WWI Digest 2287 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Osprey's French Blue by "DAVID BURKE" 2) Re: Slightly off topic OT question by "DAVID BURKE" 3) RE: Slightly off topic OT question by "dfernet0" 4) Re: The Vimy Flies Again! by Dave Watts 5) Re: Evaluation of new Osprey Albatros book by "laskodi" 6) Re: More Camel Pix... by "laskodi" 7) More updates by "Matt Bittner" 8) Re: More updates by Allan Wright 9) Re: More updates by Otisgood@aol.com 10) Re: Slightly off topic OT question by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 11) Slight clarification! by Chris Anderson 12) Attention Nieuport Experten---Got A Question by "laskodi" 13) modern warfare in 1914 by "dfernet0" 14) Attention Nieuport Experten---Got A Question by "laskodi" 15) Re: Lest we forget by "Nigel Rayner" 16) Re: lozenge ? by Witold Kozakiewicz 17) Re: Stropp Help by Witold Kozakiewicz 18) Re: More Camel Pix... by Mark Miller 19) Re: Lest we forget by Mark Vaughan-Jackson 20) Re: Evaluation of new Osprey Albatros book by Mark Miller 21) Re: Paul Gaudette Books by Zulis@aol.com 22) Re: Need Help On Albatros D.III OEF by Witold Kozakiewicz 23) Re: Stropp Help by "Francisca e Pedro" 24) Re: lozenge vs. pointilism by Matthew Zivich 25) Re: lozenge & camouflage by "Lance Krieg" 26) Re: More Camel Pix... by "DAVID BURKE" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:21:34 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Osprey's French Blue Message-ID: <00a101bfaeda$d32fec20$b593aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Maybe they should have used a whiter shade of pale... DB -----Original Message----- From: skarver@banet.net To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 7:01 AM Subject: Re: Osprey's French Blue >I saw the Ni Osprey last week, so I am only reporting optical memory >here, but I remember remarking to myself (yes, it's gotten to that >point, I'm afraid) that I thought the insignia blue used on the cover >painting was correct, but the deeper blue used in the profiles was too >dark (i.e., too much chroma). That's not to say I agree with "RR" blue >(and that doesn't stand for a Floquil Railroad color). >Take a look at the Breguet 14 at the Musee de l'Air site (Le Bourget). >I'm afraid I don't have the url to hand. >Regards, >SK > >"K. Hagerup" wrote: > >> Just got the Osprey Nieuport book and noticed that Osprey favors the >> brighter, Tricolor blue over the more subdued, gray-blue of the >> Datafiles. >> >> Ken > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:19:51 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Slightly off topic OT question Message-ID: <00a001bfaeda$d26681a0$b593aec7@dora9sprynet.com> I think that the red pantaloons are indicative of an early war uniform- when the war started, the French went out in their usual uniform of the blue kepi and coat, as well as the red pants. It didn't take too long before they were wearing olive drap, probably from them unloading in those bright pants while running for cover from snipers! But seriously, the first few weeks of the war saw uniforms and practices last seen on the battlefield in 1870-71, and that is part of why the French were slaughtered so readily in the opening days by the beastly Hun. However, it was better than the Belgian soldiers who, upon unexpected mobilization orders, had no time for being truly outfitted and uniformed, and were shot as guerillas and spies when captured by the Germans - the majority of them only had an armband identifying them... DB -----Original Message----- From: Shane Weier To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 2:07 AM Subject: RE: Slightly off topic OT question >Ray, > >>A French wwi >> infantryman with red pantaloons (Very colourfull not sure how >> I would want >> to wear that getup in a trench with snipers though) > >I suspect the theory is that if your head is below the parapet, so is your >ass. > >They'd have been in trouble fighting in the Southern Hemisphere though :-) > >Shane > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************************************** >The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential >and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). >If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution >or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are >requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems >to the MIM Holdings Limited Support Centre. >E-Mail: supportcentre@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. >************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:52:26 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Slightly off topic OT question Message-ID: <00d401bfaedf$0501b040$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Let me say a few words on this topic... War as we currently know didn't exist in 1914. Drab uniforms were in its infancy, being the british experiences in India and South Africa the only practical precedents in the use of low-vis uniformity on the field. I guess that the european countries werent in a hurry to change their looks in 1914. Most of the european wars up to that date were "position" wars, with armies moving in the open, forming lines, etc., so the coloured uniforms had the same practical reason than the colorful airplanes of the germans: easy recognition of friend or foe. The red pantaloons of the french even had a traditional reason and I imagine that their uniforms conjured a powerful image to the morale of their country. Would you feel inspired by heroes clad in a timid greyish blue? Eventually, the development of the war led to other changes that we all take for granted nowadays: The steel helmets, the gear webbing, the gasmasks... Just figure that the belgian, german, austrian and many other soldiers began the war wit some form of modified napoleonic shakos! BTW, there were plans prior to august of 1914 to give a new, practical uniform to the french army. Of course, war didn't awaited until everything was ready.... D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:54:46 -0500 From: Dave Watts To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: The Vimy Flies Again! Message-ID: <200004251756.MAA21805@ind.cioe.com> Does that make me the wicked witch of the midwest? ;-) Actually I think that was the sound that the Budweiser frogs made when the ferret pushed the neon Bud sign into the swamp. Best, Dave >Dave Watts said: > >>Hi all, >> >> I'm on the board of the GWAA.... > >Funny, that's the sound I made when that board landed on me! > > DB > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:01:16 -0700 From: "laskodi" To: Subject: Re: Evaluation of new Osprey Albatros book Message-ID: <002301bfaee0$40cf54a0$3e3819d0@laskodi> Hear, hear, Tom. My sentiments exactly. The book as published is over 95% correct (IMHO) and in this age of digital publishing that is about all one can ask for. The old days of an editor "slaving" over an authors input have passed due to the economic realities of the new millenium. -----Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 9:46 AM Subject: Re: Evaluation of new Osprey Albatros book > Rather than talk about the errors in this book, I'd like to say how glad I > was to find a photo of Ltn. Josef Veltjens' Albatros DV that *finally* > allowed me to figure out how the fuselage was painted (it wasn't overall > red-blue), so I could do an airplane flown by this interesting and - at least > to me - often-overlooked ace. That alone would be worth the cost of the book > to me (the model now awaits final assembly), but there are several other > photos that help answer some questions I have had. Plus those profiles give > one such inspiration I am going to have to search out several more kits! > > Yeah, the other stuff can be bothersome, but when the LA Times publishes the > word "Capital" in a front page headline where the word "Capitol" is proper, > typos and minor changes are not so big. Anyone who can't figure out that a > profile of an Albatros D.II has been mis-labeled a D.III probably should be > over discussing WW1 modeling at r.m.s. rather than here. (No put-down of > anyone here - I mean that we as a group are smart enough to figure these > things out.) Several ot modelers I know have bought this book, and an Eduard > kit, as their first OT project since they think the Albatros is "cool" just > on its looks, so the book has already accomplished the purpose of expanding > the congregants in the One True Religion. :-) > > Tom Cleaver > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:08:54 -0700 From: "laskodi" To: Subject: Re: More Camel Pix... Message-ID: <004101bfaee1$52144d00$3e3819d0@laskodi> Hey David, could I contract with you to provide me some wicker seats and props in 1:48 scale! Darn good work, I am highly impressed with your manual dexterity and keen eyesight! Wish I had both! -----Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "DAVID BURKE" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:34 AM Subject: More Camel Pix... > Hey Kids, > > Just to let y'all know that Allan and I finally got our bugs worked out > and so the other 5 pics of the Camel under construction are now up, > including 2 extra views of the seat, and other stuff. Just look at my > little slice of the Image Gallery and they're right there! > > NOW- If I can only find some of those parts I've mislaid... > > DB > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:06:32 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: More updates Message-ID: <200004251808.OAA12944@pease1.sr.unh.edu> So far I have changed the layout of the following list members: Mine Alberto Casirati Pedro Soares Erik Pilawskii Sandy Adam I will continue with other pages as I can. If there are only two to four images on a page, then that person's section won't be changed with the new layout. I'm a little burned out updating Sandy's pages. ;-) As I change these pages, I'm still amazed at the level of skill this list represents. Excellent work everybody!! Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/ipmsfortcrook http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/FrenchWW1 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:17:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Allan Wright To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: More updates Message-ID: <200004251817.OAA13034@pease1.sr.unh.edu> I think we all owe Matt a big debt og gratitude, espscially myself. This work he is doing is quite labor intensive and really helps the page by making each gallery easier to view and faster to download! Thanks Matt! -Al > So far I have changed the layout of the following list members: > > Mine > Alberto Casirati > Pedro Soares > Erik Pilawskii > Sandy Adam > > I will continue with other pages as I can. If there are only two to > four images on a page, then that person's section won't be changed with > the new layout. > > I'm a little burned out updating Sandy's pages. ;-) As I change these > pages, I'm still amazed at the level of skill this list represents. > Excellent work everybody!! =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | "Without love, life's just a long fight" - SSJ University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:14:36 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: More updates Message-ID: <7a.4623b84.26373a8c@aol.com> In a message dated Tue, 25 Apr 2000 2:09:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Matt Bittner" writes: > So far I have changed the layout of the following list members: > > Mine > Alberto Casirati > Pedro Soares > Erik Pilawskii > Sandy Adam > > I will continue with other pages as I can. If there are only two to > four images on a page, then that person's section won't be changed with > the new layout. > > I'm a little burned out updating Sandy's pages. ;-) As I change these > pages, I'm still amazed at the level of skill this list represents. > Excellent work everybody!! > > > Matt Bittner > http://www.geocities.com/ipmsfortcrook > http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/FrenchWW1 > > Matt. Feel free to change the layout of mine as well. It now has 38 images on it, so maybe it's worth the effort. Thanks. Otis > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:36:02 -0500 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Slightly off topic OT question Message-ID: Actually, WWI was "forecast" by the American Civil War: trench warfare, observation ballons, the submarine, and forest green uniforms worn by an element of the Union army, just to name a few. Paul >>War as we currently know didn't exist in 1914. Drab uniforms were in its infancy, being the british experiences in India and South Africa the only practical precedents in the use of low-vis uniformity on the field. I guess that the european countries werent in a hurry to change their looks in 1914. Most of the european wars up to that date were "position" wars, with armies moving in the open, forming lines, etc., so the coloured uniforms had the same practical reason than the colorful airplanes of the germans: easy recognition of friend or foe.<< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:39:50 -0400 From: Chris Anderson To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Slight clarification! Message-ID: Hi again, I know this may bore some, but what I'd like in relation to the Osprey Alb is to make a stab at addressing the 5-or-so% that is wrong or questionable, in the interests of accuracy, not to put down what I think is an EXCELLENT effort! The handful of errors just might include something one of us may use in future projects. I know a D.II from a D.III, I know about the red vrs. black debate on Baumer's J5 Alb, etc., I'm just curious to know if anyone else had other issues to raise, ones which I and others may be blissfully ignorant of. But don't worry, after all the research, I always fall back to Dicta Ira, even before I'd ever heard of it! Thanks very much to those who already responded, and in advance to any who still will, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:03:54 -0700 From: "laskodi" To: "Post WW1 List" Subject: Attention Nieuport Experten---Got A Question Message-ID: <001001bfaee9$012554e0$303819d0@laskodi> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFAEAE.53E4A860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm about to embark on building the Eduard 1:48 Nieuport 23 kit (8075) = which features box top art of the "Boris" "Bob" machine flown by the = Russians. Question to all, the Squadron Nieuport book has both an = illustration and photo (page 30) of this machine and identifies it as a = Nie 17, most likely due to the center mounted machine gun. Now I know it = is really difficult to tell the difference between the 17 and 23 since = the engine (in some) and the gun location (in some) are different. Does = any one have any knowledge of photo's of "Bob" with the gun offset and = is this really a Nie 23? TIA ----The other "Bob"=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFAEAE.53E4A860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm about to embark on building the Eduard 1:48 = Nieuport 23=20 kit (8075) which features box top art of the "Boris" "Bob" machine flown = by the=20 Russians. Question to all, the Squadron Nieuport book has both an = illustration=20 and photo (page 30) of this machine and identifies it as a Nie 17, most = likely=20 due to the center mounted machine gun. Now I know it is really difficult = to tell=20 the difference between the 17 and 23 since the engine (in some) and the = gun=20 location (in some) are different. Does any one have any knowledge of = photo's of=20 "Bob" with the gun offset and is this really a Nie 23?
TIA
----The other "Bob" 
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFAEAE.53E4A860-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:02:32 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: modern warfare in 1914 Message-ID: <01fc01bfaee8$cfab02c0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Paul I'm no expert, neither in WW1 nor in the Civil War, but may I differ from your opinion? Altough the American Civil War gave a glimpse of modern industrial times in warfare, a horrible glimpse of the wars to come, the nature of the Civil War was more tied to a "movement" war than a stalemate as the Great War. Technology was a decisive factor in WW1, many authors have said that it was the first "industrial" war ever. I have to recognize though that the innovations that you have mentioned were present in WW1 (in a more significant way), and let me add some others: modern military surgery, anestethics, use of railways to mobilize troops and materiel, attacks to the civilian population as a way to inflict harm to the enemy's military power.... besides WW1, the french-prussian war of 1870 would have been a good lesson to the french on what they could expect from their neighbors... However, the opportunity was lost. And not for the last time... Ah, ce sont très amusantes ces guerres, n'est ce pas? D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:09:16 -0700 From: "laskodi" To: "Post WW1 List" Subject: Attention Nieuport Experten---Got A Question Message-ID: <002201bfaee9$c0dd3a00$303819d0@laskodi> I'm about to embark on building the Eduard 1:48 Nieuport 23 kit (8075) which features box top art of the "Boris" "Bob" machine flown by the Russians. Question to all, the Squadron Nieuport book has both an illustration and photo (page 30) of this machine and identifies it as a Nie 17, most likely due to the center mounted machine gun. Now I know it is really difficult to tell the difference between the 17 and 23 since the engine (in some) and the gun location (in some) are different. Does any one have any knowledge of photo's of "Bob" with the gun offset and is this really a Nie 23? TIA ----The other "Bob" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:03:11 +0100 From: "Nigel Rayner" To: Subject: Re: Lest we forget Message-ID: <001801bfaee8$e7f37100$9ab1883e@nigelr> I've welcomed the posts about Gallipoli and how important it is for us all to remember such important events for a number of reasons. Just this morning I heard on the BBC's Today programme a discussion about Gallipoli, in which historians were concerned that the "unstructured" way history is taught today (in the UK) means the only way children can empathise with the participants is through film and tv, media with a poor reputation for accuracy at best. So what's my point? Well, it's this. For me, this is where we come in. There is (for me at least) a serious side to our hobby. I know at times we can seem a bit sad with our obsession over lozenge colours, the placement of the left-handed whattchamacallit and whatever, but part of what I enjoy about the hobby is creating (reasonably) accurate miniatures that get people interested in the period. Our strangely coloured models of fragile-looking stick and wire machines often stimulate questions from people, particularly if they don't know much about the period. We then have the opportunity to share some of our knowledge and help people understand why they should still care about the events of WWI and the sacrifices of many, many men and women. Miniatures can help build that missing empathy, particularly with the young. If we can help people question some of the revisionist teaching of history (or bad movies or tv), that's a good thing too. Maudlin mode off. Regards, Nigel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:06:03 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: lozenge ? Message-ID: <3905EC9B.7AE3D94F@bgamld.bg.am.lodz.pl> Mark Miller : > Don't get me wrong, as a modeler I love it, but has anyone stopped to ask what the hell they were thinking. [...] > So - I was just wondering if anyone has come across some kind of rational for this > > Mark > > Limon3 answered: > >... The real reason was so > that 80 odd years on, we modelers would have such a lovely time beating our > collective heads against the wall........ > ;-) Gabe And that's correct answer. What would we talk about if there was no lozenge? Germans HQ just wanted to complicate our life ;-)) But seriously Check history of art of beginning XX century, that style of paintig - small colour dots to show bigger area of some shade was used by impressionists(?), mayby one crazy artist joined German Army and created such intelligent camouflage scheme. -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:12:00 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Stropp Help Message-ID: <3905EE00.F62E30D1@bgamld.bg.am.lodz.pl> bucky@ptdprolog.net napisa³(a): > > So, Question #1. What did I do wrong w/ the wash? Maybe try to cover Sand with some kind of acrylic clear cote. Whet dry it wont react with wash. I always work that way. Q.2 Sorry i dont' know answer -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 2000 12:16:14 -0700 From: Mark Miller To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: More Camel Pix... Message-ID: <20000425191614.29094.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> On Tue, 25 April 2000, "DAVID BURKE" wrote: > > Hey Kids, > > Just to let y'all know that Allan and I finally got our bugs worked out > and so the other 5 pics of the Camel under construction are now up, > including 2 extra views of the seat, and other stuff. Just look at my > little slice of the Image Gallery and they're right there! > > NOW- If I can only find some of those parts I've mislaid... > > DB I'm impressed you don't realy mean to bury all that beautiful work inside a sopwith camel do you? Mark _______________________________________________________________________ Why pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now! http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go _______________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:05:46 -0400 From: Mark Vaughan-Jackson To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Lest we forget Message-ID: Hear, Hear Nigel. Actually wasn't there a thread along these lines a week or so back tied in to those lovely Ebay photo albums. I mentioned then how struck I was at how young all those soldiers looked. I also remember rambling on about one reason why I enjoy knowing as much as I can about the pilots who flew the machines I choose to build is that it adds to my own understanding of this period of history. It also means that, in a small way admittedly, those young men on all sides won't be forgotten Having gone through school not all that long ago (well only just more than a decade ago anyway) I can sympathise with any student trying to empathise with a film or video that is - with lamentably few exceptions - a tad hamfisted with its historical accuracy. Modeling can, and does, add to the appreciation of the history. I was part of the organizing committee for a model show and contest here in Newfoundland last weekend. Alas mine was the only OT entry but I was immensely gratified when a young lad of about 15 came up to me and asked "did that thing really fly?? It looks so skinny." That led on to a short but highly enjoyable discussion about the Ni 17, World War One Aviation in general and the fact that yes, people did actually fly and fight and die in these mechanical dragonflies. Now I know what a teacher feels like when they see the light come on in their students eyes. this young feller was absolutely captivated by it all..we would have gone on and on but his mother dragged him off :-0 And , again agreeing with Nigel, maudlin mode off. Mark V-J ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 2000 12:48:10 -0700 From: Mark Miller To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Evaluation of new Osprey Albatros book Message-ID: <20000425194810.10965.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> On Tue, 25 April 2000, "laskodi" wrote: > > Hear, hear, Tom. > My sentiments exactly. > The book as published is over 95% correct (IMHO) and in this age of digital > publishing that is about all one can ask for. The old days of an editor > "slaving" over an authors input have passed due to the economic realities of > the new millenium. > -----Bob I can vouch for that I work in an in-house publications department for a large corporation and standards for what is acceptable in a document have changed drasticly over the past 10 yrs. Everybody is an amature publications person now and it seems that as a long as the message gets through nobdy cares about spelling, punctuation or grammer. This trend has effected the graphic content as well - it makes me shudder to see some of the stuff that we let out the door. but that's just the way it is . Now before anyone jumps all over me about my own horrible spelling and grammer let me say - I'm not an editor! I'm an illustrator - and we're supposed to be half illiterate. Mark _______________________________________________________________________ Why pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now! http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go _______________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:52:29 EDT From: Zulis@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Paul Gaudette Books Message-ID: << Dave The recent BBC documentary Walking With Dinosaurs is triggering a new Dinosaur publishing blitz. Now would be a good time to start grabbing those OT books whilst I am thus distracted. >> Hey - how 'bout them Raptors, eh? :-) << nl: Bob explaining 1 1/2 Strutter serials ... >> oh no..... Dave Z ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:32:47 +0200 From: Witold Kozakiewicz To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Need Help On Albatros D.III OEF Message-ID: <3905F2DF.6FBCEA32@bgamld.bg.am.lodz.pl> Matthew Zivich napisa³(a): > > Witold, > > Can you identify the wire on the left or port side of the aircraft that > started on the underside of the wing and attached to the same side cabane strut, > then traveled to the rear on the surface of the fuselage and entered the interior > of the fuselage slightly to the left and front of the cockpit? I'm thinking it > had to be connected to the radiator and an interior gauge possibly. > You gave a very detailed description of the Oeffag Alb and I admit I briefly > read over it, but can you also identify the access door that is a vertical > rectangle with rounded corners on either side of the fuselage just in front of > the cockpit This too is unique to the Oeffag aircraft. > > Matt Z. I know what you are talking about, but today morning I started some renovations in my home and all stuff is packed and I really do not know where that books are :-)). Please wait few days, I'll check and answer. Now I will be using little bigger brush. I hope my walls will not be lozenge pattern. Wish me luck. -- Witold Kozakiewicz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:06:05 +0100 From: "Francisca e Pedro" To: Subject: Re: Stropp Help Message-ID: <000101bfaef4$b317d500$4ddf41c2@pc1> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 3:30 AM Subject: Re: Stropp Help > Mike: > > I have had similar experiences with thinned enamel washes over an enamel > base. I have had better results washing a dissimilar material over the base. > Like acrylic or watercolor (from pencil) wash over an enamel base or the > other way round with a thinned enamel wash over well dried acrylic. > hth > sp > > Mike, I subscribe entirely to what Yoda Perry said. Even if they look to be very dry, it's always better to do washes in a different medium than the base coat. Future and watercolour or well thinned acrylic, work very well over enamel. (BTW when using water soluble stuff like acrylics, I usually add a very tiny drop of photo weting agent (regular dish washing detergent also works). It does make a difference, since it breaks surface tension and get the wash to flow evenly over the ase coat. Lately, I've taken to adding shadows directly with the watercolour pencils (make sure they are sharp and that you have a matt base coat). I find the results very pleasing. I fix the watercolour with a buff of an almost (very impotant) dry cotton bud immersed in future. Once this first fixing coat is dry you can go over again with a much wetter future coat, since the watercolour won't dissolve now. HTH Pedro nb. czechmaster SPAD XIII. Matt, I want to hear how the hell you plan to rig this one....and pay attention to the fuselage seam....pertty hard to deal with. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:45:50 -0400 From: Matthew Zivich To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: lozenge vs. pointilism Message-ID: <390603FD.113A8CF5@svsu.edu> Witold Kozakiewicz wrote: > Mark Miller : > > Don't get me wrong, as a modeler I love it, but has anyone stopped to ask what the hell they were thinking. > [...] > > So - I was just wondering if anyone has come across some kind of rational for this > > > > Mark > > > > > > Limon3 answered: > > > >... The real reason was so > > that 80 odd years on, we modelers would have such a lovely time beating our > > collective heads against the wall........ > > ;-) Gabe > > And that's correct answer. What would we talk about if there was no > lozenge? > Germans HQ just wanted to complicate our life ;-)) > > But seriously Check history of art of beginning XX century, that style > of paintig - small colour dots to show bigger area of some shade was > used by impressionists(?), mayby one crazy artist joined German Army > and created such intelligent camouflage scheme. > -- > Witold Kozakiewicz Many artists near the end of the 19th century were influenced by the color usage of Georges Seurat who developed a method of using small dabs of pure color that would result in an optical mixture at a certain distance. In the U.S. his method is known as pointilism or divisionism in Great Britain. There were many influences on Seurat particularly by his predecessors, the Impressionists, but also by the color uses of commercial designers such as the weavers at the Gobelins tapestry factory. Seurat and his followers were interested in achieving luminosity on the surface of a painting and maintaining a trueness to the act of painting, whereby the obviousness of the pigments and their respective expressiveness would remain. Perhaps some of these color ideas eventually trickled down to be used by German aircraft designers. It might make an interesting subject to link a connection here like that Connections program on TV. Certainly the German designers were very progressive in their use of modern materials that found other uses after the war such as the use of formed plywood and welded, lightweight metal constructions later used in furniture design at the Bauhaus. Matt Z. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:50:46 -0500 From: "Lance Krieg" To: Subject: Re: lozenge & camouflage Message-ID: This thread has brought to mind an experience at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra, where I chanced upon a very attractive young lady repainting a WWI German railway gun barrel. She was carefully matching the previous painted outlines, and using god-awful shades of lime green, mustard yellow, and pumpkin orange, all outlined in black. Unable to believe that the colors were authentic, I asked her about them. I assumed she was either a docent or some functionary from the maintenance department, but she was in fact a very highly-educated historian, who undertook the work herself to ensure that it was perfect. She explained that the museum had taken great pains to match the paints, and that they had ensured the colors were correct by exposing the various layers down to the one that was covered with the graffiti of the capturing Australian regiment - and matching those hues precisely. To my modern eye, the colors chosen seemed absurdly garish to call "camouflage", especially compared with the more sophisticated schemes of WWII and the modern era. But as I drove away, and the gun receded in the distance, the intensity of the colors faded and effectively broke up the outline. I guess they knew what they were doing... Wish I was in Canberra right now... maybe the aircraft gallery is finally finished? Lance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:07:44 -0500 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: More Camel Pix... Message-ID: <006b01bfaefd$c3a395e0$f682aec7@dora9sprynet.com> Hey Bob, Sorry, but I don't think that I could manage the project in 1/48 except for the props, and though I hate to pass the buck, but Eric Hight has some nice 1/48 hand-carved props for sale at CSM. It'll be a while before I get the stones again to try another seat even in 1/28! DB -----Original Message----- From: laskodi To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 1:07 PM Subject: Re: More Camel Pix... >Hey David, could I contract with you to provide me some wicker seats and >props in 1:48 scale! >Darn good work, I am highly impressed with your manual dexterity and keen >eyesight! Wish I had both! >-----Bob >----- Original Message ----- >From: "DAVID BURKE" >To: "Multiple recipients of list" >Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:34 AM >Subject: More Camel Pix... > > >> Hey Kids, >> >> Just to let y'all know that Allan and I finally got our bugs worked >out >> and so the other 5 pics of the Camel under construction are now up, >> including 2 extra views of the seat, and other stuff. Just look at my >> little slice of the Image Gallery and they're right there! >> >> NOW- If I can only find some of those parts I've mislaid... >> >> DB >> >> > > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2287 **********************