WWI Digest 2260 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) definitive kits by "Paul E. Thompson" 2) Re: wire wheels & LVG by Steve Cox 3) Re: wire wheels & LVG by "Charles and Linda Duckworth" 4) Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? by skarver@banet.net 5) copyright ? by Mark Miller 6) Re: Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? by Joey Valenciano 7) Re: Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? by skarver@banet.net 8) Re: Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? by skarver@banet.net 9) And what's with the Fok. E.III empennage? by skarver@banet.net 10) Re: copyright ? by "Andrew Ronayne" 11) Re: copyright ? by Mark Miller 12) Re: Champlin Fighter Museum by ERIC HIGHT 13) Re: Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? by "Limon3" 14) That is, oddly enough, why it is called copyRIGHT. by solvista 15) Re: copyright ? by Otisgood@aol.com 16) Re: Albatros D.III color questions by "Limon3" 17) Re: Albatros D.III color questions by Otisgood@aol.com 18) copyright ? - no gray areas by solvista 19) copyright - so people could play with them! by solvista 20) Re: Next course--another ebay album by Ernest Thomas 21) Re: Champlin Fighter Museum by Lee Mensinger 22) Re: copyright - so people could play with them! by Ray Boorman 23) Re: Champlin Fighter Museum by Albatrosdv@aol.com 24) Re: Next course--another ebay album by Ray Boorman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:53:12 +0200 From: "Paul E. Thompson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: definitive kits Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000415085312.007e2100@pop.xs4all.nl> Andrew, My tuppence worth on 2-seaters, if you can find one and can handle vacs, is to consider the Kostner Hannover . This makes up into a very impressive representation, comes with most of what's needed, and for a vac is a IMHO easy build. I built mine in parallel with the Eduard version, and the vac was a damn site easier than the early Eduard plastic. I guess it all depends on how gullible your wife is, 'cos it's not cheap. The relevant Datafile gives quite a good feel for the aircraft, plus a lot of interior details and the handy info that if you can't handle the idea of hand-painting the larger fuselage lozenge and overspray there were examples in overal light blue. But then you probably need a source of spoked wheels...ho hum. Apopogies foe a (slightly) ot request. I recently picked up an unnamed resin 1/72 kit of the Breguet XIX, which as far as I know was a mid twenties biplane. There are instructions in French and plans but no decals, although a colour and marking scheme is included on the plans. Does anyone know anything about the kit and/or the aircraft? It only cost 200 Belgian francs, which is worth about a cup of coffee in most countries, and appears quite good, but I've no idea of accuracy. TIA. BTW, anyone notice the 2 shots of a Roland D2 amongst the e-bay triple album? Cheers Paul Thompson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:21:43 +0100 From: Steve Cox To: Subject: Re: wire wheels & LVG Message-ID: Shane, I only have the one, and that shows only an oblique view of the top of the control panel, but I have put it on my web site: http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk/STEVE/LVG/LVG.html PS - Lucky yes sod no Regards Steve =========================================== steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk If I didn't spend so much time on line ‹‹ I'd get some models finished ================ > From: Shane Weier > Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:09:22 -0400 (EDT) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: wire wheels > You don't by any chance have any cockpit pics of the LVG? > > I have every published pic already, and still need some answers ! > > Shane > > (PS - lucky sod) > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:17:59 -0500 From: "Charles and Linda Duckworth" To: Subject: Re: wire wheels & LVG Message-ID: <001e01bfa6dd$078b0dc0$2c2c57d8@cnlduckwor> Great source, it makes one wish Shuttleworth would have done a book on the LVG restoration as the NASM did with the Bleroit, D.V and D.H.4. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Cox To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Saturday, April 15, 2000 7:24 AM Subject: Re: wire wheels & LVG >Shane, I only have the one, and that shows only an oblique view of the top >of the control panel, but I have put it on my web site: >http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk/STEVE/LVG/LVG.html > >PS - Lucky yes sod no > >Regards >Steve >=========================================== >steve@oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk >http://www.oldglebe.freeserve.co.uk > If I didn't spend so much time on line > ‹‹ I'd get some models finished > ================ > >> From: Shane Weier >> Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu >> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:09:22 -0400 (EDT) >> To: Multiple recipients of list >> Subject: RE: wire wheels > >> You don't by any chance have any cockpit pics of the LVG? >> >> I have every published pic already, and still need some answers ! >> >> Shane >> >> (PS - lucky sod) >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:54:16 -0400 From: skarver@banet.net To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? Message-ID: <38F87488.FACB5DAC@banet.net> I'd love to cllear up this long-term annoying nit. What's the source for the red band on Udet's Fokker E.III. Oh, I know RR painted it that way. But what made him do it? Regards, SK ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 2000 06:59:47 -0700 From: Mark Miller To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: copyright ? Message-ID: <20000415135947.1596.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Hi I was wondering if you scan a published plan into a draw program (like Coreldraw) and trace it, then delete the scan is the drawing still copyrighted ? Mark ____________________________________________________________________ For the largest MP3 index on the Web, go to http://mp3.altavista.com ____________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 22:13:06 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000415221306.01706100@philonline.com> Hi all! Probably because many pilots used the 3 colors of the flag, red/wht/blk >I'd love to cllear up >this long-term annoying >nit. >What's the source for the >red band on Udet's Fokker >E.III. >Oh, I know RR painted it >that way. But what made >him do it? >Regards, >SK > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 10:22:47 -0400 From: skarver@banet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? Message-ID: <38F87B36.FB60A2FD@banet.net> So it's just a guess, eh? IMHO, the tonalities of the photo of EU in the cockpit don't support red. SK Joey Valenciano wrote: > Hi all! > > Probably because many pilots used the 3 colors of the flag, red/wht/blk > > >I'd love to cllear up > >this long-term annoying > >nit. > >What's the source for the > >red band on Udet's Fokker > >E.III. > >Oh, I know RR painted it > >that way. But what made > >him do it? > >Regards, > >SK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 10:24:39 -0400 From: skarver@banet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? Message-ID: <38F87BA7.160A6691@banet.net> Pardon this ignorant question, but which flag? SK Joey Valenciano wrote: > Hi all! > > Probably because many pilots used the 3 colors of the flag, red/wht/blk > > >I'd love to cllear up > >this long-term annoying > >nit. > >What's the source for the > >red band on Udet's Fokker > >E.III. > >Oh, I know RR painted it > >that way. But what made > >him do it? > >Regards, > >SK > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 10:31:58 -0400 From: skarver@banet.net To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: And what's with the Fok. E.III empennage? Message-ID: <38F87D5D.1593D0CC@banet.net> Even with the DF, cannot figure out the mounting of the all-flying tail group for the early Fokkers. (Morane Saulnier should have sued for theft of intellectual property, but I guess the issue of theft of real property had to be dealt with first, ummh?) Anyway, how is are tube connecting the tailplanes and tail itself attached to the fuselage. Fokker didn't use CA also, did he? SK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:43:40 +1000 From: "Andrew Ronayne" To: Subject: Re: copyright ? Message-ID: <007801bfa6e8$fe53ee00$d54e8ec6@t9hf2> If it's copied verbatum, then I guess the answer is yes, as the trace would not exist without the original copyrighted source. The bottom line is you're using someone else's work to create your image, you're not creating it from scratch yourself. A lawyer or politician might see it differently. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Miller" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Sunday, 16 April 2000 12:07 Subject: copyright ? > Hi > I was wondering if you scan a published plan into a draw program (like Coreldraw) and trace it, then delete the scan is the drawing still copyrighted ? > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 2000 08:31:20 -0700 From: Mark Miller To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: copyright ? Message-ID: <20000415153120.23567.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Andrew Wow that seems pretty restrictive by that definition the only drawing that you could consider "yours" would be one in which you got dimensions for personaly off an existing aircraft. I guess it hinges on the definition of "verbatum" - you never get the exact same drawing - and the whole point of getting a vector based drawing is so that you can fool with it. But on the other hand this is a technical illustration and there is only one right answer, so if an illustrator gets the dimensions of a profile perfect does that give him rights to every dimensionaly correct profile done after him. Then again you are using the original illustartors work - there must be a gray area in here somewhere this makes my head hurt - legat stuff is so annoying My reason for asking was that I have some files which I traced from a variety of sources using Corel draw which I then exported into Microstation (3D CAD) using a DXF conversion. I was thinking of sending them to Allan so people could play with them but ... Mark > If it's copied verbatum, then I guess the answer is yes, as the trace would > not exist without the original copyrighted source. > > The bottom line is you're using someone else's work to create your image, > you're not creating it from scratch yourself. A lawyer or politician might > see it differently. > > Andrew > > Hi > > I was wondering if you scan a published plan into a draw program (like > Coreldraw) and trace it, then delete the scan is the drawing still > copyrighted ? > > > > Mark ____________________________________________________________________ For the largest MP3 index on the Web, go to http://mp3.altavista.com ____________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:35:56 -0700 From: ERIC HIGHT To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Champlin Fighter Museum Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000415083556.00bfa94c@pop.amug.org> john, it is still there and open. as usuall tom is all WET!!! it won't be moving for at least three years and maybe not even then. this the second time the museum ahd been "sold" to seatle. seatle has to raise the money for the building and no move will be made untill there is a place for the collection. this comes from the horse's mouth(doug champlin). it is well worth the trip out to mesa to see it. give me a call when you get in town maybe we can meet. regards, eric At 11:16 PM 4/14/00 -0400, you wrote: >Is the Champlin Fighter Museum still in operation outside Phoenix, or have >they moved all the planes to Seattle yet? I'll be spending a week in >Scottsdale next month with at least a day's free time. > >Eric, can you help? Is it still open? > >Thanks. > >- John > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:49:56 -0700 From: "Limon3" To: Subject: Re: Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? Message-ID: <002f01bfa6f2$406dd720$bcbf113f@f4w2s5> The red - white - black were the colors of the German flag of the era, black on top. Regards, Gabe -----Original Message----- From: skarver@banet.net To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Saturday, April 15, 2000 7:32 AM Subject: Re: Udet's Fok. E.III--Why the red? >Pardon this ignorant question, but which flag? >SK > >Joey Valenciano wrote: > >> Hi all! >> >> Probably because many pilots used the 3 colors of the flag, red/wht/blk >> >> >I'd love to cllear up >> >this long-term annoying >> >nit. >> >What's the source for the >> >red band on Udet's Fokker >> >E.III. >> >Oh, I know RR painted it >> >that way. But what made >> >him do it? >> >Regards, >> >SK >> > >> > >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:48:42 +0100 From: solvista To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: That is, oddly enough, why it is called copyRIGHT. Message-ID: > >I was wondering if you scan a published plan into a draw program >(like Coreldraw) and trace it, then delete the scan is the drawing >still copyrighted ? What part of "copy" is hard to understand? 'course, you could do it the way the very first artist to do a profile ever did it . . . . . . . Figure that out and you'll have no probs at all. Best of luck. (just be sure it isn't one of MY drawings is all . . . . .) :) Peter Jones Artist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:48:04 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: copyright ? Message-ID: In a message dated 4/15/00 9:05:32 AM Central Daylight Time, albatros1212@altavista.com writes: > Hi > I was wondering if you scan a published plan into a draw program (like > Coreldraw) and trace it, then delete the scan is the drawing still > copyrighted ? > > Mark Trying to recall from my law school days, any original work is "copyrighted" the moment it is created; however, to protect the copyright it is necessary to obtain a copyright registration which is valid for 28 years and can be renewed for another 28 years, after which point the product passes into the public domain where it may be reproduced without restriction. SO, in this case, I guess your "tracing" is copyrighted by you as your original reproduction of the original work. Where you might run afoul of copyright law is if you tried to pass off your tracing as the original work. It's been 20 years since I finished law school and I admittedly have not kept up with this area of the law, so someone else out there may have more current info. Otis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:55:07 -0700 From: "Limon3" To: Subject: Re: Albatros D.III color questions Message-ID: <003f01bfa6f2$f99744c0$bcbf113f@f4w2s5> I have also read from various sources that the wing undersides were sometimes pale yellow (probably CDL), has there ever been any proof of this? Isn't it so much fun figuring out WWI colors (colours)!!!! Gabe. -----Original Message----- From: KarrArt@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Friday, April 14, 2000 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Albatros D.III color questions >In a message dated 4/14/00 6:42:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >skarver@banet.net writes: > ><< o pick > 1. Was the common scheme > green/brown or > green/mauve uppers, CDL > or light blue unders? >> > > generally it's a time thing- the earlier D.IIIs would've left the factory >with green/ brown. I'd have to go a-diggin' to find out if any brand new ones >had the mauve- and if they did, it would've been late late production. Also, >most likely the light blue was standard. >RK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:54:48 EDT From: Otisgood@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Albatros D.III color questions Message-ID: In a message dated 4/14/00 8:42:51 PM Central Daylight Time, skarver@banet.net writes: > 2. Stained or light-color > wood fuselage > 3. Are light-colored > metal areas light gray > (as opposed to glossy > mid-green) or can they be > unpainted? >>From photos I have seen, it appears that the dark stained fuselages were more common on the DI and DII variants; although some earlier DIIIs seem to have them as well. I think later models sported the "clear" varnish. Metal panels were both gray and green ex-works, and ended up other colors once in the field. I think unpainted panels would be rare and I wouldn't go that route without specific documentation. Otis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 17:00:41 +0100 From: solvista To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: copyright ? - no gray areas Message-ID: > >there must be a gray area in here somewhere Nope. "What's mine is mine, and it is not yours, don't touch, or else." meaning . . . "He who infringes gets a visit from the Sheriff. Unless they are in the UK, where we don't have Sheriffs - in that case, my lawyer will be around with a writ by next week. "It goes something like this > "I do not wish you to use my aeroplane drawing. If however you feel you must use my aeroplane drawing my fee is (write in the average fee per hour spent to make the drawing by the artist or the industry going rate for the license had you legitimately ever sought to acquire said license or better still, any extra damages you can think of that might arise from "improper use" of the artists work, or better still, for "passing off" the said artist's work.") Passing-off? Whassat? Ah yes, sometimes that affords even better damages if the work was "passed off" as yours when really it was mine originally. Hey, this list is getting exciting! Unless of course you get me to write some long trailing diatribe (don't!) on "fair use" which might take up all of this weekend's bandwidth and more . . . . Have fun with your dividers chaps. :) Peter Jones Artist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 17:15:44 +0100 From: solvista To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: copyright - so people could play with them! Message-ID: --============_-1256307141==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >My reason for asking was that I have some files which I traced from >a variety of sources using Corel draw which I then exported into >Microstation (3D CAD) using a DXF conversion. I was thinking of >sending them to Allan so people could play with them but ... Wow! Better still! = "GRANTING A LICENSE TO OTHER PARTIES TO USE the said work as well as copying it" Now we are really talking good meaty legal stuff. A case like this might take at least a year to come to court. At least three parties (and therefore 3 lawyers involved) so we are talking multiple costs as well as damages for infringement maybe? Excellent. Where can I find a few of you willing to "acquire" some of my work without asking me? This is wonderful, I came here to find out what you all know about Fokker DVII's and as a bonus I find a potential extra income stream! :) Seriously, all joking around (sort of) aside, I think you should think twice about this and certainly about mentioning it. I mean, if it WERE mine, the Sheriff's siren would be audible at the end of your drive by now. Just my (very experienced) advice. OK? I mean, by all means mail me off-list and I'll cite the publishers I have taken out over the years for just such actions, and we aren't talking tiny weeny out in the hills publishers either . . . . Peter Jones Artist --============_-1256307141==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" copyright - so people could play with them!

My reason for asking was that I have some files which I traced from a variety of sources using Corel draw which I then exported into Microstation (3D CAD) using a DXF conversion.  I was thinking of sending them to  Allan so people could play with them but ...


Wow!

Better still!

= "GRANTING A LICENSE TO OTHER PARTIES TO USE the said work as well as copying it"

Now we are really talking good meaty legal stuff. A case like this might take at least a year to come to court. At least three parties (and therefore 3 lawyers involved) so we are talking multiple costs as well as damages for infringement maybe?

Excellent.

Where can I find a few of you willing to "acquire" some of my work without asking me?

This is wonderful, I came here to find out what you all know about Fokker DVII's and as a bonus I find a potential extra income stream!

:)

Seriously, all joking around (sort of) aside, I think you should think twice about this and certainly about mentioning it. I mean, if it WERE mine, the Sheriff's siren would be audible at the end of your drive by now.

Just my (very experienced) advice. OK? I mean, by all means mail me off-list and I'll cite the publishers I have taken out over the years for just such actions, and we aren't talking tiny weeny out in the hills publishers either . . . .

Peter Jones
Artist

--============_-1256307141==_ma============-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:28:00 -0500 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Next course--another ebay album Message-ID: <38F8A69F.62C0BF8D@bellsouth.net> --------------505EA76B8362E94386D87421 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Ronayne wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=308064294 > > I decided it was more of an entree than the other offerings ;^) I've tried 4 times and all I get is the top half of the first picture. Anyone else having this trouble? E. --------------505EA76B8362E94386D87421 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Andrew Ronayne wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=308064294

I decided it was more of an entree than the other offerings ;^)

I've tried 4 times and all I get is the top half of the first picture. Anyone else having this trouble?
E.
 
  --------------505EA76B8362E94386D87421-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:27:17 -0500 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Champlin Fighter Museum Message-ID: <38F8A675.EA0BC824@wireweb.net> This is very close to what I heard as well. I read more about it in a Seattle release which stated they were contracting for the building to house the exhibit and it would be finished in a couple of years. The article included some color photos of some of the present aircraft collection and the building, which obviously will not hold all of the Champlin Aircraft at present. Lee M ERIC HIGHT wrote: > john, > it is still there and open. as usuall tom is all WET!!! it won't be > moving for at least three years and maybe not even then. this the second > time the museum ahd been "sold" to seatle. seatle has to raise the money > for the building and no move will be made untill there is a place for the > collection. this comes from the horse's mouth(doug champlin). it is well > worth the trip out to mesa to see it. > give me a call when you get in town maybe we can meet. > regards, > eric > > At 11:16 PM 4/14/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Is the Champlin Fighter Museum still in operation outside Phoenix, or have > >they moved all the planes to Seattle yet? I'll be spending a week in > >Scottsdale next month with at least a day's free time. > > > >Eric, can you help? Is it still open? > > > >Thanks. > > > >- John > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 10:32:45 -0700 From: Ray Boorman To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: copyright - so people could play with them! Message-ID: <38F8A7BD.9080903@telus.net> I'm being dumb here but why cant you just use pencil or Tech Drawing pen, drawing instruments and without tracing the drawing make a new drawing. Ie using Dividers, French Curves etc make another drawing. I used to do this in my teens with drawings of aircraft etc when I wanted to make larger drawings. Back then we didnt have computers and I didnt have access to a copying machine. This method was commonly done in tech drawing classes etc. Once done the drawing isnt a copy since you didnt trace it you used the drawing as a source, and you can scan it or make isometric drawings etc to your hearts content.  You could even ahem look at other drawings, pictures etc and enhance your version. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:42:40 EDT From: Albatrosdv@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Champlin Fighter Museum Message-ID: <11.2a90a9f.262a0410@aol.com> In a message dated 4/15/00 8:44:16 AM PDT, copperst@sd.amug.org writes: << t is still there and open. as usuall tom is all WET!!! it won't be moving for at least three years and maybe not even then. >> This is one time I am pleased to be *soaking* wet! :-) My information was based on surmises within the aviation museum community that, due to the fact the museum had been bought by the people around Paul Allen, all of who are Microsoft billionaires who have graduated from their flight sims to wanting the real thing, that it would move up there quickly. There's also a lot of fear that these folks are buying those airplanes to fly them. Many of the airplanes in the museum are the only one of their kind left (like the Fw-109D-11), and while they are maintained in flight condition, Doug has said they won't be flown for fear of loss. (Yes, I am a believer in flying warbirds, but not the only ones left - I can just see the "experten" at the Santa Monica Museum of the Flying Tax Break writing off their one-oh-thingie within the year) The computer barbarians OTOH, will only think "it's mine I own it." Admittedly a good solid Republican idea, and certainly the basis of many truly godawful paint jobs on warbirds; I only wish some of these noveau riche would get a sense of noblesse oblige like even the petty Italian thug/princes of the Renaissance had and realize a sense of stewardship. Given that most computer geeks were never socialized to begin with, though, that is likely a vain hope. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 10:46:59 -0700 From: Ray Boorman To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Next course--another ebay album Message-ID: <38F8AB13.4040604@telus.net> I was having this problem with Netscape 6. I copied the link and used Internet Explorer instead and it worked fine. Strange! The funny part was the photos were downloading but when the page completed in netscape all the photo's blanked out. Ray Ernest Thomas wrote: > > --------------505EA76B8362E94386D87421 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Andrew Ronayne wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=308064294 > > > > I decided it was more of an entree than the other offerings ;^) > > I've tried 4 times and all I get is the top half of the first picture. > Anyone else having this trouble? > E. > > > > --------------505EA76B8362E94386D87421 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > >   >

Andrew Ronayne wrote: >

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=308064294 >

I decided it was more of an entree than the other offerings ;^)

> I've tried 4 times and all I get is the top half of the first picture. > Anyone else having this trouble? >
E. >
  >
  > > --------------505EA76B8362E94386D87421-- > > > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2260 ********************** --------------63F400CFD63D653C8E01FDD5--