if I remember well. Of course, air fighting was not the RE8 primary role, and reconnaissance crews were usually asked to avoid aerial combat, in order to get exposed plates to the laboratory. This means a lot in my view, as there actually were RE8 ace crews anyway! Ciao ! Alberto. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 06:56:44 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: "WW1 modeling Mail List" Subject: back in the saddle again Message-ID: <006b01bfdb67$01e284c0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Hi list! I really missed you guys! After being grounded by some days because of the flu (remember 1918?) I'm back to the list realm. I had a glimpse of the current topics thanks to the assistance of my girlfriend and her computer, but i stil have to catch up with all the digests. Anyway, I just can say that these have been very productive days, with many great addittions to the ww1 related sites as well as many interesting threads. For my part, the forced confinement resulted on a moderate modelling activity and some drawings... unfortunately, I have to return to the office today, when I'd rather stay in bed (hey, it's -1ºC outside!) but this crazy group makes the burden lighter. Thanks D. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2427 **********************