WWI Digest 2319 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? by "Nigel Rayner" 2) Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread. by Ernest Thomas 3) Re: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? by "Ray Boorman" 4) Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread. by "Ray Boorman" 5) Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread.. by Mark Miller 6) Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread.. by "Karl Otto Titzlinger" 7) Re: Region 5 Report by "Matthew Bittner" 8) Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread. by "DAVID BURKE" 9) ...And now for something completely different... by "DAVID BURKE" 10) Re: Region 5 Report by "DAVID BURKE" 11) Eduard releases - last minute report by "Tomasz Gronczewski" 12) Re: Dufaux Photos by "Len Smith" 13) Re: Dufaux Photos by smperry@mindspring.com 14) Re: Three Strutters by "Francisca e Pedro Soares" 15) Re: Eduard 72nd DVIII by "Francisca e Pedro Soares" 16) Re: Online Model Build idea by "Dale Beamish" 17) Sankes. Re:..And now for something completely different... by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." 18) Up-dated pics by Peter Crow 19) RE: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? by Shane Weier 20) Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread.. by Albatrosdv@aol.com 21) Re: Eduard releases - last minute report by Albatrosdv@aol.com 22) Re: ...And now for something completely different... by Albatrosdv@aol.com 23) RE: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? by Shane Weier 24) RE: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread.. by Shane Weier 25) Ain't Love Grand? by Albatrosdv@aol.com 26) Re: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? by Albatrosdv@aol.com 27) RE: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? by Shane Weier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 19:01:01 +0100 From: "Nigel Rayner" To: Subject: RE: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? Message-ID: <000801bfb84e$6c900180$3f32893e@nigelr> Another point to consider concerning the high losses incurred by the Commonwealth air forces was the "no empty chairs" policy of replacing missing pilots immediately. Due to the high losses, this meant many Brit pilots (don't know so much about other Commonwelath nations) were put straight into the front line with very little flying experience (and usually *no* combat experience). German fighter pilots often (usually?) started their careers in two-seaters, so were more experienced in both flying and combat terms. However, the tables started to turn when the SE5, Camel and Spads started to make their presence felt (and the DV and Pfalz DIII did the same, although to the detriment of the Germans). I do believe however that the Germans started to suffer pilot shortgaes in 1918, which is one of the reasons the DVII was important for them (made an average pilot look good). Anyone more knowledgable care to comment? Cheers, Nigel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 13:15:37 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread. Message-ID: <3915B2C9.65ACCE73@bellsouth.net> Peter Leonard wrote: > As it happens I'm looking for a gilley for the familey estates. How do > you look in plus fours? I don't know. What's a gilley, and what's plus fours? E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 11:21:06 -0700 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? Message-ID: <00cd01bfb851$02d77680$9b1335d1@bconnected.net> Nigel, Good point I am re-reading Barker VC. William Barker started as an observer in a two seater. I wonder if that helped him survive long enough to learn his craft. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Nigel Rayner > Another point to consider concerning the high losses incurred by the > Commonwealth air forces was the "no empty chairs" policy of replacing > missing pilots immediately. Due to the high losses, this meant many Brit > pilots (don't know so much about other Commonwelath nations) were put > straight into the front line with very little flying experience (and usually > *no* combat experience). German fighter pilots often (usually?) started > their careers in two-seaters, so were more experienced in both flying and > combat terms. However, the tables started to turn when the SE5, Camel and > Spads started to make their presence felt (and the DV and Pfalz DIII did the > same, although to the detriment of the Germans). > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 11:22:30 -0700 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread. Message-ID: <00d301bfb851$34abcf80$9b1335d1@bconnected.net> Ernest, Peter must want you to chauffer him in his Morgan Plus Four ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Thomas > I don't know. What's a gilley, and what's plus fours? ------------------------------ Date: 7 May 2000 11:39:21 -0700 From: Mark Miller To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread.. Message-ID: <20000507183921.20628.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> On Sun, 07 May 2000, Ernest Thomas wrote: > And here's the rub. This just isn't the place for that. I know, I've been guilty of bashing a certain nationality in the past. I was remined that we are an international group, and I saw the light. I now keep my opinions to myself on some matters. Good thing too, because I've got a head full of opinions > that would be sure to offend just about every subscriber on this list. For instance, I HATE Canada. I hate their flag, I hate the way the land mass looks on the map. I hate the "we're not Americans" implication of their sovereignty. And I REALLY hate the fact that if a US citizen want's to drive to > Alaska, they have to go through Canada. > Otoh, I've yet to meet a Canadian that I didn't like, so I don't make my views on Canada well known. :-) > BUt all joking aside, I don't dispute Toms conclusions, I just don't feel his strongly biased personal feelings add any weight to his argument. All they can do is alienate people who make worthwhile contributions to this group. > E. Hi E. I admit you do have a point - Personally I find it hard to get to riled up on questions of historic nationality and culture. ,I as an American citizen, do not feel responsible for the sins of my fathers. What do you think the cycle time is for a culture to remake itself? How much time has to go by before one can stop feeling guilty over something your government decided to do. There are, however, cultural constants which can be offeneded. Like making fun of "Germans" or "Americans" usually gets pretty ugly and unproductive. I do feel that we tend to be to careful at times, and say what we think we should as opposed to what we really believe. As far as that bombing thing goes - sorry but I have some moral problems with that whole thing I don't feel this in any way diminishes the actions of the men and women in the various armed forces But I should say I've never been in any military force and can't imagine what it would be like - so take it for what it's worth. Dissenting opinions ALWAYS welcome. And as far as Tom goes, well I've probably said too much already. but, personally he seems to be so obviously trying to get a rise out of somebody. It's hard to take too seriously. btw off to Hartford to see a Bruce Springsteen concert. Have an obssessed lady friend who's dragged me to 4 of these so far. And you think this list gets emotional - these Springsteen people are nuts Mark _______________________________________________________________________ Why pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now! http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go _______________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 18:50:08 GMT From: "Karl Otto Titzlinger" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread.. Message-ID: <20000507185008.42985.qmail@hotmail.com> Does anyone have Tom's snailmail? >) Hptm Ritter (Dipl Ing) Karl Otto Titzlinger Late of His Imperial Majesty's Jasta 38DD ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 14:10:57 -0500 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Region 5 Report Message-ID: <200005071913.MAA09585@crow.a001.sprintmail.com> On Sun, 7 May 2000 13:55:51 -0400 (EDT), DAVID BURKE wrote: > Where exactly is Region 5? The midwest region of the US. Includes NE, IA, IL, MN, etc. MEB ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 14:31:43 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread. Message-ID: <001a01bfb85b$bff98a00$fc95aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Wasn't Gilley one of the Spiders From Mars, along with Brad and Ziggy? DB Oh, I think plus fours is shorts or knickers or something. Typical Brits, can't use a siple term like 'pants'. Of course, if they did, then Masterpiece Theater would be more like Seinfeld. Blecch! -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Thomas To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Sunday, May 07, 2000 1:15 PM Subject: Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread. > > >Peter Leonard wrote: > >> As it happens I'm looking for a gilley for the familey estates. How do >> you look in plus fours? > >I don't know. What's a gilley, and what's plus fours? >E. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 14:37:55 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: ...And now for something completely different... Message-ID: <001b01bfb85b$c0db5e80$fc95aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Well, Since we're all talking about the Germans, I have TWO VERY VALID ot QUESTIONS WHICH MIGHT SAVE THE DAY!!!!! One: What is the story behind the Sanke cards? Were they like offered as trading cards in some kind of product? What was their origin? Two: The Germans were called 'The Beastly Hun', and other names that I understand the origins of. What about Boche? Sounds French, but does it mean 'German' in a literal translation, or something else - sort of what 'Kraut' came to mean in the U.S? DB ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 14:39:53 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Region 5 Report Message-ID: <003201bfb85c$241f5b40$fc95aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Ahh! I have always wanted to see a map so I could know where I am - Region-wise. Sounded like a helluva show. Who all is planning to go to the Nats in Dallas? DB -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Bittner To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Sunday, May 07, 2000 2:17 PM Subject: Re: Region 5 Report >On Sun, 7 May 2000 13:55:51 -0400 (EDT), DAVID BURKE wrote: > >> Where exactly is Region 5? > >The midwest region of the US. Includes NE, IA, IL, MN, etc. > > >MEB > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 21:43:53 +0200 From: "Tomasz Gronczewski" To: Subject: Eduard releases - last minute report Message-ID: Hello group, I have just returned from the Koprivnice Contest in Czech Republic. I have managed to contact a nice guy from Eduard's team there and now I can present most recent info about their projects. 1. Off topic Airacobra is still treated as their top priority project. It is almost finished but Eduard was forced to postpone its release date again. Now it is scheduled for August. I have seen most parts of the Airacobra and I have been impressed. For those interested in this stuff I can say that one will be able to make virtually each Airacobra variant, from early P-39D through P-39F, P-400 to P-39Q. A lot of various props and three various exhaust stubs have proven it. There are a lot of details prepared but I have not seen any P/E set yet. Moreover there has been no bottom wing part presented yet so probably problems with this piece caused delays. 2. The next release will be off course on-topic Roland Profipack and we can expect it in early June. 3. A "hobbit scale" Fokker Dr I can be expected in the same time. 4. Probably Eduard will be able to release Pfalz D.IIIa Early (with pointed bottom wings and decals for Degelow's silver stag) 5. In July Eduard will offer long awaited Nieuport 11, followed by the Profipack, and later Ni 16, Ni 21 variants in std/pro boxing. 6. Albatros D.II will be available this autumn. 7. May be Camels and S.E.5as will be available before the end of the year but the guy from Eduard could not promise that. Or at least his reaction was not convincing. Knowing Eduard's common delays I wouldn't expect them this year. Later I asked about later Nieuports (17bis, 24, 25, 27) and Oeffag Albatroses. The man answered that Eduard SHALL release them but not within a year. Surprisingly there were no really new releases in quarter scale presented by any Czech company in Kopirvnice nor a week before in Zlin. The one exception was off topic MPM's 1/48 Tu-2. But AFAIK this kit was available some two weeks before both Contests. On the other hand there was a lot of new off-topic resin and injected models in 1/72 scale presented by such kompanies like Kora, Omega, Sword etc. Greets, Tom Gronczewski ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 16:56:38 +0100 From: "Len Smith" To: Subject: Re: Dufaux Photos Message-ID: <000c01bfb85d$fdce7aa0$70867ed4@mesh> sp Looking at photos of this a/c in the FMP book it appears to me that the rudder was marked in the standard French blue first, white and red at the rear. I think the instructions are wrong. Regards Len. lensmith@clara.net http://home.clara.net/lensmith ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:46 PM Subject: Re: Dufaux Photos > > Nice model, well done ! Do you have any references for the odd placing > > of the colours on the rudder? > > > > Regards Len. > > Not sure what you mean, I just slapped a piece of generic Micro Scale rudder > stripe over the rudder, red first like the instructions said. > sp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 16:03:13 -0400 From: smperry@mindspring.com To: Subject: Re: Dufaux Photos Message-ID: <003f01bfb85f$4780f1e0$6a0d56d1@default> Doh! You are correct. The plans lied to me and I was stupid enough to believe them when I had a photo. Thanks for pointing it out. No such oversight should go unpunished :-) Regards sp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Smith" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 3:58 PM Subject: Re: Dufaux Photos > sp > Looking at photos of this a/c in the FMP book it appears to me that the > rudder was marked in the standard French blue first, white and red at the > rear. I think the instructions are wrong. > > Regards Len. > > lensmith@clara.net > http://home.clara.net/lensmith > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: Multiple recipients of list > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:46 PM > Subject: Re: Dufaux Photos > > > > Nice model, well done ! Do you have any references for the odd > placing > > > of the colours on the rudder? > > > > > > Regards Len. > > > > Not sure what you mean, I just slapped a piece of generic Micro Scale > rudder > > stripe over the rudder, red first like the instructions said. > > sp > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:49:44 +0100 From: "Francisca e Pedro Soares" To: Subject: Re: Three Strutters Message-ID: <00cf01bfb861$8b241740$84ae37d4@pc1> ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Flake To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 2:14 AM Subject: Three Strutters > > Two are Toko Strutters, the bomber and the Comic. Mark, You're going to have trouble with the cabane struts. I'd suggest you to do them piece by piece with thing evergreen rod. Also take care when you place them. You'll probbaly find, as i did, that the incidence angles of the cabane struts will be all wrong.... ;-( Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 21:06:41 +0100 From: "Francisca e Pedro Soares" To: Subject: Re: Eduard 72nd DVIII Message-ID: <00d201bfb861$8e83bd00$84ae37d4@pc1> ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Beamish To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:38 PM Subject: Eduard 72nd DVIII > Any comments from anyone that's built this one? > Dale > > Dale, I've done one a couple of years ago. The plastic is a bit crude but once cleaned the parts go together well. The main problem are the PE struts. I choose to substitute them for contrail but they are way to thick. You could probably use the thinest evergreen rod. Also the lozenge are very incorrect in colour. The other decals are ok but very thin and difficult to lay in place. Use plenty of water since they are the sticky type. The PE (struts aside) is very nice as is the resin PE Spandaus. This is what I remember. HTH Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 15:00:48 -0600 From: "Dale Beamish" To: Subject: Re: Online Model Build idea Message-ID: <005d01bfb867$74253140$5c31b8a1@darcy> My votes in for the Albatros! Is there any other! ALBATROS! Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: 07 May, 2000 12:02 PM Subject: Re: Online Model Build idea > In a message dated 5/7/00 8:38:52 AM EST, Scottfking@aol.com writes: > > << > Sounds interesting. How about Nieuport 17, Pfalz DIII/DIIIa, or Albatros D > series? >> > > I'll vote for the Nieuport 17, since I have the Eduard RFC version here on > the "to do" pile. > > Tom C > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 14:16:10 -0700 From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Sankes. Re:..And now for something completely different... Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000507141610.008c8100@olympus.net> > > One: What is the story behind the Sanke cards? Were they like offered >as trading cards in some kind of product? What was their origin? > >DB Sanke cards were specifically marketed as "Postkarten" (postcards) by the firm of W. Sanke, Berlin. Although they were collected by some individuals during the war as if they were baseball cards or Pokemon cards, they were of standard postcard size and were used as such. One of my Sanke cards was inscribed in very nice Sutterlin script and I was able to have a German acquaintance who reads Sutterlin translate it for me: "Liebes Schwesterchen, Recht herzlichen Dank fuer Deine liebe Karte, habe mich sehr ueber das reizende Kind gefreut. Es ist sehr bedauerlich, wenn man hoert, dass die alten Papas noch mit Krieg machen muessen. Aber was sollte denn werden mit uns. Es wird noch manches Opfer gebraucht ehe das schreckliche Ringen und Morden eine Ende hat. Gebe Gott, dass bald Frieden wird und unser lieber Junge gesund zu seinen." Dear little sister, cordial thanks for your dear card, I was very pleased about the lovely child. It is very unfortunate to hear that now the old dads must go to war. But what will happen to us. There will still have to be done some sacrifices before the terrible struggle and murders will end. Give God that soon peace will come and our dear boy will come back healthy." Fernando Lamas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 14:24:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Crow To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Up-dated pics Message-ID: <20000507212455.11245.qmail@web702.mail.yahoo.com> I've done a little more on the "Stropp".. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=374489&a=5398903 Also moving along on the Hanriots... http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=374489&a=5687319 New pics are all dated 5-7... looking to finish off these Hanriots by the end of next week (kiss of death saying that).. P.Crow __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 08:21:36 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1FB2@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Rays says: > The commonwealth system of sending droves of your own planes > over to bleed > your enemy dry but in the process also get shot out of the > sky is not the > same as air superiority. Although I see some logic if you > have 10 aircraft > and your enemy has 3, well if you send all ten over and six > get shot out of > the sky, but your enemy has no aircraft then I guess you do have > superiority. Darned expensive way of getting it. This seemed to be the > Commonwealths commanders logic. If you read some of the official history you'll find that the logic is somewhat different from the "CHAAARRRRRGGGGGGEEEE" system espoused by the High Commands of both sides in the early part of the war and is entirely consistent with *modern* military thinking. Trenchard believed in adopting an aggressive posture evn when on the defence. In my days as an infantryman we were taught that even in a defensive position one must aggressively patrol the territory between the lines, probe the enemy and generally prevent *him* from doing the same to you. This is exactly what the RFC tried to do - maintain an aggressive posture, ensure that the RFC *could* complete its tasks and the enemy *couldn't* even when inferior material made the task extrememly difficult. Perhaps the difference is unimportant to a dead pilot, but the intent was never to bleed the Germans dry. Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. E-Mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 18:40:46 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread.. Message-ID: <20.5952053.26474aee@aol.com> In a message dated 5/7/00 1:41:37 PM EST, albatros1212@altavista.com writes: << anada well known. :-) > BUt all joking aside, I don't dispute Toms conclusions, I just don't feel his strongly biased personal feelings add any weight to his argument. All they can do is alienate people who make worthwhile contributions to this group. > E. >> Thank you, Ernest. I am going to say this, and say no more: I grew up in Denver, Colorado, for a good part of my childhood. In that city is a hospital, Maury Rose Memorial, named for the highest-ranking Jewish officer in combat with the US Army in the ETO, executed with 340 of his fellow Americans by troops of the Waffen SS for the crime of following a Jewish officer. Among them was a young 2LT from southeast Colorado, my mother's youngest brother, who I never got to know. So far as I am concerned, "rat bastard SOBs" will *always* be the term with which I describe the dedicated Nazi scum of the Waffen SS. I have every personal reason to despise the Nazis and stand completely unrepentant in my views. The Waffen SS was an illegal paramilitary organization outlawed under the laws of war recognized by civilized nations. It was a criminal organization from the moment it was founded, every member was a dedicated Nazi. The organization carried out numerous crimes on every front it served on. And those non-Germans who served in it can be desribed in one word, a word used by the majority of the population of every country those sub-morons came from: traitor. Those of you who want to whitewash the poor widdle misunderstood Germans who only wanted to follow somone who would give them full employment can take your TS card to the Chaplain and pick up their membership in the Institute for Historical Review. You'll get no sympathy here. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 18:44:33 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Eduard releases - last minute report Message-ID: <24.4aabb6f.26474bd1@aol.com> All turn toward Prague, the new Mecca and chant, "Praise the lord Eduard, the lord is good." :-) OT or ot, all that sounds great. I can also tell you there will be no "fish scale" decals in the upcoming Profipack Roland kit, and that comes directly from Eduard. Tom C ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 18:45:43 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: ...And now for something completely different... Message-ID: <15.37911f2.26474c17@aol.com> In a message dated 5/7/00 2:51:26 PM EST, dora9@sprynet.com writes: << What about Boche? Sounds French, but does it mean 'German' in a literal translation, or something else - sort of what 'Kraut' came to mean in the U.S? >> It's French, the exact translation of which I have never heard, but it's not complimentary. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 08:30:33 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1FB3@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Tom, > << Stopping something briefly is not the same as gaining air > superiority >> > > Thanks, Shane!! My point exactly! > > PS - telling the truth about German "military genius" is > hardly the same thing as Teuton-bashing. Ahhh, lets not take it that far. The German tactic of grouping Jastas to enable then to gain temporary ascendancy at a point in time and space is one of the keystones of the military science, both strategic and tactical. Faced with forces of similar size *every* general starts to figure out how he can gather enough of his forces at a weak point in the enemy lines to outnumber and overwhelm the enemy whilst simultaneously disguising the weaknesses it leaves in his defence. The advent of the Jasta, then the JG was nothing new - *except* in it's application to *air* war, which is where Boelke and MvR had their triumphs. Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. E-Mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 08:32:04 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Teuton bashing, was Slow list so new thread.. Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1FB4@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Tom, (where he becomes a Cleaver) > or out of > Prussia and send him to Australia (Weier), they do manage to > become quite > productive citizens. Tell that to my boss. HE thinks I spend my day goofing off answering list mail. Perspicacious of him, i must say ;-) Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. E-Mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 19:00:43 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Ain't Love Grand? Message-ID: Here's some good news from the "crank" in the lower left corner: My girlfriend, who likes WW1 models because they're "cute" (I swear, there isn't a woman on the planet who won't use that word to describe them, I really think so), was in a good mood and dropped by the local shop yesterday to see if there was anything she could get me. Tony told her I had already been by, and picked up the Snipe the day before, but then he showed her something I had expressed interest in, but hadn't picked up because I didn't have enough money on me at the time. She bought it. Later that day, the thought that this had actually shown up "new" on a hobbyshop shelf when they are supposed to all be in the hands of collectors made me go back by to get it. I was really upset when Tony told me he had already sold it. (He didn't say to who) That evening when she came over, she gave it to me: the Blue Max D.H.2 - like I say, how it showed up "new" is beyond me. And she had even gotten Tony to let her open it and check before she bought it that it didn't have the Dread BM Wing Ripple. It didn't!! In fact, looking at it there in its bag, it looks like one of the better BM kits. Anyone with evidence confirming that belief, or to the contrary, should please speak up. I think I am going to do it - looks a whole lot easier than turning the SMER into something. Now I have a reason to put the "DH2 In Action" into action. It's really nice to discover they really are listening to you when you "carry on" about this hobby. :-) Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 19:03:44 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? Message-ID: <43.471a342.26475050@aol.com> In a message dated 5/7/00 1:20:38 PM EST, Ray_Boorman@telus.net writes: << William Barker started as an observer in a two seater. I wonder if that helped him survive long enough to learn his craft. >> Good possibility you're right on that, Ray. I know Cecil Lewis, in "Sagitarius Rising" credits the fact that his first CO taking him off operations until he had more than 15 hours total time on a B.E.2 before sending him over the front with being why he survived. There were a number of German aces who started the same way, and they felt it helped; in fact where possible the Germans appear to have used that as the "career path" to the cockpit of a fighter during the war. Tom Cleaver ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 08:38:18 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Slow list so new thread..... Commonwealth tactics? Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1FB5@mimhexch.mim.com.au> Nigel makes a very valid point: > Another point to consider concerning the high losses incurred by the > Commonwealth air forces was the "no empty chairs" policy of replacing > missing pilots immediately. Due to the high losses, this > meant many Brit > pilots (don't know so much about other Commonwelath nations) were put > straight into the front line with very little flying > experience (and usually > *no* combat experience). German fighter pilots often > (usually?) started > their careers in two-seaters, so were more experienced in > both flying and > combat terms. However, the tables started to turn when the > SE5, Camel and > Spads started to make their presence felt (and the DV and > Pfalz DIII did the > same, although to the detriment of the Germans). Importantly, the arrival of good planes was more or less at the same time as the establishment of a properly structured training system started to produce pilots who'd done several *months* of training adding air combat, tactics and much longer gunnery courses to the original basic flight and type training. The rotation of experienced pilots to these schools as instructors made a *big* difference in the chances of a pilot surviving. Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. 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