WWI Digest 2424 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought by "David Calhoun" 2) Re: Datafile 81 D.I on steroids by "Jack Gartner" 3) Re: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought by Albatrosdv@aol.com 4) Re: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought by Otisgood@aol.com 5) Two quick replies: by Robert Horton 6) SopTripe by Carlos Valdes 7) Blue Rider & Insignia Magazine url by "Millen, Alan R." 8) Re: Blue Rider & Insignia Magazine url by Albatrosdv@aol.com 9) Re: Info needed by KarrArt@aol.com 10) Re: Datafile 81 D.I on steroids by MAnde72343@aol.com 11) Back then and now by Albatrosdv@aol.com 12) RE: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought by Shane Weier 13) Another one bites the dust by "D Charles" 14) Re: Another one bites the dust by smperry@mindspring.com 15) Re: Another one bites the dust by Lyle Lamboley 16) RE: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought by Brian.Nicklas@nasm1.si.edu 17) Re: Another one bites the dust by Allan Wright 18) Re: Barenfangers D.III by "Lance Krieg" 19) Re: Cross & Cockade Vol 13, #3, 1982 by "Lance Krieg" 20) Re: Cool Model For Sale.... by "Sharon Henderson" 21) Re: Barenfangers D.III by "Matt Bittner" 22) RE: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought by "Michael Kendix" 23) RE: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought by Otisgood@aol.com 24) HB D.I question by "Matt Bittner" 25) Re: Cool Model For Sale.... by "Bob Pearson" 26) Re: Barenfangers D.III by "Bob Pearson" 27) Re: Another one bites the dust by Albatrosdv@aol.com 28) Re: Another one bites the dust by Albatrosdv@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:49:04 -0700 From: "David Calhoun" To: Subject: Re: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought Message-ID: <00dc01bfda7b$3f9dc500$920c3ccc@oemcomputer> I did a talk like this for the Wings & Wheels club a couple of years ago. I brought several kits - Eduard, Glencoe & DML. Also my binder of Americal/Gryphon decals, and my box of parts - photoetched details and Aeroclub guns & engines. You can explain a little about German lozenge decals. Also cover different types of rigging - stretched sprue, stainless steel wire, invisible thread, give them several different options. Also a selection of references such as Windsock Datafiles & Squadron books. And a few built up kits to show them what you're talking about. Don't try to over burden them with too much information, let them ask you questions. The rest is up to you! Dave Calhoun -----Original Message----- From: Michael Kendix To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Monday, June 19, 2000 7:07 PM Subject: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought >I have agreed to give a 30 minute talk at my IPMS DC chapter's meeting in >July. As I've only been modelling properly for less than 2 years, I would >like some advice as to the topics I should cover. I have some ideas of my >own but would like the benefit of more experienced persons. Nobody except >me brings built WWI kits to our meetings, however, there are some >fantastically talented and experienced folks that attend our meetings. > >Michael > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:48:56 -0400 From: "Jack Gartner" To: Subject: Re: Datafile 81 D.I on steroids Message-ID: <00b601bfda62$14ae9860$89371c18@tampabay.rr.com> > Hey y'all. I just saw Jack's hand painted prop for his Albatros. This is as > near perfection as I've ever seen. Put a photo of it up and Marty Dygmayer > will be sending in an order. I'm not kidding, y'all just wait till the > Albatri cook up photos are posted. Jack has flat got the technique down for > painting laminated props. > > I asked him how he did the magic and he handed me some line about paint a > base coat then mask with tape strips and paint a darker coat. I know that he > just didn't want to demonstrate his magic wand. Thats OK, just looking at > the results was a treat. Steve, I'm serious, I wasn't trying to hide anything, you were just in a hurry :-) You know how you find one thing in modeling you find you're really good at (like your work with strectched sprue?) Well, I guess mine is props. How about if I provide a short write up with some pix to add to the Albatros cookup pages? Would that be useful? Jack Gartner IPMS/USA 30538 diaphus@tampabay.rr.com PS Yes, 3 golds, one for the Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter (which I am going to try to have at the Nats in Dallas via a proxy since I cannot make it), one for a Toko Hansa Brandenburg W29, and for my Toko Siemens Shuckert, which I did as a DIV (and finished 2AM the morning of the show :-). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:59:06 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought Message-ID: <48.7007118.268037fa@aol.com> In a message dated 6/19/00 9:48:22 PM EST, dcalhoun01@snet.net writes: << Don't try to over burden them with too much information, let them ask you questions. The rest is up to you! >> More importantly, talk to them about why *you* are involved in the field. The hobby is a collection of enthusiasts, and enthusiasm is "catching." TC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:08:15 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought Message-ID: <9a.661ae60.26803a1f@aol.com> Rigging; lozenge camouflage; tire colors; Jasta markings; painting wood grain fuselages and propellers: rolling spandau jackets; that oughta do for starters. Otis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:11:36 -0500 From: Robert Horton To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Two quick replies: Message-ID: <394EE0E8.7F912317@netexpress.net> The List: For Otis' inquiry...I have the set of C & C US and in Vol. 13#3 there is not article that discusses your subject. If you mean C & C Great Britain I don't have issue that far back. For Michael Kendix and the 30 minute talk...if these guys are fairly proficient modelers I wouldn't go very far into the actual techniques of WW I modeling...except for the finer points of rigging materials. Why not delve more into the aspects of why WW I aviations linen winged things are attractive to us...as well as a long trip into all of the neat markings that are out there to confound and confuse us. If you are trying to attract some potential WW I modelers I think it would just turn people off to do another warmed over batch of kit reviews and not deal with the asthetics of the period of interest. Off of the soap box and blip switch killed...Horton ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:22:42 -0400 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: SopTripe Message-ID: <394EE2AA.67FB@conted.gatech.edu> Here's a nice build: http://www.hyperscale.com/gallery/sopwithgh_1.htm Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:30:14 -0400 From: "Millen, Alan R." To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Blue Rider & Insignia Magazine url Message-ID: I contacted Blue Rider, and they actually have their own web site. The decal list is more current than the one found at the Squadron-linked site. The url is http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/insigniamag/blue.html. Enjoy Alan R. Millen Phone 610.676.1194 Fax 610.676.3194 E-mail amillen@seic.com > -----Original Message----- > From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [SMTP:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu] > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 2:28 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: WWI digest 2421 > > > << Hi all, > I was unable to get the url for Blue Rider to work. Is something missing > from this one? > Thanks, > Dave Calhoun >> > > Hi Dave! > > I tried my link and it appears to be dead today. Then, just in case I > gave > you a bad url, I tried accessing it via Tony Matteliano's excellent > modeller's links page. He was using the same url ( > http://www.squadron.com/insignia/blue.html ) and we got the same result, > so > all I can assume is that for some reason their web page is down today. > > Dave Z > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of WWI Digest 2421 > ********************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:06:21 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Blue Rider & Insignia Magazine url Message-ID: <7b.5a90988.268047bd@aol.com> In a message dated 6/19/00 10:31:28 PM EST, AMillen@seic.com writes: << The url is http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/insigniamag/blue.html. >> Which means everyone whohad trouble going to the Great Alb Cookup should go to: http://members.xoom.com/insigniamag/blue.html. Like I did. :-) TC (Signing off to go soak the surprisingly-better ankle and plow on through the battleship-grey seas of "Dreadnought," preparatory to watching "The 1900 House" which got a great review out here.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:49:29 EDT From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Info needed Message-ID: <71.4325fac.268051d9@aol.com> In a message dated 6/19/00 7:09:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, canderson@pop.gtrad.com writes: << don't have the Windsock article in front of me, but I believe it said that the basis of the two-tone gray theory is from analysis of material taken from the Berg D.I fuselage in Vienna, using modern processes used by fine art restoration folks; they claimed the green/tan appearance was due to aging/chemical change/something like that, actually perhaps because of the originally clear dope or varnish used over the pigmented dope, rather then the color itself. Let me know if your friend wants a copy of the article. I haven't come across reactions from They Who Know, but I'm sceptical, mostly because I would think that in some way gray schemes would have been noted, either in documents or recollections, especially since they would have differed so from the greens and tans common to A-H camo- but it is possible. >> I'm no A/H expert, but the Windsock article you refer to was v12 n5 Sept/Oct 96. Seems like almost all A/H color references were based on the late Rodney Gerrard's collection of counterfeit fabric samples. Alan Toelle's chemical analysis of the RG fakes ( alittle bit about this in WW I Aero 156 May 96), plus the Austrian federal heritage office chemical work on Berg D.I 101.37 that revealed the true gray nature of these colors pretty much makes the case for gray. The aged grays with the greenish/brownish tints were used by Gerrard to make his "sample", which was picked up by O'Conner. Quoting Gregory Alegi in the above WW I Aero: "It can be argued that the Rodney Gerrard fabric samples have had far greater impact on present perceptions of Austro-Hungarian camouflage than the German samples....." Alegi quoting O'Conner: "Rodney's fabric collection was of critical importance in establishing several of the colors used in the color plates" Jeez, the damage Gerrard managed to do........... RK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 01:07:24 EDT From: MAnde72343@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Datafile 81 D.I on steroids Message-ID: <76.5a4334.2680560c@aol.com> Jack, still working on a model in the wee hours before a show sound kinda familiar... Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 02:44:40 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Back then and now Message-ID: List: If those of you in North America did not watch "The 1900 House" on PBS tonight, *shame on you*!! Your loss!! It's repeated here in LA on the weekend, so watch for yourselves for a repeat where you are. What a *fascinating* bit of social history. All of a sudden, to me it doesn't seem so strange that the front gunner of an F.e.2b wouldn't think it was strange that he didn't have a seatbelt and was expected to stand on the sill of the cockpit to man the rear gun at 6,000' - which no one on this list would do. There's a lot they thought was "normal" we likely couldn't deal with. Life was difficult. I also thought about that waste of film and videotape "Survivor" on CBS, where a bunch of morons do exactly what you *would not* do to really "survive" (i.e., kick out the people who really know how to do what you really need to know how to do the first chance you get - "eat" animals you didn't need to kill, etc., what a barfalot show) - this show is *really* about "surviving." Trust those cuckoo birds on the other side of the pond to keep managing despite all powers to the contrary to keep on producing the only TV worth watching in America (ourtside of "NYPD Blue" and "Law and Order" and its spinoffs). Nobody in the alleged "TV Industry" just over the hills from me would have the brains to even think something like this was cool. Put those sub-lemur-moron "Friends" in *this* house, you'd get a *sitcom*. When the modern family felt like failures for their inability to use the available technology usefully, it reminded me of.... WHY WON'T THIS THING FLY RIGHT???!! Or... Why A Modern Pilot Cannot Fly A Jenny By Tom Cleaver My earliest aviation memories are my father's stories of wingwalking Jennies. He used to love watching the old newsreel footage of some 20 year old doing the Charleston on the upper wing of a Jenny, andf knew just how the trick was done. I used to watch it and think "how can you do that?" To which he once answered, "It's not that much more difficult than standing up in the back of a moving pickup truck." Yeah, right, standing up in the back of a pickup truck far enough off the ground that, if you fall, it's "...curtains, Joe, curtains." My father's favorite sequence in a flying movie was in "The Great Waldo Pepper" where Robert Redford was supposed to transfer from one airplane to the other and rescue Susan Sarandon, who - at the last moment - lets go and falls off the airplane. (The moment - according to screenwriter William Goldman - "where the audience parts company with the movie: Robert Redford lose the girl in 1974? - no way!!") He was out visiting then, we went to see the movie, and he loved it. Actually, he loved telling the story of how the girl let go and fell off the airplane right in front of the county courthouse of some small western Pennsylvania town in 1925 (when he was 16 and ran away from home for the summer to do this) as they did their low pass to get everyone to come to the field they were going to land in for the circus. "So, what did you do when it happened?" "What were we going to do? Land and be arrested in some rube town? We just kept going and landed elsewhere." So, when I first saw Jim Nissen's Jenny at the Watsonville West Coast Antique Fly- In in 1978, I knew I had to shoot it, and maybe get a ride. It happened the next year, I had Jim's number, he lived in Livermore and I was in Sacramento, not far away as the airplane flies. My friend Jim Anderson had a J-3 Cub, the only "modern" airplane that could stay in the same sky, it took us an hour to fly the 6 miles across the delta from Sacramento to Livermore. After we'd chased the Jenny all over the Livermore Valley and gotten back to his private airstrip, Mr. Nissen asked us if we'd like to go flying. (Yeah, right, like we were going to say no.) My friend went first, and as I watched the airplane fly around the circuit overhead, it didn't seem to fly as smoothly as it had while being photographed. When they landed, my Jim got out of the front seat, looking a bit downcast. I climbed in. "OK," Mr. Nissen briefed me, "what you need to know is, it has non-sensitive equal-deflection ailerons, an over-sensitive rudder, and non-trimmable elevators. You have to lead with the rudder in a turn, and all that adverse aileron yaw will put you in a high-speed stall at any angle of bank past a standard-rate turn. Oh, and the airplane takes 3,500 feet to come out of a spin." (For any non-pilots reading this, the above means: the ailerons, the most-used control in a modern airplane, are of no value; instead of following with the rudder as a trim tab, you initiate the maneuver with it; and the elevators are going to get *heavy*. Not only that, but you're about to learn what "the coffin corner" was, since going into a high speed stall/spin at the altitudes we're flying means the old "augur in.") We take off. Liftoff speed is (if I can believe that monster ASI) 35mph. I push the stick to the side. No response. Hold it, count ten. Finally, we bank. Not too steep here! I center the stick and we tilt to standard rate and start straightening out. We climb. The elevators tell me I have muscles in my back I wasn't previously aware of. We level off at 4,000 feet, and a cruising speed of 45mph. Cars on the road below are much faster than we are. I look out, and all of a sudden I realize that I *could* climb out of the cockpit and onto the wing. It's not a big deal! It is like standing up in a pickup. I look down and agoraphobia keeps me in my seat. Cut to the chase: eventually Mr. Nissen had to take the controls to put us safely on the ground, and I understand my Jim's look of defeat when he climbed out. It's nothing like any airplane I have ever been in (before or since). We go in Mr. Nissen's hangar, and look at his replica Tommy Morse, Spad S.VII and Nieuport 11, and he tells us, "You know, the Jenny was a very effective trainer for these airplanes - they all flew alike - the only difference was these were a little faster." Think about *that* the next time you think it might not have been that hard. I look at those WW1 airplanes today with a *lot* of respect for those who could fly them. (Special note - those who liked the story above well enough to contact me off-list can get a digi-pic of the Jenny in flight, air-to-air, for screensaver) So, anyway, watch "The 1900 House" - it's a lot like flying a Jenny!! :-) Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:59:23 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CD01A9EFE6@mimhexch.mim.com.au> TC > More importantly, talk to them about why *you* are involved > in the field. > The hobby is a collection of enthusiasts, and enthusiasm is > "catching." Bingo ! I find myself steadily attracting new WW1 modellers - the fact is that I can't help waving my arms about and getting louder and more enthusiastic with every word on the subject. Let them see you love the subject, build on that and "they will come" Give them some stories about the real thing too - lots of modellers are historians or armchair fighter pilots whose imaginations are fired by the exciting, the unusual and the romantic. Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. E-Mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:03:27 +1000 From: "D Charles" To: Subject: Another one bites the dust Message-ID: <000101bfdaa0$2cbbf040$e6b93ecb@charls> After months of delay as I painted, rubbed back and repainted many times I achieved the perfect (ahem) CDL finish on the underside of the 1/28 DH5. Then I dropped it..... sob David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:25:44 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Another one bites the dust Message-ID: <004801bfdaa1$e5040920$1c0356d1@default> My sincerest condolances David. Having done similarly I can say with dubious authority that it's usually not as bad as it first seems. Let it rest a day or three, enjoy a good pout and then something you see on the List or in a book will have you dragging it out and it will be fixed and then finished before you know it. sp (Who's BTDT and sooner or later will again) ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Charles" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 6:18 AM Subject: Another one bites the dust > After months of delay as I painted, rubbed back and repainted many times I > achieved the perfect (ahem) CDL finish on the underside of the 1/28 DH5. > Then I dropped it..... > > sob > > David > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:41:10 -0400 From: Lyle Lamboley To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Another one bites the dust Message-ID: <20000620.094112.-189333.1.lyle.lamboley@juno.com> We are our own worst critics...I hope the damage isn't too awful. Regrettably they don't glide very well, as my ex-fiancee's cat tried to find out when it sneaked into my room one day. The 1/48 D.VII looked good, but it was a monoplane very quickly after the cat did its dirty deed. It's amazing how things like struts can disappear under furniture so quickly. 1/28th DH5? I'm guessing this must have been either a vacform or scratchbuilt baby. Hope everything pans out in the rebuild--if it needs it! Lyle On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:18:37 -0400 (EDT) "D Charles" writes: > After months of delay as I painted, rubbed back and repainted many > times I > achieved the perfect (ahem) CDL finish on the underside of the 1/28 > DH5. > Then I dropped it..... > > sob > > David > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:47:05 -0400 From: Brian.Nicklas@nasm1.si.edu To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought Message-ID: Mike, Don't worry, you'll do fine. There are more WWI guys at DC meetings than you may be aware of... ;-) Brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:51:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Allan Wright To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Another one bites the dust Message-ID: <200006201351.JAA09972@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > We are our own worst critics...I hope the damage isn't too awful. > Regrettably they don't glide very well, as my ex-fiancee's cat tried to > find out when it sneaked into my room one day. The 1/48 D.VII looked > good, but it was a monoplane very quickly after the cat did its dirty > deed. It's amazing how things like struts can disappear under furniture > so quickly. 1/28th DH5? I'm guessing this must have been either a > vacform or scratchbuilt baby. Hope everything pans out in the > rebuild--if it needs it! I negotiated a cat-free-zone before I agreed to let my girlfriend move into my house. The modeling room has a closed-door policy when I am not in it. So far no casualties, keeps the hair down to a minimum too. -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | "Without love, life's just a long fight" - SSJ University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:29:44 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: Barenfangers D.III Message-ID: Usually I don't attempt these photo interpretations, but hey, the magazine was right there... "The fuselage, fin/rudder AND the centre of the tailplane all appear to be in the same dark colour. Note how the darker centre isn't just the result of shadow" It looks to me that this is true of the whole jasta - that the fuselage color extends to the horizontal stabilizer roots, and the yellow/black is confined to the fabric areas of the planes. "The standing bear appears to be repeated in a triangular thingie on the yellow portion of the tailplane." No, I think that the triangular thingie is just the upturned point of the elevator - yellow like the rest, but in shadow. Look at the elevator positions on page 31. The "bear" appears to be paint imperfections, like the others on the yellow portion of that tail. Can you see a color demarcation line forward of Barenfanger's cockpit? Or is it my imagination? Are the factory finished fuselages dark stained on some of these, or is the film type making it appear dark? Dammit, this is why I avoid these discussions... Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:38:35 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: Cross & Cockade Vol 13, #3, 1982 Message-ID: Otis wants: "... a copy of this issue?" I've got it Otis, but I don't think it's what you're looking for if you are interested in Seefrosta colors. It's Cross and Cockade International, and the article discusses the marine hex fabric/paint. As far as I know, the land planes used by the Kriegsmarine in the Seefrostas were finished in the standard factory fashion, like the army's. Or are you after something else? Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:51:23 -0400 From: "Sharon Henderson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Cool Model For Sale.... Message-ID: <200006201454.KAA09165@minion.netpolicy.com> Well, as sp mentioned, they were feared by their pilots/crews.... :-) I had always thought, however, that the most feared planes (in terms, I'm assuming, of how the Opposite Team reacted to their presence, NOT the people flying them.... ) would have been Airco D.H.4s, or a Sop. Strutters. The Bristol AC suffered a bad case of "higher-ups" disease -- wasn't it the Brisfit that was believed to be structurally unsound, so that her pilots were instructed not to make any hard and fast maneuvers in combat, lest they have wing breakage? (Uhh, how DOES one avoid hard and fast maneuvers in combat?? ) On that ground, I would suggest the enemy did not find the Bristol AC to be terribly frightening. Another case of an excellent design being messed about with by circumstance.... If I sounded like I was giving raspberries to the Brisfit, believe me, I wasn't. It's one of my favorite British AC in this era. Sharon, Ducking from potential flames owing to her research.... :-) ---------- > Sharon > > >> http://www.sunflower.org/~dstarks/bristol.htm >> >> I'm not the seller, wish I could be the buyer -- and would >> seriously argue that it was the most feared 2-seat AC used by the allies. > > So, if not, which one? > > Enquiring minds you know > > Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:53:41 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Barenfangers D.III Message-ID: <200006201521.LAA10529@pease1.sr.unh.edu> On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:35:33 -0400 (EDT), Lance Krieg wrote: > It looks to me that this is true of the whole jasta - that the fuselage color extends to the horizontal stabilizer roots, and the yellow/black is confined to the fabric areas of the planes. I don't agree. Look at the horizontal tail from where it meets the fuselage. It appears there are three colors on the stab of Baren.'s machine only - fuselage color, black, yellow. Look at the top photo on page 31. The nearest machines to the camera appear to have only two colors on their horizontal tail. > No, I think that the triangular thingie is just the upturned point of the elevator - yellow like the rest, but in shadow. Look at the elevator positions on page 31. The "bear" appears to be paint imperfections, like the others on the yellow portion of that tail. Gee...this one's a toughie. It very well could be the upturned point. However, the paint imperfections look too much like the bear to be a ko-inkie-dink (as The Joker would say). > Can you see a color demarcation line forward of Barenfanger's cockpit? Or is it my imagination? Are the factory finished fuselages dark stained on some of these, or is the film type making it appear dark? That one is difficult to tell for me. Maybe I'll have to scan the photo in and perform some "tests". > Dammit, this is why I avoid these discussions... These are frustrating, aren't they? Matt Bittner __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:37:20 PDT From: "Michael Kendix" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: RE: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought Message-ID: <20000620153720.97078.qmail@hotmail.com> Brian: > >Don't worry, you'll do fine. >There are more WWI guys at DC meetings than you may be aware of... >;-) I know there are folks there who know a lot more than I do about WWI but they don't bring WWI models so it's hard to identify the "Culprits". Michael ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue Jun 20 11:51:14 2000 From: Otisgood@aol.com To: Subject: RE: Intro. to WWI modelling - advice sought Message-ID: <200006201555.LAA10646@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Maybe you can "out 'em" at the meeting. Otis In a message dated Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:38:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Michael Kendix" writes: << Brian: > >Don't worry, you'll do fine. >There are more WWI guys at DC meetings than you may be aware of... >;-) I know there are folks there who know a lot more than I do about WWI but they don't bring WWI models so it's hard to identify the "Culprits". Michael ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:41:46 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: HB D.I question Message-ID: <200006201614.MAA10738@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Since I have acquired some of the new Pegasus wood decal, I would (or is that wood? ;-) like to use it on the Toko HB D.I's I'm building. However, I'm having difficulty figuring out something. Was the entire fusealge one big piece of wood, or was it broken up like an Albatros? I'm thinking maybe four big pieces - one piece for the turtldeck; one piece for each side; and one piece for the bottom. What does the list think? Matt Bittner __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:36:02 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Cool Model For Sale.... Message-ID: <200006201744.KAA27438@mail.rapidnet.net> Sharon writes (or in this case wrongs) . > I had always thought, however, that the most feared planes (in terms, I'm > assuming, of how the Opposite Team reacted to their presence, NOT the people > flying them.... ) would have been Airco D.H.4s, or a Sop. Strutters. The > Bristol AC suffered a bad case of "higher-ups" disease -- wasn't it the > Brisfit that was believed to be structurally unsound, so that her pilots > were instructed not to make any hard and fast maneuvers in combat, lest they > have wing breakage? (Uhh, how DOES one avoid hard and fast maneuvers in > combat?? ) Good heavens no. . the F2b was considered to be a single-seater with a gun behind the pilot and was flown as such. As much as I like the Strutter, it was underpowered and not a very successful fighter. No.3 Wing has reports of the frustration of the escorting fighters falling behind the single-seat bombers once the bombers dropped their bomb .. in fact the single-seater then became the faster, more maneuverable aircraft due to its carrying over 200lbs less (gunner and gun). The DH4 would have been a better aircraft if the crew were closer together for communication as in the DH9. All in all the F2b was the most successful two-seater of the war. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:21:22 -0700 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Barenfangers D.III Message-ID: <200006201743.KAA27432@mail.rapidnet.net> > Usually I don't attempt these photo interpretations, but hey, the magazine > was right there... Well, mine is put away .. but here goes sight unseen. > "The fuselage, fin/rudder AND the centre of the tailplane all appear to be > in the same dark colour. Note how the darker centre isn't just the result > of shadow" > > It looks to me that this is true of the whole jasta - that the fuselage > color extends to the horizontal stabilizer roots, and the yellow/black is > confined to the fabric areas of the planes. Yes .. that is true .. but this one is even more so. It extends out to the rib. . ie the tailplane is in 5 equal areas .. not like the top view of Muller's or the Js.37 D.V. > "The standing bear appears to be repeated in a triangular thingie on the > yellow portion of the tailplane." > > No, I think that the triangular thingie is just the upturned point of the > elevator - yellow like the rest, but in shadow. Look at the elevator > positions on page 31. The "bear" appears to be paint imperfections, like > the others on the yellow portion of that tail. Guess I'll have to look again. > Can you see a color demarcation line forward of Barenfanger's cockpit? Or > is it my imagination? Are the factory finished fuselages dark stained on > some of these, or is the film type making it appear dark? Yes. > Dammit, this is why I avoid these discussions... And why I ask GVW :-) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:41:03 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Another one bites the dust Message-ID: Consider yourself lucky it wasn't *four* at one time (one more and I'd have been an "ace"). But there can be a bright side - turned out my Snipe was not accurately rigged, which it is now as a result of the rebuild. And the others have damage only I know about, but they look fine. It was good therapy the first three days of the bum ankle when I couldn't move anyway. TC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:42:49 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Another one bites the dust Message-ID: In a message dated 6/20/00 8:50:24 AM EST, aew@pease1.sr.unh.edu writes: << I negotiated a cat-free-zone before I agreed to let my girlfriend move into my house. The modeling room has a closed-door policy when I am not in it. >> I negotiated with the Queenly Quintet that they can do anything else they want as long as they don't go in the model shelves. Even the youngest one has been informed by her predecessors that it's an agreement worth making. :-) Tom ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2424 **********************