WWI Digest 2196

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by Albatrosdv@aol.com
  2) Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
	by "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
  3) Re: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by smperry@mindspring.com
  4) RE: decal water holding tank
	by "dfernet0" <dfernet0@rosario.gov.ar>
  5) MoS AI spouting
	by "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
  6) Re: New to you?
	by Witold Kozakiewicz <witulski@bgamld.bg.am.lodz.pl>
  7) Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
	by "Michael Kendix" <mkendix@hotmail.com>
  8) Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
	by "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
  9) Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
	by "Michael Kendix" <mkendix@hotmail.com>
 10) Re: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by Otisgood@aol.com
 11) Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
	by "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
 12) More MoS Type AI
	by "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
 13) Re: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by Otisgood@aol.com
 14) MoS AI magazine question
	by "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
 15) Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
 16) Re: LAPCO recommendations
	by "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
 17) Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by Otisgood@aol.com
 18) <chuckle> Ebay
	by "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
 19) Re: MoS AI spouting
	by ERIC HIGHT <copperst@sd.amug.org>
 20) Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by Otisgood@aol.com
 21) Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
 22) Re: <chuckle> Ebay
	by "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
 23) RE: <chuckle> Ebay
	by "Harris, Mack" <MackH@Health.State.OK.US>
 24) Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by Otisgood@aol.com
 25) Re: <chuckle> Ebay
	by Al Superczynski <modeleral@up-link.net>
 26) Re: <chuckle> Ebay
	by "Ray Boorman" <Ray_Boorman@telus.net>
 27) Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by "Ray Boorman" <Ray_Boorman@telus.net>
 28) RE: <chuckle> Ebay
	by "Harris, Mack" <MackH@Health.State.OK.US>
 29) Re: <chuckle> Ebay
	by "Ray Boorman" <Ray_Boorman@telus.net>
 30) British WWI Aircraft in the Polish Air Force 
	by "Jared Anthony Zichek" <jzichek@hotmail.com>
 31) RE: <chuckle> Ebay & Pflaz D.XII lozenge
	by "Michael Kendix" <mkendix@hotmail.com>
 32) Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
	by Otisgood@aol.com
 33) Spad XIII rigging
	by "Matt Bailey" <mgbailey@my-deja.com>
 34) Voisin E.28
	by "Jared Anthony Zichek" <jzichek@hotmail.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:15:31 EST
From: Albatrosdv@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <ab.16427d5.26009293@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/100 8:02:57 PM EST, sdw@qld.mim.com.au writes:

<< Another perfect example of a situation where we can look hard at the photos
 - then do whatever we like ;-) >>

Thank God!  I only have enough of the good lozenge to do the upcoming project 
that way right now!!  :-)

Tom C

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 05:24:10 -0600
From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
Message-ID: <200003151127.DAA06261@raven.a001.sprintmail.com>

On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:31:36 -0500 (EST), Ray Boorman wrote:

> Salamander has the same problem too. Came very close to flying to the wall
> when doing those. Do you think struts were a generic toko weakness.......

No doubt.  While I can't vouch for fit, the Nie.11/16 'V' struts are
not accurate at all.


Matt Bittner
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 06:33:01 -0500
From: smperry@mindspring.com
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <003301bf8e72$38fbb860$e80156d1@default>



> In a message dated 3/14/100 8:02:57 PM EST, sdw@qld.mim.com.au writes:
>
> << Another perfect example of a situation where we can look hard at the
photos
>  - then do whatever we like ;-)


I am finding several examples where I looked hard at the references while
building, weighed the evidence and made the best decision I could and
built/painted/decaled that way. I look at the same references a year later
and look at the model and wonder exactly what I was thnking because now it's
obvious as hell I missed it completely.

Anyone else suffer from this form of dementia?

sp


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:44:52 -0300
From: "dfernet0" <dfernet0@rosario.gov.ar>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: RE: decal water holding tank
Message-ID: <015b01bf8e73$e03339e0$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar>

Mike:
I use a small whisky glass (6cm. diameter) with lukewarm water inside. I wet
the paper backing only for a few seconds and let the decal loose down on a
paper towel. it's a transparent container, so if I drop a decal inside I can
see where it is. For very large decals (rare in 1/72) I use the lid of the
squarish biscuit tin where I usually keep my enamel tinlettes.
D.
PS: I'm plenty of whisky glasses. Most of the time, empty.

----- Original Message -----
From: <bucky@ptdprolog.net>
To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:40 PM
Subject: decal water holding tank


> With the recent comments about propagteam decals, and everyone's
> favorite lozenge I pondered: what do people use to hold the water that
> the decals soften in? I use a desert/fruit cup thing....wide at the top,
> fairly shallow, with an elegant little stem!
> Mike Muth
>


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:30:33 -0600
From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: MoS AI spouting
Message-ID: <200003151330.HAA25658@mail2.neonramp.com>

Crap.  Double crap.  I'm working on the superb CMk MoS AI now, and
*was* going to finish it as Shaffer's machine of MSP 156.  However, I
was *just* reading the article in OtF on MSP 156, and they flew MoS
27's and *not* MoS 29's.  What's the difference, you ask?  MoS 27's had
a single gun while MoS 29's had two.  The 29's guns were buried a
little in the forward "cowl", while it appears the MoS 27's gun sat on
top of the cowl.  I could probably fill this area in and deal with it
that way.  However, since CMk provides this area as a separate part, I
also see the possibility of taking a kit part, modifying it
accordingly, and supplying it as an "aftermarket" item.

Now, I wonder if Rand's MoS AI from MSP 158 was a 27 or a 29...

Eric from Copper State - are you providing just the MoS 29 or the
option to build the MoS 27 as well?


Matt Bittner
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:42:20 +0100
From: Witold Kozakiewicz <witulski@bgamld.bg.am.lodz.pl>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: New to you?
Message-ID: <38CF933C.D0E6E494@bgamld.bg.am.lodz.pl>

Have you any information about this planes (Aviatik 30.40 and WKF D.I)
AFAIK WKF was rival of Alb.D.III(oef) as fighter for A-H air forces and
lost  competition. Could anyone say something more?

           Witold Kozakiewicz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 05:56:57 PST
From: "Michael Kendix" <mkendix@hotmail.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
Message-ID: <20000315135657.7267.qmail@hotmail.com>

>
>No doubt.  While I can't vouch for fit, the Nie.11/16 'V' struts are
>not accurate at all.
>
>

Matt:

What's wrong with them.  Theyt have those little ridges down their length, 
which is not the case for the Rosemont replacements.

Michael

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:03:08 -0600
From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
Message-ID: <200003151403.IAA26144@mail2.neonramp.com>

On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:01:01 -0500 (EST), Michael Kendix wrote:

> What's wrong with them.  Theyt have those little ridges down their length, 
> which is not the case for the Rosemont replacements.

Careful, Michael. ;-)

Those "ridges" are supposed to represent pieces of fabric doped to the
struts.  Those "ridges" are way out of scale.

Plus those wonderful, beautiful Rosemont replacements ;-) has the
"airfoil" end on the bottom like Stef was asking about.  In addition
the struts are too scale.

Can you tell I really like m..uh, Rosemont's struts? ;-)


Matt Bittner
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 06:29:40 PST
From: "Michael Kendix" <mkendix@hotmail.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
Message-ID: <20000315142941.59921.qmail@hotmail.com>

>From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
>Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
>To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
>Subject: Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:07:36 -0500 (EST)
>
>On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:01:01 -0500 (EST), Michael Kendix wrote:
>
> > What's wrong with them.  Theyt have those little ridges down their 
>length,
> > which is not the case for the Rosemont replacements.
>
>Careful, Michael. ;-)
>
>Those "ridges" are supposed to represent pieces of fabric doped to the
>struts.  Those "ridges" are way out of scale.
>
>Plus those wonderful, beautiful Rosemont replacements ;-) has the
>"airfoil" end on the bottom like Stef was asking about.  In addition
>the struts are too scale.
>
>Can you tell I really like m..uh, Rosemont's struts? ;-)
>
>

Matt:

Well what stopped y...err I mean Rosemont, from putting correct scale ridges 
on th struts? :)

Michael

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:35:42 EST
From: Otisgood@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <c1.1998437.2600f9be@aol.com>

A few additional thoughts, and in support of SHane's ideas about randomness(a word?)in the application of lozenge. If any of you have the NASM book, look at page 75. There are B/W photos of the wings, top and bottom. These photos clearly show the alternating directions in which the rolls were applied chordwise. However, even here there is an exception. On the the upper surface of the top wing, one of the rolls (Applied in and around the radiator) was applied in the SAME direction as the roll to the left. The rolls on the right of this peice were applied in the alternating style, and the rolls to the left of the left (confused?) were also applied in the alternating style. I assume this was intentional, at least on teh part of NASM, as they attempted to duplicate the original lozenge in both color and application.
Also, the NASM book states that the original German directive was for the lozenge to receive a final coat of flat over several coats of both taughtening and non-taughtening dope. I'm not sure if the end result was flat or semi-gloss (or eggshell; however, again looking at the photos in the NASM book, particularly page 75, the crosses show up as being much glossier than the lozenge, leading one to conclude that the crosses were applied with a glossy paint over a flatter(by comparison) finish. 

Regarding colors, the book lists the top colors as purple, ochre, green, blue and blue-green, and gives references for metheun color numbers. Now I know there are all kinds of shades of each of these colors, but maybe the artists in our group (Robert are you reading?)could help us out by reconstructing a lozenge and comparing to the decals on the market.
 
I'd be interested in continuing the lozenge conundrum.

Otis.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:36:44 -0600
From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: Flashback and Toko Strutters
Message-ID: <200003151437.IAA19547@mail1.neonramp.com>

On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:34:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Kendix wrote:

> Well what stopped y...err I mean Rosemont, from putting correct scale ridges 
> on th struts? :)

So the modeler has a choice.  Some people represent these by painting
them on only, while others represent them with strips of decal.


Matt Bittner
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:38:26 -0600
From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: More MoS Type AI
Message-ID: <200003151439.IAA19623@mail1.neonramp.com>

I just added a new page and photo's taken by list member Lyle Lamboley
(Thanks, Lyle!) of the Fantasty of Flight's MoS Type AI to my sprint
site.  Here's the URL:

http://home.sprintmail.com/~tbittners/

There are more photo's coming, so watch this list! :-)


Matt Bittner
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:49:44 EST
From: Otisgood@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <3f.2177dab.2600fd08@aol.com>

Absolutely! I studied the NASM reference very thoroughtly while building my version of Stropp, yet I still find things I missed. I think this is because we enter any new learning experience with some preconceived notions, whether derived from our own unique wiring or from other info we've gathered from different sources. When we read/observe something new, it gets filtered through those preconceptions and comes with, at least temporarily, our version of reality. Later, we review it, but through a filter that has been altered by new experiences, and we get a different interpretation of the same thing. The human mind is fascinating.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:59:59 -0600
From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: MoS AI magazine question
Message-ID: <200003151500.JAA27026@mail2.neonramp.com>

I'm searching the web for Morane Saulnier.  Came across a French site
dealing with the magazine _Pegase_.  PEGASE Nø10 JUIN 1978 has an
article about the MoS AI.  Anybody on the list have this magazine?


Matt Bittner
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:23:46 -0600
From: "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <s8cf56ab.026@mail1-fs.amerus.com>

The question of orientation of the lozenge bolts is addressed in the Albatros Fokker D.VII Anthology Volume II, at least insofar as it pertains to D.VIIs.  It appears that OAW "bookmatched" the bolts, or changed the orientation so that the "tops" matched together for two neighboring pieces of fabric.  Fokker-built machines were, apparently, all covered with the "tops" pointing the same direction.

What this means for the Albatros sesquiplanes, of course, is another matter altogether.  But it is clear that some thought was given to the orientation, and different factories had different ideas of the proper way to apply it.

Flipping the pieces of fabric one way or another couldn't have added any additional time to the process; chordwise application offered the same relative fabric strength vis-a-vis warp and woof; so it must have been a question of asthetics.

Would they have bothered to correct a piece that was layed down "wrong"?

At least we've moved on from color, for now...

FWIW,

Lance


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:39:14 -0600
From: "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: LAPCO recommendations
Message-ID: <s8cf5a4a.055@mail1-fs.amerus.com>

Charles asks about Aurora kit accuracy:

"How about the Gotha or DH-4?"

I laid the Aurora DH4 on the MAP plans a couple of weeks ago in response to a different thread, and was mildly surprised at how close they were.

IIRC, the only points of deviation were in the wing tip and tailplane shapes, the kit being rather too small (of course) and rounded too much.  Even the rib and riblets were a good match, as I recall.

I'm not sure how good the MAP plan pack is, of course, but Albatros is updating these plans and is producing a Datafile Special soon.

I haven't done the Gotha, but didn't St. Harry say if you wanted an accurate Gotha you had to scratchbuild it?

Lance


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:46:43 EST
From: Otisgood@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <b8.31db5a4.26010a63@aol.com>

I take it this is the new release from Albatros? I'm glad to see this issue discussed in print, as I've never seen it addressed anywhere before. Thanks, Lance.
BTW, do you know of any references for lozenge-winged Pfalz DIIIa s? Thanks.

Otis

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:48:00 -0600
From: "Matthew Bittner" <tbittners@sprintmail.com>
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: <chuckle> Ebay
Message-ID: <200003151548.JAA27810@mail2.neonramp.com>

Someone on ebay is trying to sell the 1/48th Merlin Albatros D.II for
$23.  <chuckle>


Matt Bittner
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:42:08 -0700
From: ERIC HIGHT <copperst@sd.amug.org>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: MoS AI spouting
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000315084208.009b7dd0@pop.amug.org>

matt,
the ai we are doing is a 29 and 30.  both a/c have two guns.  and it is is
the CORRECT scale!  that being 48th.  hope this helps.
eric



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:56:28 EST
From: Otisgood@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <a8.27f66a5.26010cac@aol.com>

Just had another thought, somewhat related to Shane's earlier comment. Perhaps it was simply a production process. Perhaps OAW (did they produce the Stropp?)applied the lozenge from tables on each side of the wings. Perhaps the bolts arrived folded in such a way that the "tops" were pointing one way, but for speed of production, OAW set up two (or multiple)tables opposite each other on each side of the wings and pulled the bolts out at the same time and stitched them together, meeting in the middle. It may have been faster to apply it this way. Wonder if there is a Daughters of OAW Lozenge Appliers Society (DOLAS, not related to the DURAS)somewhere we could consult?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:59:36 -0600
From: "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <s8cf5f13.023@mail1-fs.amerus.com>

Otis:

"I take it this is the new release from Albatros?" 

Yep.

"BTW, do you know of any references for lozenge-winged Pfalz DIIIa s?" 

Nothing more specific than the relevant  Datafiles and the small booklet published in the 60s-70s.  I'll take a look tonight, and see if any of the photos reveal application details or number of colors. 

How was the lozenge applied on the D.XII?  Or Pfalz-built Halbertadts?  Would this supply a clue?

Lance


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:03:25 -0600
From: "Lance Krieg" <lance.krieg@amerus.com>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: <chuckle> Ebay
Message-ID: <s8cf5ffb.049@mail1-fs.amerus.com>

I will PAY someone $23.00 to remove mine...it might taint my Passchendaele stash.  

Speaking of which, where is the 1/48 Halberstadt, Cyg?

>>> tbittners@sprintmail.com 03/15 9:53 AM >>>
Someone on ebay is trying to sell the 1/48th Merlin Albatros D.II for
$23.  <chuckle>


Matt Bittner
http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm 
http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook 





------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:07:54 -0600
From: "Harris, Mack" <MackH@Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: RE: <chuckle> Ebay
Message-ID: <E163A98BC3D0D2119CAA0000832180C273482F@exchange6.health.state.ok.us>

Did anyone look up his other auctions and see the PKZ helo from WWI?  I've
never seen this kit or heard of it, anyone have or build it?  Also if you
look on the picture of that auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=283200866 and look up
in the upper right corner under the Eduard logo it says "Never fighting
ladies"?  Any ideas or is this just a prank?
Mack

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Matthew Bittner [mailto:tbittners@sprintmail.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:54 AM
		To:	Multiple recipients of list
		Subject:	<chuckle> Ebay

		Someone on ebay is trying to sell the 1/48th Merlin Albatros
D.II for
		$23.  <chuckle>


		Matt Bittner
		http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
		http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook
		

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:13:18 EST
From: Otisgood@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <13.29c762a.2601109e@aol.com>

It certainly might. I looked at my photos of the DXII at Champlin that I took last May. That plane uses a 4 color lozenge that contains rather orangeish polygons where I would normally expect more of a khaki or tan. Also, the rib tapes are strips of lozenge fabric. Unfortunately my photos aren't clear enough to be definitive, but it appears that they were applied in the alternating style discussed earlier because one of the close ups seems to show to like sides butted up to each other; however, its really hard to tell because the lozenge rib tapes add a confusing dimension. Quite possibly we will find that the different manufacturers developed their own peculiar styles and preferences for applying the fabric. Gosh I love this stuff!  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:18:58 -0600
From: Al Superczynski <modeleral@up-link.net>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: <chuckle> Ebay
Message-ID: <uqdvcs0hg954733rsaciokbbjcnpqkel1l@4ax.com>

On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:16:21 -0500 (EST), Mack wrote:

>Any ideas or is this just a prank?

     The seller, Scott Van Aken, is as straight up as they come.  His
eBay feedback rating of 665 with *no* negatives speaks volumes for his
honesty and integrity.

Al
http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:31:48 -0800
From: "Ray Boorman" <Ray_Boorman@telus.net>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: <chuckle> Ebay
Message-ID: <004d01bf8e9b$f5f655a0$9b1335d1@bconnected.net>

This is a real model not a prank, one of Eduards early ones. Theirs also a
mini datafile on it #2 in fact. Its did fly briefly I believe and was an
experimental aircraft developed by a Major Stephan Petroczy he even is said
to have discussed it with a certain Ferdinand Porsche. Any it had 3 rotary
engines pointing in a 3 pointed star arrangement, these drove two props in
the typical helicopter arrangement. If you want to know more look on hannans
runway site as they have a photo of the datafile.
Not suggesting you buy it but at least you'll see what it looked like.
http://www.hrunway.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi look under datafiles heading and
you'll find the picture its MDF #2
----- Original Message -----
From: Harris, Mack <MackH@Health.State.OK.US>
To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:16 AM
Subject: RE: <chuckle> Ebay


> Did anyone look up his other auctions and see the PKZ helo from WWI?  I've
> never seen this kit or heard of it, anyone have or build it?  Also if you
> look on the picture of that auction
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=283200866 and look
up
> in the upper right corner under the Eduard logo it says "Never fighting
> ladies"?  Any ideas or is this just a prank?
> Mack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bittner [mailto:tbittners@sprintmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:54 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: <chuckle> Ebay
>
> Someone on ebay is trying to sell the 1/48th Merlin Albatros
> D.II for
> $23.  <chuckle>
>
>
> Matt Bittner
> http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
> http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:36:48 -0800
From: "Ray Boorman" <Ray_Boorman@telus.net>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <005701bf8e9c$a8d77c80$9b1335d1@bconnected.net>

One question here, isnt this aircraft a restored plane, if it is how
accurate is the lozenge application. In a lot of the restored aircraft this
becomes a minefield for people trying to work out colours and application
pattern. If the research was done with original fabric as some of the recent
restorations have been then it's a whole different kettle of fish erm
lozenge than one that was done say 20 or 30 years ago or one done with best
guesses.

Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: <Otisgood@aol.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum


> It certainly might. I looked at my photos of the DXII at Champlin that I
took last May. That plane uses a 4 color lozenge that contains rather
orangeish polygons where I would normally expect more of a khaki or tan.
Also, the rib tapes are strips of lozenge fabric. Unfortunately my photos
aren't clear enough to be definitive, but it appears that they were applied
in the alternating style discussed earlier because one of the close ups
seems to show to like sides butted up to each other; however, its really
hard to tell because the lozenge rib tapes add a confusing dimension. Quite
possibly we will find that the different manufacturers developed their own
peculiar styles and preferences for applying the fabric. Gosh I love this
stuff!
>


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:38:07 -0600
From: "Harris, Mack" <MackH@Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: RE: <chuckle> Ebay
Message-ID: <E163A98BC3D0D2119CAA0000832180C2734830@exchange6.health.state.ok.us>

I didn't think the kit was a prank or that Scott Van Aken was pulling a
prank, but the wording under the logo, "Never fighting ladies".  I've got a
number of Eduard kits and I've never seen that on the box.
Just curious.
Mack

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Ray Boorman [mailto:Ray_Boorman@telus.net]
		Sent:	Wednesday, March 15, 2000 10:36 AM
		To:	Multiple recipients of list
		Subject:	Re: <chuckle> Ebay

		This is a real model not a prank, one of Eduards early ones.
Theirs also a
		mini datafile on it #2 in fact. Its did fly briefly I
believe and was an
		experimental aircraft developed by a Major Stephan Petroczy
he even is said
		to have discussed it with a certain Ferdinand Porsche. Any
it had 3 rotary
		engines pointing in a 3 pointed star arrangement, these
drove two props in
		the typical helicopter arrangement. If you want to know more
look on hannans
		runway site as they have a photo of the datafile.
		Not suggesting you buy it but at least you'll see what it
looked like.
		http://www.hrunway.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi look under
datafiles heading and
		you'll find the picture its MDF #2
		----- Original Message -----
		From: Harris, Mack <MackH@Health.State.OK.US>
		To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
		Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:16 AM
		Subject: RE: <chuckle> Ebay


		> Did anyone look up his other auctions and see the PKZ helo
from WWI?  I've
		> never seen this kit or heard of it, anyone have or build
it?  Also if you
		> look on the picture of that auction
		>
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=283200866 and look
		up
		> in the upper right corner under the Eduard logo it says
"Never fighting
		> ladies"?  Any ideas or is this just a prank?
		> Mack
		>
		> -----Original Message-----
		> From: Matthew Bittner [mailto:tbittners@sprintmail.com]
		> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:54 AM
		> To: Multiple recipients of list
		> Subject: <chuckle> Ebay
		>
		> Someone on ebay is trying to sell the 1/48th Merlin
Albatros
		> D.II for
		> $23.  <chuckle>
		>
		>
		> Matt Bittner
		> http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
		> http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook
		>
		>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:53:54 -0800
From: "Ray Boorman" <Ray_Boorman@telus.net>
To: <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Subject: Re: <chuckle> Ebay
Message-ID: <006901bf8e9f$0c7c9a20$9b1335d1@bconnected.net>

Harris,
    Its accurate this model and the DF 28 Floh were both brought out under
that title. They were both experimental so perhaps some advertising person
thought up the slogan.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Harris, Mack <MackH@Health.State.OK.US>
To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: <chuckle> Ebay


> I didn't think the kit was a prank or that Scott Van Aken was pulling a
> prank, but the wording under the logo, "Never fighting ladies".  I've got
a
> number of Eduard kits and I've never seen that on the box.
> Just curious.
> Mack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Boorman [mailto:Ray_Boorman@telus.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 10:36 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Re: <chuckle> Ebay
>
> This is a real model not a prank, one of Eduards early ones.
> Theirs also a
> mini datafile on it #2 in fact. Its did fly briefly I
> believe and was an
> experimental aircraft developed by a Major Stephan Petroczy
> he even is said
> to have discussed it with a certain Ferdinand Porsche. Any
> it had 3 rotary
> engines pointing in a 3 pointed star arrangement, these
> drove two props in
> the typical helicopter arrangement. If you want to know more
> look on hannans
> runway site as they have a photo of the datafile.
> Not suggesting you buy it but at least you'll see what it
> looked like.
> http://www.hrunway.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi look under
> datafiles heading and
> you'll find the picture its MDF #2
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Harris, Mack <MackH@Health.State.OK.US>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:16 AM
> Subject: RE: <chuckle> Ebay
>
>
> > Did anyone look up his other auctions and see the PKZ helo
> from WWI?  I've
> > never seen this kit or heard of it, anyone have or build
> it?  Also if you
> > look on the picture of that auction
> >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=283200866 and look
> up
> > in the upper right corner under the Eduard logo it says
> "Never fighting
> > ladies"?  Any ideas or is this just a prank?
> > Mack
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matthew Bittner [mailto:tbittners@sprintmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:54 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list
> > Subject: <chuckle> Ebay
> >
> > Someone on ebay is trying to sell the 1/48th Merlin
> Albatros
> > D.II for
> > $23.  <chuckle>
> >
> >
> > Matt Bittner
> > http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm
> > http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook
> >
> >


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:57:06 PST
From: "Jared Anthony Zichek" <jzichek@hotmail.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: British WWI Aircraft in the Polish Air Force 
Message-ID: <20000315165706.67635.qmail@hotmail.com>

Hi All,

De-lurking for a moment here to pose a question: what's the scoop on the 
above special recently published by Mushroom Model Magazine out of the UK? I 
saw it listed with Squadron Mail Order. Is it worth having? Does it have 
copious amounts of color profiles of Camels and such in Polish livery?

Just curious,

Jared Zichek
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:59:13 PST
From: "Michael Kendix" <mkendix@hotmail.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: RE: <chuckle> Ebay & Pflaz D.XII lozenge
Message-ID: <20000315165913.21638.qmail@hotmail.com>

>From: "Harris, Mack" <MackH@Health.State.OK.US>
>
>
>I didn't think the kit was a prank or that Scott Van Aken was >pulling a 
>prank, but the wording under the logo, "Never fighting >ladies".  I've got 
>a number of Eduard kits and I've never seen that >on the box.

Mack:

Yes, I think I recall seeing this on an odd looking 1/48th scale kit.

Scot Van Aken runs an outstanding web site called "Modeing Madness".  It has 
hundreds of build ups and reviews of all sorts of kits.  Go to:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2118/


Also, Otis said something about 4-colour lozenge on the Champlin Pfalz 
D.XII.  Is this correct since I thought Pfalz D.XII's were usually in 
5-colour?

Michael
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:07:52 EST
From: Otisgood@aol.com
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Re: RE: The Lozenge Conundrum
Message-ID: <f.1e80abc.26011d68@aol.com>

Ray,
The NASM book details the resoration process, particularly the work on the lozenge. They actually removed the original lozenge from the wings and stored it between sheets of paper. Of course, the fabric was in horrible condition (in shreds in some cases), but apparently in good enough condition to determine that it was 5 color and applied chordwise. I assume enough
of it was stitched together to determine the alternating application method. Great book. I highly recommend it not only fo rthe lozenge but also great color shots of the cockpit.  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:11:00 -0800
From: "Matt Bailey" <mgbailey@my-deja.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Spad XIII rigging
Message-ID: <FIKABFHPDJKDGCAA@my-deja.com>

I noticed in the Spad XIII photos of Douglas R. Jones and Pedro soares that there are two wires (instead of just one) that run from each end of the upper outer strut/wing joint, through the center strut, to the lower wing/fuselage joint.  However, in the Spad XIII datafile, it almost looks like these wires are either incased in some time of a sleeve or are just one flat wire.  Am I correct concerning the description in the Datafile?  If so, does anyone have any suggestions on how to model this sleeve/flat wire in 1/48 scale?

Sorry if my technical jargon/description is wrong.


Thanks,

Matt Bailey


--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:19:46 PST
From: "Jared Anthony Zichek" <jzichek@hotmail.com>
To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Subject: Voisin E.28
Message-ID: <20000315171946.14710.qmail@hotmail.com>

Hello all,

I've been entertaining the notion of scratchbuilding a big ol' Voisin E.28, 
the experimental French bomber described in the Flying Machines Press Book 
on WW I French Aircraft. Before heading down that long and difficult road, 
I'd like to pose a few questions regarding this ungainly behemoth:

a) From the small selection of photos, it appears to be doped silver 
overall, like the Nieuport fighters of the era. Is this a reasonable 
assumption?

b) Has anyone ever seen more photos of this machine, particularly detail 
photos? I doubt there are any cockpit shots available, so I would have to 
imagineer it. Any advice on what I should base the cockpit? Anyone have 
photos/drawings of French cockpits from other large French multiengine 
aircraft of the era? Would would have been the likely colors of the cockpit 
area?

c) Anyone ever come across a better three view than the one in the FMP book? 
It looks like a decent set of drawings, but perhaps there is a better set 
out there.

d) Anyone have/know where to find detail photos/drawings of the engines that 
powered the Voisin E.28? Unfortunately, I don't have the book in front of 
me, so I can't give their designation. Will look it up tonight and do so 
tomorrow.

Thanks,

Jared Zichek
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


------------------------------

End of WWI Digest 2196
**********************